Anti Women

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

I was just wondering about other views on the amount of antiwomen material there seems to be on the net. As a female I have to say it makes me very upset. Like today, I was on a friends page on facebook and I noticed that he had joined a group (I don't want to say the name to give them more publicity) that basically say women should get permission before talking. I know this is probably meant to be a joke and I like a joke as much as the next person. Anyway when I went in to look at this group there were pictures of women with black eyes with captions like "the whore should have kept her mouth shut" and "she left the kitchen". The worst part though is the comments. Loads of guys writing comments like "this is so awesome" "love this ****" kind of stuff and lots of "women are only good for cooking and to use as sex slaves" "I can't **** your college degree so don't bother getting educated bitch" I know this speaks volumes about the type of guys who find this funny and who would write comments like that but scary thing is the guys look "normal" and some of them are married with kids. Should I just lighten up and accept this. I did notice also that one or two females had slammed other girls who had complained about the comments. I think its blatant misogny dressed up as "lighten up and take a joke" Women are even falling into that trap thinking you are uptight if you don't enjpy porn and laugh at sexist jokes. Any views? Should I lighten up? Particulary interested in the male perspective.

LegacyUser

not a guy, but i do find it odd how racist remarks are taboo these days (and rightly so) but sexist ones are fine - and im not talking about the odd light-hearted comment between friends, but that page seems to be a bit far past that.
And yeah i hate that if you dont find it funny, you're a "stuckup b*tch" or "man-hating feminist" or something along those lines.

tenchi-fan

Hi
This isn't really a PI I don't think.
But, yea you probably need to lighten up. These groups are basically trolling for people who are easily offended and go out of their way to be offended.
I saw a group called "99 times it's ok to hit a woman and one time it's not" or something along those lines. the comments are just silly and while it's a bit of a joke, an employer would not find it so funny!
They usually don't last long before they get enough complaints and are deleted by facebook.

liah

I know how you feel. I don't think guys really "get" it, nor particularly want to, because they've never honestly experienced anything like it (though they may think they have.. they just haven't). So they see someone getting upset about something as seemingly innocuous as that (to them) and they get their laugh. The thing they don't understand, though, is that we hear/see stuff like this every single day, all over the entire bloody internet, and a lot of the time in person, depending on your crowd. It's not funny or clever or "taboo," it's as old as it comes, it's boring, and it's offensive simply for the sake of being offensive.

I'm absolutely dead sick of it and really, truly wish people would just cop on. But the worst part is I can't say anything about it, because then I'd just be seen as having no sense of humour or as being stuck up. It's nothing to do with that. It's the fact that literally half the population is completely discredited constantly in the mainstream and nobody thinks twice, like it's okay and acceptable for people to say/think things like that. It's also the fact that men go out of their way to piss us off. As if it's funny. Maybe it is, but I don't really see the joke in trying to hurt other people. Guess it's just lost on me. But who cares who suffers at the expense of your joke, right? Besides, they're only women, they're crazy/probably pmsing/irrational/whatever the latest and greatest is. :rolleyes:

While people will maintain it's all "just jokes guyz lol get over it!!", there's more to it than that. But anyone with a penis isn't particularly likely to understand it.

porschespeedst

guestbhwk wrote: »

I think its blatant misogny dressed up as "lighten up and take a joke" Women are even falling into that trap thinking you are uptight if you don't enjpy porn and laugh at sexist jokes. Any views? Should I lighten up? Particulary interested in the male perspective.

I have never come across this type of site, but speaking as a male and based on your description, I think you are right in viewing it as misogynistic. I would have no interest in looking at such a site, it sounds a bit sad. I'd like to think the majority of guys wouldn't either.

tenchi-fan

liah wrote: »

While people will maintain it's all "just jokes guyz lol get over it!!", there's more to it than that. But anyone with a penis isn't particularly likely to understand it.

That comment is pretty sexist!

I think programmes like Family Guy and Southpark help push the boat out a bit and promote this sort of humour.

