Turf cutting ban

vincenzolorenzo

reilig wrote: »

Recently, a friend, who is a full time farmer, applied for planning permission, and it was objected to by an taisce. A neighbour admitted to writing to an taisce because they did not like where the house was to be located. An taisce recommended that he buy a house in the local town which was 3 miles away. What a sham!!

Amen to that reilig, An Taisce are a complete sham

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

I have a view on turf cutting, but I also have a view on An Taisce and I do not believe that they are entitled to make their views known. Not in the way that they do anyway. To me, a farmer and rural dweller, an taisce are just a vehicle of objection for other rural dwellers. Now I am not biggoted. I am well aware of the role that an taisce claims to have. But there are a lot of people who do not know the role that an taisce take.

An taisce are a vehicle of objection. If my neighbour applys for planning permission on his own land, and I do not want him to build a house there because I do not like him or I do not like the location, then a nice letter to an taisce outlining my issues will see an objection put against the planning permission which will be signed by some nice man in Dublin who never set foot in the area and most likely never will. He will be the bad man, and I can show face to my neighbour and be critical of the people that objected to his planning permission and be secretly glad that his application was refused.

Now 12 months later, when his brother applies for planning permission on a similarly located site, just 50 yards away from the site that was refused, and I like his brother, he's great craic, he'd be a good neighbour. Where is an taisce now????? They don't even know that the planning permission has gone in because they did not reveive a request to object to planning permission on someone's behalf. He receives planning.

Now this is an organisation who claim to be doing things to benefit the environment. Are they really doing good or are they just there for the benefit of people???

Therefore I disagree with your statement that an taisce have every right to make their views known as I feel that they do not represent the views of rural dwellers. They may represent the views of a small minority of rural dwellers. They IFA, however, represent the views of the vast majority of Irish Farmers. And after all, it is the farmers who have taken care of the land and brought it to the level that it is at the moment.

You can talk about democracy, but there is still a major planning crisis in rural Ireland that is preventing farmers from building on their own land. One person can influence an organisation to object to a planing permission on their behalf. That's not democracy and in my opinion, they should not have the right to be able to do that. You can throw it all back at me about all the excess houses in the country and how the country went mad on a building boom. But that affects very few farmers.

Recently, a friend, who is a full time farmer, applied for planning permission, and it was objected to by an taisce. A neighbour admitted to writing to an taisce because they did not like where the house was to be located. An taisce recommended that he buy a house in the local town which was 3 miles away. What a sham!!

Houses and sites are not an alternative crop, but that seems to be the perception of some farmers, who get very upset if they're not allowed to plant a few.

It doesn't really matter who objects, it is really easy to get planning in rural Ireland. If your relation got refused, he must have either put in a sloppy application or there must have been a pretty blatant reason for the refusal. County Councils have been fairly flaithiúil with permissions - have a drive up any by-road if you don't believe me.

And I won't start on the IFA, they have a lot to answer for. They have led their membership up a cul de sac, with their cheque-in-the-post mentality. The IFA can't see past the end of their nose, but their membership keep paying the sub, keep buying the Journal every Thursday, and believing the baloney.

Your brother might be as well off living in town. If you had your way the whole countryside will become a housing estate anyway.

LostCovey

LostCovey

vcsggl wrote: »

OK LostCovey - I did say that life was not all good back in the old days! But there were many aspects of rural life that have changed for the worse. What really gets me now is the enthusiasm that so many have for the endless rules and regulations. It seems there is no room for anyone to take a personal, often very well informed, view on anything. I mentioned hedge cutting - no famer that I ever knew would ever have set out to cut their hedges in the late spring or summer, they were far too busy doing other things and they did actaully respect the wildlife and the country side. It was not necessary to impose a rigid rule about which date you can start and which date you must stop - but it keeps some office-bound bureaucrat happy and provides opportunities for some civil servants to harangue anybody who steps over the line. Despite what Uriel says about EU rules and penalties it is still the case that in rural France, Spain and Italy - longer-standing memebers of the EU than Ireland or the UK - if the local farmers or smallholders don't like the Brussels rules they simply ignore them. I know Spain far better than the other countries and certainly I've never come across any farmer who has been "fined" for breaking an EU rule. As I said at the outset it's the eager enthusiasm to embrace every new rule and regulation that I find so depressing rather than the rules themselves.
Forgive me for going on - one last anecdote and then I'll shut up!

I think it was about 1958/9 that I was returning from town with my Grandfather in his old Ford van. We were stopped by a Garda as we turned off the main road - Hello Mr Mills said the Garda - do you have the driving licence yet ? Indeed I do not, said my Gradfather, I just haven't had the time. Ah now, said the Garda you'd be better to get one, mind how you go now! That's the sort of attitude and philosophy that's missing from our lives these days!!

George

I know what you mean George, but as the saying goes "Without rules where would we be?"

The answer, of course, is France.

