Rape accused to be given anonymity

Teferi

Read it here

Now obviously this is Britian but hopefully it might reflect back here eventually as a defendants identity is not protected. I really like this idea because of the reputation that sticks with victims of falsely accused rape. If a person is proven to have raped then I think the identity protection should be stripped from them. I see that rape support groups are against this :rolleyes: not surprised really. Those groups really should have more on their websites about falsely accused rape victims.

the_syco

AH is talking about it: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055917388

Teferi

Ah I didn't see that but sure I think here is a good place for discussion also.

(and don't we have 3 threads about the UCC Prof in 3 different places *shrugs* depends on who's point of view your looking for)

CDfm

I think it would be a good thing as false or malicious accusations really harm people.Mud sticks. Its on google forever.

The biggest one in ireland was a former nun was it not ? Nora Wall???

merge the UCC threads -haha

Galvasean

Definately a good idea. I can't for the life of me see why anyone would be opposed to this. It only seems fair in relation to the 'innocent until proven guilty' philosophy.

LostinBlanch

Minette Walters has her say in the Sunday Times today.

Galvasean wrote: »

Definately a good idea. I can't for the life of me see why anyone would be opposed to this. It only seems fair in relation to the 'innocent until proven guilty' philosophy.

Well take a look at some of the misandrist bile coming from some in the comments below, especially the lady chatterbox comments. Talk about one sided, but then again, why let such hate (and that's what it is, no mistake) get in the way of such blinkered views?

Somehow I doubt that if it were women who were being discriminated in such a way she would be so gung ho! :rolleyes:

CDfm

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Minette Walters has her say in the Sunday Times today.

She talks lots of sence and is very objective as a person first and as a woman second. Thats not saying that all rape complainants lie -but some do.

Kevin Myers criticised womens leaders last year for remaining silent over the exoneration of a man following the adult recantation of her allegations made by her as a child.

It isn't a gender contest-it is about justice and the operation of our legal system.

Somehow I doubt that if it were women who were being discriminated in such a way she would be so gung ho! :rolleyes:

There has to be a balance even when wearing gender goggles -some of the feminist activists are neanderthal.

It may even help victims come forward. You have almost 0% prosectution of female perpetrators yet.

vibe666

i would defineily be FOR tougher sentances for rapists, but there are a lot of false accusations of rape and the law works on the premise of being innocent until proven guilty, not visa versa and a claim of that sort could and does ruin someone's reputation for life and is in effect a punishment in itself which shouldn't (imho) be handed out before a conviction.

LostinBlanch

I just saw this.

So in this case a woman accuses a man of rape despite a judges statement that her case "lacked credibility" the man then committed suicide "when facing that allegation".

So that same woman then sets out to frame another man for rape telling her friend "I'm going to have his body tonight" then says 'He is not going to get away with it, I've got evidence this time.'

All this before any "rape" occured!

I wonder will the woman in this case be brought before a court? If it was here I'd doubt it. The fact that it is in the UK might mean she does.

IMO she should be named, even if only to warn other men that may be unlucky enough to cross her path.

d'Oracle

LostinBlanch wrote: »

I wonder will the woman in this case be brought before a court? If it was here I'd doubt it. The fact that it is in the UK might mean she does.

You are basing this on?

Otis Driftwood

Proper order.A mate of mine was accused by a girl of assaulting her a number of years ago.Turned out that she made the whole thing up and ended up having charges brought against her for wasting police time (or something to that effect) but the poor guys name was blackened for years afterwards.

Unfortunatly with things like rape it is usually a case of guilty until proven innocent.

CDfm

Isnt that it though - a false accusation shouldnt be a gender issue and should upset women as much as men.

Zombrex

CDfm wrote: »

Isnt that it though - a false accusation shouldnt be a gender issue and should upset women as much as men.

The problem is the statistics of rape conviction being low have been used to promote the idea that most guilty men get off by various groups.

So if you get off it is not a case that you have been shown to be innocent, it becomes a case that you got off. That is the mind set most people are in with regard to rape, much more so than other crimes.

CDfm

Wicknight wrote: »

The problem is the statistics of rape conviction being low have been used to promote the idea that most guilty men get off by various groups.

