"Thug who attacked dying Pole was on bail" (75 previous convictions)

sickofwaiting

caseyann wrote: »

They were in their house???
They then left the house to confront said thugs whilst coming from a country that is very well known for thuggery and alot of violence.

Poland is not well known for thuggery and alot of violence, I don't know where you got that from. It has no better or worse reputation than any other western country. Although myself, and many others here in Ireland believe that Ireland is afflicted by thuggery and senseless violence these days. Foreigner's don't see Ireland that way but the people who've lived here all their lives know how bad it is these days.

They knew they were going to end up in some form of altercation.
How could they possibly not?
If you walk out the front door to confront thugs outside your house what is it to do shake hands and ask them politely to leave?

One Polish guy went out, he was within his rights to tell this pack of scumbags to **** OFF. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that. Of course he would still be alive today if he didn't but there was nothing legally/morally or ethically wrong with telling a bunch of complete and utter scumbags who had just beat the crap out of him ten minutes earlier to **** off.

In the meantime, Mr Kalite had told his flatmates what had happened. They wanted him to stay indoors but he walked outside shortly before 6.45pm as the five teenagers came running towards the house.
Kamila Szeremata said she was standing beside Mr Kalite as David Curran swung at her with the screw driver, that she ducked and he stabbed Mr Kalite. Seán Keogh told gardai that he kicked Mr Kalite in his face as he fell. Within seconds Curran stabbed Marius Szwajkos as he moved towards his fallen friend.

So the brave man Curran originally was trying to put the screwdriver in a woman. Then it ended up in Mr Kalite and his friend came to help and got stabbed too. There was no mention anywhere in any of the reports of the Polish guys attacking the scumbags when they came to the house. Curran literally just came up and stabbed Kalite. These Polish guys did absolutely nothing wrong.

I never said when they followed them home they didn't intend on causing harm,that's obvious they although did it in a drunken drugged state.Not an excuse but that's how it happened so their sense everything alot less inclined to be thinking correctly.

A large % of crimes are committed while people are high on drink or drugs. Does that mean we should start going easy on all these murderers/rapists because they were not 'thinking correctly' due to drink/drugs when they committed their crimes?

They i do not think intended on stabbing and murdering two people.

Well obviously the jury disagreed with you (as does the judge) as they found he had intended on stabbing and murdering two people.

But also added if those guys had not left the house and the system was working none of it would have happened.

Yes it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't left the house but that does not mean they have any blame in what happened. How hard is that to understand? If I leave my wallet down on a bar counter and someone robs it I am not to blame ethically, morally or legally for it being stolen. It was a stupid thing to do alright but the only person who acted immorally was the person who robbed it. Get it now??

Liam Byrne

caseyann wrote: »

They i do not think intended on stabbing and murdering two people.

More thinking and guesswork, and yet again in favour of the murdering thug.

caseyann wrote: »

But also added if those guys had not left the house and the system was working none of it would have happened.

And - as I said earlier - if a girl didn't leave the bar with a stranger that she had just met, she wouldn't get raped.

But you didn't accept that parallel.

AlekSmart

But also added if those guys had not left the house and the system was working none of it would have happened.

I`m not afraid to admit that these killings have really shaken me.

The actual mechanics of plunging a screwdriver through a human skull, withdrawing it,moving your eyes to find another target then plunging it through that persons temple whilst around you the other members of your pack whoop with exhileration is the stuff of pure unrestrained evil.

Not to put too fine a point on it I can only think of the term "Work of the Devil" to describe the actions of these young men because,unlike caseyann,I cannot suspend my own faculties by the amount required to apportion ANY blame to those slaughtered men.

What is deeply troubling and saddening to me is that caseyann comes across as normal individual possessed of all the senses necessary to form an opinion and to seek a balanced view of the entire situation.

And yet in that attitude I see the seed of what allowed this gang of partially socialized feral youths to rise to be the dominant force in "their" area.

How many times before had the wee girl called upon this erstwhile young man to come to her assistance and beat the living daylights out of some other hapless individual whose crime may only have been to "look" different ?

How often,in the past,had residents of these streets,pulled their curtains,turned up the volume on the telly in order to drown out the screams of another victim ?

Tonight,how many of this particular youthful crew can be found loitering around the same locations or lying in a stupfied daze beside one of the canal locks as they scan the area for somebody to challenge and attack ?

