"Thug who attacked dying Pole was on bail" (75 previous convictions)

SLUSK

The probability for repent offenses if you execute a prisoner is very low. However not many people seem to think executions are a good idea.

I personally believe we should both bring back the death penalty and corporal punishment. Justice must be done.

Singapore is one of the safest places in the world because they have executions and corporal punishment

AlekSmart

I`m quoting the following from caseyann`s posts as I am having such difficulty coming to terms with whatever thinking may be behind them.....

But also the interaction of the polish for not avoiding the confrontation and ringing the garda while staying inside their house.

Yeah because in Poland they never let the thugs back out on the street?
They used the logic of we can beat their asses and they shouldn't have they should have used Their minds not their aggression.
Their lack of thinking led them to their deaths.

No it is obvious why else would they have bothered to go out there in first place.It was not to calm it down and have a chat.
They did not think of their safety,they thought of only fighting.

They should not have approached them.They should have not stood up to them.They should have took their own safety into account.Rang the Garda not acted like blokes.
Which led to their own deaths.

I didn't blame them,but stupid thing to do confronting people who are aggro.Meaning they went out there looking for aggro also.unfortunately their actions let to their deaths.

Complete opposites here.They knew the guilty parties were out for a fight.The polish lads were been typical polish lads thinking they were going to kick their asses.And out of their pure lack of thinking, it ended very badly.

There is to me something chillingly grotesque about the tone and content of the posts.

As a matter of Interest caseyann,are you from the area where the executions took place ?

Did you know these particular Polish Men in any way,as in have you an inclination as to their personalities ?

What is a "Typical Polish lad" like as a person ?

Perhaps it`s time to draw a veil over this particular crime,as it now seems there may be a campaign afoot to airbrush it from the collective memory.

It`s worth considering that as far as the State is concerned the job is done and dusted.
Justice has been served and those who were prosecuted have been punished appropriately.

It`s also worth considering that at least one of the guilty parties will be a free-man within the next 3 years.

There remain serious issues surrounding the decisions of the DPP and the level of disagreement between his office and the investigating Gardai in respect of the two female`s who were central to the entire scenario.

However,time will move on and lives will be lived,memories will fade and people will continue to read into it what they will.

When she(?) moves away from the issue of the behaviour of the Polish men,caseyann touches on some rather more basic human nature stuff about the inate goodness within us all etc.

Sadly the behaviour of the youthful pack in the lead-up to the executions is now quite readily recognisable to any resident of an Irish,village,town or city.

Both of the convicted men represent a type of humanity that is now replicated all over our land.

A type of individual always ready with the verbal lash,the sneaky thump,or eventually,the thrust of the blade or the pull of a trigger.

That comfort with violence is what sets them apart from their peers and in modern Ireland,the Cullen and the Keogh mentality is predominant within the disadvantaged youth.

Yes caseyann may be correct when she bemoans the lack of facilities,understanding and resources for these youthful types.

However,I fear that is only a small part of the equation,but the part which is easiest to espouse and one which will have many wise heads nodding sagely in response.

However,these executions,may perhaps indicate a deeper malaise within the community at large...what that may be is open to question,but there is something very badly wrong here.

It`s all too easy to point to lack of facilities for our young people,but one needs to realize that one of Dublins largest and best run Community Youth Centre`s lies only metres from where this youthful pack hunted down and executed Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos.

I remain puzzled and not a little saddened at caseyann`s line of thinking...I hope that i`m reading it wrong

Liam Byrne

Great (if saddening) post by Alex.

I remember at one stage wondering what was going wrong.

Growing up, we had feck-all - facilities-wise or, to a large extent, money-wise.

The only thing we had going for us was a damn good mum and dad.

Now, forgive me for stating the obvious, but the state can't provide those, and can't compensate for them by providing "facilities".

I remember sitting in the pub chatting about some crime that had happened, and the agreement was that we weren't out mugging old ladies.....not because of deterrents or the law, but because we just damn-well wouldn't do it. Even if there were no law against it, or associated punishment, we damn well wouldn't do it.

I'm sorry, but lack of facilities, etc, does not cause anyone to commit crimes; not serious ones, anyway.

They choose to do so.

Anyone who commits 75 crimes (actually : correction : has been convicted of 75 crimes, and therefore has probably done many more) should not be on the streets imposing their will on law-abiding citizens.

