What was the most prevalent IRA rifle?

harmoniums

Everyone here in the states thinks it was the AR180.
Most pictures, videos seem to show them with FALs AKs and standard M16/AR15s.
Did they actually use the AR180 at all?

Avgas

Hi Harmoniums,

Yep it seems they did...there is a book out at the moment here in Ireland by senior ex-IRA man "Whitey" Bradley...I forget the title...its not bad in giving an insight into PIRA..(.whatever one thinks of them..leaving that aside)...

he says the "Armalite"...was a great tactical boost because it had a folding stock..women "volunteers" could even use it (lower recoil?).....mentions they were sourced in the states and smuggled over on the QE2 to England first!....

They also had a fair few old .303s....some FN FALs were actually stolen BA SLRs......at least he says that....

But they used anything and pistols were v.much their thing...also mentions his fondness for the a Mauser 9x21mm semi-automatic pistol "peter the painter" which he used...and was passed around.....

Also mentions that PIRA never really were any good at marskmanship and had few 'snipe' people...notwithstanding the guy who used the .5 piece towards the end in S. Armagh area of ops.

But that is only one recent source.....

R.Dub.Fusilier

harmoniums wrote: »

Everyone here in the states thinks it was the AR180.
Most pictures, videos seem to show them with FALs AKs and standard M16/AR15s.
Did they actually use the AR180 at all?

i read in one of ed maloneys books that the IRA got a load of Armalites from the USA and that Gerry Adams held back on handing them out , so to speak, until he got out of prison as a present to the volunteers.

SlabMurphy

Avgas wrote: »

Hi Harmoniums,

Yep it seems they did...there is a book out at the moment here in Ireland by senior ex-IRA man "Whitey" Bradley...I forget the title...its not bad in giving an insight into PIRA..(.whatever one thinks of them..leaving that aside)...

he says the "Armalite"...was a great tactical boost because it had a folding stock..women "volunteers" could even use it (lower recoil?).....mentions they were sourced in the states and smuggled over on the QE2 to England first!....

They also had a fair few old .303s....some FN FALs were actually stolen BA SLRs......at least he says that....

But they used anything and pistols were v.much their thing...also mentions his fondness for the a Mauser 9x21mm semi-automatic pistol "peter the painter" which he used...and was passed around.....

Also mentions that PIRA never really were any good at marskmanship and had few 'snipe' people...notwithstanding the guy who used the .5 piece towards the end in S. Armagh area of ops.

But that is only one recent source.....

If you read Tim Pat Coogans The IRA which is even acknowledged as the best book written about them even by the IRA itself, in one chapter he states how the IRA used just about every firearm they coulkd get their hands on at the start of the troubles. From shotguns to hunting rifles, WW2 Lee Enfeilds, even the old Thompson machine gun. Far from the British inspired black propaganda that the IRA instignated the troubles, they were totally unprepared for the unionist pogroms in August 1969 with young people writing on the walls of the Falls Rd. etc IRA - I Ran Away.

As reagards the Armalite, surprisingly a friend of mine from Belfast who was in the Provos told me they did indeed prefer the M16. Mainly because it was much easier to assemble/disassemble to hide or smuggle to an operation. Well that's what he said. But he said from the mid 80's on with contacts in the middle east and eastern Europe, they were getting easy supplies of AK47's and hand guns. AK47's good weapon he reckoned, but they preferred the M16.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were using old " Peter the Painter's " for the reasons mentioned above. I remember this friend of mine telling me, ( and to be honest laughing at), how their was an old Thompson in his area that he reckoned " took out more f**king Brits and Organies than any modern weapon. "

" Should have been a museum piece " he chuckled and it may well be in the Republican museum in Belfast. He reckoned that they only stoped using the old Thompson as they found it hard to get ammo for it. Indeed, you could contact the Belfast Republican museum for more info if you want. See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055882795

SlabMurphy

Avgas wrote: »

Also mentions that PIRA never really were any good at marskmanship and had few 'snipe' people...notwithstanding the guy who used the .5 piece towards the end in S. Armagh area of ops.

But that is only one recent source.....

Well when you say snipers I guessing you mean shooting from quite a distance, a half a mile or whatever. Probably didn't use long distance sniping as they just had your normal assault rifle, M16, AK47 etc most of the time. But your right they did use long distance snipers in South Armagh and the border counties ( I remember reading when they shot a British soldier on patrol from county Leitrim across Lough Melvin, at least half a mile, in Fermanagh ).

What type of snipers rifle is this in this video of them ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep1WEqWPNNs&feature=related

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

i read in one of ed maloneys books that the IRA got a load of Armalites from the USA and that Gerry Adams held back on handing them out , so to speak, until he got out of prison as a present to the volunteers.

I'm not trying to make a case for Adams, but I won't believe a WORD Maloney writes about him, sometimes he gets it right ( and on the law of averages he'd have to ) but most of the stuff he writes is conspiracy stuff. He's little more than a joke like Paul Williams.

