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Anti Women
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People joke about this kind of stuff all the time. A woman gets annoyed about it, says so, and we all know how quickly it turns into "Sure it was just a joke, relax, jeez!" like it's the woman's problem for taking issue with a comment.
It would be a real joke if it were the case that people didn't actually believe a lot of this stuff. Way too many people still do, men and women, and until that's not the case, I think women have every right to tell people to cop themselves on if they think it's ok to joke about it.0 -
I agree with Western night.
Other men are afraid to not laugh at sexist jokes etc as they would be shunned by the lads or perhaps they find them funny. the thing about jokes are though is that there is always a grain of truth in them. What would be the point of them otherwise. But women also are to blame in that they don't challenge these jokes/sites etc when they come across them because they don't want men to disapprove. So its a win -win for men. they can say what they like and then say "it was joke". They set the rules and women (some not all) try to please them. Why is it ok to have anti-woman sites on fb but not anti black, gay etc. Because people know that it will be tolerated by men and women (trying to please men by being all "liberated".) Its sick and pathetic. I stood up to sexism when I saw it in my last job. Ended up not being supported by either men or women and people made comments that I had no sense of humour. When I was going to an interview my boss who was female told me to wear a low cut top as it would increase my chances! Its heartening to hear from some decent men here who obviosuly see that misogny for what it is. Misogny hurts men also now women - forces men into that masculine steroetype that discourages feminine attributes (talking about feelings etc). I don't think we have come far in terms of gender equality. I think it has been forced on society in terms of equal opportunities etc so men go underground to vent their hatred of women so called promotion. We were probaly better off in the 1950s!0 -
That type of stuff isn't on. But you're kidding yourself if you think that men aren't discriminated against, or that there aren't double standards.irishh_bob wrote:theese ( disgusting ) derogrotory comments are coming from fringe media , when it comes to mainstream media , it is men who are subject to sexism the vast majority of the time , as another poster has pointed out , in advertising on tv or radio , men are potrayed as moronic ( homer simpsons like ) and infantile and usually incapable of opening a can of beansThese joke and emails are just as common in relation to men. I often get emails about our stupidity and uselessness. But I think that this kind of comedy helps to break barriers and perceptions. It usually highlights how ridiculous these kinds of sexist views are.
No. They're not just as common. Sorry.
1) Nobody is saying men aren't discriminated against on a lot of things. What I am saying is that there is no equivalent on such an absolutely massive scale for men as what's going on here. There just isn't.
2) This is a very specific type of discrimination. This isn't a debate about men's rights with their children or about how men are portrayed in television ads or whatever else. This is about what ultimately amounts to (indirect in the cases of the facebook pages) internet bullying that's seeped into the mainstream.
You can bring up ads and things like that, but it's completely, wholly groundless-- those ads you're referencing that are placing men as useless idiots are the exact same ads stereotyping women as being the ones who should do the childcare, laundry, dishes, etc. And what about the fecking Lynx ads? Ads do not belong in a responsible debate. At all. Ever. They're sexist to both genders in equal amounts. This? This is not.
This is a list of some of the more common facebook groups displaying sexism towards women. Please note that there ARE a lot of "equivalent" groups targeting men, but that they were only created after the flood of the original anti-women pages-- as retaliation from the irked females. Childish, yes, but not quite the same thing.
This is just Facebook. Facebook is pretty well-censored, for the record. Word for word.
-The New Apple Device for Women - The iRon
-Why do women buy watches when there's a clock on the oven?
-FACT!! All women are mental..
-The awkward feeling you get when a woman enters a room without a sandwich
-You can bate the wife but you can't bate the craic
-If shawty can't take a dick she best be able to make me a sandwich
-'if i were a boy'... well your not and i dont see my dinner on the table!!
-Women are instantly more attractive when they shut up and make sandwiches
-I laugh at women that work at Subway cuz they HAVE to make me a sandwich
-Women only have orgasms because it's another chance for them to moan.
