Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

Slideshowbob

btw i detest the way the Irish Times could make a huge article out of a negitive cycling story today

Yet - cycling results barely get mentioned

if they are going to write acres about doping in cycling they should also be willing to write about races!!

mcgratheoin

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I think let sleeping dogs lie regarding Kelly etc

LA is still getting millions and 'promoting' cycling etc n all that

I know where you're coming from, but as has been pointed out, as long as every Director Sportif, team principal, manager, promoter and commentator is a former drug user, there is no way that the cycling "establishment" (all of the above) can really do anything except tiptoe around the issue.
Think about all the cycling on TV and try to remember a time when a commentator gave an opinion on drug use that tallies with what the majority of us fans think? You may as well ask Maradona what he thought of Henry's handball!!
Last night's commentary on the tour of California was atrocious - Lance crashing out was their biggest story of the day with a few mentions of Floyd "mud-slinging" and a general disapproval of what he's doing. I dont think Backstedt even made a single comment on it...

Slideshowbob

Are you seriously suggesting get Kelly off Eurosport because he won't go on about doping?

As it stands now the sport needs to look for big wins in terms of eradicating doping.

They can do this by looking at curent riders moreso than those who quit 15 years ago +.

Who would replace Kelly? As you said Backsteidt wasnt caught but he doesnt go heavy on dopers either.

Isnt it much more dangerous to have Riis handling a Pro Tour team than Kelly sitting in a commentary box and giving his name to a small pro team!? Why not criticise him - there are bigger fish around than Kelly

IM0

Leroy42 wrote: »

[talking about the boss]
...How can people not think that he was using the same stuff to beat the guys that are faily suspect. Seems strange that so many are willin to accept that he is the clean god or something.

in simple terms he is bigger than the man himself, if he hadn't of had such a 'miraculous' come back after cancer and risen to such highs in the mean time and inspiring so many with his disease along the way, he probably would have been buried long ago ..legally I mean

simply put too many people be it organisation chiefs or cancer survivors have gained so much from his story that simply he is teflon then and now, Im not one for conspiracy theories and frankly I couldnt give a fiddlers f*ck if he did it or not, that time has come and gone for me, all I can say is I wont be anyway surprised if it comes out in the end.

After 2 of his postal teammates from the dreamteam were busted after they moved to other teams and decided to take him on, I began to think that as a best case his whole team doped but not necessarily him, and when another couple of names were added to that list so in total of the high profile ones Heras, Landis, [rubiera?], Hamilton, Andreau? and more Im sure. It would nt matter if he doped or not in those years he should still be stripped of those 7 wins as you cant win the tour without a very strong team, and if your whole team is doped to the eye balls then they can chase down any attacks for you and control the race on your bad days
especially, and in the middle of that win the queen stage themselves Hincapie anyone?

Also the way doping controls were then so I believe was if you were not way up on the stage or gc you were not tested? and the only chance was of being picked at 'random' and so do the math as to the chance of one of his super doms being picked for one of those stages out of a peloton of 150+ allowing for the fact 10-20 will have dropped out up to that point in the tour.

ednwireland

landis emails to tour of california organisers
http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/

published on radioshacks website hmmmm

kennyb3

Re these e-mails now on the site surely you or i could make them up. i refuse to believe any of them until some one verifies them from the original computer records in some way

Hermy

How can you verify anything when nobody believes Landis when he admits that when he lied about telling the truth he was actually teliing the truth about lying.

Lumen

kennyb3 wrote: »

Re these e-mails now on the site surely you or i could make them up. i refuse to believe any of them until some one verifies them from the original computer records in some way

It can be quite difficult to verify e-mail records - they're not a reliable media.

Who are you suggesting made them up? Livestrong?

Hermy wrote: »

How can you verify anything when nobody believes Landis when he admits that when he lied about telling the truth he was actually teliing the truth about lying.

These sort of issues tend to be quite common in criminal investigations.

mcgratheoin

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting get Kelly off Eurosport because he won't go on about doping?

Whoa there horsey.... Not having a go at Kelly or suggesting that all commentators should be goody two shoes, but if we want doping to be condemned by the establishment, then we'll be waiting a long time because there are a lot of people within cycling who have dirty fingers so to speak. I have no problem with SK commentating - I am a fan of the guy myself, but I think we have to be realistic about what went on in the past and how that affects current thinking within the sport. In addition, it is farcical in the extreme to listen to any commentators tiptoe around the elephant in the room that practically every recreational cyclist worldwide is talking about.

Isnt it much more dangerous to have Riis handling a Pro Tour team than Kelly sitting in a commentary box and giving his name to a small pro team!? Why not criticise him - there are bigger fish around than Kelly

I thought I did, as far as I was concerned I lumped him in with the

mcgratheoin wrote:

every Director Sportif, team principal, manager, promoter and commentator

I mentioned in the previous post

My point about SK was just to disagree with your suggestion of letting sleeping dogs lie. Regardless of the mitigating factors, any cyclist in the past who doped was cheating and this has to be acknowledged. I would rather appreciate someone's career with all it's ups and downs than to be like Jimmy Magee claiming that all is rosy because Michelle Smith never tested positive in competition.