LostCovey

mossfort

LostCovey wrote: »

Houses and sites are not an alternative crop, but that seems to be the perception of some farmers, who get very upset if they're not allowed to plant a few.

It doesn't really matter who objects, it is really easy to get planning in rural Ireland. If your relation got refused, he must have either put in a sloppy application or there must have been a pretty blatant reason for the refusal. County Councils have been fairly flaithiúil with permissions - have a drive up any by-road if you don't believe me.

And I won't start on the IFA, they have a lot to answer for. They have led their membership up a cul de sac, with their cheque-in-the-post mentality. The IFA can't see past the end of their nose, but their membership keep paying the sub, keep buying the Journal every Thursday, and believing the baloney.

Your brother might be as well off living in town. If you had your way the whole countryside will become a housing estate anyway.

LostCovey

he didnt say the site was for selling so his brother might have a genuine housing need and has his own site on which to build which makes sense for him to apply for planning on it.
its not easy to get planning in rural ireland as you suggest as it varies from county to county and the environment in which the site is located.
i think city councils have been the faithful ones with granting planning as we have a surplus of overpriced unwanted housing in the cities at the moment.
hes making the point that an taisce a group which has no powers and which is run from dublin city should not send a letter of objection to a planning application on the basis of information they receive from a third party. then somebody on an adjoining site could get through an application witout a submission from an taisce. that just makes them look like a bunch of hypocrites. you description of the ifa is nonsense as their main role is to look after the interests of farmers as they are paid to do.
do you know porscheman.

mikom

LostCovey wrote: »

it is really easy to get planning in rural Ireland.

Was.

Try your luck in Connemara and see how you get on.

LostCovey

mikom wrote: »

Was.

Try your luck in Connemara and see how you get on.

As the previous poster pointed out, we have plenty of houses now! One for everyone in the audience (well at least the first half-million).

Try stopping to take a leak out of sight of a house - the countryside is covered in ugly white bungalows in bare exposed sites on hillocks with their suburban gardens, spanish roof tiles and satellite dishes.

If you need more of them for whatever reason, why not get the IFA to take on An Taisce if they are such a force for good in rural Ireland?

The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable.

LostCovey

LostCovey

mossfort wrote: »

do you know porscheman.

No.

Don't have a Porsche, man.

LostCovey

reilig

LostCovey wrote: »

As the previous poster pointed out, we have plenty of houses now! One for everyone in the audience (well at least the first half-million).

Try stopping to take a leak out of sight of a house - the countryside is covered in ugly white bungalows in bare exposed sites on hillocks with their suburban gardens, spanish roof tiles and satellite dishes.

If you need more of them for whatever reason, why not get the IFA to take on An Taisce if they are such a force for good in rural Ireland?

The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable.

LostCovey

That is completely off the point that I was making. We have an abundance of houses in this country. Hundreds of unfinished estates. Enough houses to meet the needs for the next decade without building any more. An taisce supported the building of estates because they were said to be more sustainable - services could be got near to larger groups of houses etc, etc. Its all good theory and I have no problem with it, in fact I'd go as far as to say that I would support the idea of people living closer together for a better way of life and better access to services - not to mention less of an enviroonmental impact.

The fact is that about 10% of farmers sold siites in this country during the building boom. Some sold numerous sites and made a lot of money out of it. The other side of the coin is farmers who do not believe in selling sites. I am one of those. I am against the selling of sites, but I am a firm believer that a farmer should be allowed to build on his own land and that if his/her sons/daughters intend to work on the land, they should be allowed to build on the land too. I think that it is very insulting to tell a farmer to buy a house that is a couple of miles away from his land. On top of that, how can anyone expect a farmer to run a farm when they are not living on it or near it??

The point that I was making was that an taisce are not there for the good of everyone, or the good of the environment. The fact that they can be selective on the objections that they make to planning permissions based on information received from third parties just go to prove this. Therefore, how can anybody take the recommendations, objections and views of an taisce as being correct?I for one cannot and I know for a fact that the vast majority of rural dwellers cannot either.

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

That is completely off the point that I was making. We have an abundance of houses in this country. Hundreds of unfinished estates. Enough houses to meet the needs for the next decade without building any more. An taisce supported the building of estates because they were said to be more sustainable - services could be got near to larger groups of houses etc, etc. Its all good theory and I have no problem with it, in fact I'd go as far as to say that I would support the idea of people living closer together for a better way of life and better access to services - not to mention less of an enviroonmental impact.

The fact is that about 10% of farmers sold siites in this country during the building boom. Some sold numerous sites and made a lot of money out of it. The other side of the coin is farmers who do not believe in selling sites. I am one of those. I am against the selling of sites, but I am a firm believer that a farmer should be allowed to build on his own land and that if his/her sons/daughters intend to work on the land, they should be allowed to build on the land too. I think that it is very insulting to tell a farmer to buy a house that is a couple of miles away from his land. On top of that, how can anyone expect a farmer to run a farm when they are not living on it or near it??