And anyone that commits anything as sickening as this one deserves to be locked up for life; or even, as someone suggested, re-introducing capital punishment.

The system did fail, but only - as I said earlier - it failed the victim and the public, badly; people who should be able to walk the streets or stand up for themselves without worrying whether they're confronting a psychopathic killer who has a well-known track record.

Does anyone know why this murderer was given bail so many times ?

I know someone mentioned earlier that previous crimes are viewed as irrelevant, but surely this doesn't / shouldn't apply as soon as someone hits, say, 10 convictions ?

Surely that would indicate that yes, if they were let out / given a chance there was a damn good chance that they would commit another crime ?

Who didn't someone call stop ?

Because - the murderer's choice and final responsibility aside - whoever didn't shout stop also contributed to this man's death.

Nijmegen

Alex - I only wish I could thank your post twice.

Laminations

Caseyann are you saying that because of their upbringing (victim card) that Keogh and Cullen couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong?

I believe strongly in social responsibility, providing opportunities for people to better themselves, because people can't simply choose rich or poor, it's about the circumstance they find themselves in. However I believe everyone of sound mind can choose between good and bad and know the difference between right and wrong, maybe not in the level of admitting you got too much change back but definitely on the level of stabbing vs. not stabbing someone through the head with a screwdriver. Even knowing before this that it us wrong to carry a screwdriver 'casually'. So either they knew this and are completely to blame or they didn't and are not of sound mind. The latter seems to be what you are suggesting and makes them far more dangerous, acting like animals unconscious of the damage they are causing, either way none of this is the Polish mens fault

irishh_bob

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m quoting the following from caseyann`s posts as I am having such difficulty coming to terms with whatever thinking may be behind them.....













There is to me something chillingly grotesque about the tone and content of the posts.

As a matter of Interest caseyann,are you from the area where the executions took place ?

Did you know these particular Polish Men in any way,as in have you an inclination as to their personalities ?

What is a "Typical Polish lad" like as a person ?

Perhaps it`s time to draw a veil over this particular crime,as it now seems there may be a campaign afoot to airbrush it from the collective memory.

It`s worth considering that as far as the State is concerned the job is done and dusted.
Justice has been served and those who were prosecuted have been punished appropriately.

It`s also worth considering that at least one of the guilty parties will be a free-man within the next 3 years.

There remain serious issues surrounding the decisions of the DPP and the level of disagreement between his office and the investigating Gardai in respect of the two female`s who were central to the entire scenario.

However,time will move on and lives will be lived,memories will fade and people will continue to read into it what they will.

When she(?) moves away from the issue of the behaviour of the Polish men,caseyann touches on some rather more basic human nature stuff about the inate goodness within us all etc.

Sadly the behaviour of the youthful pack in the lead-up to the executions is now quite readily recognisable to any resident of an Irish,village,town or city.

Both of the convicted men represent a type of humanity that is now replicated all over our land.

A type of individual always ready with the verbal lash,the sneaky thump,or eventually,the thrust of the blade or the pull of a trigger.

That comfort with violence is what sets them apart from their peers and in modern Ireland,the Cullen and the Keogh mentality is predominant within the disadvantaged youth.

Yes caseyann may be correct when she bemoans the lack of facilities,understanding and resources for these youthful types.

However,I fear that is only a small part of the equation,but the part which is easiest to espouse and one which will have many wise heads nodding sagely in response.

However,these executions,may perhaps indicate a deeper malaise within the community at large...what that may be is open to question,but there is something very badly wrong here.

It`s all too easy to point to lack of facilities for our young people,but one needs to realize that one of Dublins largest and best run Community Youth Centre`s lies only metres from where this youthful pack hunted down and executed Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos.

I remain puzzled and not a little saddened at caseyann`s line of thinking...I hope that i`m reading it wrong

what lies behind casey anns thinking is a particular idealogical value system , pollitically correct left liberalism , its a value system which allows someone to be absolved of blame for almost anything providing they fit a particular social demographic , race , gender or religon , in this particular instance , its the category of disadvantaged wellfare class , hence the excuses about how the screwdriver wielding murderer wasnt hugged enough by his mom while growing up or couldnt afford grinds

caseyann

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m quoting the following from caseyann`s posts as I am having such difficulty coming to terms with whatever thinking may be behind them.....