Manic Moran

What type of snipers rifle is this in this video of them ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep1WE...eature=related

I have absolutely no idea. It looks like nothing I can find, (and yes, I've looked up every Barrett model as well). Also had a hunt around the WWII anti-tank rifles, it's not one of those either.

My best guess is that it's a homebuilt, maybe based off a Russian 12.7. I'll ask around, maybe the lads on ArfCom can identify it.

NTM

SlabMurphy

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea. It looks like nothing I can find, (and yes, I've looked up every Barrett model as well). Also had a hunt around the WWII anti-tank rifles, it's not one of those either.

My best guess is that it's a homebuilt, maybe based off a Russian 12.7. I'll ask around, maybe the lads on ArfCom can identify it.

NTM

Well if Manic Moran doesn't know then nobody knows - and I mean that seriously. The guy just about knows every weapon/battle/general etc since Cain and Abel !!!

( Glad this thread hasn't descended into an IRA eat babies thread, like it or not, the IRA 1969 on, have a hell of a story to tell. Maybe if the " IRA eat baby's " brigade would wind their neck in some of it could be told - whether you agree with them or not )

iceage

SlabMurphy wrote: »

What type of snipers rifle is this in this video of them ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep1WEqWPNNs&feature=related
QUOTE]

Iver Johnson AMAC .50 Cal. Not sure about the ammo said sniper was using..awful lot of smoke, some dodgy reload probably.

Manic Moran

I'm impressed. AMAC 1500

Well if Manic Moran doesn't know then nobody knows - and I mean that seriously. The guy just about knows every weapon/battle/general etc since Cain and Abel !!!

Not so much small arms. Vehicles, on the other hand...

NTM

Wolfe Tone

Interesting topic. Maybe a topic on the weapons of the IRA would be a goer? Always found it interesting.


Anyway in sheer numbers I think the AK47 was the most prevalent. Gadaffi gave hundreds of them to the PIRA.

DublinWriter

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Gadaffi gave hundreds of them to the PIRA.

He also gave them a handful of SAMs which where subsequently ruined due to dampness in underground storage locations.

The provos made extensive use of the Barrett M82 sniper rifle in Armagh, using it typically take out targets at a 1/2 mile range over hilly terrain.

Wolfe Tone

DublinWriter wrote: »

He also gave them a handful of SAMs which where subsequently ruined due to dampness in underground storage locations.

The provos made extensive use of the Barrett M82 sniper rifle in Armagh, using it typically take out targets at a 1/2 mile range over hilly terrain.

He gave them tons of Semtex too didnt he?

Heres a list from wiki: Some serious kit.

* 9mm Browning, Taurus, Glock and Beretta handguns
* AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifles
* MP5 SMGs
* RPG-7 anti-tank rocket launcher
* Soviet made DShK heavy machine guns (HMGs)
* FN MAG machine guns
* U.S. military flamethrowers
* Semtex plastic explosive
* Strela 2 man portable SAMs
* The Casamara took on ten tonnes of weapons in September 1985 off the Maltese island of Gozo. These weapons were landed off the Clogga Strand near Arklow later that month. The shipment contained five hundred crates of AK-47s, pistols, hand grenades, ammunition and seven RPG-7s.
* The vessel Dushkas left Maltese waters on 6 October 1985 carrying HMGs. These weapons were also landed in Clogga Strand.
* In July 1986, there was a shipment of fourteen tonnes, including, according to the authorities, two SAM-7s.
* In October 1986, another shipment of eighty tonnes which included one tonne of Semtex, reportedly ten SAM-7 missiles, more RPG-7s, AK-47s and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition arrived aboard the vessel Villa.[18]

Subsequent Garda Síochána (Irish police) arms finds in 1988 included several hundred AK-47s, Russian DSHK HMGs, FN MAG machine guns and Semtex.[19] The author Ed Moloney claims that the Eksund shipment also contained military mortars and 106 millimetre cannon, an assertion never confirmed by the Irish authorities.[20] It is also estimated that Gaddafi gave the IRA the equivalent of £2 million along with the 1980s shipments.[19]

cushtac

DublinWriter wrote: »

The provos made extensive use of the Barrett M82 sniper rifle in Armagh, using it typically take out targets at a 1/2 mile range over hilly terrain.

Most of the shots fired from the Barrett were fired from within 300m, there was no great IRA marksman making long range shots.

johngalway

iceage wrote: »

Iver Johnson AMAC .50 Cal. Not sure about the ammo said sniper was using..awful lot of smoke, some dodgy reload probably.

My €€€ is on that's dust risen by the muzzle break and not smoke, or at least not completely smoke. Someone forgot to tell him to wet the area of ground effected.

johngalway

DublinWriter wrote: »

He also gave them a handful of SAMs which where subsequently ruined due to dampness in underground storage locations.

That's something I've always wondered about, why no SAM (to my very limited knowledge) was used against British air units. Even if they only had a handful of them surely it would have been a PR coup to their minds. I do believe attempts were made to shoot down helicopters with large calibre rifles alright.