-OMG It's the WOMEN'S EDITION OF CoD!!! (CoD = a videogame called Call of Duty, page features a picture of an iron)
-Women cant drive? Its okay, theres no road between the kitchen and bedroom
-My mind was blown when i realised "Women" spelt backwards is "Kitchen"
-Why is Alice in wonderland? She should be in the fu*king kitchen.
-Girls have no reason to moan about COD. Can't even see it from the kitchen.
-Girls only fancy Cook (a character from the TV show 'Skins') because he reminds them of the kitchen.
-Hey baby, here have a turn on COD... LOL jk, go back to the kitchen
-girls think giving birth is hard, try playing COD on a laggy connection.
-Girls should make the first move, and that first move should be a sandwich.
As you can see, these are all bastions of hilarity and originality. Clearly women should never get tired of seeing or hearing things like that.
On websites like Digg (massive user-generated news website), the exact same shít is regurgitated on any article at all that involves women/a woman. And dugg up into oblivion (digg equivalent of boards' thanks).
Example:
http://digg.com/people/What_10_000_Women_Really_Think
First few comments:They all lied about their parallel parking skills
+1179 diggs.blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah... blah...
+858 diggs.They can think whatever they want, as long as they are doing their thinking in the kitchen.
+832 diggs.
During my more active competitive gaming days, this was the kind of stuff I had regurgitated at me multiple times a day, every single day. Except this is the censored version. Generally what I would hear would be a lot more crass, vulgar, demeaning. Everything about me would be criticized-- how I looked, how I sounded, how I played. If I played well, I apparently had a guy playing for me or was cheating. I was constantly called ugly, bitch, whore, slut, idiot. Told that if I put a bag over my head and shut up I'd be okay for a lay. Any time I had an opinion on a topic that was against the grain, I was being irrational and told to go back to the kitchen. Any time I spoke with any emotion about anything, I was PMSing and again, was told to go back to the kitchen. If I posted anything, anything at all, I was branded an attention whore. If I posted my picture in a "know your nerds" style thread, at the same rate as any other male, I was branded an attention whore. If I had a group of male friends hanging out in ventrilo (voice communication program), I was accused of flirting or again, attention whoring. Sure I've even had them take photos off my facebook and photoshop dicks onto my face or in my mouth.
Most people saying these things were males who were generally 18+. In fact, the younger ones were often more polite.
Now please try and tell me men experience this exact same thing to this all-encompassing, everywhere-you-look level online. It just doesn't exist. It's absolutely rampant here on boards, go look for yourself. Don't use this thread to soapbox about men's rights because you're butthurt that we're sick of these "jokes."0 -
Liah,
+ 1
you go girl!!!
Does complaining to FB help btw?0 -
No. They're not just as common. Sorry.
1) Nobody is saying men aren't discriminated against on a lot of things. What I am saying is that there is no equivalent on such an absolutely massive scale for men as what's going on here. There just isn't.
There is. Women against women. It just isn't as in your face but is far more pervasive on a subconscious level.0 -
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Hmmm, I'm not sure if there are very many men - or women - who are really anti-women.
There is a really, really, really fine line between ironic and stereotypical humour and crossing the boundary and sounding seriously misogynistic, sexist and demeaning and I think a lot of people just don't have the ability to decipher where the boundary is, often either because of the large chip they carry on their shoulder because of real life dealings with women and others who have only been close to a real woman when their mammy cuddles them.
I seriously don't think there is malice involved, for the most part. I think it's driven mostly by ignorance and a significant lack of EQ and that's why folks get so defensive when they are pulled up for crossing the line, they're embarrassed. I think there are a lot of posters aiming for the funny, socially aware comments who miss by a country mile and just come across as childish, churlish and rather inexperienced. I wouldn't let it bother you.0 -
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Ickle Magoo wrote: »Hmmm, I'm not sure if there are very many men - or women - who are really anti-women.