There is to me something chillingly grotesque about the tone and content of the posts.

As a matter of Interest caseyann,are you from the area where the executions took place ?

Did you know these particular Polish Men in any way,as in have you an inclination as to their personalities ?

What is a "Typical Polish lad" like as a person ?

Perhaps it`s time to draw a veil over this particular crime,as it now seems there may be a campaign afoot to airbrush it from the collective memory.

It`s worth considering that as far as the State is concerned the job is done and dusted.
Justice has been served and those who were prosecuted have been punished appropriately.

It`s also worth considering that at least one of the guilty parties will be a free-man within the next 3 years.

There remain serious issues surrounding the decisions of the DPP and the level of disagreement between his office and the investigating Gardai in respect of the two female`s who were central to the entire scenario.

However,time will move on and lives will be lived,memories will fade and people will continue to read into it what they will.

When she(?) moves away from the issue of the behaviour of the Polish men,caseyann touches on some rather more basic human nature stuff about the inate goodness within us all etc.

Sadly the behaviour of the youthful pack in the lead-up to the executions is now quite readily recognisable to any resident of an Irish,village,town or city.

Both of the convicted men represent a type of humanity that is now replicated all over our land.

A type of individual always ready with the verbal lash,the sneaky thump,or eventually,the thrust of the blade or the pull of a trigger.

That comfort with violence is what sets them apart from their peers and in modern Ireland,the Cullen and the Keogh mentality is predominant within the disadvantaged youth.

Yes caseyann may be correct when she bemoans the lack of facilities,understanding and resources for these youthful types.

However,I fear that is only a small part of the equation,but the part which is easiest to espouse and one which will have many wise heads nodding sagely in response.

However,these executions,may perhaps indicate a deeper malaise within the community at large...what that may be is open to question,but there is something very badly wrong here.

It`s all too easy to point to lack of facilities for our young people,but one needs to realize that one of Dublins largest and best run Community Youth Centre`s lies only metres from where this youthful pack hunted down and executed Pawel Kalite and Marius Szwajkos.

I remain puzzled and not a little saddened at caseyann`s line of thinking...I hope that i`m reading it wrong

My line of thinking?
What could have been avoided ended in death?
So to make other people aware of what these Polish men did by returning to the confrontation,others now may think twice before they attempt the same thing? Do you not think so?
Its sad they died this is true.
Answer me this Alex what do you think was going through the two polish guys thoughts when they walked straight into that argument?
No fight?
Typical polish guys alot more than an Irish guy will have more bravado and not back down.

caseyann

Laminations wrote: »

Caseyann are you saying that because of their upbringing (victim card) that Keogh and Cullen couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong?

I believe strongly in social responsibility, providing opportunities for people to better themselves, because people can't simply choose rich or poor, it's about the circumstance they find themselves in. However I believe everyone of sound mind can choose between good and bad and know the difference between right and wrong, maybe not in the level of admitting you got too much change back but definitely on the level of stabbing vs. not stabbing someone through the head with a screwdriver. Even knowing before this that it us wrong to carry a screwdriver 'casually'. So either they knew this and are completely to blame or they didn't and are not of sound mind. The latter seems to be what you are suggesting and makes them far more dangerous, acting like animals unconscious of the damage they are causing, either way none of this is the Polish mens fault

No they cant play the card anymore.But hopefully there is a way back for them,to live and not harm any other person.
Most people who have 75 convictions under their belt dont show they are of sound mind at all!

Laminations

caseyann wrote: »

No they cant play the card anymore.But hopefully there is a way back for them,to live and not harm any other person.
Most people who have 75 convictions under their belt dont show they are of sound mind at all!

My question was, I suppose, do you think they knew the difference between right and wrong?

Laminations

caseyann wrote: »

My line of thinking?
What could have been avoided ended in death?
So to make other people aware of what these Polish men did by returning to the confrontation,others now may think twice before they attempt the same thing? Do you not think so?
Its sad they died this is true.
Answer me this Alex what do you think was going through the two polish guys thoughts when they walked straight into that argument?
No fight?
Typical polish guys alot more than an Irish guy will have more bravado and not back down.

so we are to live in communities wher we avert our gaze so as not to 'antagonize' scum and receive a 'what the fvck you lookin at?' , we are not to answer back or defend ourselves? We are to run and hide, avoid going to the local shops/chipper/offlicence? We are to accept their insults and smart remarks because doing otherwise is asking fir trouble, after which we have only ourselves to blame. Should we really just sheepishly hand our neighbourhoods over to teenage thugs?

