How bad is emigration in Ireland?

darkman2

Is emigration out of Ireland as high as people are suggesting? I wonder are foreign news agencies in particular overblowing the flow of people out of Ireland because I don't know anybody who is thinking of emigrating or has emigrated......yet. But judging by some reports from abroad there is big emigration.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8616434.stm



A bit sensationalist or an under estimate of the problem?


Why we have not smashed up the Government yet for putting us into this situation I don't know.

Bigdeadlydave

You must know a very small amount of people then.

AckwelFoley

The global recession is the governments fault.

Correct.


As is the volcano eruption in Iceland

RolandIRL

my bro's leaving for oz tomorrow, and i've another brother in swizterland (but that wasn't emigrating to get a job, he left a job for a better one)
i know a good few people gone to oz actually, loads of 20-something year olds from my area are gone for a year working, cos there's nothing here for them.
no point being on the dole here, bored out of your mind. :rolleyes:

karlog

I know i'm leaving.

brianthebard

snyper wrote: »

The global recession is the governments fault.

Correct.


As is the volcano eruption in Iceland

We get it, you voted FF in the last election and you're not sorry about it. Good for you.

Stinicker

We tukk their jurbs

AckwelFoley

brianthebard wrote: »

We get it, you voted FF in the last election and you're not sorry about it. Good for you.

Not quite correct.

But i dont like the same ol bullsh1t mantra Newstalk and redtop press publish as fact. Use of my brain and logical thinking is my preferred option.

Yes this government fcuked up many things, made incorrect decisions and didnt make decisions when required, but to spout the same shyte you hear in junk papers about fat bankers, greedy builders and incompitent politicians is bollox. Im not ignoring the facts, but im not ignorant to global econimics either

brianthebard

snyper wrote: »

Not quite correct.

But i don't like the same old bullsh1t mantra Newstalk and redtop press publish as fact. Use of my brain and logical thinking is my preferred option.

Yes this government fcuked up many things, made incorrect decisions and didn't make decisions when required, but to spout the same shyte you hear in junk papers about fat bankers, greedy builders and incompetent politicians is bollocks. I'm not ignoring the facts, but I'm not ignorant to global economics either

global economics didn't create an Irish bubble, and no matter how much you or FF argue about it that fact remains.

SugarHigh

snyper wrote: »

Not quite correct.

But i dont like the same ol bullsh1t mantra Newstalk and redtop press publish as fact. Use of my brain and logical thinking is my preferred option.

Yes this government fcuked up many things, made incorrect decisions and didnt make decisions when required, but to spout the same shyte you hear in junk papers about fat bankers, greedy builders and incompitent politicians is bollox. Im not ignoring the facts, but im not ignorant to global econimics either

Why do you think Ireland was hit much worse than all the other countries affected by the global recession?

Do you not think we should have been prepared for our property bubble to burst when we were constantly being warned about it?

IvySlayer

Fianna Fail are not to blame for people taking out massive loans/mortgages. They are ****e at running the country and need to be replaced, but nothing could have prevented this recession.

df1985

its worth remember ing that a lot of people going to oz would have gone anyway, even if the celtic tiger was still roaring away. the year in oz/ backpacking round asia has become a rite of passage for many young irish people. im going next yr, the economy doesnt factor in my decision.

AckwelFoley

brianthebard wrote: »

global economics didn't create an Irish bubble, .

It was a factor.

We are a pimple on the surface of the globe. We dont have a natural resource like oil, therefore our economic sucess will be linked with global performance

AckwelFoley

SugarHigh wrote: »

Why do you think Ireland was hit much worse than all the other countries affected by the global recession?

Do you not think we should have been prepared for our property bubble to burst when we were constantly being warned about it?

Yes, that part is the fault of the government. The country was too reliant on the property market.

AARRRRGH

SugarHigh wrote: »

Why do you think Ireland was hit much worse than all the other countries affected by the global recession?

Do you not think we should have been prepared for our property bubble to burst when we were constantly being warned about it?

I was prepared. Not because all the know-alls (one idiots opinion is as bad as any others, NOBODY really knows what the economic landscape will be in 5 years) kept saying it was going to burst. But because I was prepared IN CASE it happened. I had myself in a position where it could keep going, or burst, and I would gain from it.

Anyway back on topic. OP you are right. Everyone is talking about emigration, but I have yet to see it any different than it was all through the last 5 or 6 years.
If those who are unemployed emigrated it would be great for all. They would have better lives and the state wouldnt have to support them. But they would rather cry on boards than help themselves, so no, they are not emigrating.
The same amount of people are going to Oz every year as there have been for many years now. They wont be staying, though they'll try to stay there, as they have always done even in the boom times.

brianthebard

snyper wrote: »

It was a factor.

We are a pimple on the surface of the globe. We dont have a natural resource like oil, therefore our economic sucess will be linked with global performance

Amazingly reductive reasoning. Your example blows btw, you think oil/natural resources aren't linked to global performance? The property bubble is accountable for the current recession and the FF led governments of the last decade is accountable for the bubble.

Wagon

Left a few months ago. Dont plan to return to live for a while.

AARRRRGH

snyper wrote: »

It was a factor.

We are a pimple on the surface of the globe. We dont have a natural resource like oil, therefore our economic sucess will be linked with global performance

And its a bigger factor than many people seems to realize. Amazing how blinkered people are.
Some people are actually going around with their head up their arse thinking the global economy has nothing to do with how bad or how well ours is doing.

