The Dark Knight Rises - Pre-release Discussion [** NO SPOILERS PLEASE **]

kdevitt

Just re-watched the teaser trailer there. Thinking about Gordon's quote ' the Batman must come back' and the 8 year gap between the two movies, I wonder if Batman has retired between the two movies and him returning to action if the 'rises' part of the title.

Getting exciting now!

Sad Professor

My biggest fear about the 8 year gap is that it is just a way for Nolan to avoid having to deal with the consequences of TDK's ending. "Oh crap, do we have to resolve all that business about Batman being persona non grata? Let's just jump forward 8 years and forget about it." I loved the ending to TDK and would hate to think it's going to get glossed over with a few lines of dialogue in the third film.

But hopefully the 8 year gap serves an important purpose in the story. Like maybe Batman is gone (for whatever reason) during those 8 years, or maybe Nolan will fill them in via flashback like he did in Batman Begins.

Mickeroo

Sad Professor wrote: »

My biggest fear about the 8 year gap is that it is just a way for Nolan to avoid having to deal with the consequences of TDK's ending. "Oh crap, do we have to resolve all that business about Batman being persona non grata? Let's just jump forward 8 years and forget about it." I loved the ending to TDK and would hate to think it's going to get glossed over with a few lines of dialogue in the third film.

But hopefully the 8 year gap serves an important purpose in the story. Like maybe Batman is gone (for whatever reason) during those 8 years, or maybe Nolan will fill them in via flashback like he did in Batman Begins.

True that, it seemed like that ending was setting us up for a plotline involving Batman as public enemy number 1, really would be a shame if we don't get to see that.

phil1nj

With all this talk of an 8 year gap between movies, I'm starting to think that, in addition to the Knightfall storyline - broken bat, Nolan has also taken a few ideas from "The Dark Knight Returns" graphic novel (Batman has gone/retired, Gotham has gone to crap, criminals are running amok etc).

It would explain the pictures of the Batwing that have crept up in leaked set photos (that looks like an absolute beast of a thing). TDKR had Batman driving what can only be described as a tank for a Batmobile so there are similarities there along with the "absence" element as well.

Just a thought.

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

With such a long gap we might see some small elements from The Dark Knight Returns sneaking into the storyline, apart from his age of course, still reckon this will be taking most of it's inspiration from Knightfall though.

phil1nj wrote: »

With all this talk of an 8 year gap between movies, I'm starting to think that, in addition to the Knightfall storyline - broken bat, Nolan has also taken a few ideas from "The Dark Knight Returns" graphic novel (Batman has gone/retired, Gotham has gone to crap, criminals are running amok etc).

It would explain the pictures of the Batwing that have crept up in leaked set photos (that looks like an absolute beast of a thing). TDKR had Batman driving what can only be described as a tank for a Batmobile so there are similarities there along with the "absence" element as well.

Just a thought.

*cough* :pac:

Would be inclined to agree. I always thought the tumbler took a lot of inspiration from TDK Returns' batmobile/tank.

pixelburp

IF the new movie follows the arc of batman being broken, then perhaps the manhunt for him is called off after the first year of his disappearance. OR, Bruce Wayne suddenly appearing stuck in a wheelchair might cause Gordon and co. to put 2 and 2 together, or force Wayne to own up. Going by the teaser trailer, it looks like Gordon might know Bruce Wayne's secret so perhaps he closes that line of investigation after learning Batman's fate.

phil1nj

Mickeroo wrote: »

*cough* :pac:

Would be inclined to agree. I always thought the tumbler took a lot of inspiration from TDK Returns' batmobile/tank.

Apologies, didn't see your previous post (I've been away from this thread for a while but eventually gave in to temptation and returned once I saw this months Empire article).

Folks can we please all accept that the 'leaked' prologue mentioned every few posts in this forum (the one picking up straight after Dark Knight) is nothing but pure fan fiction? No f**k it, that's not a question, it's a demand

There is no way under the sun that everything contained in it would fit into 6 minutes on screen, no matter how rushed it was.

