Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

morana · 04-02-2012 5:09pm

boege wrote: »

If there is any fairness in the sport there needs to be a transparent and accepted methods of detection, adjudication and sanction.

Armstrong was not subject to any sanction and if there is a flaw then it is with the lack of transparency in the systems to detect cheating. If Armstrong cheated then to me he is just another cheating cyclists but if he did then it raises bigger questions about the entire running of the sport.

The current delays surrounding Contador display the continued lack of confiction to act with transparency and urgency. Ultimately this is damaging for everyone for once accused the suspicion will remain, reardless of any test results.

In short there is no means to prove ones innocence.

In fairness the tests for epo, hgh, blood transfusions, plasticizers etc didnt exist. In the early days the detection of epo had to be in a small window after the drug was taken.

The current situation with Contador is a joke.

boege · 04-02-2012 5:14pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Do you think investigations and hearings should be rushed in order to satisfy public curiosity?

No and I did not make that point. I called for transparency and decisiveness for the benefit of all racers.

Contador's test results have been known for some time. If it was any other cyclist it would have been sorted by now, the name on the urine sample should not matter.

Chips Lovell · 04-02-2012 5:19pm

boege wrote: »

No and I did not make that point. I called for transparency and decisiveness for the benefit of all racers.

Contador's test results have been known for some time. If it was any other cyclist it would have been sorted by now, the name on the urine sample should not matter.

If it were any other cyclist, they wouldn't be able to afford the team of lawyers Contador threw at the case. The more high profile the rider, the more it is contested and the longer you can expect the hearings to drag on.

boege · 04-02-2012 5:39pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

If it were any other cyclist, they wouldn't be able to afford the team of lawyers Contador threw at the case. The more high profile the rider, the more it is contested and the longer you can expect the hearings to drag on.

Money talks and the sport suffers!

ROK ON · 04-02-2012 6:57pm

@Vlad. You have raised a point about the timliness of legal cases and that he has money to drag things out.
I think that is generally the case worldwide in civil matters but nit in regard to criminal proceedings. The Feds were trying to build a credible case. Unfortunately they haven't one. I think the sport should move on now.

Yes all his blood still exists. I don't know why the doping authorities have not requested it tested, but they haven't.

He is a very very flawed individual, whether he is innocent or guilty of doping won't change my opinion of the guy. It is my opinion based on the circumstantial evidence that he may well have. But I don't know what it achieves to punish him retrospectively.

It's a pity they can't prosecute someone for be g an assh0le as the evidence there is pretty incontrovertible. But they can't.

They couldn't get him. The sport needs to move on.
Maybe they will get Bertie. But bychrist the administration of dope eating and prosecution needs to change from the present ongoing farce.

irishmotorist · 05-02-2012 12:16am

Leroy42 wrote: »

...
Yet somehow, all of you guys just 'know' that he doped. Based on what evidence. Circumstantial, certainly, but is that enough to wipe out the achievments of the greatest TdF champion in history (in terms of victories).
...

Are you aware of the circumstantial evidence that is out there? I'm thinking of things like:

Eyewitness accounts from teammates who (claim to) have witnessed him administering PEDs.
Eyewitness accounts from teammates, colleagues and friends who (claim to have) heard him admit to using PEDs.
Secretive dumping of medical equipment during a TDF.
Close association with the doctor who is best known (to me anyway) as being Dr EPO.
His performances against people who were found to be EPO'd off their nuts - see the Mont Ventoux video in a recent post.

There's more, but that's the most that comes to the top of my head.

Yes, he's the most tested man - blah blah. I'm not sure about now, but at the time there was no test for the EPO substance. The only tool that testers had for the likes of EPO was being able to trace unusual blood values. A smart doper could circumvent this by being careful.

If you are aware of the publicly available circumstantial evidence, do you think he's innocent?

Beasty · 05-02-2012 12:31am

irishmotorist wrote: »

If you are aware of the publicly available circumstantial evidence, do you think he's innocent?

