Cataclysm raiding changes (Massive)

Dustaz

TheDoc wrote: »

Beforehand we didnt have a lfg tool. We didnt have this pretty much streamlined fast access to heroic conente gear.

LFG has nothing to do with it at all. Fast access to gear does though, thats part of the problem. Initially when we were running MC, we were in full blues. When you won an epic it was OMG EPIC!!!!!! it was huge, people in full epics were utter legends of the game.

We are outgearing content quicker then ever before. And lets not forget we are at a tailgate of an expansion. wotlk heroics were challenging enough at the proepr tier level.

Wotlk heroics were NEVER challenging. Shadow Lab, Shattered Halls pre-nerfs were about the most challenging things ive seen in the game. nix isnt kidding saying people spent 7 hours in there, you had to at first.

As regards to crowd control etc, blizzard has acknowledged it will make a comeback in Cata. I dont like the CC mechanic becuase of the possabiliyty of it being resisted or diminishing returns, and all of a sudden your dead cause of a faulty game mechanic.

Thats part of the challenge of the game. btw, theres no DR on cc on nps apart from a few special exceptions (faction champs)

witless1

You cannot compare TBC 5 mans with WOTLK 5 mans....I would stretch the comparison to Vanilla 5 mans but I have no experience there bar a month or two of not really knowing what to do :P

In TBC 5 mans I remember dropping from shadow form to help spam heal as best I could on some packs, a single healer couldn't keep the entire group up. You couldn't get into a 5 man group without some form of crowd control and convincing people that shackle and MC were valid CC options was tough! A valid pull in TBC 5 mans (and even in ZA) was for me to MC one target and have him ganked, enjoyable but when it missed you were looking at a wipe unless it was a solid group.

If they could find a mix between the relative difficulty of TBC heroics and the current system I would be happy. The max time a 5 man should go on for is 45 minutes, any more and people will QQ on the forums, anything less in my opinion is a chore and does devalue the game. It is depressing to see some classes/specs (arcane mages in particular) hitting 80 and within 2 weeks on gear parity with a lot of mains because of craftables and access to full T9 within a week of dinging. Drilling heroics for gear is mind numbing as well, even the daily random for 2 frost badges "forced me" in a way to make sure I logged on each day to move myself closer to my 4 set on my main, a few months later on my alt shammy and I still only have 2 pieces, moving closer to 3 The flip side is it opens the game to alts allowing you experience more sides of it. I would never have considered levelling or gearing an alt only for the system and I still think it is flawed and devaluing the game despite gaining an obvious benefit myself from it.

nix

Thats just it though, they are getting lazy with content and making it easy to level/gear your alts to keep you occupied.

I have plenty of alts so it kept me busy for about 3-4 alts, but now i can hardly think about doing another heroic as im just that sick of doing them, and there is nothing else to do outside raiding.

They are being very lazy with content in my opinion and **** for expecting everybody to just level an alt, if i wanted to dress things up id play with my nieces dolls, i pay for a game and a game is what i expect to play.

Also last night for example, reset day and our numbers grew shorter again raid wise and we were about 23 players, some of which were socials too and we hammered through 25man, doing what hard modes we could with 23 people. In 3 hours (with alot of afk/dc d!cking around) we cleared all the way to LK, clearing some HM bosses and doing normal mode achieves that we had left, the lady D one was fun, it should be that at all times.

I even had to heal last night, first time since TBC and i was able to heal effectivley on hardmodes with very little change to gear, or much knowledge of healing wotlk..


Sorry but the game is just getting watered down and becoming pointless to play, heck ive even resubbed to AoC

And i fear the changes they are making for cata will not remedy the above, but make it worse..

EDIT: WOTLK heroics were NEVER a challenge, the icc 5mans just showed how little experience tanks had from the current content from picking up packs with more than 3 in them, once they got the hang of it, back onto easy peasy...

bad2dabone

back in vanilla wow and even TBC 5 mans and heroic 5 mans were epic. These days you can burn em out so easily its ridiculous. Wow should have a nice difficulty level, heroics should be somewhat punishing. dont fill dungeons with trash but have some trash that can require proper tactics like they used to.
Fingers crossed this will happen.

Overheal

HoR would be more challenging if it wasnt for the corners, tbf.

bad2dabone wrote: »

back in vanilla wow and even TBC 5 mans and heroic 5 mans were epic. These days you can burn em out so easily its ridiculous. Wow should have a nice difficulty level, heroics should be somewhat punishing. dont fill dungeons with trash but have some trash that can require proper tactics like they used to.
Fingers crossed this will happen.

Make them much harder and get rid of this 1-a-day lockout on the frost badges.

If they were sufficiently hard you wouldn't have to hold people back from doing too many of them. If Heroics in the day really took you anywhere around 2-7 hours to complete (:eek:) as opposed to 25 minutes then I dont think you'd see that many people jumping to do more than 1 a day anyhow.

Unless Im totally wrong and that would just give people more gear more easilly.