So if you get off it is not a case that you have been shown to be innocent, it becomes a case that you got off. That is the mind set most people are in with regard to rape, much more so than other crimes.

It is a very difficult crime to prove and often devastating for the victim.
I have posted before of a schoolfriend who as an adult commited suicide as a result of abuse he recieved as a child. I personally have no doubt my friend was raped but proof was something else.

It is fairly awful that someone who is exonerated may suffer the stigma and statistics are used by people and groups with political agendas.Maybe the conviction rate is as good as it gets.

You cant set targets for conviction rates they have to be supported by evidence.I am for tougher sentencing for rape.

Teferi

d'Oracle wrote: »

You are basing this on?

You really do not hear of accusers of false rape being brought to any sort of justice. And this sort of thing would be big news.

CDfm wrote: »

Isnt that it though - a false accusation shouldnt be a gender issue and should upset women as much as men.

You'd think that but in reality it's different. Unfortunately.

CDfm wrote: »

I am for tougher sentencing for rape.

I am too. For sure. Really, anybody who rapes another person deserves a spot in the lowest place in hell. Equally, a person who falsely accuses someone of rape deserves as much of a sentence as somebody found guilty of rape.

Otis Driftwood

Teferi wrote: »

You really do not hear of accusers of false rape being brought to any sort of justice. And this sort of thing would be big news.

There was a recent enough case where a female garda accused a taxi driver of rape because,and I quote "he looked at me funny".Havnt heard what type of sentence she got though.

Unfortunatly with the horrible crime that is rape,it is very hard to prove and as CDfm pointed out,its consequences can be far reaching and devestating.

Teferi wrote: »

I am too. For sure. Really, anybody who rapes another person deserves a spot in the lowest place in hell. Equally, a person who falsely accuses someone of rape deserves as much of a sentence as somebody found guilty of rape.

My thoughts exactly.

CDfm

If you read the thread here and many similar threads it is plainly obvious that men condemn rape unresevededly.

Then when you read commentary like this below you could be forgiven for thinking we are not part of a conspiracy

http://www.amen.ie/Downloads/ireland_of_the_illusion_chapter18.pdf

The legal system we have is adversorial and the defence will test the prosecutions case. We have a free press that reports this.

I often think that those who promote the gender divide in criminal matters really open the door on this.

I hate quoting Kevin Myers but if you ignore the rhetoric here you will see that women as well as men lie.

We have a jury system where both men and women serve and that is there to safeguard the innocent but it is also manipulated by the guilty.

Kevin Myers: A new piece of feminist victimhood-folderol has entered the governing ideology of this state

By Kevin Myers

Thursday May 13 2010


I was writing yesterday about the striking case of the two Drimnagh girls involved in the incident which culminated in the death of two Polish male immigrants, but who have never been brought to trial. Equally striking has been the silence of the entire equality-feminist-multicultural industry on their amazing escape.
But this is par for the course. For Irish "multiculturalism" now embodies much of our strange politico-legal value-system, and this mysterious hybrid invariably exhibits a curious partiality when it comes to adjudicating on crimes in which the perpetrator is a woman and the victim is a man. Consider the occasion when a garda found two women beating and kicking a drunk on the ground in Newbridge, Co Kildare. The garda intervened, the drunk got up, and then clobbered one of his female assailants. He was then charged with being drunk in public, and with threatening and insulting behaviour.
Hearing details of the case, the judge said: "It seems to me that women are getting drunk and acting like alley-cats. Then they are fighting like savages. I can't say I blame the man for hitting her if she attacked him."
Cue, your usual feminist mumbo-jumbo:

