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AGS and the Ethics of a 2nd job
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26-04-2010 8:02pm#1
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So employ spindoctors or PR consultants? What policing problems is that going to solve?
Its bad enough having to listen to politiicians spouting ****e that has been handed to them by overpaid pr flunkies without AGS starting this too.
Yes, I believe they should advertise their presence, and if their representatives want to protest about anything, then protest that without sufficient resources and manpower they can not keep your average law abiding citizen with at least the illusion of safety. The gardai need respect borne from the average public citizen knowing that if they need them, AGS is there. Right now if my home was broken into I dont have total trust that the Gardai would provide protection. I believe they would show up hours later, dust a bit and give a report.
This is not because I have had this experience, this is because I have heard the experiences of others who have. I am your normal citizen who stays out of trouble, there are many others like me.
I know this idea might make some members cringe, but what exactly is wrong with something like this?
Also, stop taking offense because I am criticising. If anyone should be able to handle criticism its the countrys police force.0 -
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Yes, I believe they should advertise their presence, and if their representatives want to protest about anything, then protest that without sufficient resources and manpower they can not keep your average law abiding citizen with at least the illusion of safety. The gardai need respect borne from the average public citizen knowing that if they need them, AGS is there.
Their reps have been protesting. Nobody listens to them. If there is an urgent call that involves a risk of injury or death Gardaí always give it priority.Right now if my home was broken into I dont have total trust that the Gardai would provide protection. I believe they would show up hours later, dust a bit and give a report.
This is not because I have had this experience, this is because I have heard the experiences of others who have. I am your normal citizen who stays out of trouble, there are many others like me.
I heard the earth was flat. Doesn't mean I believe it. If your home is broken into and you are there and you call the gardaí it is given high priority. If you come home to find your house has been broken into it is not treated as urgent.I know this idea might make some members cringe, but what exactly is wrong with something like this?
Waste of money that isn't there.Also, stop taking offense because I am criticising. If anyone should be able to handle criticism its the countrys police force.
Why? Do you not think we get enough of it on a regular basis? Criticism should generally be based on facts. What you have there is a bandwagon.0 -
Yes, I believe they should advertise their presence, and if their representatives want to protest about anything, then protest that without sufficient resources and manpower they can not keep your average law abiding citizen with at least the illusion of safety. The gardai need respect borne from the average public citizen knowing that if they need them, AGS is there. Right now if my home was broken into I dont have total trust that the Gardai would provide protection. I believe they would show up hours later, dust a bit and give a report.
This is not because I have had this experience, this is because I have heard the experiences of others who have. I am your normal citizen who stays out of trouble, there are many others like me.
I know this idea might make some members cringe, but what exactly is wrong with something like this?
Also, stop taking offense because I am criticising. If anyone should be able to handle criticism its the countrys police force.
Pictures of cops on the back of a bus would help restore your trust in the An Garda Siochana? I'd say the local hooligans would be shi&&in themselves:D
I'm not a Garda by the way so i can't be offended by your criticism.0 -
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Yes, I believe they should advertise their presence, and if their representatives want to protest about anything, then protest that without sufficient resources and manpower they can not keep your average law abiding citizen with at least the illusion of safety. The gardai need respect borne from the average public citizen knowing that if they need them, AGS is there.
You prefer the illusion of policing as opposed to proper policing?
Did you know that at any one time day or night there are roughly 3,000 gardai working in Ireland with a population of 4.5 million?
Do you realise that when a person dials 999, they are not the only one dialling that number?Right now if my home was broken into I dont have total trust that the Gardai would provide protection. I believe they would show up hours later, dust a bit and give a report.
This is not because I have had this experience, this is because I have heard the experiences of others who have. I am your normal citizen who stays out of trouble, there are many others like me.
Taking a report and subsequent scene of crimes are only a very small part but important part of a burglary investigation. After you make a report of burglary the process of investigation begins which can take several hours actively investigating it. It is not simply have a look around and dust a few areas as you are implying.I know this idea might make some members cringe, but what exactly is wrong with something like this?
Are you serious?
I would prefer money being spent on a new car for my station.
I would prefer money being spent on a couple of more computers for my files.
I would prefer money being spent on recruiting more Gardai.
I would prefer money being spent on purpose built stations to increase safety for Gardai and prisoners.
I would prefer money being spent on proper and practical uniform.
I would prefer money being spent on continuous training.
These are just a few things I would likeAlso, stop taking offense because I am criticising. If anyone should be able to handle criticism its the countrys police force.
There is only so much criticism a person can take. I tend to ignore them now. Not worth listening to, most of them anyway.0 -
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Taking a report and subsequent scene of crimes are only a very small part but important part of a burglary investigation. After you make a report of burglary the process of investigation begins which can take several hours actively investigating it. It is not simply have a look around and dust a few areas as you are implying.
In fairness, as much as I like AGS, unless it's a serious burglary were hundreds of thousands of euro of stuff goes missing, I've never seen any 'dusting' or investigation done at a burglary. I've also never seen a thief found out at a later date, nor items returned (that's just in my own personal experience, and in fairness, such situations aren't just limited to Ireland).