Laminations

Liam was right to question whether you blame rape victims, I mean sure wearing that short skirt is only asking for trouble. Do you blame victims of domestic violence too for essentially asking for it? They must surely do something to trigger their poor husbands rage

caseyann

Laminations wrote: »

My question was, I suppose, do you think they knew the difference between right and wrong?

I am sure they were far from thinking of whats right or wrong in the middle of that.Not much thinking in aggression is there?

Laminations

caseyann wrote: »

I am sure they were far from thinking of whats right or wrong in the middle of that.Not much thinking in aggression is there?

Is there much thinking in getting a screwdriver, putting it in your pocket and going to stand outside the shops and abuse people?

Gladiator.

Those little scummy cowards should be squashed in a concrete cell with a shower of corrupt cowardly politicians.

caseyann

Laminations wrote: »

Is there much thinking in getting a screwdriver, putting it in your pocket and going to stand outside the shops and abuse people?

Are you suggesting that the guilty parties went there with a screw driver intent on stabbing someone with the weapon?

Laminations

caseyann wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the guilty parties went there with a screw driver intent on stabbing someone with the weapon?

Well they didn't go there to change a plug :rolleyes: And your defense of them 'in the heat of the moment' is terrible considering the conversations they had by text after the incident. You and your bleeding heart can't bring yourself to admit it but they were scum.

caseyann

Laminations wrote: »

Well they didn't go there to change a plug :rolleyes: And your defense of them 'in the heat of the moment' is terrible considering the conversations they had by text after the incident. You and your bleeding heart can't bring yourself to admit it but they were scum.

My bleeding heart?
Since previous convictions were for car theft etc... never a conviction or charge of assault of any sort? I would assume they brought the screw driver for one of them things?

AlekSmart

Answer me this Alex what do you think was going through the two polish guys thoughts when they walked straight into that argument?
No fight?
Typical polish guys alot more than an Irish guy will have more bravado and not back down.

Caseyann,please don`t misunderstand my intentions,I am genuinely at a sense of loss as to your interpretation of the events that night.

It is immaterial and irrelevant what I think was going through the minds of the Polish men as I do not possess the ability to perform mind-reading at any level.

Feel free to correct my view,but from my reading of the accounts,these men did not simply "walk-into" this scenario but were in effect targetted,approached and pursued from the moment at least one of them interacted with a youthful pack-member whilst leaving the chipper.

This "situation" was not something that "just happened".
The evidence pointed to text-messages between various willing participants which was,in effect,a declaration of intent to maim or kill the Polish men.

This incident proceeded along a public street in full view of many,probably cowed and frightened locals.

Indeed,as caseyann alludes to,there appears to be no record of anybody else contacting the Gardai in relation to the events unfolding on that street.

Perhaps this was due to such incidents being percieved as "normal",part of the nightly Opera of fear performed by this same gang with impunity.

Reviewing some of the Witness Statements also underlines how there were some other very lucky innocent people in the vicinity that night.

A Mr Ian Flynn gave evidence of sitting in his car watching the commencement of the final act and of almost being taken for the guilty party by the attacker.

For his crime of simply being there,Mr Flynn had his car kicked by the enraged Cullen it seems.

Evidence was also given that Pawel Kalite`s housemates,including Marius Szwajkos,did indeed attempt to calm their friend.

It would appear that Mr Szwajkos might not have fitted caseyann`s perception of a "typical polish guy" at all but was more concerned about his friends safety.

Yet he too had to pay the price for daring to interact with the savages,a price most people avoid paying by doing their best to avoid them.

We too pay a price,and a high one as we surrender our hard-won rights under our constitution to live our lives without fear or favour and to practice our beliefs freely without fear of punishment for being percieved as "different" in some way.

However one of the most chilling witness statements to my mind came from yet another juvenile by way of video link....