The point that I was making was that an taisce are not there for the good of everyone, or the good of the environment. The fact that they can be selective on the objections that they make to planning permissions based on information received from third parties just go to prove this. Therefore, how can anybody take the recommendations, objections and views of an taisce as being correct?I for one cannot and I know for a fact that the vast majority of rural dwellers cannot either.

Do you really believe that An Taisce are an evil conspiracy out to ruin your life? I don't agree with everything they do, but all they are capable of is articulating a view. The decision lies with the local authority. If An Taisce's objection had no basis, the Co Co would reject it. If you feel hard done by appeal to An Bord Pleanála. ABP are not the friendliest of organisations but they are straight

Planning in this country is not corrupt. It used to be, and some are nostalgic for those days.

If you want to give your kids sites, best of luck. The next generation will be first cousins and they will fight like cats in a sack. And they will probably object to each others' planning applications.

LostCovey

PS Maybe An Taisce are responsible for the sudden appearance of all those Pine Martens.

mossfort

LostCovey wrote: »

Do you really believe that An Taisce are an evil conspiracy out to ruin your life? I don't agree with everything they do, but all they are capable of is articulating a view. The decision lies with the local authority. If An Taisce's objection had no basis, the Co Co would reject it. If you feel hard done by appeal to An Bord Pleanála. ABP are not the friendliest of organisations but they are straight

Planning in this country is not corrupt. It used to be, and some are nostalgic for those days.

If you want to give your kids sites, best of luck. The next generation will be first cousins and they will fight like cats in a sack. And they will probably object to each others' planning applications.

LostCovey

PS Maybe An Taisce are responsible for the sudden appearance of all those Pine Martens.

LostCovey

mossfort wrote: »

this guy is just a wind up merchant or troll as he is at the same thing on the hunting forum. hes just trying to draw people out and get responses.

This guy is sincere. I just hold a different opinion to you.

I have the same right to express it as you have.

To a member of An Taisce (which I am not) your contribution would qualify as trolling.

LostCovey

LostCovey

mossfort wrote: »

this guy is just a wind up merchant or troll as he is at the same thing on the hunting forum. hes just trying to draw people out and get responses.

PS

This was a thread on turf-cutting. If you are going to play forum policeman, then at least recognise that your bit about your brother's planning permission took it off-topic.

I apologise for going with you, and for responding to your provocative off-topic post.

LostCovey

reilig

You seem to be making things up. I never stated or suggested that an taisce were out to ruin my life, nor have they had any impact on my life or any of my family's life. I was making the point about an taisce's ability to influence planning permissions on behalf of third parties and using this point to show that an taisce's views on turf cutting are not credible. I think that I have proven this.

It was you who brought in a load of extra stuff into the debate about my family, about an imaginary conspiracy that an taisce have to ruin my life, and a load of information about county councils and an board pleanala that has nothing to do with the point that I was making and this seems to only be bringing us off the original topic of the turf cutting ban.

LostCovey wrote: »

Do you really believe that An Taisce are an evil conspiracy out to ruin your life? I don't agree with everything they do, but all they are capable of is articulating a view. The decision lies with the local authority. If An Taisce's objection had no basis, the Co Co would reject it. If you feel hard done by appeal to An Bord Pleanála. ABP are not the friendliest of organisations but they are straight

Planning in this country is not corrupt. It used to be, and some are nostalgic for those days.

If you want to give your kids sites, best of luck. The next generation will be first cousins and they will fight like cats in a sack. And they will probably object to each others' planning applications.

LostCovey

PS Maybe An Taisce are responsible for the sudden appearance of all those Pine Martens.

vincenzolorenzo

LostCovey wrote: »

As the previous poster pointed out, we have plenty of houses now! One for everyone in the audience (well at least the first half-million).

Try stopping to take a leak out of sight of a house - the countryside is covered in ugly white bungalows in bare exposed sites on hillocks with their suburban gardens, spanish roof tiles and satellite dishes.

If you need more of them for whatever reason, why not get the IFA to take on An Taisce if they are such a force for good in rural Ireland?

The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable.

LostCovey

No doubt there's plenty of houses in the country but not everyone wants to live in a housing estate / town. And who in their right mind would prefer to live in an unfinished ghost estate rather than build a house that they actually like? You might find this hard to believe but some of us actually enjoy living in bungalows out in the country! And i know of no house anywhere near me (kildare) with spanish roof tiles. In fact its very difficult to get planning for even a fairly standard style house, let alone an unusual one

mikom

LostCovey wrote: »

it is really easy to get planning in rural Ireland.

LostCovey wrote: »

As the previous poster pointed out, we have plenty of houses now!

Making it up as you go along TBH.
Is it or isn't it easy to get planning.

You'd think a small flock of birds could come up with a solid answer.

The_Conductor

As this topic has clearly meandered away from the original intent (discussing the turf cutting ban) I am now closing it.

Regards,

SMcCarrick