Does religion have a place in 6th Year Graduations?

IvySlayer

ScienceNerd wrote: »

They'd be 17/18/19

There was a religious element at my graduation as far as I remember, but I went to a CBS so it's to be expected

*high five*

Survived a CBS too

To the OP, Religion has no place anywhere other than the inside of a church.

quicklickpaddy

old hippy wrote: »

People are forced to use it when there's not enough places in the non-religious schools. Or they're forced to use it when they are sent to religious schools by domineering or shall we say - traditional - parents.

Then the problem is with the parents not the system? As I said, there are more and more non-religious schools being set up and for the most part - religious schools can be avoided, if not in 100% of the cases, but again more are being built so the issue is being addressed.

Do you agree with the OP? If you are in the Catholic system do you think it's reasonable to complain about the Catholic influence?

robinph

How is this blessing malarkey work, are they processing you all individually as you go to collect you bit of paper, or is he doing it to everyone at the same time?

Has to be some non confrontational way of avoiding it and not causing a scene. Go up say "Thanks but, no thanks" when the bloke trys to do his thing to you and collect you bit of paper, smile and leave.

Seachmall

robinph wrote: »

How is this blessing malarkey work, are they processing you all individually as you go to collect you bit of paper, or is he doing it to everyone at the same time?

Has to be some non confrontational way of avoiding it and not causing a scene. Go up say "Thanks but, no thanks" when the bloke trys to do his thing to you and collect you bit of paper, smile and leave.

Everyone at the same time I think, unless they did it when you got the Eucharist (which I didn't, so they might have).

old hippy

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Then the problem is with the parents not the system? As I said, there are more and more non-religious schools being set up and for the most part - religious schools can be avoided, if not in 100% of the cases, but again more are being built so the issue is being addressed.

Do you agree with the OP? If you are in the Catholic system do you think it's reasonable to complain about the Catholic influence?

I think it's reasonable if you are in the RCC system - whether Catholic or not - to complain, if it offends your sensibilities.

And I stick to my argument that there are not enough places in non-denom schools & that sometimes your parents will send you to religious schools and expect you to swallow the dogma, hook, line and sinker.

hotmail.com

Good look with the petition. Community schools are meant to be devoid of religion at these types of events. Odd that it's even being mentioned and slightly offensive to those that do not subscribe to the Catholic faith.

Mike 1972

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Because nobody is forced to use it!

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

if not in 100% of the cases

Backtracking I see

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

but again more are being built

Not quickly enough

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

so the issue is being addressed.

Coming along nicely just like global poverty, racism, world peace, traffic in the mornings, the national debt..........

quicklickpaddy

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Backtracking I see


Not quickly enough


Coming along nicely just like global poverty, racism, world peace, traffic in the mornings, the national debt..........

Right so. What's your solution?

And as far as not being 100% available, someone just said here that it'd take an extra 25 minutes to get to the non-denominational school. Yes, Catholic schools outnumber the non-Catholic but if you're not bothered to make your way out to the later then don't complain about it!

Einhard

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

The schools are generally set up and run by the Church, not the state. The state subsidises them which I don't think anyone can argue with? If you don't want to be in a religious environment then don't go to a religious school

Most religious schools in Ireland were set up at least 50 years ago, and are not "subsidised" by the state, but funded almost 100% by the taxpayer. So you can't say that they're religious schools and people should thus expect them to be run along religious principles.

Also, the Churches are patrons of approx 90% of secondary schools. In many towns and villages there's no such thing as a secular school. The only way people could follow your suggestion and not go to a religious school is not to go to school at all. Great solution.

old hippy

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Right so. What's your solution?

And as far as not being 100% available, someone just said here that it'd take an extra 25 minutes to get to the non-denominational school. Yes, Catholic schools outnumber the non-Catholic but if you're not bothered to make your way out to the later then don't complain about it!

But what if you can't? What if your parents insist on a religious schooling?

RolandIRL

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Right so. What's your solution?

And as far as not being 100% available, someone just said here that it'd take an extra 25 minutes to get to the non-denominational school. Yes, Catholic schools outnumber the non-Catholic but if you're not bothered to make your way out to the later then don't complain about it!

you're not taking my whole point. i said extra 40 minutes, and fee-paying which a lot of parents wouldn't be able to afford. and when you factor in the cost of driving there, waiting in traffic. almost 2 hours round trip for my parents.

so i think some people do have the right to complain!

Nodin

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

The schools are generally set up and run by the Church, not the state. The state subsidises them which I don't think anyone can argue with? If you don't want to be in a religious environment then don't go to a religious school

...which, in Ireland, is virtually impossible.

Nodin

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Then the problem is with the parents not the system? As I said, there are more and more non-religious schools being set up and for the most part - religious schools can be avoided,

Ahahahaha...yeah.

Einhard

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Yes they can. There are more and more multidemoninational schools springing up around the place. If you really want to avoid religion you can.

I don't think it's an issue of wishing to avoid religion, more a desire not to be forced into anything against your will. Wouldn't it be fairer and more practical to have a simple opt in policy for the blessing ceremony, rather than tell those who don't wish to take part that they can move to another town or school? Especially seen as at least 30% don't want to participate?

Mike 1972

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

The state subsidises them which I don't think anyone can argue with?