Magill

i doubt we'll still be using frost badges in cata... /facepalm

Overheal

Magill wrote: »

i doubt we'll still be using frost badges in cata... /facepalm

well the equivalent.

nix

Lets hope there isnt any

Gummy Panda

nix wrote: »

Lets hope there isnt any

There won't be....










They're called valor/hero points instead :P

I love badges. Great for getting some geared after wow break rather then run through old raids that people are sick off. I thought guilds would like that as it expands the pool of geared players you can recruit from.

djiv!de

gear != skill.

Its been ridiculously easy to get gear this whole expansion and the triumph from heroics is a bad idea in my opinion. you have people in full ilvl 232 T9 and doing 2-3k dps, so you have all these people applying to guilds that are useless, be be due to lack of skill, knowledge of class / rotation general window licker etc but until you actually bring them to a raid you have no way of knowing.

Well except from the complete lack of achievements which they will probably put down to them being an alt or rerolled or some other BS excuse.

Gummy Panda

True, gear doesn't equal skill but the emblems allows skilled players who took a break to get back into the game or reroll.

"window lickers" are usually loot whores too so they'll jump from guild to guild after being carried (and probably found out). So more then likely they'll have good gear.

I know a terrible guy who was carried to ToC25 because his mates (good players) were in the guild and officers didn't want to loss them for the sake of kicking him. Complete loot whore too.

Robby91

you have all these people applying to guilds that are useless, be be due to lack of skill, knowledge of class / rotation general window licker etc

Generally, guild applications can make it fairly clear as to what kind of player someone is (regardless of what their gear may suggest). While some people may be capable of bluffing their way through some parts of an application, you can still pick off a number of these people a mile away based on their responses.

Just for the sake of an example, I recall someone applying to my previous guild (which was 10m strict) shortly after their LK10-Normal kill. He claimed he had never heard of the guild until shortly before his application (even though he frequents the realm forums, and the guild's thread is bumped regularly, so it'd be fairly hard to miss), and was extremely lazy in his responses (sh!t like "cba with this atm, will fill in later")... it was fairly clear to everyone within the guild that viewed the app that he just wanted quick access to the Heroic modes and, as such, got a fairly swift decline :P

Dustaz

Robby91 wrote: »

Generally, guild applications can make it fairly clear as to what kind of player someone is (regardless of what their gear may suggest). While some people may be capable of bluffing their way through some parts of an application, you can still pick off a number of these people a mile away based on their responses.

Thats really not true. You can pick the terrible apps a mile away due to seeing bad gems, no enchants and low rep from the armory. However its quite possible that the guy with full rep and well planned gear with all the achievements is an utterly terrible player. The only way to discover this is trial them. Guild apps are merely to weed out the lazy and just plain bad.

TheDoc

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So true

I have never submitted a bad application ,its one thing I cna do well, write properly when its needed

I have only ever had one guild app rejected from Drama, when I was still on the learning curve, but the guild leader took the time to chat to me ingame, explain the decision and that he would get back in touch with me when a warlock spot opened.

I realise now that I woulda got kicked pretty rapidly.


Guild app gets rid of the ****ters, if you cant make a half decent guild app there isnt much hope.....so basically, if your Swedish, cause i dont know how they run interview or CV's etc over there, but its pretty ****ing dire if their WoW population is anything to go by

Overheal

Raids & Dungeons Split
Raid leaders will be able to split an ongoing 25-man raid into up to three 10-man raids. Those 10-man raids will be able to continue from that point on, with bosses already down.

So far it looks like it won't be possible to merge 10-man raids into 25-man raids, for obvious reasons.

Information gathered from other sites:

• Raid IDs should be much more flexible. You will be able to join any raid as long as it doesn't have any bosses up that you have already killed. (Details on Wowhead)
• There will be more Algalon-style encounters—ultra-hard optional bosses for hardcore players only. (Details on Wowhead)

degrassinoel

bad2dabone wrote: »

back in vanilla wow and even TBC 5 mans and heroic 5 mans were epic. These days you can burn em out so easily its ridiculous. Wow should have a nice difficulty level, heroics should be somewhat punishing. dont fill dungeons with trash but have some trash that can require proper tactics like they used to.
Fingers crossed this will happen.

strat 45! only managed to do it once lol, oh and the tier 0.5 gear just before TBC(iirc) was awesome

Nehaxak

degrassinoel wrote: »

strat 45! only managed to do it once lol, oh and the tier 0.5 gear just before TBC(iirc) was awesome

It also killed off certain classes at the time as it was incredibly difficult to get into a pug as a DPS (Enhance or Ele) Shaman due to Shamans having nothing in the way of CC.

On the other side, DPS classes with pro CC abilities were always sought after.

So whatever changes they might make to dungeons/raids - I would hope they at least make an effort not to exclude specific classes or make certain classes more sought after than others for their CC abilities rather than their DPS.

degrassinoel

yep, sure i was a hunter back then, rarely ever got a pug for the usual reasons.. ie: being a hunter, but the guild i was in were really good to me in that respect.

I havent seen much CC being used outside of pvp in wrath at all, well the valkyrs on LK but thats about it. TBC had a fair bit, even in TK, some of the trash was almost impossible to kill without some CC.