It's no so much ant-women/anti-men but the creation of an image of what they should aspire to do/to be. As someone said earlier all this macho male nonsense is a tongue in cheek (for the most part) response to other people who take things to an opposite extreme IMO.0 -
It's no so much ant-women/anti-men but the creation of an image of what they should aspire to do/to be. As someone said earlier all this macho male nonsense is a tongue in cheek (for the most part) response to other people who take things to an opposite extreme IMO.
I was answering the OP re men being anti-women.0 -
"massive scale for men". Not women against other women.
The point is that it exists, just far more cleverly, and it also needs to be addressed. Often times it's the very people who will lash out at idiotic things like those fb groups who will simultaneously have a blind spot when it comes to other forms of gender conditioning.0 -
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The point is that it exists, just far more cleverly, and it also needs to be addressed. Often times it's the very people who will lash out at idiotic things like those fb groups who will simultaneously have a blind spot when it comes to other forms of gender conditioning.
This thread isn't about that though. It's specifically about sexist comments from men towards women over the medium of the internet and how it's becoming more prevalent in face-to-face situations. I'm not arguing that what you mentioned was an issue-- it is, trust me, a very major one that I have a lot of time for-- but it's not one being covered here.
To the OP/Mods: I apologize. I know I'm kind of hijacking this thread but this is something that has been bothering me since I started gaming back in 2000. That's ten years of it. I need to blow off a little steam, and hopefully make some potential readers realize that this shít just is not funny or big or clever anymore and that these comments can be incredibly hurtful and upsetting.0 -
-The New Apple Device for Women - The iRon
-Why do women buy watches when there's a clock on the oven?
-FACT!! All women are mental..
-The awkward feeling you get when a woman enters a room without a sandwich
-You can bate the wife but you can't bate the craic
-If shawty can't take a dick she best be able to make me a sandwich
-'if i were a boy'... well your not and i dont see my dinner on the table!!
-Women are instantly more attractive when they shut up and make sandwiches
-I laugh at women that work at Subway cuz they HAVE to make me a sandwich
-Women only have orgasms because it's another chance for them to moan.
-OMG It's the WOMEN'S EDITION OF CoD!!! (CoD = a videogame called Call of Duty, page features a picture of an iron)
-Women cant drive? Its okay, theres no road between the kitchen and bedroom
-My mind was blown when i realised "Women" spelt backwards is "Kitchen"
-Why is Alice in wonderland? She should be in the fu*king kitchen.
-Girls have no reason to moan about COD. Can't even see it from the kitchen.
-Girls only fancy Cook (a character from the TV show 'Skins') because he reminds them of the kitchen.
-Hey baby, here have a turn on COD... LOL jk, go back to the kitchen
-girls think giving birth is hard, try playing COD on a laggy connection.
-Girls should make the first move, and that first move should be a sandwich.
The ones in bold are the ones I'd take most offense to. Whatever about the kitchen references, I have absolutely no time for anyone who jokes about beating women or treating them as if their sole purpose is to provide sex.
I never really experienced a whole lot of discrimination while gaming. Everyone used to assume everyone else was male though, and were all "you're a girl??" if ever I mentioned it. There were actually loads of women playing so I'm not sure how it was always such a shock. I never played CoD though.0 -
WesternNight wrote: »The ones in bold are the ones I'd take most offense to. Whatever about the kitchen references, I have absolutely no time for anyone who jokes about beating women or treating them as if their sole purpose is to provide sex.
I never really experienced a whole lot of discrimination while gaming. Everyone used to assume everyone else was male though, and were all "you're a girl??" if ever I mentioned it. There were actually loads of women playing so I'm not sure how it was always such a shock. I never played CoD though.
You play MMOs so? WoW, Guild Wars, etc.?
Girls tend to be fairly widely accepted these days in MMOs. I am genuinely curious as to what kind of gaming you're into now, because with competitive FPS, not so much on the acceptance thing, particularly because of stupid organizations who use all-female teams for promotion. These girls can't game, they do absolutely nothing other than sit there and look as sexy as possible. All it does is reinforce the stereotype that girls who game only do it for attention and should only be judged on how they look rather than how well they play.
