Delivering and developing FETAC modules

Lollymcd

Now that there is a forum for FETAC on boards I don't feel so alone anymore!

I deliver several modules and I am the only one in my centre who does so. I get little opportunity to discuss modules, delivery methods or work sheets with others doing the same subjects as I am. I would like to propose this thread as a place to swap, share and learn from each other.

What do you all think?

In the past five years I have worked on the following and would be willing to discuss/swap/chat etc...

Level 3
Communications
Preparation for Work
Consumer Awareness
Food and Nutrition
Personal Care and Presentation

Level 4
Communications
Personal and Interpersonal Skills
Personal Effectiveness

Looking forward to hearing from anyone!

ruskey!

as someone who has been attending FETAC modules - i have found it very frustrating that many are delivered over 20 x 2hr classes at night when they could clearly be done in half that time - and i also question how a number of modules have been offered in one cfe / vec college as a 20 x 2hr classes course, when the exact same award is offered in another cfe / vec college with attendance at 10 x 2hr classes required. - all of these in the greater dublin area.

Lollymcd

I suppose it's up to each centre to decide how long they want to spend on each module, at the end of the day choose one that would suit your learning style/speed. Everyone is different. In my centre it can take people 20-110 weeks to complete some of my courses, everyone works at different speeds! Not sure if this helps!

looksee

There is supposed to be a specific amount of contact time for a fetac module. The other thing is that the modules are supposed to provide a learning experience, rather than dashed through just to complete them.

In some classes you would have people who would have difficulty completing the course in the time allotted, while others could easily do it, but I encourage the quicker ones to go into more depth and detail in search of a distinction rather than a basic pass.

Also if you are doing them singly it is easy enough to keep up with the work, but in a situation where a student is doing the 8 modules at the same time there is a lot more pressure.

Vinoveritas

Lollymcd wrote: »

I get little opportunity to discuss modules, delivery methods or work sheets with others doing the same subjects as I am.....Looking forward to hearing from anyone!

Hi Lollymcd,
like you I am glad to get the opportunity to discuss FETAC related matter. For what it is worth our FETAC centre tends to allocate 80 hours for core modules at FETAC Level 3 as it it widely held that plenty of time is needed to build core skills & competencies. However, this can be shortened if we have a strong group of learners. In general we always allow 60- 80 hours for modules at Level 3.

Again at Level 4 we tend to offer an average of 60 hours (maximum of 80) to the core modules i.e. communications; maths and PIS/PE. However, other modules such as Computer Literacy can be delivered in as little as 20 hours!!

The beauty of the FETAC system is that each class can be tailored to suit the needs of the specific group of learners. Therefore we always build in some flexibility with relation to finish dates. We finish earlier if the group are able; and slow it down if we need to.

Generally learners at Level 3 and 4 don't have an issue with this system - they are working at this level in general because they are early school leavers (exceptions tend to be ICT and Art/Craft modules); and the additional time is needed to help them become confident, competent learners.

However, learners at Level 5 are working at a higher level of skills and competence, and are therefore better placed to interrogate and examine what is happening across the sector i.e. colleagues/friends achieving the same results as them in half the time (and with what appears to be half the effort)! It must be argued that learners taking modules that are delivered over a very intensive time frame are:
a) being cheated of the opportunity to disseminate the material being studied
b) being robbed of the opportunity to build the necessary competencies that are needed within the workplace and/or higher education
c) generally being offered a second rate experience

And finally, whilst there is nothing worse than dragging our a module for the sake of filling time, this additional time can be used for class outings; guest speakers; taster sessions for other modules etc.

Good luck with the work

rainbowtrout

ruskey! wrote: »

as someone who has been attending FETAC modules - i have found it very frustrating that many are delivered over 20 x 2hr classes at night when they could clearly be done in half that time - and i also question how a number of modules have been offered in one cfe / vec college as a 20 x 2hr classes course, when the exact same award is offered in another cfe / vec college with attendance at 10 x 2hr classes required. - all of these in the greater dublin area.

It can also depend on a number of other factors not listed above. We only got data projectors in my centre last year. So i was teaching a lot of computing modules through handouts/whiteboard/overhead projector. It's so much easier for a student to understand what it is you want them to do on the computer when they can see it up on the screen. I found that I was getting through material much faster this year than previously simply because I had the use of a data projector. Silly I know.

Also in my centre we don't assume any student has a computer/broadband, they have all their project time built into class time so there's no need to do much work at home. Maybe not all centres operate like this.