There is no way that Nolan would have built the Joker up so much (and the message of order vs anarchy vs choice) in TDK only to have Joker exposed in the next movie as a pawn of Bane's, where Bane was watching from the sidelines and waiting to pounce once this Joker dude f**ked up.

There's no way there will be that much action in the prologue, and I seriously doubt we'll even see Batman in the forthcoming prologue.

Actually there is a 'that's more like it' leaked prologue online which is more than likely what we're going to see. I won't spoil here, it's out there and easy to find.

As for a back-breaking scene, i'm not ruling that out, but personally I don't see that happening. My take on it is that Batman/ Wayne will disappear for the bulk of the 8 years as to the public he is now a murderer. If this is going to be coming full circle and tying in with Batman Begins (as has been mentioned by Nolan and some of the actors) I wouldn't be surprised to see more footage of Bruce in the wilderness, trying to find himself again. In the meantime, Bane comes in and is allowed to run rampant in Gotham. Hence Gordan's "The bat must come back".

As regards the picture of Bane holding up a photo of Harvey Dent. Rather than Bane 'outing' Harvey as two-face as has been mentioned in this forum earlier, I would say what is going on there is he is trying to remind the people that Batman is just as evil as Bane himself. Why would he out Harvey as two-face? This would exonorate Batman and get the people of Gotham behind him once more.

I have lots more theories, but the moral here is: PLEASE stop treating fan fiction as a leaked spoiler. Full credit to the guy who wrote it, it is full of action and suspense, but mark my words it is fake. I will be proven correct in a few weeks. And if on the slight 0.001% chance that I am wrong, I will buy a hat, call it mine, and eat it.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

IF the new movie follows the arc of batman being broken, then perhaps the manhunt for him is called off after the first year of his disappearance. OR, Bruce Wayne suddenly appearing stuck in a wheelchair might cause Gordon and co. to put 2 and 2 together, or force Wayne to own up. Going by the teaser trailer, it looks like Gordon might know Bruce Wayne's secret so perhaps he closes that line of investigation after learning Batman's fate.

Batman will appear in this scene as he did in BB where he first approached Gordan in his office, black clothes, balaclava.

Mickeroo

stankratz wrote: »

As for a back-breaking scene, i'm not ruling that out, but personally I don't see that happening. My take on it is that Batman/ Wayne will disappear for the bulk of the 8 years as to the public he is now a murderer. If this is going to be coming full circle and tying in with Batman Begins (as has been mentioned by Nolan and some of the actors) I wouldn't be surprised to see more footage of Bruce in the wilderness, trying to find himself again. In the meantime, Bane comes in and is allowed to run rampant in Gotham. Hence Gordan's "The bat must come back".

Have avoided most of the stuff about the prologue because of spoilers which I just now read in you post so I wasn't really aware of whats coming in that regard. Having said that I seriously doubt they're going to have Bane as the main villain and not have him break Batman's back(or at the very least seriously injure him), it's one of the most well known Batman plotlines there is and certainly the most iconic one for Bane. Its obvious Bats disappears for a long time even from the teaser trailer alone I think.

Sad Professor

stankratz wrote: »

There is no way that Nolan would have built the Joker up so much (and the message of order vs anarchy vs choice) in TDK only to have Joker exposed in the next movie as a pawn of Bane's, where Bane was watching from the sidelines and waiting to pounce once this Joker dude f**ked up.

Bane standing on the sidelines while Batman is exhausted by fighting other villains is exactly what happens in the comics though. It would makes perfect sense for Nolan to build on the events of TDK in this way. No one is every going to exhaust Batman like the Joker did.