EDIT: tues1, no. Reporting to Facebook will do nothing. Report racist, homophobic, anti-religious content and it gets removed within the day, or at least within the week. But you can write any kind of crap about genders and nothing will ever be done.0 -
You play MMOs so? WoW, Guild Wars, etc.?
Girls tend to be fairly widely accepted these days in MMOs. I am genuinely curious as to what kind of gaming you're into now, because with competitive FPS, not so much on the acceptance thing, particularly because of stupid organizations who use all-female teams for promotion. These girls can't game, they do absolutely nothing other than sit there and look as sexy as possible. All it does is reinforce the stereotype that girls who game only do it for attention and should only be judged on how they look rather than how well they play.
Used to play WoW. Not anymore though so I'm not sure what it's like now. Played for about 2 years but was never really a "gamer" as such. The other games never appealed to me.
In fairness even in WoW I came across a fair few girls who were there for attention. Used to hate it because it because you just knew that they were the reason women were always underrated in the gaming world.0 -
Please resist the urge to back seat mod and people the topic is dealing with friends who think anti women crap is funny. Yes men get crap said about them as well but that is not what the thread is about.0
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The boy walks in the door. I said I'm soapboxing on boards. He said "you mean bítch fighting?"
...
:pac:0 -
It works both ways
Iv seen sexist behaviour from men and also from women targeted at both sexes.
I guess the difference is men wont protest as much as women do. I don't expect it to go away any time soon either.
I will say though that its the intent behind the joke that's more important. While im all for a little bit of political in-correctnesses in jest it depends on the intent behind it.0 -
You've started a big debate OP but to address your actual personal issue with this I suggest you use the report option in Facebook and move on.
Getting upset over the ills of the world is easy and understandable but will serve you little good. People can be sexist, racist, homphobic, some people rob old granny's, the list is endless. Its not right and we shouldnt turn a blind eye to it but getting depressed isnt going to help, try channeling that emotion into something positive.
Accept the things you cant change or try to change the things you cant accept.0 -
All men hate women, didnt you know that?
Jokes aside, Im starting to think the above statement is true. Im a man and Ive been working on my self-awareness for the past few years. This has thrown up a lot of issues that previously hovered just under the suface with me. And one of those issues has to do with my own attitude towards women. I always thought I liked women, thought I got along fine with them but if Im being honest with increasing self-awareness I was shocked to find that I did harbour ill will, anger and even some hatred towards the fairer sex. I wanted to understand why I felt this way so this led me to read a book by Adam Jukes, "Why men hate women." Its eye opening and shocking stuff. The most shocking aspect of it though is how women can be complicit in the repression, or exploitation of other women(Hunky Dorey billboards come to mind). Its also a very intricate and complex issue.
So I do think theres an edge to the comments the OP referred to on that facebook page. People often say things, behind a veil of humour, that are nasty and designed to cut. And when these comments are challenged the old, I was only joking card is played, or, can you not take a joke.
I know this is a very controversial issue but, having read Adam Jukes' book and from watching male/female interactions closely since reading this book, Id have to reluctantly agree with his theory that buried deep within the psyche of every man is a hatred of women.0 -
The most shocking aspect of it though is how women can be complicit in the repression, or exploitation of other women
I don't think many women would disagree with that. It's a massive problem. But it's not the issue of this particular thread.
Have you given any thought to why you feel this way towards women? Is it in certain situations or right across the board? I'm genuinely interested because not many men would admit to actually hating women.0 -
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WesternNight wrote: »I don't think many women would disagree with that. It's a massive problem. But it's not the issue of this particular thread.
Have you given any thought to why you feel this way towards women? Is it in certain situations or right across the board? I'm genuinely interested because not many men would admit to actually hating women.