From this newspaper report...

http://www.thepost.ie/breakingnews/ireland/eyojeykfqlgb/

A teenager, who can’t be named because of his age, gave evidence by video link that he was walking down Benbulben Road that evening.

The boy, who wore an orange hoodie, questioned why he had to hold the bible before taking the oath. The bible could not be seen on screen so Mr Justice Liam McKechnie asked him if he was sure he had it in his hand.

“Why?” he asked. “Because you have to,” replied the judge.

The boy told John O’Kelly SC, prosecuting, that he saw a lot of people running that evening and that they scattered.

“I was a bit drunk,” he replied when asked for more detail. “I ran myself.”

Mr O’Kelly asked him if he had made a statement to gardaí.

“I think so but I’m not sure what it was. Do you get me?” he replied.

Mr O’Kelly told the judge he had an application to make and the teenager was asked to return to court on Monday.

“Why? This is my seventh poxy time to come to this court,” he complained. “Why not now?” he demanded of the judge. “I’m asking you a simple question.”

The boy eventually agreed to return on Monday when trial will continue before a jury of eight women and four men.

I`m not sure caseyann as to whether this particular witness represents the mainstream youth of the area,but the extent of attitude displayed towards the entire Court Process would appear to suggest that the remote evidence procedure may well have been more for the Judges Safety than any threat to the Juvenile.

However caseyann,I fear Laminations has a somewhat more realistic assessment of where our society is curently at,thanks in no small measure to the dominance of the wolfpack ethos as evidenced so clearly in this case.

We are to run and hide, avoid going to the local shops/chipper/offlicence? We are to accept their insults and smart remarks because doing otherwise is asking fir trouble, after which we have only ourselves to blame. Should we really just sheepishly hand our neighbourhoods over to teenage thugs?

Laminations

caseyann wrote: »

My bleeding heart?
Since previous convictions were for car theft etc... never a conviction or charge of assault of any sort? I would assume they brought the screw driver for one of them things?

And my point being, whatever they brought the screwdriver for it was for no good, so do they know the difference between right and wrong (taking into account what they said after they executed two people). And when you stab someone through the head with a sharp object what exactly would be your intentions other to fatally wound them? The argument of 'i only meant to hurt him judge' is being usued far to often in cases where it's either blatantly not true or even more worryingly the perp doesn't know the effect of driving a knife into someones head/neck/heart

Laminations

AlekSmart wrote: »

However caseyann,I fear Laminations has a somewhat more realistic assessment of where our society is curently at,thanks in no small measure to the dominance of the wolfpack ethos as evidenced so clearly in this case.

I'm not sure whether you are chastising me for me use of an us and them division but I make this distinction between thugs and non-thugs, it's not a rich vs poor social class thing.

AlekSmart

Since previous convictions were for car theft etc... never a conviction or charge of assault of any sort? I would assume they brought the screw driver for one of them things?

Again caseyann,I`m not so certain we should be so quick to accept a "sure it was only thieving he had priors for" arguement.

The evidence given here would appear to indicate that the transgressions were at extreme end of the "Only Car Thieving" scale ?

Detective Garda William Ryan told the Central Criminal Court that Keogh had 75 previous convictions.

He said that on May 26th last year he was sentenced to five years in prison for two counts of endangerment. He also received a five-year sentence for criminal damage, three years for the unauthorised taking of a vehicle and six months for driving without insurance, with his driving without a licence taken into consideration.

He was banned from driving for seven years for dangerous driving on the same occasion. All sentences were concurrent, with the last two years suspended.

D Gda Ryan explained that Keogh got bail on these charges on August 30th, 2007 so was out on bail when he kicked a dying Pawel Kalite in the head.

It is also,I think,worthwhile to re-post the Victim Impact Statement read out by Mr Kalite`s and Mr Szwajkos`s employer.

Victim impact statements were read out in court by Alan Kennedy of Ace Autobody, where the two men had worked.

Mr Kalite’s parents said their son was lively and cheerful, with a “happy, true nature”.

He was honest and diligent and led a simple and peaceful life. He was determined to do his best, and to see the best in the world, they said.

“He didn’t know how to fight or how much cruelty and anger you have to have in yourself to take someone else’s life away,” they said.

He had spent his last holiday with his girlfriend skiing and they had planned to marry. He was to move home in June and two hours before his death had arranged to visit his aunt.