Er I think youll find a lot of people here doing just that !

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Right so. What's your solution?

Ive gone into this before but here we go again...........

Government passes legislation providing for the phasing out of all public funding for Church/Private schools over ten years with an option to acquire for a (very) nominal sum the Churches interest in some/all of these schools.

Einhard

red_ice wrote: »

Alot of schools are founded by and run by churches these days. If your school is, then deal with it. You chose to go there and theres no point in trying to change the way it works.

I was in terenure college and we had a mass for everything. Yea, people tried to change the way things ran, but it didnt happen. Thats how they said the education should be handled, and thats that.

IMO, if you are in a school that is tied to a church, you should stfu and deal with it, so should the other 30 signatures on your list. Gets on my nerve all this religious bashing that goes on on these forums.

Otherwise if your school is not tied to a church... dont go to the mass. Its quite simple really.

Where's the choice if there are no decent secular schools within your area? Also, seeing as secularists contribute to the running of schools through taxes, why should they even have to make such a choice? I don't want to pay taxes to subsidise anyone's religion, especially if it's to the exclusion of fellow secularist/atheists.

old hippy

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Ive gone into this before but here we go again...........

Government passes legislation providing for the phasing out of all public funding for Church/Private schools over ten years with an option to acquire for a (very) nominal sum the Churches interest in these schools.

A fab idea but you can just see the opposition to that, can't you?

The die hards would never acquiesce.

aDeener

dont like it dont go to it!

its like those damn marrow fat peas that somehow keep ending up on my plate, i dont eat them

quicklickpaddy

Ya know what... I give up :rolleyes:

My experience with the Catholic system was good even though I'm not religious and I know I could have move to a non-demonational school relatively easily. I'm outnumbered here and I get the impression most people quoting me are not from Dublin... Which obviously changes things.

old hippy

aDeener wrote: »

dont like it dont go to it!

its like those damn marrow fat peas that somehow keep ending up on my plate, i dont eat them

Blasphemy!

Einhard

aDeener wrote: »

dont like it dont go to it!

its like those damn marrow fat peas that somehow keep ending up on my plate, i dont eat them

And what if there's nothing to eat in your town but marrowfat peas? What do you do then? Starve?

hotmail.com

Religion has no impact in the teaching of maths, Irish, English, geography, science, history and so on and so on. Why do we have these religious schools.

robinph

Seachmall wrote: »

Everyone at the same time I think, unless they did it when you got the Eucharist (which I didn't, so they might have).

Something along the lines of everyone goes up to get their bits of paper, the ones that do go and stand in the corner, the ones that don't go and sit back down. Bloke then throws some water or whatever it is at the ones that do want it. Everyone else sits and watches without being offended at missing out, or unduly religionified.

quicklickpaddy

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think it's an issue of wishing to avoid religion, more a desire not to be forced into anything against your will. Wouldn't it be fairer and more practical to have a simple opt in policy for the blessing ceremony, rather than tell those who don't wish to take part that they can move to another town or school? Especially seen as at least 30% don't want to participate?

Yeah I completely agree with you. I think I said earlier that for most people it doesn't have to be a big issue but if you really really want to moving is usually an option (at least it is in built up areas). Not participating in the Catholic activities is obviously the best solution - that's what I was getting at by saying not having to adopt beliefs but you still have to do that respectfully.

Seachmall

hotmail.com wrote: »

Why do we have these religious schools.

Schools needed funding and the Church stepped up because they know you can't teach adults that there's an invisible man in the sky, you have to get them when they're kids!

Seloth

In the two secondary schools I've been too((First public and the 5th and 6th year in a private grinds one))Its never been a problem.

Any church event is generally optional and my old school was founded by presentation brothers who were still of its board.The school I'm in now we have a end of year mass but again optional but most go,no one really gives two ****s tbh its just mass.

Relgion in school for example,the subject taught other religouse studies as well and wasnt all ways a religiouse class,again in my old school they have it once a week((not as a school subject)) but in it they discuss philoshpe,drugs,social problems etc.

Religion isnt a problem generally in schools,well atleast most Irish schools and sher if you dont want to sit through somthing then you dont have too,if teachers complain then parents can call in.

mloc

No.

ChocolateSauce

OP, Get religion TF out of school, is my opinion. You should tell the school and the principle to piss off if they're trying to force this on you. What're they going to do, expel you? They can't block your leaving cert.

Miss Lockhart

Pittens wrote: »

Really? even very small towns seem to have at least one vocational school.

In my experience vocational schools in Ireland have a very strong Catholic influence. I went to one and teach in one and in the many VEC schools I'm familiar with, there is a mass for every event - including graduation.

It's something I'm very uncomfortable with. Don't get me wrong - nobody is forced into anything and they are happy for people to opt out, but I still don't think Catholic (or any other religious) ceremonies should be at the centre of any event in a VEC school.

Even recently, where I teach, we paused for the Our Father over the intercom to mark the passing of a former pupil. I was very uncomfortable with this as an atheist and I'm sure some our non-Christian students and staff were too. Why we couldn't simply have paused for a moment of general reflection is beyond me.

Seloth

In my old school again the few muslims that were in it didnt give two ****s,its just Irish culture,same with any athesits.