The location of a PLC centre can perhaps affect how much time is given to a module as well. In some places centres may get a lot of students in who have just come straight from Leaving Cert and know their way around the computer quite well and can get stuck in quite fast where others may have an older demographic of people who have little or no computer experience/out of education for a long time/little or no educational qualifications and it takes that bit longer to do things.

rainbowtrout

Lollymcd wrote: »

Now that there is a forum for FETAC on boards I don't feel so alone anymore!


In the past five years I have worked on the following and would be willing to discuss/swap/chat etc...


Looking forward to hearing from anyone!

Unfortunately I don't teach any of your modules Lollymcd but I too would be in a similar situation. Small PLC centre within a school. 2 main teachers and the odd teacher who gets put teaching a module for a year every now and again.

I teach/have taught

Level 5:

Spreadsheets
Databases
The Internet
Web Authoring
Word Processing
Text Production
Information and Communication Systems
Work Experience
Presentation Methods
Presentation Software
Mathematics
Computer Programming
Computer Architecture and Systems

Level 4:

Information Technology Skills
Computer Applications

irishnic

hi can someone help me where can i study carer assistant for nursing homes in fetac level 5 in the evenings dont want to go through vtos or fas as im working.. would be grateful for info off anyone please

Lollymcd

irishnic wrote: »

hi can someone help me where can i study carer assistant for nursing homes in fetac level 5 in the evenings dont want to go through vtos or fas as im working.. would be grateful for info off anyone please

Hi irishnic

This is really a forum for people who are delivering and developing modules to seek assistance from people doing similar. Regardless, if someone could answer your question I'm sure they will be more than happy to, they'll just need to know what city/town/county you would like to study in. (I can only comment on Dublin) Maybe you would be willing to relocate?

It might also be worth starting a new thread with your question and calling it "Where can I find a course on...." I'm sure there are a lot of people in a similar situation as yourself.

Best of luck!!!

Lollymcd

Vinoveritas wrote: »

Hi Lollymcd,
like you I am glad to get the opportunity to discuss FETAC related matter.

The beauty of the FETAC system is that each class can be tailored to suit the needs of the specific group of learners. Therefore we always build in some flexibility with relation to finish dates. We finish earlier if the group are able; and slow it down if we need to.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't teach any of your modules Lollymcd but I too would be in a similar situation. Small PLC centre within a school. 2 main teachers and the odd teacher who gets put teaching a module for a year every now and again.

Hi Vinoveritas and rainbowtrout and everyone else who has replied

Thanks for taking the time to reply to the forum. A few questions of mine have already been answered, thank you!!!

I'm working in a centre where a lot of the learners have special needs so they are given as much time as possible to complete their portfolios. It's good to know what is realistic though if I ever get a learner that works at a faster rate.

If anyone ever wants to discuss the modules I teach (listed above) feel free to PM me!

Vinoveritas

irishnic wrote: »

hi can someone help me where can i study carer assistant for nursing homes in fetac level 5 in the evenings dont want to go through vtos or fas as im working.. would be grateful for info off anyone please

Healthcare Support @ FETAC Level 5 is available on a part-time basis through the Back to Education Initiative in most VECs' (free of charge if you are eligible) and through a variety of Private Providers (expensive).

You are eligible to participate on the BTEI if you have less than leaving certificate standard of education (< 5 Ds in Leaving) and/or if you hold any Social Welfare Payment and/or if you hold a current Medical Card.

If you are not BTEI eligible than you will have to source the course through a private provider.

Many BTEI programmes run programmes during the day/evening - all classes are timetabled in such a way that learners can work their attendance around work/family commitments i.e. our local VEC offers the programme one day per week over the academic year. Learners get the opportunity to complete the full award within two academic years.

Check out the national learners database www.qualifax.ie for further information and links to the various course options.

Postgrad10

Hi everyone,
I hope you don't mind me posting here. I have a friend who is registering as a FAS trainer. If anyone has any experience of this, how long should this process take and what happens next?
Thank you

FETAC Trainer

Hi Lollymcd,

Excellent idea for a link.

I teach 9 FETAC level 4 modules and ham having a lot of trouble getting my head around constructing a brief for:

Personal Effectiveness: Unit 3 Interpersonal Skills - all SLO's
&
Communications: Unit 6 Media Awareness - All SLO's

I work with people delivering FETAC levels 3 - 5 so if you have any helpful assistance with these two units please let me know and i would be more than happy to help you with any other FETAC briefs you may need help with.