“All his dreams will remain unrealised, they will never have a chance to happen,” his parents said. The tragedy had left them with “the deepest scars” and with “a screwdriver” in their hearts.

What was keeping them alive was knowing his heart was still beating in somebody else, they said. The family of Mr Szwaijkos said nothing could change their pain, sadness and longing after the death.

Mr Szwaijkos was full of life, dreams, happiness and plans, they said, and was a “lovely and talented person”.

They described him as an honest, hard-working, unaggressive young man with a master’s degree in mechanical engineering who was doing his job with a true passion.

Every day for the two years he spent in Ireland he had called his parents. But all his plans and hopes had been destroyed in minutes.” We know that no matter what we do there always will be one person missing, a person that we would like to share our feelings and experiences with,” they said.

The family had gone through hell since his death, they said, and were still experiencing “many sleepless nights, enormous level of stress, headaches and an inability to feel any kind of joy”.

They said they would keep the 30-year-old Volkswagen Beetle Mr Szwaijkos restored.

When a stranger blew out the candle of life, “he killed a good man and he destroyed the lives of his parents, sister and family”, they said.

Outside the Central Criminal Court, Mr Kennedy, accompanied by Agnieszka Kalite, Mr Kalite’s sister, thanked the court and the jury for their verdict on behalf of the family.

He also thanked the people of Drimnagh who had supported them since the deaths as well as gardaí for “two years of hard work”.

“It is something to get a verdict, but for Marius’s family and Pawel’s family all they are left with are memories and heartache,” he said.

As Ms Kalite cried beside him, Mr Kennedy described the “two lovely guys” who had come to work for him.

“We’d invested in their training and they gave it back to us in spades,” he said.

He spoke emotionally of the suffering experienced by both men’s families since their deaths.

“Every day two dads go to a graveyard to keep two graves, they are beautiful graves, but what a sentence to have to go to your son’s grave,” he said.

“What a waste of life.”

AlekSmart

I'm not sure whether you are chastising me for me use of an us and them division but I make this distinction between thugs and non-thugs, it's not a rich vs poor social class thing.

Not at all chastising you Laminations.

I would share your opinion on the Societal distinctions which have been implimented over the generations to effectively turn Society on it`s head.

It has brought us to a place where wrong is right and punishment is reserved for the victim.

A place where a desire to be productive or work for a living is somehow regarded as threatening to those who choose choose to live off the contributions made by that worker.

But most of all we now inhabit a place where the true nature of evil can be somehow denied, diluted or even erased in a collective attempt to convince ourselves that all is ok and we don`t need to challenge things at all.

As for the Screwdriver...It appears it was a tool-of-the-trade to facilitate the stealing of other peoples property and was in fact used that very day in an attempt to steal somebody else`s Scooter,thwarted by the arrival of the Gardai.

Nijmegen

I've lived next to people who would, to one degree or another, be the same scale of loutishness as this crowd - hanging around small shopping centers we have in all our communities, giving non provoked abuse and taking to mischief, thuggery, theft and so on.

Their mindset is very plain, very simple, and very backwards to our civilized norms. The average man or woman in the street does not want to provoke a reaction, keeps their head down and keeps on walking.

God love you if, as I have, you lived next to any of them. It only gets worse. You cannot sit in your own back garden for fear of trouble.

I, like most of you I am sure, am a tax paying citizen. I, like most of us and these two Polish men, go to work every day, pay our taxes and do our due. We do not deserve to be held to ransom by those who take and never give, no matter their background or societal problems.

I agree with the policy of trying to make these into better people, through education and opportunity. But it is down to them to accept those. If they do not, they can go and spend their entire lives off the streets as far as I am concerned, because I am sick of having to walk teenage daughters to a shop for genuine fear of her safety.

I am sick of losing people from work because they were standing at a bus stop to go into town for a nice evening of socialising when they are set upon by thugs with metal bars... Why? For being a man with long hair.

We can try and better these people, but we must punish them severely when they do not conform to the laws of our civilized society.

sickofwaiting

caseyann wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the guilty parties went there with a screw driver intent on stabbing someone with the weapon?

You can be sure he went there with the intent to use the screwdriver. This scumbag was enraged, completely off his head on drink and drugs, he was on the warpath and he was looking to cause maximum damage. I don't know why you are acting as if this is news to you, it was accepted in the court case that one of the girls called Curran specifically because she knew he was a psycho who would, at the minimum, seriously assault these polish guys.