Posters are perfectly entitled to think whatever they like. They cannot, however, speculate that any individual has illegally taken Performance Enhancing Drugs on this site, so please do not ask other posters whether they "think" he's innocent, or post any views implying he is not

Thanks

Beasty

irishmotorist · 05-02-2012 12:40am

Beasty wrote: »

Posters are perfectly entitled to think whatever they like. They cannot, however, speculate that any individual has illegally taken Performance Enhancing Drugs on this site, so please do not ask other posters whether they "think" he's innocent, or post any views implying he is not

Thanks

Beasty

I was trying to be careful with my wording, but this slipped through. Apologies.

mattser · 06-02-2012 2:02pm

Once again the baying pack uncover.........NOTHING. Things curiously quiet about this in print over here.

Inquitus · 06-02-2012 2:25pm

mattser wrote: »

Once again the baying pack uncover.........NOTHING. Things curiously quiet about this in print over here.

To win 7 tours during the most drug riddled decade in cycling and not be doping? That if true would be incredible. This was an era where PEDs gave massive performance gains, and he was beating people like Pantani in the hills who we subsequently know was juiced up to his eyeballs. That certainly casts a long shadow over his achievements imho.

petethedrummer · 06-02-2012 3:00pm

Great news, I can wear my Livestrong jersey with pride again when I start back into the cycling in June. See yous out on the road.

ROK ON · 06-02-2012 3:04pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

Great news, I can wear my Livestrong jersey with pride again when I start back into the cycling in June. See yous out on the road.

Livestrong jersey - Ha. I,ve seen a guy cycling on a livestrong bike!!!

petethedrummer · 06-02-2012 3:06pm

That's some strong living.

Captain Havoc · 06-02-2012 3:19pm

Whilst not beating the bike, at last years TdF there was a guy opposite me wearing LIVESTRONG* cap, t-shirt, jawbone and wrist-band, I assume he had matching shorts, black socks and sandles. I looked further down and in a corner I could huddled in a corner, Jesus weeping.

*Do you like what I did there? :trollsmileyface:

Hermy · 06-02-2012 3:52pm

It's not about the bike!

happytramp · 07-02-2012 4:37pm

Woah! This is pretty crazy. Seems like they had a very strong case and were on the verge bringing charges against several people when they were inexplicably shut down at the last minute. Apparently Cyclingnews spoke to a source who had co-operated with the investigation who said...

I talked to someone within the investigation but the reason why the case was shut down was due to a one man decision. The evidence against those involved was absolutely overwhelming. They were going to be charged with a slew of crimes but for reasons unexplained he closed the case saying it wasn't open for discussion,”

This just gets weirder and weirder.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/concerns-over-closure-of-federal-investigation-into-armstrong-and-us-postal

furiousox · 07-02-2012 4:43pm

furiousox wrote: »

"Make it go away George.."

Hmmm...

NickDrake · 07-02-2012 4:54pm

This is absolutely disgraceful – Another Lance Armstrong cover up?

Why am I not surprised.

petethedrummer · 07-02-2012 5:17pm

More lies about arguably the greatest human being ever to have lived.

Inquitus · 07-02-2012 5:21pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

More lies about arguably the greatest human being ever to have lived.

Someone been spreading rumours Einstein was on EPO again?

NickDrake · 07-02-2012 5:24pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

More lies about arguably the greatest human being ever to have lived.

fat bloke · 07-02-2012 5:26pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

More lies about arguably the greatest human being ever to have lived.

Jaysus... sure, maybe, if he'd taken some personality enhancing drugs....

Undercover Elephant · 07-02-2012 5:30pm

So ... a journalist spoke to a source who co-operated with the investigation who says that someone on the team told him that someone shut the investigation down. There was overwhelming evidence, but we aren't told whether it was the journalist, the source, the someone, or the evil shutter-downer who said so.

Impressive stuff.

Lumen · 07-02-2012 5:32pm

happytramp wrote: »

I talked to someone within the investigation but the reason why the case was shut down was due to a one man decision.

seven stars · 07-02-2012 6:46pm

Is it possible that Armstrong is a member of a shadowy global elite of shape-shifting reptilians? Seems like the best explanation that's been presented so far.