Christine Ross of the National Women's Counci "His comments show that, in some cases, judges are in need of gender-awareness training, and training on issues involved in violence against women."Frances Fitzgerald[/COLOR][/URL] TD: The judge's comments raised "the important issue of the sensitivity of judges to violence against women". ]Jan O'Sullivan TD[/COLOR][/URL]. "It appears that the judge is defending physical violence against women."
Breda Raggett, national president of the Irish Countrywomen's Association She called on the judge to resign, and declared his comments were highly offensive.
[/LIST]
Not one woman in public life condemned the undisputed assault by the women on the defenceless man. But at least he survived, unlike Corporal Gary Cotter, shot dead in his bed by his wife Norma a couple of years later. The court accepted her plea of guilty to a charge of manslaughter, and so there was no trial, even though she had carefully loaded his shotgun twice before firing both barrels into his body as he slept. Yet the judge let this killer walk free from the court, in part because she had a family -- the youngest of whom had been conceived while she was awaiting trial.
Of course, from the feminist equality quangos in response to this extraordinary outcome -- silence. Those quangos were equally mum six years ago after Dolores O'Neill was found not guilty of murder, but guilty of manslaughter, though she had knifed her sleeping husband, Declan O'Neill, 21 times and hit him with a plumber's hammer 26 times.
Her justification was that he was a drunk who had often abused her in the past. But the court heard absolutely no evidence about the record that he had kept of her violence towards him: of his personal notes, of conversations with his siblings about being hit over the head with various objects, including bottles.
The court never heard how she had driven a car into him, requiring him to have treatment at Tallaght Hospital. What would they have made of such allegations when combined with the forensic evidence from the state pathologist that Declan O'Neill was a light drinker?
It is almost beyond parody that Dolores O'Neill, the woman who knifed and bludgeoned her sleeping husband to death, was an employee of the Equality Authority. Aptly, the latest publication from a fellow quango of the Equality Authority, the Institute of Public Administration, contains an essay on 'Intimate Partner Homicide'. It begins with the risible declaration: "This chapter argues news reportage of violent crime in Ireland perpetuates gender stereotypes, particularly in its portrayal of women and its construction of binaries of 'deserving' and 'undeserving' women."
What rubbish. Indeed, God help the newspaper that even made the disgusting suggestion that a murdered woman had ever deserved her fate. The essay then uses some incredibly meagre evidence from the media coverage of just ONE murder -- that of Jean Gilbert by her husband David Bourke after she announced she was leaving him -- to make its entire case. The essay opined: "Even articles that challenged (the husband's) account of his ordinary marriage failed to acknowledge, or indeed to entertain the possibility of, a context of (his) violence in the marriage."

So I just think that when the issue of anonymity is raised you are dealing with gender based political ideologies that are out of kilter with the real world.

In the real world some women lie (as do some men).

d'Oracle

The quoting of Kevin Meyers in any argument should be somehow punishable.

CDfm

d'Oracle wrote: »

The quoting of Kevin Meyers in any argument should be somehow punishable.

I know -but read the facts and cross out the b/s. It reads like two different legal systems based on gender.

He is controvercial but if you read the comments from the female role models quoted here -you would wonder if we are in the same country or even the same dimension.

So then when they speak on matters like anonimity for those accused rather than convicted of rape do they loose the right to be taken seriously.

d'Oracle

He has a habit of reading further into gender matters than is actually there.
Also he likes to launch the crusades on the flimsiest of premise.

I don't trust much that he writes.

d'Oracle

Teferi wrote: »

You really do not hear of accusers of false rape being brought to any sort of justice. And this sort of thing would be big news.

So baseless speculation then.
Just as I suspected.
"Ah sure Ireland is the worst for everything.
Crappy Ireland."

CDfm

d'Oracle wrote: »

He has a habit of reading further into gender matters than is actually there.
Also he likes to launch the crusades on the flimsiest of premise.

I don't trust much that he writes.

I agree with you but here he discusses a particular incident reported and 4 seperate reactions by prominent women. I have highlighted his reportage and the comments of the judge and the women in seperate colours.

Consider the occasion when a garda found two women beating and kicking a drunk on the ground in Newbridge, Co Kildare The garda intervened, the drunk got up, and then clobbered one of his female assailants. He was then charged with being drunk in public, and with threatening and insulting behaviour.
Hearing details of the case, the judge said: "It seems to me that women are getting drunk and acting like alley-cats. Then they are fighting like savages. I can't say I blame the man for hitting her if she attacked him."