But assuming that Bane does break Batman’s back, the direction the story takes really depends on when in the film he does this. The fact that the film is called The Dark Knight Rises rather than The Dark Knight Falls would suggest it happens fairly early. I also think that from a marketing perspective it makes a lot of sense to break Batman in the first 10 minutes. Then they can sell Bane in all the posters as “I broke the Bat!” Otherwise they’ll have to keep this a secret - except it won’t really be a secret. Everyone already knows what Bane is famous for doing to Batman in the comics. So if Nolan is as smart as we think he is, the prologue will play out more or less exactly as that earlier "leaked prologue" suggested.

Sad Professor

Sad Professor wrote: »

My biggest fear about the 8 year gap is that it is just a way for Nolan to avoid having to deal with the consequences of TDK's ending. "Oh crap, do we have to resolve all that business about Batman being persona non grata? Let's just jump forward 8 years and forget about it." I loved the ending to TDK and would hate to think it's going to get glossed over with a few lines of dialogue in the third film.

But hopefully the 8 year gap serves an important purpose in the story. Like maybe Batman is gone (for whatever reason) during those 8 years, or maybe Nolan will fill them in via flashback like he did in Batman Begins.

Essentially that was probably a factor in the decision to leap forward 8 years. Not because they can't come up with a decent story but because it will help seem realistic that there isn't a whole lot of talk about Joker and his trail of destruction. I'm expecting a few throwaway comments to update us on the Joker's status, and ideally that sucks, but ideally Heath Ledger wouldn't have left us so young. I'm sure when they filmed the TDK ending, they had a rough idea where they wanted to bring the 3rd movie, but all bets were off once Ledger died. Whatever TDKR is like, it won't be the movie originally intended. I'm not saying it will be worse, in fact i'm fully expecting it to melt faces

pixelburp

stankratz wrote: »

Batman will appear in this scene as he did in BB where he first approached Gordan in his office, black clothes, balaclava.

Maybe - I'd have to watch the trailer again, but I think Bale was speaking in his own voice, not Batman's gravelly tones. He says something like "What if he didn't exist anymore?" or a line to that effect; it wouldn't make sense if he were standing in any kind of disguise or the full costume.

Gordon & Batman already trust each other enough to create the fake manhunt, don't think it's that big a leap for Gordon to learn Bats' identity.

phil1nj

stankratz wrote: »

.

As for a back-breaking scene, i'm not ruling that out, but personally I don't see that happening. My take on it is that Batman/ Wayne will disappear for the bulk of the 8 years as to the public he is now a murderer. If this is going to be coming full circle and tying in with Batman Begins (as has been mentioned by Nolan and some of the actors) I wouldn't be surprised to see more footage of Bruce in the wilderness, trying to find himself again. In the meantime, Bane comes in and is allowed to run rampant in Gotham. Hence Gordan's "The bat must come back".
.

I don't know about this. There has already been leaked on set footage of Bruce Wayne turning up at a hotel and using a cane to hobble to the entrance. Also, looking at the teaser trailer again (with an injured Gordon lying in a hospital bed), it appears that Bruce Wayne is resting a hand on a cane also. Couple that with the final shot of a clearly in trouble Batman staggering back from Bane's approach, these to me suggest some sort of physical trauma will beset the Batman.

Sad Professor

stankratz wrote: »

Essentially that was probably a factor in the decision to leap forward 8 years. Not because they can't come up with a decent story but because it will help seem realistic that there isn't a whole lot of talk about Joker and his trail of destruction. I'm expecting a few throwaway comments to update us on the Joker's status, and ideally that sucks, but ideally Heath Ledger wouldn't have left us so young. I'm sure when they filmed the TDK ending, they had a rough idea where they wanted to bring the 3rd movie, but all bets were off once Ledger died. Whatever TDKR is like, it won't be the movie originally intended. I'm not saying it will be worse, in fact i'm fully expecting it to melt faces

Perhaps, and if that’s the case I’ll be very disappointed. But the best possible reason I can see for the 8 year gap is that Bruce is paralysed and recovering from a broken spine during those years. As we discussed many times in this thread, the problem of how to break Batman’s back in a 2 hour film and have him recover in time to kick ass again isn’t easy to solve. Jumping ahead 8 years would be the best way to get around this problem. After 8 years Bruce would almost certainly be enjoying some limited recovery from his physical injuries, allowing the rest of the film to focus on his mental recovery.