Liam Byrne

caseyann wrote: »

I would assume they brought the screw driver for one of them things?

Yet another assumption in favour of the thugs, while all you've done is cast aspersions on the victims thinking and actions ?

:rolleyes:

caseyann

AlekSmart wrote: »

Again caseyann,I`m not so certain we should be so quick to accept a "sure it was only thieving he had priors for" arguement.

The evidence given here would appear to indicate that the transgressions were at extreme end of the "Only Car Thieving" scale ?



It is also,I think,worthwhile to re-post the Victim Impact Statement read out by Mr Kalite`s and Mr Szwajkos`s employer.

Wreck-less endangerment can be for the passengers in the car with the driver!

There is no mention of previous assaults on anyone in his convictions

Did i say anywhere what he did was right?

I simply said they system is crock of **** that this guy and the other guy would never have got to that amount of convictions nor would have been out on street to cause any harm or steel anything,if the system did their job!
And i also pointed out if they had not gone back out of their house and instead rang the Garda none of that would have ever happened also.
If i had of walked out my front door when two guys who had followed me home and been in a verbal or any altercation with them already,i would have known there was no way there wasn't going to be some kind of fight.

caseyann

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yet another assumption in favour of the thugs, while all you've done is cast aspersions on the victims thinking and actions ?

:rolleyes:

Where have i showed favour to the thugs
I am using logic they are thieves they carried the screw drive to rob more than likely.And this occurred.
I simply said i hope they can change their ways still young.
Doubtful in our system.

Liam Byrne

caseyann wrote: »

I am using logic they are thieves they carried the screw drive to rob more than likely.

You are assuming. You don't know.

This assumption was in their (the thugs) favour, but you earlier talked about the Polish guys contributing, assuming that they "acted like blokes" and contributed the the fight by looking for trouble.

caseyann wrote: »

The polish lads were been typical polish lads thinking they were going to kick their asses.

You had no basis to assume what "typical polish lads" are like, or whether the victims acted like that. You don't know what they did.

You also don't know what the thug was going to do with the screwdriver.

But you're happy to fill in the blanks with assumptions that mean that the Polish lads contributed while the thug wanted to do something else entirely.

So you're giving the thugs all the assumptions in their favour, while giving the victims no assumptions in their favour.

That, to me, is very curious.

sickofwaiting

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You are assuming. You don't know.

This assumption was in their (the thugs) favour, but you earlier talked about the Polish guys contributing, assuming that they "acted like blokes" and contributed the the fight by looking for trouble.



So you're giving the thugs all the assumptions in their favour, while giving the victims no assumptions in their favour.

That, to me, is very curious.

+1.

caseyann writes "The polish lads were been typical polish lads thinking they were going to kick their asses."

Why aren't you applying that logic to the scumbags??? As in "The scumbags were being typical scumbags thinking they were going to attack the completely innocent polish guys with the screwdriver."

caseyann

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You are assuming. You don't know.

This assumption was in their (the thugs) favour, but you earlier talked about the Polish guys contributing, assuming that they "acted like blokes" and contributed the the fight by looking for trouble.



You had no basis to assume what "typical polish lads" are like, or whether the victims acted like that. You don't know what they did.

You also don't know what the thug was going to do with the screwdriver.

But you're happy to fill in the blanks with assumptions that mean that the Polish lads contributed while the thug wanted to do something else entirely.

So you're giving the thugs all the assumptions in their favour, while giving the victims no assumptions in their favour.

That, to me, is very curious.

They were in their house???
They then left the house to confront said thugs whilst coming from a country that is very well known for thuggery and alot of violence.
They knew they were going to end up in some form of altercation.
How could they possibly not?
If you walk out the front door to confront thugs outside your house what is it to do shake hands and ask them politely to leave?

I never said when they followed them home they didn't intend on causing harm,that's obvious they although did it in a drunken drugged state.Not an excuse but that's how it happened so their sense everything alot less inclined to be thinking correctly.
They i do not think intended on stabbing and murdering two people.
Blind rage induced by drink and drugs and relied up by this girl?

But also added if those guys had not left the house and the system was working none of it would have happened.