Christine Ross of the National Women's Counci "His comments show that, in some cases, judges are in need of gender-awareness training, and training on issues involved in violence against women.[/COLOR][/URL] "Frances FitzgeraldTD: The judge's comments raised "the important issue of the sensitivity of judges to violence against women". ].Jan O'Sullivan TD. "It appears that the judge is defending physical violence against women"
Breda Raggett, national president of the Irish Countrywomen's Association She called on the judge to resign, and declared his comments were highly offensive

[/RIGHT]

Now I cant see anything perjorative in the judges reported comments and thats because there isn't.

The majority of women I know would agree with the judge and not with these people who commented and who are movers and shakers in Ireland in the Irish establishment.

So in that context what I am saying -even if you are sympathetic to some of what they say - with comments like these they loose moral authority and credibility.

For example, I would have put the Irish Countrywomans Association up there as a sensible organisation so now I have reason to doubt that.

And when Kevin Myers starts to sound reasonable warning bells start ringing.

shellyboo

Teferi wrote: »

I am too. For sure. Really, anybody who rapes another person deserves a spot in the lowest place in hell. Equally, a person who falsely accuses someone of rape deserves as much of a sentence as somebody found guilty of rape.

I was agreeing with you up to this point, CDfm. I know that a false accusation can be life-destroying, but in no way is it comparable to actually being raped. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Both crimes to be sure, but not of equal measure.

Even more so in this country, where the burden of proof (from society pressures if not in the court) is almost exclusively on the victim and not the accused - we saw a recent case where a community came out in support of a rapist when when he *was* convicted, ffs. That's the attitude we're battling against and that's why the law favours the victim. To suggest otherwise is very damaging. Let's get some perspective here.

A measure where the accused would be anonymous until convicted sounds like it could be a key strategy in terms of getting reported rapes UP and false accusations DOWN. I can see a lot more women being comfortable with coming forward knowing that the whole thing was done in confidence.

The Corinthian

shellyboo wrote: »

I was agreeing with you up to this point, CDfm. I know that a false accusation can be life-destroying, but in no way is it comparable to actually being raped. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Both crimes to be sure, but not of equal measure.

Who gets to decide the measure though? And by what meter?

CDfm

shellyboo wrote: »

I was agreeing with you up to this point, CDfm. I know that a false accusation can be life-destroying, but in no way is it comparable to actually being raped. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Both crimes to be sure, but not of equal measure.

That quote wasn't mine btw.

I can't understand how a rape victim feels because I havent been one but I do imagine it is fairly bleak and the level of fear must be enormous to make someone comply.

Similarly, being accused of rape especially if remanded in custody awaiting trial must be terrifying if the allegations are false or if convicted later exonerated.

I don't know how it should be handled.

EDIT - I was and am truly shocked by the case you mentioned. Good for you for pointing it out.

vibe666

shellyboo wrote: »

I was agreeing with you up to this point, CDfm. I know that a false accusation can be life-destroying, but in no way is it comparable to actually being raped. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Both crimes to be sure, but not of equal measure.

not disagreeing with you there at all as i know more than the majority of men how devastating rape can be for a woman and her family (from personal experience), but every woman who falsely accuses a man of rape reduces the credibility of every actual rape victim that comes after her and increases the chances of an actual rapist getting away with it and makes it that little bit harder for them to be brought to justice.

it's far from the same crime, but it's still a serious crime and one that hurts all women and any woman that can do that deserves to be properly punished. unfortunately, as with everything else it's not that simple.

there's plenty of fake accusations that have more evidence than real ones, so who's to say what is true and what isn't. it's all just a horrible mess and the only way out of it is for all the false accusers to see the damage they are doing to themselves and all women and stop doing it, but that's never going to happen because these kinds of people think of nobody but themselves anyway.

CDfm

Thats an interesting point you make vibe666 and I would see shellyboo and me as essentially being on the same side and I do believe that rape is an awful crime.

False accusations are not about "rapes" as they never happened so its in all our interests to weed them out.

You also have sex with regrets and drunk sex where people say wtf was I thinking. Its all too easy for two otherwise consensual adults to get caught up in some modern day morality play.(Thats not excusing rapists or excusing rape in any way).

So while rape is a very much underreported crime this is not about the underreporting issue. This is about fabricated or overreported cases.