Of course, this doesn’t explain what Bane is doing during those years. But maybe he breaks Batman only to get captured and imprisoned afterwards. Then he breaks free 8 years later and starts his reign of terror.

Mickeroo I'm sorry if I 'spoiled' anything on you, but as I feel very strongly that the prologue is fake, I haven't spoiled anything on you. Seriously if you actually read it, your heart would almost jump out of your chest it is that good, but it screams fan fiction and there is simply far too much in it to fit into 6 minutes.

I want to see Batman broken, I want to see him reduced to a pile of bones on the ground, it just increases the stakes to make the come-back all the more enthralling. That scene from the teaser where he's stumbling as Bane marches towards him, that's the kinda shít I'm looking for.

Sad Professor that would make for an excellent marketing campaign alright, and not out of line with the 'I believe in Harvey Dent' campaign for TDK. I just feel that the prologue is going to be a Bane origin story/ introduction to the L.O.S.

For the record, I am a Batman freak but have never read the comics:eek: It is only now in my late 20s that I'm getting the urge to pick up a comic.

Oh and I'd totally love if the 'leaked prologue' was genuine, just can't see it for my previous reasons.

Professey Chin

stankratz wrote: »

For the record, I am a Batman freak but have never read the comics:eek: It is only now in my late 20s that I'm getting the urge to pick up a comic.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe - I'd have to watch the trailer again, but I think Bale was speaking in his own voice, not Batman's gravelly tones. He says something like "What if he didn't exist anymore?" or a line to that effect; it wouldn't make sense if he were standing in any kind of disguise or the full costume.

Gordon & Batman already trust each other enough to create the fake manhunt, don't think it's that big a leap for Gordon to learn Bats' identity.

No I don't think it would be a big leap either, in fact I want Gordan to know. But Bales voice in that scene from the teaser sounded very much to me like the voice he used in BB where he first approached Gordan. I.e. Not Batman's but not Wayne's either, it is a loud whisper. Jesus I don't want to come across here as a 'know it all' and dismissing decent people's ideas. I have no inside info to back up my theories, just using the bit of common sense I bought in a car boot sale last week. We're all on the same side here, we want this movie to rock and to 'f**k off' the "Nolan's Batman sucks/ Bane isn't big enough" brigade!

Sad Professor

Sad Professor wrote: »

Perhaps, and if that’s the case I’ll be very disappointed. But the best possible reason I can see for the 8 year gap is that Bruce is paralysed and recovering from a broken spine during those years. As we discussed many times in this thread, the problem of how to break Batman’s back in a 2 hour film and have him recover in time to kick ass again isn’t easy to solve. Jumping ahead 8 years would be the best way to get around this problem. After 8 years Bruce would almost certainly be enjoying some limited recovery from his physical injuries, allowing the rest of the film to focus on his mental recovery.

Of course, this doesn’t explain what Bane is doing during those years. But maybe he breaks Batman only to get captured and imprisoned afterwards. Then he breaks free 8 years later and starts his reign of terror.

You just basically wrote my response with your second paragraph! Before the revelation that this will take place 8 years after TDK, I would have said there was absolutely no way they could break Batman's back. But now with their timeline jump it is possible. But that just raises a load more questions for me , like you acknowledged, what does Bane do with all this time? But maybe, rather than get imprisoned, he does build an empire over 8 years that brings Gotham to it's knees, again significantly raising the steaks for Batman. Ahhh this is gonna be f**king epic!!

Handsome Bob

That's the one doubt I have about a back breaking happening though, surely Bane wouldn't be allowed to build up an empire in Gotham over 8 years? There are outside forces that wouldn't let that happen. It's almost like expecting the US military not to care that someone has basically annexed a city of the US.