IM0

The only way you could verify it is have a trusted independant justice of peace or something look over the shoulder of who evers account they are on and then watch as he prints them off and make sure they are identical...simples

kennyb3

Lumen wrote: »

Who are you suggesting made them up? Livestrong?

yes, are they not pulling the we are being super open, we ve nothing to hide, we arent worried sure landis is a proven liar, look at us card?

that would be a big card if it had all that wrote on it

blorg

kennyb3 wrote: »

Re these e-mails now on the site surely you or i could make them up. i refuse to believe any of them until some one verifies them from the original computer records in some way

I think they are believable. I doubt Landis will deny he wrote them. I don't think they really have much bearing on the allegations to be honest.

Hermy

Lumen wrote: »

These sort of issues tend to be quite common in criminal investigations.

:D

Captain Havoc

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Statement from Radioshack

My favourite bit:

Lance never has and never will give anyone money, or anything else, to keep them from airing falsehoods.


Does that mean that Johan did on his behalf!?

I find it interesting that it seems more of an attack on Landis than an unequivocal denial of all the allegations

but he would give money, or something else, to keep them from airing the truth

Captain Havoc

I really don't know what to make of all this, convicted doper writes an email to the head of US cycling which is leaked. He really doesn't have any evidence unless he can get that 2001 Tour de Suisse sample retested by an independent tester but maybe he didn't want this to be leaked out. The media and bike forums are having a field day which adding fuel to the fire and obscuring the story. I still don't see anything coming of this.

ednwireland

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I really don't know what to make of all this, convicted doper writes an email to the head of US cycling which is leaked. He really doesn't have any evidence unless he can get that 2001 Tour de Suisse sample retested by an independent tester but maybe he didn't want this to be leaked out. The media and bike forums are having a field day which adding fuel to the fire and obscuring the story. I still don't see anything coming of this.

what the heck would we all talk about

RobFowl

IM0

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Usual tripe the LA love gang wheel out. He has tested positive.

Read this run down of the 1999 test results by Michael Ashendon, that should clarify it for you.

few possible things about that

1) the interviewer is in fact delusional (there was no interview or he doctor'd it to fulfil whatever agenda he had)

2) the man himself Ashenden is delusional (he takes meds and talks through his arse :pac:)

3) some or all of the above but with the addition of the fact it was posted on the intertron which as we all know is gods word itself!

basically if most of that was true LA would have been buried long ago, or else like I said before too many people have too much to lose.

one part of this post is the truth, but we will probably never know [shrug]

petethedrummer

NBC Poll

MrCreosote

Slideshowbob wrote: »

btw i detest the way the Irish Times could make a huge article out of a negitive cycling story today

Yet - cycling results barely get mentioned

if they are going to write acres about doping in cycling they should also be willing to write about races!!

Not at all- doping is the ONLY story in cycling at the moment for the general public. And for the people interested in cycling this is still the biggest story of the year. The size of the article is in proportion I'd have said.

TinyExplosions

me@ucd wrote: »

basically if most of that was true LA would have been buried long ago, or else like I said before too many people have too much to lose.

You'd like to think that, but as the re-tests were done on a 'b' sample, they aren't admissible to WADA. When Lance came back, one of the first questions asked was if he'd allow the 99 samples to be retested seeing as he was being open and had nothing to hide, and that was met with a big, fat 'no'.

Chips Lovell

Slideshowbob wrote: »

btw i detest the way the Irish Times could make a huge article out of a negitive cycling story today

Yet - cycling results barely get mentioned

if they are going to write acres about doping in cycling they should also be willing to write about races!!

It's simple, more newspaper readers are interested in this than race results. It's a massive story. Even people who've never so much as watched one stage of the Tour know all about Lance Armstrong.

I've lost count of the number of people over the past few days who've quizzed me on this story and wouldn't even know that the Giro is on at the moment.

Chips Lovell

I don't know why Radioshack released those emails. They're not half as damning as they seem to think they are.

petethedrummer

MrCreosote wrote: »

Not at all- doping is the ONLY story in cycling at the moment for the general public. And for the people interested in cycling this is still the biggest story of the year. The size of the article is in proportion I'd have said.

I agree, this could be a watershed moment. What Landis needs is one more rider to back him up as happened with Team Telekom. Jef d'Hont wrote a book admitting doping at the team. When Bert Dietz confirmed it; Aldag, Zabel and Riis eventually caved too.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/sport/othersport/article_1308798.php/Aldag_Zabel_confess_to_EPO_doping_at_Team_Telekom

Chips Lovell

Why didn't Radioshack publish the replies to these emails? Were they replied to?

petethedrummer

Raiser

Lumen wrote: »

Landis claimed he was clean in his book "Positively False". Now he says he doped throughout his career. His allegations against Armstrong are therefore the allegations of a proven liar.

Its always irked me that Lance Armstrong has been so apparently nuclear powered and still "clean"

- Its comparable to having to watch Michelle Smith cantering around on Waterford Crystal winning very race going with nobody able to catch her out......

Am looking forward to his grovelling apology - What an absolute Global class W@nker.

petethedrummer

Dear David Harmon,
Whats it like to share a commentary booth with Sean Kelly and the big elephant in the corner?

We can hear it tramping around in the background. Why do you never talk about it?

Regards,
Pete

Beached

I just wasted 30 min of my saturday morning reading them radioshack emails. They really said nothing to make Landis look worse.Hopefully positive things come out of the whole mess. Mcquaid an Newstalk was very dissapointing on thursday night

Beached

petethedrummer wrote: »

Dear David Harmon,
Whats it like to share a commentary booth with Sean Kelly and the big elephant in the corner?

We can hear it tramping around in the background. Why do you never talk about it?

Regards,
Pete

Id imagine that part of eurosport getting the TV rights for cycling events, would involve keeping their commentators opinoins fairly conservative.