Anyway, my thoughts on Gardaì getting second jobs is a bit mixed. On one hand I can't see any issue with Gardaì delivering my post, selling me sweets at the corner shop or sweeping roads or such.
However, I do have an issue with Gardaì being bouncers and the likes. Those are dangerous jobs and people get hurt doing them a lot of the time. I don't want my local Gardaì doing potentially dangerous jobs when they should be relaxing or sleeping.
And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the Garda who has to beat a violent scumbag into the back of his car, only to bump into him and his several mates at a pub/club later in the evening.
They should be allowed have second jobs if they feel up to it, but the jobs should have to be approved by the station's Superintendent.
As said above, though, they should be allowed to rent themselves out as Gardaì (though this obviously goes against the "don't dress like a guard when you're off duty" rule... if that rule exists? I'm sure it does?!)Then why is the only thing that is immediately visible to the public your representative organisation asking for more pay?
Would you be a Garda for minimum wage? I feel they are among a small group of people who earn their money. Much as I hate to say it, having "Garda" on your vest is like wearing a reticule in some places.
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Yes, I believe they should advertise their presence, and if their representatives want to protest about anything, then protest that without sufficient resources and manpower they can not keep your average law abiding citizen with at least the illusion of safety. The gardai need respect borne from the average public citizen knowing that if they need them, AGS is there. Right now if my home was broken into I dont have total trust that the Gardai would provide protection. I believe they would show up hours later, dust a bit and give a report.
This is not because I have had this experience, this is because I have heard the experiences of others who have. I am your normal citizen who stays out of trouble, there are many others like me.
I know this idea might make some members cringe, but what exactly is wrong with something like this?
Also, stop taking offense because I am criticising. If anyone should be able to handle criticism its the countrys police force.
Have you seen where the exhaust pipe is!?0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »
Would you be a Garda for minimum wage? I feel they are among a small group of people who earn their money. Much as I hate to say it, having "Garda" on your vest is like wearing a reticule in some places.
No! Not what I am trying to say. It is not unskilled work. I just dont think they should be harming their public image by letting their representative group (I cant say union) make these statements.
The fastest way to alienate AGS is to adopt a me feiner attitude, as the public view of the Gardai is to "protect others".0 -
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Then why is the only thing that is immediately visible to the public your representative organisation asking for more pay?
Therefore increasing the hostility to the private sector - In this case the Gardai.
Try and see it from an average Joe point of view rather than taking it like "everyone is against us"
Pay and conditions is on the agenda for every PS union. We do realise the country's finances are in the doghouse but why target the PS so much? We have already taken deductions in pay. As I said earlier I have taken approx 30% deduction. How much more am I expected to take before I dont have enough money to travel to work or meet my financial obligations?Deleted User wrote: »In fairness, as much as I like AGS, unless it's a serious burglary were hundreds of thousands of euro of stuff goes missing, I've never seen any 'dusting' or investigation done at a burglary. I've also never seen a thief found out at a later date, nor items returned (that's just in my own personal experience, and in fairness, such situations aren't just limited to Ireland).
In fairness all burglaries are investigated not only by the guard who arrived at your door but also the crime/detective unit. Dont in any way rely what is shown on a TV show as fact. Far too many people do that already.
Funny story I heard in the college:
One lecturer who was involved in setting up a Forensic Science course in a civilain college was asked on an open day: At what stage do we get our guns?
No! Not what I am trying to say. It is not unskilled work. I just dont think they should be harming their public image by letting their representative group (I cant say union) make these statements.
The fastest way to alienate AGS is to adopt a me feiner attitude, as the public view of the Gardai is to "protect others".
So by your example people who were recently unemployed shouldnt highlight their financial difficulties in case it damages the Social Welfare image?
Come on seriously. Why shouldnt we highlight problems in our working conditions? In actual fact the problems in our working conditions has been highlighted for years on end which have included pay, radio systems, cars, stations etc etc etc. Most of these never reached much media attention except for the Blue Flu.Stop replying to me as one person. I am trying to tell you what the general public see the AGS doing. I wasnt at the conference, I dont know what was discussed. But I see the papers pulling out this pay more to avoid corruption line and I jump to conclusions. Get your representatives to avoid any mention of personal gain in individuals and you will have a much better chance at winning public support. The fellow who came out with the corruption statement didnt put much forethought into how that could be twisted though. Maybe he shouldnt talk at these things anymore. He gave the press far too much ammo.
One thing I have noticed on the threads about this possible corruption effect is people have not read the article properly. People are thinking corruption will rise but what was actually said is corruption could become prevalent by some members. That was then followed by examples in other countries where Police Forces who are on very low wages.
Another example would be - why do you think thefts have increased? Its not because the thieves, who have been there all along, need more money, Its because people who are in desperate need of money to help support their families and pay their bills.
Me and alot of my colleagues are struggling to get by on our pay. We are not immune to the difficulties that other people are suffering whether they be in the Public or Private sectors.0 -
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