Liamario

Handsome Bob wrote: »

That's the one doubt I have about a back breaking happening though, surely Bane wouldn't be allowed to build up an empire in Gotham over 8 years? There are outside forces that wouldn't let that happen. It's almost like expecting the US military not to care that someone has basically annexed a city of the US.

I agree, I suspect that batman is more likely to be in hiding, watching all the crime happen from the shadows. But, as Bane shows up in his small military outfit, batman has to come back.

phil1nj

Handsome Bob wrote: »

That's the one doubt I have about a back breaking happening though, surely Bane wouldn't be allowed to build up an empire in Gotham over 8 years? There are outside forces that wouldn't let that happen. It's almost like expecting the US military not to care that someone has basically annexed a city of the US.

Unless, as already suggested, he's in prision and building his empire from within (recruiting some of the guys Batman put away). This would tie in with the leaked pictures/footage of the suppossed prision break seen so far.

Also, the league of shadows will make a re-appearence via Talia Al Ghul so it's not like he is totally on his own in taking over Gotham (and the league have been around for centuries so an 8 year wait is not that long for them). It'll be interesting to see how all of theses strands get tied together.

pixelburp

Handsome Bob wrote: »

That's the one doubt I have about a back breaking happening though, surely Bane wouldn't be allowed to build up an empire in Gotham over 8 years? There are outside forces that wouldn't let that happen. It's almost like expecting the US military not to care that someone has basically annexed a city of the US.

Yeah, this has been my first thought about the rumours Bane was going to stage a coup in the city; surely the state or national authorities would come steaming in at the first sign of trouble. That at a minimum they would send in the National Guard once Bane & his mercs turn up.

Turtyturd

Handsome Bob wrote: »

That's the one doubt I have about a back breaking happening though, surely Bane wouldn't be allowed to build up an empire in Gotham over 8 years? There are outside forces that wouldn't let that happen. It's almost like expecting the US military not to care that someone has basically annexed a city of the US.

If it wasn't for Nolans 'realistic' take on Batman that would be a nice connection to the Cataclysm/No-Mans Land storyline.

Events over the 8 years cause the Government to walk away from Gotham and when everyone is left to fend for themselves Bane rises to the top. Gordon leads a bunch of police officers who stay behind attempting to maintain Law and order but ends up seriously injured by Bane leading to the hospital scene. Cue Batmans return/big showdown with Bane and the final scene of him looking over a crumbling Gotham talking about how it can be rebuilt, mirroring the end of Batman Begins.

Dunno if it has already been mentioned but it would be nice to see Batman being broken in the prologue...yes it is a big secne which people need to be aware of but if it was marketed right everyone would be aware of it prior to going to see that movie and it would allow for the film to begin 8 years later. Plastering a big scsene like that all over the media would also help increase anticipation.

Aint been in this thread in a while but it is nice to have a concrete idea of what is going on and not have to read post after post debating the qualities of Eddie Murphy vs Johnny Depp for playing the riddler....or that Eric Roberts will be the Penguin because his legs got squashed when Batman threw him from a balcony.

Mickeroo

stankratz wrote: »

Mickeroo I'm sorry if I 'spoiled' anything on you, but as I feel very strongly that the prologue is fake, I haven't spoiled anything on you. Seriously if you actually read it, your heart would almost jump out of your chest it is that good, but it screams fan fiction and there is simply far too much in it to fit into 6 minutes.

Ah yer grand even if itdoes turn out to be true its only the first 6 minutes anyway THing is I have this niggling thing at the back of y mind that Nolan wants us to know all this stuff only to completely surprise us with the actual film. Security was so tight when the TDK was being filmed, there were very little details available that I find it hard to believe they would let so much get out about this one. He's a cooking up something :P

stankratz wrote: »

I want to see Batman broken, I want to see him reduced to a pile of bones on the ground, it just increases the stakes to make the come-back all the more enthralling. That scene from the teaser where he's stumbling as Bane marches towards him, that's the kinda shít I'm looking for.