Wolfe Tone

johngalway wrote: »

That's something I've always wondered about, why no SAM (to my very limited knowledge) was used against British air units. Even if they only had a handful of them surely it would have been a PR coup to their minds. I do believe attempts were made to shoot down helicopters with large calibre rifles alright.

They shot a couple down with a heavy machine gun.

johngalway

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

They shot a couple down with a heavy machine gun.

How come they never used a SAM though? Were they kaput from word go, or what I wonder. Must go look up about the machine gun downings.

Wolfe Tone

No idea. Presume they would be hard to use, doubt they had enough to practise with!

Maybe they planned to use the explosives in the rockets for bombs?

Wolfe Tone

Here is video of an attack with a machine gun. Anyone have any idea what type it is?

Manic Moran

johngalway wrote: »

How come they never used a SAM though?

I don't know that they didn't. They may not have successfully used a SAM, but they may have triedand missed.

NTM

Johnnyglann

Carlos Hathcock USMC Gunnery Sgt during vietnam, shot and killed a VC at 2500yrds with a M1-.50 cal crew served, with an adapted scope (Redman. 93 confirmed kills and probably over 300 all told . This man led the way in competition and tactical shooting. This may not relate exactly to this forum but anyone holding a rifle with any intent should read up on this Marine/Rifleman.
Semper Fi.

johngalway

Just watched that video after Googling.

My opinion would be that bombs were ten a penny, but SAMs would bring an entire new dimension to things. Denying BA the use of the roads is one thing, active use of SAMs would have given a lot of pause for thought.

But, as MM says, perhaps they did and had no success.

Manic Moran

Anyone have any idea what type it is?

If that was a muzzle brake sticking out beyond the skip, it looked very much like a DshK.

NTM

Wolfe Tone

Manic Moran wrote: »

If that was a muzzle brake sticking out beyond the skip, it looked very much like a DshK.

NTM

I know next to nothing about guns, would that be powerful enough to take down a chopper?

Somthing like this?


That looks like it could do some serious damage. May even be the very one, source doesn't say where that photo is from.

Taken from here(ewww The Sun!)

Manic Moran

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I know next to nothing about guns, would that be powerful enough to take down a chopper?

Easily. Its primary designed use was as an anti-aircraft weapon.

NTM

danbohan

johngalway wrote: »

How come they never used a SAM though? Were they kaput from word go, or what I wonder. Must go look up about the machine gun downings.

they were used near the border in fermanagh on one occasion at least but missed , helecopters in border areas usally operated in pairs or sometimes more for protection from possible attacks

Wolfe Tone

I wonder if they ever used it against personnel or vehicles... Would do serious damage to a car.

One of the things I find fascinating about the IRA are the home made weapons they used, especially the morters, ones like this, the "Barrack busters"

Barrack buster is the colloquial name given to several improvised mortars, developed in the 1990s by the engineering group of the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA).
The first barrack buster - known to the British security forces as the Mark 15 mortar - consisted of a one metre long metal propane cylinder with a diameter of 36 cm that contained around 70 kg of home-made explosives and with a range between 75 and 275 m. The cylinder is an adaptation of a commercial 'Kosangas' gas cylinder for heating and cooking gas used in rural areas in Ireland.[1]

Source(Wiki)





IRA’s Mark 15 Barrack Buster mortar on display by members of the organisation in a propaganda video from 1994.
Source

danbohan

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I wonder if they ever used it against personnel or vehicles... Would do serious damage to a car.

One of the things I find fascinating about the IRA are the home made weapons they used, especially the morters, ones like this, the "Barrack busters"


Source(Wiki)





IRA’s Mark 15 Barrack Buster mortar on display by members of the organisation in a propaganda video from 1994.
Source

they were developed long before 1990s , i was pretty near to a british army post attacked with them in 1982, , i was in a car half a mile from the base yet could feel the blast effect on the car so they were pretty powerfull if inaccurate

Jonah42

I heard that the IRA never secured the proper guidance systems required to operate the SAM's.

Wolfe Tone

danbohan wrote: »

they were developed long before 1990s , i was pretty near to a british army post attacked with them in 1982, , i was in a car half a mile from the base yet could feel the blast effect on the car so they were pretty powerfull if inaccurate

I wonder if the IRA "invented" them? Do guerrilla fighters elsewhere use them? I heard they do in Columbia... IRA sent people over to train them apparently.

chem

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I wonder if they ever used it against personnel or vehicles... Would do serious damage to a car.

One of the things I find fascinating about the IRA are the home made weapons they used, especially the morters, ones like this, the "Barrack busters"


Source(Wiki)





IRA’s Mark 15 Barrack Buster mortar on display by members of the organisation in a propaganda video from 1994.
Source

I think this man was behind alot of the home made stuff:

http://www.obrien.ie/Book631.cfm

Got talking to a man who knows him Said he designed alot of the home made items used during the troubles. Never read the book yet. Was give the chance to meet the man out of interest, but declined. Might buy a copy of the book and get it signed by him.