Thanks and regards

Cormac.

Lollymcd wrote: »

Now that there is a forum for FETAC on boards I don't feel so alone anymore!

I deliver several modules and I am the only one in my centre who does so. I get little opportunity to discuss modules, delivery methods or work sheets with others doing the same subjects as I am. I would like to propose this thread as a place to swap, share and learn from each other.

What do you all think?

In the past five years I have worked on the following and would be willing to discuss/swap/chat etc...

Level 3
Communications
Preparation for Work
Consumer Awareness
Food and Nutrition
Personal Care and Presentation

Level 4
Communications
Personal and Interpersonal Skills
Personal Effectiveness

Looking forward to hearing from anyone!

looksee

Has anyone else had problems with the Fetac website? My most usual reason for going on there is to get copies of modules, but on the old site you could get them quite easily, on the new updated website they are hidden away.

It seems to me you find them by going to Fetac.ie,
then Directory of Fetac awards,
then awards by NFQ level,
then (for example) Level 5,
then choose the area (say Art craft and media)
then the certificate name, say Art Craft and Design,
then scroll down and find the module you require, say, Drawing.
Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will find 'Award Specifications' - English, click on that and tadaaaa there is your module.

If you know the module code you can put it in the search box at the start, but you still need to know that you click on English to get the module.

There is a great deal on the Fetac site about the wonderfulness of Fetac, their quality control, all sorts of stuff about strategic plans and learner charters, but while they have been doing all this they have not looked at the most important area, the modules. Any one who teaches Fetac will know what I mean, how much longer are they going to wait before revising the modules.

boatbuilder

Theres already an online forum for people to swap fetac stuff..... www.fetacresources.com

Yes, fetac has changed their website and its a total pain to navigate.
I was at a Fetac briefing recently and apparently they are re-doing all the module descriptors at the moment and the whole process of consultation has been slowed down by industrial action and discussions between Fetac/FAS/Vecs about who should pay for it. You'll notice that there are new modules available now. All of the FAS and VEC modules are available. Previously FAS had their own "exclusive" modules that no one else was allowed to use, but the plan is that everyone (including private providers) will be able to deliver any of the courses.

Many of the descriptors date from 1997 at the moment so they need to get their fingers out.

FETAC Trainer

Hi Vinoveritas,

No luck back yet from Lollymcd,

I teach 9 FETAC level 4 modules and ham having a lot of trouble getting my head around constructing a brief for:

Personal Effectiveness: Unit 3 Interpersonal Skills - all SLO's
&
Communications: Unit 6 Media Awareness - All SLO's

I work with people delivering FETAC levels 3 - 5 so if you have any helpful assistance with these two units please let me know and i would be more than happy to help you with any other FETAC briefs you may need help with.

Thanks and regards

Cormac.

Vinoveritas wrote: »

Hi Lollymcd,
like you I am glad to get the opportunity to discuss FETAC related matter. For what it is worth our FETAC centre tends to allocate 80 hours for core modules at FETAC Level 3 as it it widely held that plenty of time is needed to build core skills & competencies. However, this can be shortened if we have a strong group of learners. In general we always allow 60- 80 hours for modules at Level 3.

Again at Level 4 we tend to offer an average of 60 hours (maximum of 80) to the core modules i.e. communications; maths and PIS/PE. However, other modules such as Computer Literacy can be delivered in as little as 20 hours!!

The beauty of the FETAC system is that each class can be tailored to suit the needs of the specific group of learners. Therefore we always build in some flexibility with relation to finish dates. We finish earlier if the group are able; and slow it down if we need to.

Generally learners at Level 3 and 4 don't have an issue with this system - they are working at this level in general because they are early school leavers (exceptions tend to be ICT and Art/Craft modules); and the additional time is needed to help them become confident, competent learners.

However, learners at Level 5 are working at a higher level of skills and competence, and are therefore better placed to interrogate and examine what is happening across the sector i.e. colleagues/friends achieving the same results as them in half the time (and with what appears to be half the effort)! It must be argued that learners taking modules that are delivered over a very intensive time frame are:
a) being cheated of the opportunity to disseminate the material being studied
b) being robbed of the opportunity to build the necessary competencies that are needed within the workplace and/or higher education
c) generally being offered a second rate experience

And finally, whilst there is nothing worse than dragging our a module for the sake of filling time, this additional time can be used for class outings; guest speakers; taster sessions for other modules etc.