Sad Professor that would make for an excellent marketing campaign alright, and not out of line with the 'I believe in Harvey Dent' campaign for TDK. I just feel that the prologue is going to be a Bane origin story/ introduction to the L.O.S.

For the record, I am a Batman freak but have never read the comics:eek: It is only now in my late 20s that I'm getting the urge to pick up a comic.

Oh and I'd totally love if the 'leaked prologue' was genuine, just can't see it for my previous reasons.

You really need to get on to that man!! Year One, The Dark Knight Returns, THe Kiling Joke, Knightfall, The Long Holloween are good places to start!

pixelburp

In fairness, I too have never read a Batman comic, bar "Batman vs. Judge Dredd" way back in the 1990s.

I grew up with the classic Warner Brothers cartoons allright, had seen the Tim Burton movies also. And thanks to the internet, cultural osmosis, and my general geekiness, I know more about Batman lore than is healthy, but I've never actually bought & read a Batman comic.

Mickeroo

pixelburp wrote: »

In fairness, I too have never read a Batman comic, bar "Batman vs. Judge Dredd" way back in the 1990s.

I grew up with the classic Warner Brothers cartoons allright, had seen the Tim Burton movies also. And thanks to the internet, cultural osmosis, and my general geekiness, I know more about Batman lore than is healthy, but I've never actually bought & read a Batman comic.

Think I read that back in the day too. I grew up on the animated series too though, outside of the books its the best representation of Batman there is. It still is imo. I only started reading the books within the lat ten years or so, its well worth it though!

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Ah yer grand even if itdoes turn out to be true its only the first 6 minutes anyway THing is I have this niggling thing at the back of y mind that Nolan wants us to know all this stuff only to completely surprise us with the actual film. Security was so tight when the TDK was being filmed, there were very little details available that I find it hard to believe they would let so much get out about this one. He's a cooking up something :P



You really need to get on to that man!! Year One, The Dark Knight Returns, THe Kiling Joke, Knightfall, The Long Holloween are good places to start!

No doubt Nolan is cooking up something alright, he is a bit of a master of misdirection. Of all the theories posted on this forum and numerous others across the web, no doubt some people will correctly guess some of the plot points, but Nolan will totally blow our minds with a couple of things that no one would have seen coming. As you alluded to, there is just far too much amateur footage and news about TDKR out in the public domain for it to be as it appears, considering the lack of such footage from TDK, ah my head's gonna explode before July 12th thinking about it all!

Like pixelburp, I also got my Batman fix from the WB cartoons and Burton films, as well as all the toys Santa could carry when I was younger, up to coming out of 'gaming retirement' to play the last couple of Batman: Arkham Series games. I was just not into comics as a yound lad. By the sounds of some of the things I've heard about the comic stories you mentioned, they'd be right up my street, I will most certainly be taking a trip to the comic store in the next week or two.

phil1nj

phil1nj wrote: »

I don't know about this. There has already been leaked on set footage of Bruce Wayne turning up at a hotel and using a cane to hobble to the entrance. Also, looking at the teaser trailer again (with an injured Gordon lying in a hospital bed), it appears that Bruce Wayne is resting a hand on a cane also. Couple that with the final shot of a clearly in trouble Batman staggering back from Bane's approach, these to me suggest some sort of physical trauma will beset the Batman.

I did hear about that leaked footage of Bale with the cane, so it is shaping up that Batman's gonna get an awful hammering at some point. Not to throw water on the 'back-breaking' fire, but the use of a cane can signify any number of things apart from recovering from a broken spine. Ingrown toenail perhaps? I didn't notice Wayne or a cain in the teaser when he was speaking to Gordon, but in fairness I should've got glasses at least 5 years ago!

paddy kerins

Convenient rumour popped up today saying Ellen Page is gonna be playing Barbara Gordon. I'm sure it's a load of bull:D