But if you don't like being offended and you see a group called "Not all men just want a relationship for sex, Some want their ironing done" or "The awkward feeling you get when a woman speaks without permission"... just ignore it!! Don't click on it and read the comments. Delete the friend who posted it if you like!

LegacyUser

Guy here,
The answer would be ya lighten up.
guys say stuff like that all the time, seriously a lot more than you think but I can safely say that in 99% of cases it isnt meant. Its like telling racist jokes or whatever and arent intended to be hurtful as they are soo sexist that it is obvious that they are not being serious. Like seriously do you believe that any guy on that site actually believs women need permission to talk? of course not. They say stuff like that to look macho or alpha male or something and I dont think any guy would say that stuff to a womans face unless he knew she would as a joke. Personally Id say I respect women and wouldnt treat them any differently than men but I still find these type of sites hillarious. So ya lighten up.

now get back to the kitchen

Des Carter

liah wrote: »

I know how you feel. I don't think guys really "get" it, nor particularly want to, because they've never honestly experienced anything like it (though they may think they have.. they just haven't). So they see someone getting upset about something as seemingly innocuous as that (to them) and they get their laugh. The thing they don't understand, though, is that we hear/see stuff like this every single day, all over the entire bloody internet, and a lot of the time in person, depending on your crowd. It's not funny or clever or "taboo," it's as old as it comes, it's boring, and it's offensive simply for the sake of being offensive.

I'm absolutely dead sick of it and really, truly wish people would just cop on. But the worst part is I can't say anything about it, because then I'd just be seen as having no sense of humour or as being stuck up. It's nothing to do with that. It's the fact that literally half the population is completely discredited constantly in the mainstream and nobody thinks twice, like it's okay and acceptable for people to say/think things like that. It's also the fact that men go out of their way to piss us off. As if it's funny. Maybe it is, but I don't really see the joke in trying to hurt other people. Guess it's just lost on me. But who cares who suffers at the expense of your joke, right? Besides, they're only women, they're crazy/probably pmsing/irrational/whatever the latest and greatest is. :rolleyes:

While people will maintain it's all "just jokes guyz lol get over it!!", there's more to it than that. But anyone with a penis isn't particularly likely to understand it.

Does someone have PMS?

anyway guys dont mean it to be harmful as the majority of guy dont believe it yet still find it funny. Also they dont seem to say this stuff directly to women unless they are hiding behind a computer.

Victor

lighten-up wrote: »

now get back to the kitchen

Possibly funny.

Des Carter wrote: »

Does someone have PMS? :

Pushing it.

Can we keep the jokes for elsewhere?

porschespeedst

lighten-up wrote: »

Personally Id say I respect women and wouldnt treat them any differently than men but I still find these type of sites hillarious. So ya lighten up.

now get back to the kitchen

See, that's precisely what they're complaining about. Laughing off misyogny and treating as a joke. And though I don't agree with everything Liah, in particular, said in her post, the lack of empathy or basic sensitivity displayed by some men seems a valid complaint, to me.

The_Minister

Maybe move this to TLL?

Nevyn

A lot of people who have never had that crap said to them and it be seriously meant think that nobody ever says that stuff for real so anyone who find it objectionable needs to lighten up.

Unfortunately a lot of people do still say that type of crap for real seriously or worse
as a way of belittling a person or putting them down and pretend it's a joke so that when you call them on it you are thin skinned and have no sense of humor.

I don't agree with 'it's only a joke' be the butt of the joke often enough and it's not funny at all.

A lot of people in their early 20s think there is equality between the genders and spousal/partner abuse and sexism is a thing of the past, unfortunately it's not and it's still such a taboo that people don't speak out about for fear of being told 'lighten up' or 'you are too thin skinned' or ' oh please stop playing the victim'.

Both men and women do this it's not just guys, but men in general tend to be more unaware of how sexist comments even in jest rob women of confidence and are a turn off and with people both men and women not calling them on it, it will continue.