Good luck with the work

looksee

Thanks for that link boatbuilder. I know there is some work being done on modules, but I have an idea they are not proposing to significantly change any of the existing modules. Some of the material especially in computer based modules is so far out of date it is becoming difficult to teach.

Vinoveritas

Dear FETAC Trainer,
I would recommend posting your request on www.fetacresources.com and also checking out the Further Education Support Services website on www.fess.ie
Whilst the FESS site is only aimed at DES funded programmes - it is still a useful place to get information/ideas from.

If you are tutoring on DES funded programme you can contact the FESS directly for support.

Cheers
V V

FETAC Trainer

Hi Vinoveritas,

Have tried both without any success. If you come across any ideas for these two sections I would be very grateful.

Thanks for the ideas !

Cheeers !

FETAC Trainer

Vinoveritas wrote: »

Dear FETAC Trainer,
I would recommend posting your request on www.fetacresources.com and also checking out the Further Education Support Services website on www.fess.ie
Whilst the FESS site is only aimed at DES funded programmes - it is still a useful place to get information/ideas from.

If you are tutoring on DES funded programme you can contact the FESS directly for support.

Cheers
V V

shindon

Lollymcd wrote: »

Now that there is a forum for FETAC on boards I don't feel so alone anymore!

I deliver several modules and I am the only one in my centre who does so. I get little opportunity to discuss modules, delivery methods or work sheets with others doing the same subjects as I am. I would like to propose this thread as a place to swap, share and learn from each other.

What do you all think?

In the past five years I have worked on the following and would be willing to discuss/swap/chat etc...

Level 3
Communications
Preparation for Work
Consumer Awareness
Food and Nutrition
Personal Care and Presentation

Level 4
Communications
Personal and Interpersonal Skills
Personal Effectiveness

Looking forward to hearing from anyone!

I teach a fair few modules to include event production,communications work experience health and safety at work would be delighted to discuss or help out shindon

FETAC Trainer

Hi Shindon,

I would be very grateful if you could send me any details you have on:-

FETAC 4 Communications: Unit 6 Media Awareness
&
FETAC 4 Personal Effectivesness: Unit 3 Interpersonal Skills

If you need any details on any other units please let me know and if I do not have them, I will try and get them for you.

Many thanks !

FETAC in need !

shindon wrote: »

I teach a fair few modules to include event production,communications work experience health and safety at work would be delighted to discuss or help out shindon

snooks x

Hi all

i am starting tutoring a community arts course fetal level 5 on monday morning and i am freaking out. i have a degree in business studies but that was almost 10 years ago and ive been unemployed for the last 2 years....i was just very lucky to get this job. but im having trouble thinking of ways to make this course interesting for them....it is a rehabilitative course for people who had or are still suffering mildly from mental illness.

my modules are community arts practice, marketing for the arts sector, communications, teamworking and event production.

any ideas for briefs even would be greatly welcomed.at the minute i think im in way over my head as ive never tutored before.pilot course so have to design all the content myself....its all very daunting!

looksee

Snooks, its not surprising you are freaking out, I have just checked the community arts practise module and its more like an art subject than a business subject, I didn't look at the others, you know yourself what a long job it can be to start to sort modules.

I teach somewhat similar subjects to these, but its difficult to give you advice without knowing what facilities you have and what materials you will have. I could give you some pointers (I was thrown in the deep end just like you, but about 6 years ago ) but there is no point without knowing your set up, how you have to integrate with other subjects, how long you have to do the course, what facilities you have etc.

If you would like to PM me I might be able to have a discussion with you and see if we can come up with some ideas.

Otherwise, give a bit more information and an indication of what progress you have made and we can take it from there. Have you decided for example what kind of practical art work you intend to do, something like papier mache masks might be appropriate, especially if there is any dance in the course. And it has the advantage of being extremely cheap.

Bally8

Im wondering if anyone else delivers this module? I started delivering it for the first time this year and I am starting to think I have misunderstood the module descripter. So far I have had a number of lovely classes looking at cultural differences in general across the world etc. My students and I then picked Italy as the country to focus on for the project and assignment. My reading of the guidelines lead me to believe this was the way to go.

However I recently met a tutor from another centre who presented for assessment in May and the external examiner said that she was wrong to have all her students study the same country- that each student should have picked a different country.

