Christianity Forum

Twin-go

In the Christianity Forum it seems that a lot of the time a non Christian point of few on a thread = Troll = Lock.

Can the tread not just be moved? Would it be possible to set up an Open forum for Thiest and Non-Theist discussions? A Religion & Spirituality "After Hours" forum if you will. I think some threads get cut off too soon.

Thanks,

Twin-go

Onesimus

Twin-go wrote: »

In the Christianity Forum it seems that a lot of the time a non Christian point of few on a thread = Troll = Lock.

Can the tread not just be moved? Would it be possible to set up an Open forum for Thiest and Non-Theist discussions? A Religion & Spirituality "After Hours" forum if you will. I think some threads get cut off too soon.

Thanks,

Twin-go

to be honest when I come here its like i might as well be in the after hours forum, I dont see any christianity in it at all, just atheists and secularists punching people around using clever tactics to do so in order to ''keep in'' with the forum rules.

I dont see anyone talking about the love of God, the great graces one can recieve through the sacraments, the Bible the rosary and so on. all I see is fightin.

Its enough to make you unchristian, so there you have it folks, if you wanna lose your religion come to a forum where you'd least expect to do so, the christianity forum on boards.

Sorry if the above seems a bit nasty, but I dont know how else to express it or put it into words

PDN

Twin-go wrote: »

In the Christianity Forum it seems that a lot of the time a non Christian point of few on a thread = Troll = Lock.

Non-Christian views are welcome if they abide by the Charter.

Can the tread not just be moved?

Not if the OP was looking for a discussion among Christians. It is frustrating when you post a thread in one forum only to see it moved to, and then ripped apart in, another forum with different posting and moderating standards.

Would it be possible to set up an Open forum for Thiest and Non-Theist discussions? A Religion & Spirituality "After Hours" forum if you will. I think some threads get cut off too soon.

I think it's called A&A.

Fanny Cradock

Twin-go wrote: »

In the Christianity Forum it seems that a lot of the time a non Christian point of few on a thread = Troll = Lock.

Can the tread not just be moved? Would it be possible to set up an Open forum for Thiest and Non-Theist discussions? A Religion & Spirituality "After Hours" forum if you will. I think some threads get cut off too soon.

Thanks,

Twin-go

Suggestions are noted.

Unfortunately, I don't see what having an After Hours for theist and non-theists would achieve. Let's face it, this would turn out to be the same people posting on the same topics but with less control. One AH is fine. Two would be an abomination.

Rarely does this forum serve the purpose that I had once hoped it would fulfil. While the line is fine between a genuine inquiry or a fair challenge and an unwarranted attack or a polemic, I think there are enough examples on a regular basis of the latter to almost make the 1st rule of the charter in need of doctoring.

1. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. This forum has the additional purpose of being a point on Boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith. In this regard, Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack.

I would feel confident in saying that I'm not the only Christian who believes that this is a place to defend the faith, not grow in it.

Twin-go

PDN and Fanny,

Thats what I'm getting at. I like been on this forum and challenging and been challenged by Christians and their strong beliefs. However, I feel there should also be a place for the forums orginal intentions.

Maybe you could make it a forum that an access request is required like the soccer forum. This will perhaps weed out those with the sole purpose of Trollong.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Twin-go

antiskeptic

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Suggestions are noted.

Unfortunately, I don't see what having an After Hours for theist and non-theists would achieve. Let's face it, this would turn out to be the same people posting on the same topics but with less control. One AH is fine. Two would be an abomination.

Rarely does this forum serve the purpose that I had once hoped it would fulfil. While the line is fine between a genuine inquiry or a fair challenge and an unwarranted attack or a polemic, I think there are enough examples on a regular basis of the latter to almost make the 1st rule of the charter in need of doctoring.



I would feel confident in saying that I'm not the only Christian who believes that this is a place to defend the faith, not grow in it.

It couldn't be that difficult to erect an in-forum partition. If the thread title contains [Christian-response only] then that's what it would mean. Most of the non-theists who post here post here frequently enough to quickly get the intent and stay clear. Those who insist on chipping in get ejected from Christianity altogether.