I dont hate women now Westernnight.......at least, when I realised what was going on I took steps to deal with my issues with women, its a work in progress I guess. It was never an issue of violence either, I never have or never would get violent with mrs Santana(or any other woman). It was more of a thing that lurked beneath the surface and manifested itself in different ways(derogatory comments veiled behind humour etc.). But I do have to be constantly vigiliant and aware of my thinking and attitudes towards women.0 -
Hi OP here,
Wow didn't think this would spark such a massive debate but am really interested in reading all your replies! I don't mind that this thread has been hijacked. I agree with Santana75 though that I think a lot of men maybe on a subconscious level have a certain hatred for women! I think jokes serve a purpose and its a safe way maybe for people to vent their frustrations that maybe they are not even fully aware of! Apparently since the rise of gender equality and PC policies in the workplace for example there has been an increase in the number of men watching abuse porn that portrays violence towards women. One sociologist claims that as men have been gagged to a degree and can't make sexist remarks in the office that some of them resport to viewing violent porn to vent their frustration toward women that they feel they are no longer allowed to express openly. This is not my theory but I read it in an UK newspaper sometime back. I wonder if those seemingly harmless fb are the same thing on a less dramatic scale. I am also curious how much of it comes down to sex. I had this discussion with a male friend who agreed with me that a lot of men hate women. His view was that as men need women for sex and that as a woman can say no or reject a man, men see women as having sexual power over them which they resent. I think a lot of men have unresolved Mammy issues - over controlling mother maybe which they end up transfering on to other women. It's a complex issue. Thanks for all the replies and especially the guys who admit to finding this stuff offensive - feel better even knowing that you exist! Liah I love what you have to say and how you articulate yourself. I can see that this issue has been pushing your buttons for some time too. I am sorry that you have had such a negative experience. All that whore and bitch stuff is so demeaning. Glad I am not alone though!0 -
WesternNight wrote: »The ones in bold are the ones I'd take most offense to. Whatever about the kitchen references, I have absolutely no time for anyone who jokes about beating women or treating them as if their sole purpose is to provide sex.
Absolutely agreed. These kinds of comments frighten me. Genuinely. I´m guessing in a lot of circumstances that´s their purpose.0 -
I think what you are seeing here is the tipping point. Over the past few years, men have been turned into this "joke" for women to laugh at. I've lost count of how many man hating songs I've heard on the radio, adverts that paint us to be moronic and stupid, or murderers in waiting and other general "stupid men" promotions. It's been pushed and forced so much, that what you are now witnessing is men saying "enough". Not in the most polite or articulate of forms, but an expression of their rejection of this culture none the less.
They've had enough of being ridiculed and generalised and they are now pushing back. You reap what you sow.0 -
I think what you are seeing here is the tipping point. Over the past few years, men have been turned into this "joke" for women to laugh at. I've lost count of how many man hating songs I've heard on the radio, adverts that paint us to be moronic and stupid, or murderers in waiting and other general "stupid men" promotions. It's been pushed and forced so much, that what you are now witnessing is men saying "enough". Not in the most polite or articulate of forms, but an expression of their rejection of this culture none the less.
They've had enough of being ridiculed and generalised and they are now pushing back. You reap what you sow.
Woah. You've got this all backwards. Are you suggesting that women's commenting about men came BEFORE men's commenting of women? If anything it came as a reaction and retaliation of the constant discrimination of women by men. Don't even think about telling us that women started all this.0 -
I think what you are seeing here is the tipping point. Over the past few years, men have been turned into this "joke" for women to laugh at. I've lost count of how many man hating songs I've heard on the radio, adverts that paint us to be moronic and stupid, or murderers in waiting and other general "stupid men" promotions. It's been pushed and forced so much, that what you are now witnessing is men saying "enough". Not in the most polite or articulate of forms, but an expression of their rejection of this culture none the less.
They've had enough of being ridiculed and generalised and they are now pushing back. You reap what you sow.
Sorry, but this doesn't fly with me. At all.