I think that protecting the identity of the accused is a good thing and will encourage people to come forward as well as helping those falsely accused.

One thing that is different about this argument is that a lot of ordinary women and publications aimed at women are discussing this issue openly and outside the confines of "feminism" but on a human level.

Zombrex

d'Oracle wrote: »

The quoting of Kevin Meyers in any argument should be somehow punishable.

+1

Hearing Meyers agrees with me always causes me to deeply question what I believe :pac:

CDfm

Wicknight wrote: »

+1

Hearing Meyers agrees with me always causes me to deeply question what I believe :pac:

+ 1

I feel your pain

Maguined

shellyboo wrote: »

Even more so in this country, where the burden of proof (from society pressures if not in the court) is almost exclusively on the victim and not the accused - we saw a recent case where a community came out in support of a rapist when when he *was* convicted, ffs. That's the attitude we're battling against and that's why the law favours the victim. To suggest otherwise is very damaging. Let's get some perspective here.

I am not sure I am reading this right but are you complaining about the fact the law is "innocent until proven guilty" ?

While I agree it was absolutely disgusting how so many people in that town supported the convicted rapist I think nearly every single other person in the country was as disgusted and appalled by this behaviour, every single person I talked to about it shared my disgust anyway. So I think most people in society have the right attitude to begin with, they hate rapists and want to see harsher sentences to them but there will always be a small few of those personally involved in the case that will let their personal relationship with the victim cloud their reason on the facts.

Zombrex

I'm really struggling to see the down side to this, other than it singling out rape for special treatment.

Not asking who agrees or not but can someone explain the actual logic of those who are dead set against this idea?

Galvasean

Wicknight wrote: »

I'm really struggling to see the down side to this, other than it singling out rape for special treatment.

Not asking who agrees or not but can someone explain the actual logic of those who are dead set against this idea?

Apparently it will stop women who have been raped coming forward and perpetuates the myth that most people who accuse someone of raping them are making it up. Load of BS TBH. Typical of the over the top misandry that tries to pass itself off as feminism these days.

Zombrex

Galvasean wrote: »

Apparently it will stop women who have been raped coming forward and perpetuates the myth that most people who accuse someone of raping them are making it up. Load of BS TBH. Typical of the over the top misandry that tries to pass itself off as feminism these days.

I would have thought it would help that since the woman doesn't have to fear that it will get out through people working out who the man was last with.

I really can't see the downside to this and am quite disappointed by the backlash.

CDfm

Wicknight wrote: »

I would have thought it would help that since the woman doesn't have to fear that it will get out through people working out who the man was last with.

I really can't see the downside to this and am quite disappointed by the backlash.

I imagine that a part but not all of it is due to what Esther Rantzen calls gender blindness.

Like no-one could have predicted the level of clerical sex abuse, or by teachers,fathers and sports coaches in Ireland and you have a stereotype abuser image as a male.

So I imagine part of it by Womens Groups is to preserve the status quo.Its uncharted territory and there is fear of the unknown.

It shouldn't diminish women if another woman is an abuser.In the UK Childline is reporting the highest increase of calls by boys being abused by their mums. Scary and provocative stuff.

3.3.2 Female perpetrators

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]

In 2008/09, 2,142 children who called about sexual abuse reported that their perpetrators were females, accounting for 17 per cent of the calls.
Among this group, 1,311 children (11 per cent) cited their mother as the perpetrator, making mothers the main female perpetrators. Mothers were the perpetrators for 4 per cent of girls and 20 per cent of boys.
In 2004/05, 923 children counselled by ChildLine named female abusers and in 2008/09 2,142 children named female abusers. This is an increase of 132 per cent.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]

"My mum tried to rape me last night. I am upset. My mum came in from the pub drunk, asked me to take my clothes off and tried to put a rubber thing inside me. My mum is drinking a lot since Dad had broken up with her. Mum is in the pub now. I have not talked to her since last night." (Boy, aged 11)

"I am physically and sexually abused at home by Mum. It is been happening since I was two years old. I feel sad." (Girl, aged 12)

[/FONT][/FONT]

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/publications/casenotes/clcasenotessexualabuse2_wdf69493.pdf[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]

[/FONT][/FONT]

LostinBlanch

Well it looks like the backlash is working if what is written in the sidebar to this article is true.