Fanny Cradock

Twin-go wrote: »

PDN and Fanny,

Thats what I'm getting at. I like been on this forum and challenging and been challenged by Christians and their strong beliefs. However, I feel there should also be a place for the forums orginal intentions.

Maybe you could make it a forum that an access request is required like the soccer forum. This will perhaps weed out those with the sole purpose of Trollong.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Twin-go

We have discussed the possibility of a sub-forum before. It might be worth revisiting at some stage.

Fanny Cradock

antiskeptic wrote: »

It couldn't be that difficult to erect an in-forum partition. If the thread title contains [Christian-response only] then that's what it would mean. Most of the non-theists who post here post here frequently enough to quickly get the intent and stay clear. Those who insist on chipping in get ejected from Christianity altogether.

Isn't that what we try to do already?

StealthRolex

antiskeptic wrote: »

It couldn't be that difficult to erect an in-forum partition. If the thread title contains [Christian-response only] then that's what it would mean. Most of the non-theists who post here post here frequently enough to quickly get the intent and stay clear. Those who insist on chipping in get ejected from Christianity altogether.

It would seem a bit circular - inside a Christianity forum having to specify [Christian-response only] in the thread title.

While non-Christian views are welcome trolling should incur an immediate ban for a week to allow a thread develop rather than having potentially decent threads terminated prematurely.

Zombrex

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

We have discussed the possibility of a sub-forum before. It might be worth revisiting at some stage.

I think a sub form, such as Non-Believer Christian Queries/Discussion is a great idea

It works well on the Paranormal forum, where skeptical discussion is put in the Skeptics Corner. Plenty of paranormal believers and non-believers alike discuss in that forum but there is no expectation that the person you will be discussing something with is like minded and equally it keeps the Paranormal forum from being littered with "Paranormal stuff doesn't happen heres why" type treads.

Anything along the lines of say This contradiction proves the bible isn't historic..., or I've come up with a good way to convince non-believers can just be moved into the sub-form, so Christians who don't want their main forum full of Christian topics but not Christian spirited responses need never venture into that forum, but people can still discuss Christian topics without having to be a believer.

Basically anything in the main forum is considered the same as a Christian Responses Only Please and anything in the sub-forum isn't.

prinz

Wicknight wrote: »

Anything along the lines of say This contradiction proves the bible isn't historic..., or I've come up with a good way to convince non-believers can just be moved into the sub-form, so Christians who don't want their main forum full of Christian topics but not Christian spirited responses need never venture into that forum, but people can still discuss Christian topics without having to be a believer..

Again, isn't that what the A&A forum is for? You may as well go there and ask them to set up a sub forum for Christians/Religious who want to debate atheists/agnostics.

I really have to wonder about the people who have no interest whatsoever in learning anything about Christianity yet feel compelled to post here anyway. I am not a great fan of jazz, other peoples are but it's just not for me. I am not going to keep returning to the Jazz forum expecting the people there looking to discuss their love for jazz convince me. I just don't go there.

If people want to discuss why Christianity is nonsense ----> A&A forum IMO

Manach

Thought to be fair, A&A hold all religions in the same light - though a special place seems to be kept for us Christians.

StealthRolex

Manach wrote: »

Thought to be fair, A&A hold all religions in the same light - though a special place seems to be kept for us Christians.

Fair point. I wonder if maybe God has a special place for the A&A members

drkpower

prinz wrote: »

I really have to wonder about the people who have no interest whatsoever in learning anything about Christianity yet feel compelled to post here anyway. I am not a great fan of jazz, other peoples are but it's just not for me. I am not going to keep returning to the Jazz forum expecting the people there looking to discuss their love for jazz convince me. I just don't go there.

Maybe if much governmental policy and law was based on jazz, and if 90%+ of schools had a jazz-based ethos you might find more reason to frequent the jazz forum, and discuss the merits and demerits of jazz?

prinz

drkpower wrote: »

Maybe if much governmental policy and law was based on jazz, and if 90%+ of schools had a jazz-based ethos you might find more reason to frequent the jazz forum, and discuss the merits and demerits of jazz?