How many parents,as Nijmigen does,will go to meet and escort their child from the Bus/Luas/Train simply because they FEAR for that childs safety ?

Yes caseyann,we are all doing as you recommend,lying low,keeping quiet,averting our gaze and by doing so we hand over another little piece of our freedom to a section of society which has absolutely no right to it,and who you can rest assured will constantly return until you have no more to give them....at this point you really are on-your-own.

Sadly,caseyann`s Ireland is already a well established fact.

All those gated-communities did not spring up simply to keep the wrought-iron industry in work,they are an attempt to form a secure perimiter to keep their owners safe from the fate which befell Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos.

At some point however the responses recommended by caseyann,will fail to satisfy our savage brethern and they will demand their entitlement in fleash and blood,and when caseyann,that mob is baying at your door for your blood or that of a family member what exactly will you do ?,who will you turn to for assistance?

This thread has been a really challenging and emotionally draining journey for me.

I cannot pull one positive aspect out of the entire thing.

I cannot think of any more to say that can express the extent of sheer revulsion I personally feel about the perpretrators,their followers and those who shared their common-purpose that awful night.

But one message needs to be very forcefully sent out from this forum,if needs be it should be moderated upon,as to be ambiguous about it merely places us all in that awful "Common Purpose".

That message is that Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos were totally innocent men who were slaughtered by our own kind.

There can be no equivication whatever about this,just as the Jury found there to be No mitigating factors when returning their verdict of Guilty of Murder.....

The Murdered Men Cannot Defend their good character so we all must attempt to defend it on their behalf.

THEY WERE NOT TO BLAME.

R.I.P

Pittens

They were in their house???
They then left the house to confront said thugs whilst coming from a country that is very well known for thuggery and alot of violence.

The second sentence is both a non-sequitor and racist lie.

The violent people or ethnic group here was not the Polish immigrants ( who by the way came from worse social conditions than the scum who attacked them) but the violent Irish lumpen proletariat - who we have tolerated for far too long hence the title of this thread. 75 convictions.

And the Polish guys had every right to confront people who marched up to their house. Its a pity they didnt win.

Your logic is disturbing, a pseudo-left wing morality for Ireland's massively over-indulged lumpens, and a sickening racial hatred for the Poles.

JimiTime

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not afraid to admit that these killings have really shaken me.

The actual mechanics of plunging a screwdriver through a human skull, withdrawing it,moving your eyes to find another target then plunging it through that persons temple whilst around you the other members of your pack whoop with exhileration is the stuff of pure unrestrained evil.

Not to put too fine a point on it I can only think of the term "Work of the Devil" to describe the actions of these young men because,unlike caseyann,I cannot suspend my own faculties by the amount required to apportion ANY blame to those slaughtered men.

What is deeply troubling and saddening to me is that caseyann comes across as normal individual possessed of all the senses necessary to form an opinion and to seek a balanced view of the entire situation.

And yet in that attitude I see the seed of what allowed this gang of partially socialized feral youths to rise to be the dominant force in "their" area.

How many times before had the wee girl called upon this erstwhile young man to come to her assistance and beat the living daylights out of some other hapless individual whose crime may only have been to "look" different ?

How often,in the past,had residents of these streets,pulled their curtains,turned up the volume on the telly in order to drown out the screams of another victim ?

Tonight,how many of this particular youthful crew can be found loitering around the same locations or lying in a stupfied daze beside one of the canal locks as they scan the area for somebody to challenge and attack ?

How many parents,as Nijmigen does,will go to meet and escort their child from the Bus/Luas/Train simply because they FEAR for that childs safety ?

Yes caseyann,we are all doing as you recommend,lying low,keeping quiet,averting our gaze and by doing so we hand over another little piece of our freedom to a section of society which has absolutely no right to it,and who you can rest assured will constantly return until you have no more to give them....at this point you really are on-your-own.

Sadly,caseyann`s Ireland is already a well established fact.

All those gated-communities did not spring up simply to keep the wrought-iron industry in work,they are an attempt to form a secure perimiter to keep their owners safe from the fate which befell Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos.

At some point however the responses recommended by caseyann,will fail to satisfy our savage brethern and they will demand their entitlement in fleash and blood,and when caseyann,that mob is baying at your door for your blood or that of a family member what exactly will you do ?,who will you turn to for assistance?