Im very worried over this as I do not know how to get my students through this if they are all working on different countries. They are not capeable of independent research and I worry that the class would become a research skills class not cultural studies.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me please?

rainbowtrout

Bally8 wrote: »

Im wondering if anyone else delivers this module? I started delivering it for the first time this year and I am starting to think I have misunderstood the module descripter. So far I have had a number of lovely classes looking at cultural differences in general across the world etc. My students and I then picked Italy as the country to focus on for the project and assignment. My reading of the guidelines lead me to believe this was the way to go.

However I recently met a tutor from another centre who presented for assessment in May and the external examiner said that she was wrong to have all her students study the same country- that each student should have picked a different country.

Im very worried over this as I do not know how to get my students through this if they are all working on different countries. They are not capeable of independent research and I worry that the class would become a research skills class not cultural studies.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me please?

I don't teach that module but I just had a look at the descriptor and it doesn't say anywhere that you can't use one country or that each student must study a different country. However in the marking sheet in the Project section , under Content marks are awarded for 'theme chosen and justified appropriately' and this may be the point the extern is making. If they were all told to study Italy what are they going to write for this part 'my tutor told me to do Italy'?


It doesn't sound like you are very far into the course. When will you be presenting for assessment? I'm not criticizing you but if the students are incapable of independent research how are they going to do the project on Italy? Personally I would have them do individual projects as otherwise you'll probably end up with all of them being the same. Research skills is as much of any course as the content. It does mention research under the Project brief section.

I wouldn't see anything wrong with giving the class a brief telling them to research the country of their choice, giving them a specific list of items (taken from the learning objectives - food, national holidays, language, geography, newspapers, tv stations etc) that must be in the project and letting them research it online. Do they have internet access?

looksee

Sometimes you have to shed your own light on Fetac modules, as they are not always entirely clear. This is one of them.

Hints that you can study one country/cultural community - 'this module is suitable for integration with language studies' or words to that effect. Well the students are not going to be studying 20 different languages, so it appears that if they are studying Spanish the Cultural studies could be about Spain.

Throughout they refer to country/cultural community in the singular, nowhere do they refer to 'the student's chosen country' or similar.

However on the mark sheet they do require a justification of the selected theme, I have this issue with the same point in another module, since I am setting the theme I give minimum marks for the selection (just mark the justification) and spread the marks into the other areas. It does not require you to give 10 marks per bullet point, just 30 between the three. So long as you have a marking scheme this should be ok.

· theme chosen and justified appropriately
· living/learning/working comprehensively described for both
countries/cultural communities
· similarities and differences clearly outlined, key issues
identified

The other two points are a bit ambiguous, does 'both countries' mean the chosen one and another one (presumably Ireland) or does it mean both countries and cultural comunities. Reading the SLOs it appears that it does mean compared with Ireland, but as is often the case, the SLOs do not relate directly to the marking scheme, so you have to decide what angle you are going to take and write briefs to suit.

If the extern complains about the interpretation, ask her/him to show you where in the module descriptor it says everyone should do a different country.

None of this should make any difference to the marking as far as the students are concerned, and most Externs are open to discussion. Not all of them, true, but mostly

Bally8

Thanks for the very helpful responses guys. Im lucky in that I have only been delivering the module for a few weeks now and they are not being put forward for assessment until next May. If I have to change my approach I have plenty time to sort it all out. I would just love to know for sure what way they would like it to be delivered.

I emailed FETAC this afternoon and was given the number of a support officer to ask about it. I will ring him tomorrow and see what he says.

Thanks again for the considered responses

Bally8

Bally8 wrote: »

Thanks for the very helpful responses guys. Im lucky in that I have only been delivering the module for a few weeks now and they are not being put forward for assessment until next May. If I have to change my approach I have plenty time to sort it all out. I would just love to know for sure what way they would like it to be delivered.

I emailed FETAC this afternoon and was given the number of a support officer to ask about it. I will ring him tomorrow and see what he says.

Thanks again for the considered responses

The support officer is on holidays until the end of August so no clarity for me until then:). Sometimes I find FETAC so frustrating!

looksee

Only sometimes?

Cat Melodeon

Quick question - have all you FETAC trainers done the 'train the trainer' course? I've done tutoring/occasional lecturing at university and learning support in schools and PLC colleges - just wondering how useful/important this course is?

looksee

I have done it. Since I do not have a teaching qualification I found it quite useful. On the whole it didn't tell me a great deal that I hadn't figured out over 5 years of teaching, but it consolidated the information, made me aware of how my teaching is/should be structured and gave me some background to the theory of teaching. On balance I would say do it, I found it helpful.