Plans to grant anonymity to defendants in rape trials were thown in to chaos earlier this week after Ken Clarke indicated that MPs will be given a free vote on the issue.

The Justice Secretary admitted there was no 'consensus' among any of the main parties - despite it being included as a pledge in the coalition's first programme for government.

David Cameron has already signalled that the original plans will be dramatically scaled back following an outcry from Labour MPs and feminist campaign groups.

They have pointed to the case of London taxi driver John Worboys, saying more than 80 victims came forward after he was charged.

Labour MP Emma Reynolds said: 'Anonymity for rape defendants would have prevented this from happening.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287534/Innocent-Warren-Blackwell-served-3-years-false-rape-claim-fantasist.html#ixzz0rDAd6Aw5

CDfm

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Well it looks like the backlash is working if what is written in the sidebar to this article is true.

Your sidebar refers

Innocent man jailed for 3 years over false rape claim - despite police knowing 'victim' was a fantasist
By REBECCA CAMBER
Last updated at 9:25 AM on 18th June 2010
Comments (150)
Add to My Stories

A man jailed when a woman falsely cried rape told of his fury yesterday after learning that police knew the woman was 'unreliable'.
Warren Blackwell, 40, spent three years in jail as a convicted sex attacker until his 'victim' was unmasked as a fantasist who had accused other blameless men.
The woman - named under Parliamentary privilege as Shannon Taylor - said he indecently assaulted her outside a social club in the early hours of January 1, 1999, after a New Year's Eve party.
A report revealed yesterday that officers were told Taylor was 'unreliable', ' unstable' and craved attention - but they failed to disclose it at his trial.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287534/Innocent-Warren-Blackwell-served-3-years-false-rape-claim-fantasist.html#ixzz0rDPzASLb

Didn't the same happen here with Nora Walls conviction and didnt her co-exonerated die before he was compensated. :mad:

In Nora Walls case, her accuser made up stories and tried to justify them afterwards as motivated by lesser accusations. The accusers should have been prosecuted but never were.

TitoPuente

Nice to see the system protecting men for a change. Any 'feminist' groups who would oppose this legislation have shown their true colours.

CDfm

TitoPuente wrote: »

Nice to see the system protecting men for a change. Any 'feminist' groups who would oppose this legislation have shown their true colours.

Anyone found not guilty has a huge hurdle to climb in life without having the benefit of anonymity almost unlike almost any other crime.

The whole there never being smoke without fire and the stigma attached to an accusation means that even if someone is found not guilty they are never fully exonerated.

Anyone who opposes it wants to punish the innocent with the guilty and its not about justice anymore but about gender.

TitoPuente

CDfm wrote: »

Anyone found not guilty has a huge hurdle to climb in life without having the benefit of anonymity almost unlike almost any other crime.

The whole there never being smoke without fire and the stigma attached to an accusation means that even if someone is found not guilty they are never fully exonerated.

Anyone who opposes it wants to punish the innocent with the guilty and its not about justice anymore but about gender.

Yeah. I couldn't agree more.

Galvasean

CDfm wrote: »

The whole there never being smoke without fire and the stigma attached to an accusation means that even if someone is found not guilty they are never fully exonerated.

Same goes for pretty much any crime IMO. Even when found innocent people who are accused are labelled criminals by and large. As has been said before on this thread 'mud sticks'.

TitoPuente

Galvasean wrote: »

Same goes for pretty much any crime IMO. Even when found innocent people who are accused are labelled criminals by and large. As has been said before on this thread 'mud sticks'.

This is true but rape is such a difficult crime to prove anyway that the cloud of suspicion will always be that much heavier for a rape accused found innocent.

For example, if you're accused of murder and your council proves that you are innocent without anything shady or untoward in the trial, most people will assume you are innocent. Particularly if it was proved that you weren't even at the scene of the crime.

With rape, you'll always be looked on with suspicion unless you can emphatically prove that you were never even alone in a room with your accuser. If, say, you had completely consentual sex with a woman and she woke up with a bit of a hangover, regretting it and resenting you and she ends up deciding to accuse you of raping her rather than just living with her bad decision. Well, it's her word against yours. Even if you're found innocent, your life will still be a nightmare.