This thread has been a really challenging and emotionally draining journey for me.

I cannot pull one positive aspect out of the entire thing.

I cannot think of any more to say that can express the extent of sheer revulsion I personally feel about the perpretrators,their followers and those who shared their common-purpose that awful night.

But one message needs to be very forcefully sent out from this forum,if needs be it should be moderated upon,as to be ambiguous about it merely places us all in that awful "Common Purpose".

That message is that Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos were totally innocent men who were slaughtered by our own kind.

There can be no equivication whatever about this,just as the Jury found there to be No mitigating factors when returning their verdict of Guilty of Murder.....

The Murdered Men Cannot Defend their good character so we all must attempt to defend it on their behalf.

THEY WERE NOT TO BLAME.

R.I.P

A quite excellent post!

Recently a drug dealer was busted in a pub I know. Alledgedly caught dealing on the premises, police were called and he was busted. Week later, the place is firebombed.

Polish folk on my road had their windows smashed in for telling a gang of yobs to keep the noise down. They'll soon learn to turn the tellies up and buy earplugs:(:mad:
Anyone who 'Dares' keep their wheelie bins at the front of their house have them go walkies to be burnt by yobs. Of course, 'Why do they keep their bins out front, the stupid eejits' is something that I've heard said.
Nephews friend (17 yo) had his front teeth knocked out with a bottle by folk who were 'known to police'.

Walking to work, I see drugs being openly sold at Tara Street station in Dublin (a regular sight). Same day I see 2 Gardaí hassling a busker on Grafton st.

We have the case in England of a boy being tried for murder, after two yobs broke into his mums house and one came at him with a knife. He ends up getting knife and stabbing yob in the neck.

How the justice system deals with crime and criminals HAS to change. I for one am sick to death of these emasculated times!

SLUSK

caseyann wrote: »

Wreck-less endangerment can be for the passengers in the car with the driver!

There is no mention of previous assaults on anyone in his convictions

Did i say anywhere what he did was right?

I simply said they system is crock of **** that this guy and the other guy would never have got to that amount of convictions nor would have been out on street to cause any harm or steel anything,if the system did their job!
And i also pointed out if they had not gone back out of their house and instead rang the Garda none of that would have ever happened also.
If i had of walked out my front door when two guys who had followed me home and been in a verbal or any altercation with them already,i would have known there was no way there wasn't going to be some kind of fight.

Tonight I watched a frightening clip from a country in the middle east where they cut of both hands of a convicted thief. Now if the Irish penal system had enough sense to cut of this scumbag's hands this Polish guy might still be alive today.

FastFuse

I've just read through this entire thread and have been both heartened by some posters' focus on reminding us that it is the loss of life and the cheapening of our liberties that should be remembered most, and quite frankly disgusted at caseyann's attempts to pardon the offenders while simultaneously sullying the dead and the nation of Poland. That one is baffling.

Anyway for my tuppence, I am from the area (not living there now) and not two minutes trot from where these calous murders took place is where I grew up. There were some facilites, but none I cared to partake in. Yet I never vandalised a car, am not guilty of wreckless endangerment and have never caused anyone harm with an everyday house-tool. Not that the lack of lack of facilities argument holds up, but just to throw it in as a means of dismissing it as an excuse. I'm no angel either, but I've not a single conviction to speak of, not even close.

In my last couple of years living there, and on visits back to my folks' (who have also moved) there was an increasingly evident air of thuggery around. Nothing I was ever too afraid of (the divil you know) but it was most definitely on the increase. Examples are kids not moving out of the way of the car, mini motorbike races up the fields. I'm not even sure when it happened but at some point the number of arsehole thugs (and understudies to those) in the area increased to outnumber the ordinary folk walking around. Whether or not that was because ordinary folk ventured out less I don't know.

But it became a chore to visit my parents and I was thrilled when they moved. When news of these murders reached me it saddened me, for the victims and their families of course, but also for the decent people in the area. How glad they must be that this thug and his filthbag accomplice are behind bars.

I agree with AlekSmart in that what I find most troubling is the depth of evil it takes to carry out these actions. No amount of parenting, local workshops, summer projects, rehabilition or Fas courses can scrub those intentions away. Harder still to rub them from my mind. I hope these scumbags have grown a conscience and I hope the reality of they crimes they've committed dawns on them and that they struggle with it for the remainder of their days, of which I hope they don't have many.