No, I'd take it to a forum where like minded people could discuss it. A forum for people who didn't believe in jazz.

drkpower

prinz wrote: »

No, I'd take it to a forum where like minded people could discuss it. A forum for people who didn't believe in jazz.

Fair enough; personally I'd be inclined to engage with these people who like jazz, and who want its influence to remain, and ask them why. Discussing it with other people who disagree with jazz's influence can only get you so far.

StealthRolex

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I would feel confident in saying that I'm not the only Christian who believes that this is a place to defend the faith, not grow in it.

Would this be because we have had to defend the faith here despite the Charter terms?

Article 1 needs to be enforced, not doctored.

Changing

1. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. This forum has the additional purpose of being a point on Boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith. In this regard, Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack.

to

1. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike.

Will make it worse, not better

Fanny Cradock

Enough with the jazz analogies!
:pac:

StealthRolex wrote: »

Would this be because we have had to defend the faith here despite the Charter terms?

Like I said, there is often a fine line between an opinion that is strongly expressed and somebody out to cause trouble. The former is interested in debate, the latter only wants their say.

StealthRolex wrote: »

Will make it worse, not better

I wasn't suggesting that anything should be changed. Rather, I was saying that the latter part is not possible with all the grenades being tossed around the place.

StealthRolex

prinz wrote: »

If people want to discuss why Christianity is nonsense ----> A&A forum IMO

+1

Is this a good thread for a rant? Off we go so...

I had some expectation that a forum flagged as Christian would at least the outwardly Christian friendly but when you spend most of your time dealing with erroroneous arguments and obfuscated semantic balderdash that passes for argument from homeless trolls and Christian bashers it becomes tiresome.

If a Christian wants to wander in to the A&A forum for a bit of maschochistic titillation so be it, however it would be appreciated if more non-Christian visitors to the Christian forum displayed a little respect. Christianity like all facets of humanity has its dark moments from time to to time and we get enough flak in the mainstream media. If anyone has a concern or question about Christian history and its rights or wrongs I'm sure many here would be happy to engage, clarify, learn or otherwise explore for the benefit of all. There are ways of presenting an argument or a grievance or a difference of opinion that are more convivial that the somewhat less than subtle attacks here.

One can certain get a sense of what it must have been like for Jesus in the days before His death, and for Christians in the years following. But then again the Bible did say we would be persecuted so if it must be it must be.

Of course we should be thicker skinned and treated this for what it is - a bunch of electrons flying around a network but the reality is, or I at least hope it is, that there are real people at the end of each terminal be they Christian, atheist or otherwise. It can sometimes be too easy to forget that.

Maybe the Charter needs updating or maybe more remedial Mod actions.

If someone wanders in and posts "God does not exist therefore..." they may suffer a mod action. Ok - it's in the Charter and action is expected.

If someone wanders in and posts " I give no credence ... until I see evidence" or similar such double-speak it is allowed, and allowed to soapbox. The meaning is the same but because it does not match something in the Charter it is passed fit. Am I in error for thinking this is unfair?

Rant mode off.

For those who don't like it here try this

It appears to work in US time so responses are not instant.

For those who are not of this persuasion there may be forums for the other flavours of Christianity like this one though it also includes Catholics for those who like the spice of ecumenism.

Ciao

StealthRolex

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting that anything should be changed. Rather, I was saying that the latter part is not possible with all the grenades being tossed around the place.

Fair enough. Too many bombs and not enough bullets.

Onesimus

Yeehaw, time for a.... ''reformation''? *tips hat* :P:pac:

strobe

*EDIT* Changed my opinion.

Festus

the way i see it there are only a couple of reasons for why an atheist might want to come here:

-they're curious and want an answer or a good philisophical debate

- they hate christians and want to cause trouble

- they're worried they might be wrong

other that that if an atheist really really doesn't believe in God why bother with a place thats full of believers?

maybe theyre evangelical atheists :pac::pac::pac:

Memnoch

I presume this is a thread for airing our views on the current charter.

I would like to see a forum on boards that would focus on discussion of christianity in all its facets.

As it stands, this forum is not it, because it is run from a Christian perspective and thus precludes open debate and inspection.