I know people on this thread disagree but I have to say, in my opinion accusing someone of rape is up there with the crime of rape itself in terms of sheer malice and evil. Just my opinion.

Galvasean

TitoPuente wrote: »

I know people on this thread disagree but I have to say, in my opinion accusing someone of rape is up there with the crime of rape itself in terms of sheer malice and evil. Just my opinion.

I'd be inclined to agree. Anyone who wrongly accuses someone of raping them is trying to ruin that persons life - pure and simple. There is no justification for it.

CDfm

Galvasean wrote: »

Same goes for pretty much any crime IMO. Even when found innocent people who are accused are labelled criminals by and large. As has been said before on this thread 'mud sticks'.

But with rape its a bit different because of its very nature and its seriousness.After murder its up there.

And yes, mud sticks, if a man is exonerrated in a murder case in most cases he will be homeless and jobless.

So if a womans reputation/identity gets protected (and rightly so) during a case then so too should the accused.

In the case of rape it is very similar. So there should be parity in protecting the reputations of both the accused and accuser. I dont know of any prosecutions for false allegations in Ireland or support systems etc for those cleared.

TitoPuente

The public has nothing to gain from finding out the identities of rape accused men unelss they're found guilty. Other than to take it upon themselves to start a witchhunt or smear campaign.

I would strongly welcome this legislation if it was brought into Ireland. Contrary to the opinion of these men-hating 'feminist' groups - I suspect that it would actually increase the number of genuine rape claims and reduce the number of false accusations. But I'm sure these women's groups would hate to lose the right to publicly destroy a man without having to prove that he has done anything wrong. :rolleyes:

CDfm

TitoPuente wrote: »

I would strongly welcome this legislation if it was brought into Ireland. Contrary to the opinion of these men-hating 'feminist' groups - I suspect that it would actually increase the number of genuine rape claims and reduce the number of false accusations. But I'm sure these women's groups would hate to lose the right to publicly destroy a man without having to prove that he has done anything wrong. :rolleyes:

Its shocking that groups that spew such venom get public funding.

If an investment company gave statistics about investment performance they are regulated, if a phone company use comparisons they have rules to follow, if Tescos compare their prices to Dunnes it needs to have factual information.

These groups loose sight of helping victims and get bogged down in "gender wars" maybe the power needs to be taken out of their hands.

Why cant the state or the HSE provide these services??

Baggly

Personally it scares the crap out of me that someone could irreversibly destroy my reputation and standing with friends, family and pretty much everyone who may know me with little proof to back it up.

Rape is horrendous; but so is being falsely accused.

I think its about time we considered the damage associated with social shunning (which can be traced back to false accusations) as well as the damage done by rape. Thankfully no-one here seems to think they are mutually exclusive. Sadly this is not universally felt, i have found.

Jumpy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_2M3LrfFAw

mikemac

"Mud sticks" "No smoke without fire"
Even if the accused is found not guilty some people will still believe something was there.

My own anecdote.
Our primary school teacher managed to get himself in trouble. Comments were made then he was entering the girls changing rooms while they changed for PE.
He was never popular to begin with but there was hysteria from some over this.
The girl who lodged the complaint was the daughter of the chairman on the board of management, locals and parish priest are on this committee.

Principal got suspended, investigation launched.
In the end it turned out the chairman and the principal has some ongoing feud and the child lodged a complaint for something was never happened.

He had to leave the parish, got reinstated by the Department but his career will never be the same.

This wasn't rape but it was a serious complaint and a professional almost lost his permanent job over it.
Anyone else who ends up in a court of law for a more serious charge may never recover even if they are innocent

CDfm

@feelingstressed That is very similar to the Michael Hannon case where he was exonnerated when his "child accuser" recanted as an adult. A child saying what she thinks adults want to hear.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/the-feminist-sirens-remained-quiet-for-the-victim-is-a-man-1728418.html

I have often posted how brave the young woman was coming forward versus the wishy washy behavior of the people around her and the authorities it was amazing Michael Hannon ever was exonerated.