Women have been seen as less than men for millenia. Okay? That's hundreds upon hundreds of years. And I won't even bring up the Middle East or some parts of Asia where being born female is still seen as being less than human.
And you're trying to tell me that because of a few decades where women have actually found a voice and fought back after all these hundreds and thousands of years of repression, men are getting indignant because of a few adverts where they can't do laundry (which, as aforementioned, also promote the idea that women should be the ones doing the laundry, so is equally sexist)? Are you serious?
You're sitting there acting like every kind of discrimination men get is something women don't. I hate to break it to you, mate, but we have to deal with what this thread's about ON TOP of all the other things you guys are complaining about. Look at adverts. Magazines. Newspapers. Television. Film. In the media, each gender is equally made to look either retarded or sexualized. Neither gender has a monopoly on discrimination in media.
So honestly? No. Your argument is not going to work here. It holds no water. You've been doing this to us since the dawn of time. And this is just too much. Men don't get this. This does not happen to you. Not on this scale.
Where men do have an argument is the area of parental rights, and this stupid idea that all men are pedos or murderers. And trust me, I'm 100% behind you guys on that one. But that, again, is not what this thread's about.
EDIT: Is there any way we can get this thread moved to tLL? I actually really wouldn't mind seeing some points of view of the men and women in there.0 -
I think what you are seeing here is the tipping point. Over the past few years, men have been turned into this "joke" for women to laugh at. I've lost count of how many man hating songs I've heard on the radio, adverts that paint us to be moronic and stupid, or murderers in waiting and other general "stupid men" promotions. It's been pushed and forced so much, that what you are now witnessing is men saying "enough". Not in the most polite or articulate of forms, but an expression of their rejection of this culture none the less.
They've had enough of being ridiculed and generalised and they are now pushing back. You reap what you sow.
There's definitely an aspect of this that is true.
The slagging on both sides appears "good natured" but for a lot of people it isn't.
One ad for oven cleaner in the UK had the tagline "so easy even a man could to it". 700 complaints later advertising standards decided the ad was light-hearted.
I remember seeing an ad campaign where a boy racer was speeding only for a woman to make a "small penis" gesture with her little finger. Absolutely hilarious, right? Even the newspapers approved of it.
Or if anyone saw 40 days and 40 nights, near the end of the movie the lead character is hilariously handcuffed to his bed and raped by his ex-girlfriend as he slept.
The weird thing is, it's probably a man who thought up these ads and movies!
But groups like the ones that disgusted the op so much were probably set up in a "light hearted" response to this sort of "good natured" humour. One of the groups suggests that it's not ok to hit a pregnant woman in the face.. you should punch her in the stomach. Guess what? There was no pregnant woman. It was just a taboo joke that you didn't find funny.
All over facebook there are even sicker groups with sicker jokes. I can't even stomach the "dead baby" and "necropedophilia" jokes.. so I don't read them! They were just created to offend people. One of my friends thinks they are hilarious. I don't read anything into it. Some sick b****** set up a "madeleine mccann countdown - age until legal".. horrendous, so why did so many of my friends laugh at it?
I was watching family guy and my mam was in the room. Stewie said something along the lines of "Oh, to be the Lindbergh baby right about now." My mam thought it was a horrible - she just didn't "get" family guy's humour.
It actually reminded me of the southpark episode when it was finally ok to laugh at aids.
The op started going on about men not being able to make light-hearted remarks and instead turned to setting up violent facebook pages as an alternative to watching violent porn (a sociologist said it, of course, and her male friend agreed). I think this is nonsense.0 -
You've got me wrong! I'm not trying to belittle the struggle women have faced throughout time. I am giving a male perspective to the question asked. This trend of male bashing is going on a while now, and I'm not the only one to notice it.
I had no part or any responsibility for the oppresion women have faced as a gender, so I don't see why I should have some sort of debt hanging over my head just because I'm male.0 -
Can we keep this on topic and helpful please and the debate can be moved to humanites.0
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