It would be better if there was a "Christian believer's," sub-forum, where the current charter could be applied, and perhaps even strengthened, so that those who don't want their beliefs questioned or debated can discuss in peace.

This whole, you can debate us, but only on our terms, smacks of hypocrisy, intolerance, self-delusion and wilful intellectual dishonesty.

The A&A forum serves a general purpose and is not specific for discussion of Christianity, and since Christianity is the biggest religion in Ireland and Europe, and has and continues to greatly impact upon believers and non-believers alike who live here, I'd say it merits an open discussion forum.

vodafoneproblem

I'm pretty new to this area of boards and it's vaguely amusing to me that Christianity and A&A interact as much as they do. The first idea about splitting things up that struck me is that A&A should be split up into two different sections. Namely, an Atheists' forum and an Agnostics' forum. It seems pretty obvious to me, given what I've seen. Maybe when that happens, other occasionally common forums or sub-forums might be more logical. Maybe or maybe not. I do think the Christianity forum works better, as a whole, than the A&A one does, as things stand.

Zombrex

prinz wrote: »

Again, isn't that what the A&A forum is for?

Not really. The A&A forum is for discussing atheism. The Christianity forum is for discussing Christianity. There will of course be over lap. The point is I think to have some where where people who aren't necessarily Christians can discuss Christianity including what they would see is negative aspects of with others, both Christian and non-Christian alike, without the regular Christian forum memebers feeling their forum is being hi-jacked from discussing issues that only effect other Christians (what socks would Jesus wear sort thing )

prinz wrote: »

You may as well go there and ask them to set up a sub forum for Christians/Religious who want to debate atheists/agnostics.

I would have little issue with someone setting up a sub-forum in A&A for discussion of A&A from the point of view of a believer, but generally there is less objection to these threads being started in the main forum than there is here so it would be some what unnecessary.

prinz wrote: »

I really have to wonder about the people who have no interest whatsoever in learning anything about Christianity yet feel compelled to post here anyway.

Fair enough, but that really doesn't have anything to do with my point

prinz

Wicknight wrote: »

Not really. The A&A forum is for discussing atheism.

*Ahem*

Stickies: The funny side of religion
: The ongoing religious scandals

Thread: Draw Mohammed Day.....

It seems there's more than enough room in A&A for people who want to have their say on what's wrong with religion, as opposed to discussing atheism. Coming here to tell religious people what is wrong with religion is just low level trolling.

Wicknight wrote: »

The Christianity forum is for discussing Christianity.

Yes it should be. I don't think any posters here have a problem with non-Christians posing questions, raising topics etc but it's the constant descent of almost every thread into some sort of points scoring debate, with accusations of ad hominems, strawmen flying back and forth etc etc etc. The content that I come here to read frequently gets lost in a muddle of rehashed arguments occuring over and over and over that is pulling the forum down IMO.

I didn't come here to learn the different logical fallacies and debating skills I came to learn about Christianity from people who know a lot more about it and Christian life than I do.

Wicknight wrote: »

I would have little issue with someone setting up a sub-forum in A&A for discussion of A&A from the point of view of a believer, but generally there is less objection to these threads being started in the main forum than there is here so it would be some what unnecessary.

If there's no objection over there then why can't it stay there? Why do people feel the need to it must also be accomodated here?

Prime example of what could have been an interesting thread dragged down..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65853363&postcount=5

Zombrex

prinz wrote: »

*Ahem*

Stickies: The funny side of religion
: The ongoing religious scandals

Thread: Draw Mohammed Day.....

It seems there's more than enough room in A&A for people who want to have their say on what's wrong with religion, as opposed to discussing atheism. Coming here to tell religious people what is wrong with religion is just low level trolling.

Oh come on, you know what I mean. It is a question of topic, rather than motivation or allegiance to community.

This is the problem, people think different forums are for them and people like them, rather than for discussion of topics.

So the idea becomes if you want to discuss Christianity but from the position of an atheist you do it in the atheism forum not the Christianity forum because you are an atheist not a Christian.