So don't think there is something wrong with you if such things make you feel uncomfortable.

krudler

Theres a big flip side to this, what about the amount of anti-men advertising in the mainstream media? as in whats on ad breaks every night on tv, not on some unknown website or facebook group. Think of the amount of ads portraying men as these feckless morons who cant work washing machines or mind kids or do the shopping or buy the proper household products. That famous ad of the guy who cant wash his own shirt and has to get his mother to do it? if that was an ad showing a woman afraid of a spider or some other cliched crap waiting to be saved by a man there'd be uproar from the "feminists" (most of whom dont even know what that word means). But if a guy complains about this he gets the standard "sure isnt it true?!" attitude from women, yes of course we cant use hoovers or work washing machines (despite the fact it was men who invented them to begin with I might add).

There are plenty of mysoginistic assholes in the world, dont worry yourself thinking about it.

Nevyn

krudler please keep this on topic and helpful to the op.

liah

tenchi-fan wrote: »

That comment is pretty sexist!

I don't think so. How are men meant to relate if they don't have to experience it daily like we do?

Maybe I see more of this because I've spent a lot of time gaming and on forums and on the 'net in general and most of my friends are male, but men definitely don't have to deal with half of that type of sexism, not by a long shot.

Angus Og

It's disgusting really. There's nothing funny about this behaviour, and if your friend joins a group like that you should make your feelings known about it. If this was about a friend joining a neo-nazi group would people say lighten up? No.

There isn't much you can do about it, but if any of my male friends were part of a group like that, I'd be asking myself if I ever really knew them.

It's disgusting.

Eve_Dublin

It makes me sad and depressed too. I always believed Ireland was a relatively equal society and I still do but when I joined Boards and logged into AH and saw so much anti-Irish female (and just plain anti-female) b-shyte and it upsets me and I´m almost sure I´m not alone. There´s a whole proportion of Irish men who dislike me purely because I´m female. These same men wouldn´t dream of starting threads condeming immigrants etc because this would be racist. There is absolutely no difference and these men need to put themselves in our shoes for two seconds and try and understand how we might feel. This is only the tip of the iceberg of what we endure on a daily basis though.

And no, I´m not a man-hating feminist for thinking this.

Jenneke87

Yes indeed, those groups are sooo funny, we should all just lighten up and forget that, still, for many women, this is reality. If so don´t believe me go to countries like Somalie, Afghanistan and the like.

To a lesser extent, many women still face comments like that. I was told by a man that I should not speak `because I have tits.` I saw the hurt looks on my mothers face when my father made sexist jokes about women despite her making his dinner every night and his breakfast, even if he had to go up and 04.00 in the morning, never asking for anything in return.


Facebook pages that reduce women to the status of kitchenslaves are not something to celebrate. Guys who say that`we should lighten up`should try to imagine their wifes/girlfriend/sisters on those pictures and see if they still find it funny.....

prinz

Personally I find it's actually women who are far, far worse these days at promoting sexism against women than men. In my, and my OH's experience and she has spoken of this to me many times, she is far more likely to get negative comments from other women about what she likes, what she wants in life etc.

Eoin

That type of stuff isn't on. But you're kidding yourself if you think that men aren't discriminated against, or that there aren't double standards.

irishh_bob

theese ( disgusting ) derogrotory comments are coming from fringe media , when it comes to mainstream media , it is men who are subject to sexism the vast majority of the time , as another poster has pointed out , in advertising on tv or radio , men are potrayed as moronic ( homer simpsons like ) and infantile and usually incapable of opening a can of beans

Vomit

Like most idiotic things on the internet, it's probably written by sheltered, middle class young men who think the world is their playground and that other people and all topics are just toys to be played with.

Cheap Thrills!

I'm a woman and I have to say that type of stuff rolls off me like water off a ducks back. It's just blokes being outrageous/shocking in an ironic way most of the time.

Yes, you'll get the odd freak who actually thinks like that but they'll actually be pariahs amongst men as much as women.

I think its a backlash against the kind of humorless feminism that existed 20-30 years ago. Which by the way I don't think did women many favours. In fact it characterised feminists as aggressive, bitter and unbalanced. As well as blind to their own double standards ('all men are bastards!' 'men are thick') etc

Feminism has moved on from that but you still get the odd bullyish, entrenched feminist and men remember that with distaste. I believe the mysoginistic braggadio you see online and in lads mags now are a kick against those 'feminst' double standards.

I wouldn't take it seriously. Its a banter that goes on with lads but for the most part their tongues are firmly in their cheeks as far as I can make out.

And for those blokes who actually mean that stuff literally well, you can do nothing but pity them really or hope they end up married to Mllie Tant!

prinz

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

I think its a backlash against the kind of humorless feminism that existed 20-30 years ago.

It still exists, the target it women now as much as men.

Cheap Thrills!

prinz wrote: »

It still exists, the target it women now as much as men.

Yeah, but I ignore those bully type feminists, what never fails to amaze me about them is they can't see the irony of their own hypocritical actions.

They vilify men for certain mindsets/behaviours in the past but they want now to indulge in exactly the same kinds of things.

For that reason I would not identify with a militant feminist at all. Too bitter and unbalanced constantly polishing their chip on their shoulders!

Nevyn

Cheap Thrills! I fail to see how your insulting posts about feminist are helpful to the op and do nothing but insult those posters who do consider themselves feminists, if you which to have such discussions PI is not the place.

Nevyn

Cheap Thrills! please pm me rather then dragging this thread further off topic.

Please note this thread is about helping the OP deal with what they are feeling
after encountering a male friend part taking in what she sees as online groups making light of or condoning sexist and anti women material and what she should do about it.

LegacyUser

I have received demeaning comments from men while I've been out in the daytime on the way to the shops, (and no I wasn't wearing a short skirt or attracting attention to myself). It can be baffling and hurtful but the men (they are always men not school boys) who do it are never on their own they are always with a group and what they are really doing is shouting their insecurities from the roof tops. It's the same online. It's best just to accept that these men are scared and/or stupid and grow a thick skin o.p. It's clear to see that there is a problem with after hours it attracts the lowest common denomentor Irish Sun/Mirror/Daily Mail reader types, but I don't know what the moderators can do, where exactly do you draw the line? You do have to wonder though when you are standing at the bus stop looking at the Hunky Dory adverts how backward Irish society is.

Sorry

I notice it all the time, everywhere. Even on Boards. At the end of the day, there's nothing you can do but try to counter it as often as you can, e.g. reporting comments on youtube. The sad fact of the matter is that these young men are mildly retarded and if they weren't foaming at the mouth talking of how many 'bitches' they wanted to 'fúck' they would be in the garden running around with their pants down throwing beefburgers at frightened cats.

I am a man by the way, and I don't think the important point is about how men will never understand what it is like. You don't have to experience sexism personally to be abhorred by it. I'm not black, so while I will never truly feel what it's like to suffer a racist attack such as being called the n-word, it doesn't mean I can't relate in a sense that I understand it must be hurtful, frustrating and upsetting, and we have all felt these feelings .

So anyway, I hate that nonsense sexism, but it's usually coming from immature idiots (Even though it's still entrenched to the degree that people who should know better engage in sexist behaviour).

Also, I think that you should defriend these people. People have to start standing up to it. Perhaps if a lot of female friends deleted him he would assess his actions and maybe learn a lesson.

MagicSean

Without knowing your friend I can't really tell you what to do. But you know him. So if you know he has joined it as a joke you should lighten up. If you think he is in any way serious maybe you shouldn't be his friend. If he is only joking and you still find it offensive maybe you shouldn't be friends as you obviously aren't compatible.

These joke and emails are just as common in relation to men. I often get emails about our stupidity and uselessness. But I think that this kind of comedy helps to break barriers and perceptions. It usually highlights how ridiculous these kinds of sexist views are.

Mrmoe

There are lots of things out there that I do not agree with and infuriate me at times. This will be the way with everyone, there will always be something that they find offensive that other people do not. It would be better to avoid these kind of things unless you can change them. This is a lesson to learn in life, people think differently, it is best to just move on at times.