That ultimately becomes unworkable from a management point of view. If I want to discuss politics but I'm an atheist do I do that in the atheist form or the politics forum? If I want to discuss broadband but I'm in Dublin do I do that in the broadband forum or the Dublin forum?

Discussion boards start to fall apart if they move away from the issue of topics and into the idea of communities. You end up with multiple copies of topics in these communities and they become silos.

The A&A forum is for the discussion of atheism. That includes problems with religion (and problems with atheism), but I've no objection to the idea that people are incorrectly discussing topics in A&A that should belong in the forum of that religion. I agree 100% with that verdict and I think ultimately something should be done. A&A forum itself is not a perfect example of how to run a forum

Often they can't discuss them there of course because of various charter restrictions. A lot of discussion of Islam in A&A should be in the Islam forum because it is about Islam but it can't be because of the strict policies of the Islam forum.

That is, in my view, another reason for these types of sub-forums.

prinz

Wicknight wrote: »

That ultimately becomes unworkable from a management point of view. If I want to discuss politics but I'm an atheist do I do that in the atheist form or the politics forum? If I want to discuss broadband but I'm in Dublin do I do that in the broadband forum or the Dublin forum?

You know quite well that it's completely different from discussing broadband or politics. You can quite easily post in either of those examples without an agenda of trying to bring every thread down to a politics v. atheism issue for example. If people want to discuss politics that's one thing. If you were more interested in discussing your atheism and how that makes you view political life, politicians etc I am sure you would be asked to take it to the appropriate forum. The same applies here IMO. If people are more interested in discussing why they don't believe in Christianity and don't agree with Christians... then take it elsewhere.

Zombrex

prinz wrote: »

If you were more interested in discussing your atheism and how that makes you view political life, politicians etc I am sure you would be asked to take it to the appropriate forum. The same applies here IMO. If people are more interested in discussing why they don't believe in Christianity and don't agree with Christians... then take it elsewhere.

I agree with the first bit, but the idea that discussing issues or problems with Christianity is not a topic for Christianity forum is just silly. Problems with Christianity is a topic about Christianity.

If you want to discuss why you are an atheist by all means the person should take it to the atheism forum. If they want to reference Christianity in that but still have the main topic about atheism, A&A forum for that.

But if an atheist wants to discuss something about Christianity, even from the position of an atheist, then the Christianity forum is where it should be discussed.

For example the discussion about clerical abuse is something a lot of non-Christians are interested in and wish to discuss. It has nothing to with atheism, it is a Christianity topic, and as such should be discussed in Christianity forum even if such a discussion offends some Christians.

You do not have to be a Christian to discuss Christianity, nor should a non-Christian discuss Christianity in a different forum, that makes little sense.

The issue is the topic. Who is posting the topic is some what irrelevant to where the thread should be. If the topic mainly concerns Christianity the topic should be in the Christianity forum, even if it is posted by an atheist or a Jew or a Muslim and the person is looking for view points from non-believers. Again who posts is irrelevant, the relevant issue is (or should be in my opinion) the topic of the discussion.

mdebets

prinz wrote: »

*Yes it should be. I don't think any posters here have a problem with non-Christians posing questions, raising topics etc but it's the constant descent of almost every thread into some sort of points scoring debate, with accusations of ad hominems, strawmen flying back and forth etc etc etc. The content that I come here to read frequently gets lost in a muddle of rehashed arguments occuring over and over and over that is pulling the forum down IMO.


I didn't come here to learn the different logical fallacies and debating skills I came to learn about Christianity from people who know a lot more about it and Christian life than I do.

But you even with a pure Christian forum, you would have both, as long as you have one Christian forum, and not several sub-foren per denomination.
Or would you ban a Protestant, because he wants to show a Catholic the logical fallacies of Papal infalability? Or a Catholic because he questions a Protestant why they don't believe in Apostolic Succession?

I think to be shown different logical fallacies of your faith is an important part of growing it. It gives you the possibility to reflect on it, find out why it is or isn't a fallaciy and grow your faith.

The problem of this is off course that such discussions hardly lead to people changing their mind in their core beliefs, so they tend to regularly go into heated debates, but I don't think a ourely Christian forum might change that. Only strict moderation will do this.