Scarinae

I'm doing a masters in London this year, so I suppose in a sense you could say I've emigrated. I thought I would move back to Ireland afterwards, but everybody is telling me that would be an awful idea and that I'd have trouble even getting a job in a pub. I know several other people from home who are over here in London, as well as other parts of England, and I know people who have moved to Australia, the US and Canada among other places. I also cannot believe how many people I know in Ireland who are on the dole

Radiotower

Between people I went to college with and lads from home I went to school with I know lads in England, Finland, Luxembourg, Australia, USA, UAE and Japan. About 18 lads in total (of the top of my head - prob more!), then include their partners and it adds up. I could be joining them soon.

I dont know where you're living if you dont know anyone that has emmigrated or is thinking about it

AckwelFoley

brianthebard wrote: »

Amazingly reductive reasoning. Your example blows btw, you think oil/natural resources aren't linked to global performance? The property bubble is accountable for the current recession and the FF led governments of the last decade is accountable for the bubble.

yea. The sultan over in the middle east is broke now. Cant sell a barrell of oil for a penny.

:rolleyes:

Stinicker

I hope some of the begrudgers who were quick to complain and even exploit about Polish and Eastern Europeans coming over here during to boom to make a few bob are the first to experience such discrimination when they are now forced to go abroad.

When I worked with a few Polish lads in a hotel alot of the Irish completely shunned them only having anything to do with them on a professional level. Every morning I'd have the fry with them in the canteen and we all got on grand.

This is what Emigration and integration is about not coming off the first plane and onto the dole straight away and then living in some ghettoised community where they keep to themselves.

I am heading to Australia in July for a holiday with a view to returning in 2011 for a year or two, I would be perfectly happy to have no contact with any Irish over there and I cringe when I see the Irish Soccer or GAA wearing jersey types who head for the 1st Irish bar and get pissed. I heard one fellow say of Australia, the only problem is its full of Australians! *bangs head off wall*

AckwelFoley

AARRRRGH wrote: »

And its a bigger factor than many people seems to realize. Amazing how blinkered people are.
Some people are actually going around with their head up their arse thinking the global economy has nothing to do with how bad or how well ours is doing.

Dont confuse blinkered with ignorance

AARRRRGH

Radiotower wrote: »

Between people I went to college with and lads from home I went to school with I know lads in England, Finland, Luxembourg, Australia, USA, UAE and Japan. About 18 lads in total (of the top of my head - prob more!), then include their partners and it adds up. I could be joining them soon.

I dont know where you're living if you dont know anyone that has emmigrated or is thinking about it

Thinking is not doing.
Sure we've all been thinking about it forever. I fancy the Carribbean mysef.

Almost everyone has emigrated for at least one or more years after school/college. Always been that way. My whole year in school left and most stayed away for at least 3 years. The only time we would meet up was in the pub at Christmas when everyone was home. 95% of us are now back in Ireland. Its just what you do when you are young.

Alessandra

I left about 8 months ago and don't plan on returning unless a better opportunity presents itself at home(Highly unlikely).

People left at home are either unemployed or working for less money that they were 2-3 years ago.

I know many people who have left for the UK, America and Austrailia and some in Europe. Graduates in many areas as well as tradesmen and those without qualifications have no option but to leave.

REXER

IvySlayer wrote: »

Fianna Fail are not to blame for people taking out massive loans/mortgages. They are ****e at running the country and need to be replaced, but nothing could have prevented this recession.

So do you belive that it was entirely beyond FF to limit the credit supply and so doing keep a lid on the runaway house prices?

That and enforcing sound credit supply rules is all it would have taken to keep everyone sane, but that way there wouldn't have been the massive amounts of stamp duty for the corrupt [EMAIL="w@nkers"]w@nkers[/EMAIL] to squander.

Radiotower

AARRRRGH wrote: »

I was prepared. Not because all the know-alls (one idiots opinion is as bad as any others, NOBODY really knows what the economic landscape will be in 5 years) kept saying it was going to burst. But because I was prepared IN CASE it happened. I had myself in a position where it could keep going, or burst, and I would gain from it.

Anyway back on topic. OP you are right. Everyone is talking about emigration, but I have yet to see it any different than it was all through the last 5 or 6 years.
If those who are unemployed emigrated it would be great for all. They would have better lives and the state wouldnt have to support them. But they would rather cry on boards than help themselves, so no, they are not emigrating.
The same amount of people are going to Oz every year as there have been for many years now. They wont be staying, though they'll try to stay there, as they have always done even in the boom times.

So the population of Ireland keeps reducing, eventually there will be no-one to buy goods and services. I know for myself emmigrating is the last option for me, I would much rather work in Ireland and spend my money here but looking like its not an option.

Losing the immgrant workers is hurting also as they are leaving and going back home so we're not getting any of their disposable income.

Radiotower

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Thinking is not doing.
Sure we've all been thinking about it forever. I fancy the Carribbean mysef.

Almost everyone has emigrated for at least one or more years after school/college. Always been that way. My whole year in school left and most stayed away for at least 3 years. The only time we would meet up was in the pub at Christmas when everyone was home. 95% of us are now back in Ireland. Its just what you do when you are young.

Well its 16years since I done the leaving cert and all the lads i know who are overseas are not doing it as part of a right of passage - that is well out of their system. They are doing it now because they have families and responsibilities - they are not living in Bondi and drinking every night in The Cock and Bull

Michaelrsh

someone said 50,000 people emigrated in 2009.

Noreen1

There are very high levels of emigration in my area. Of those 20- something who remain, many have decided to return to education. Since forecasts predict that further education may not be an option next year, I expect the emigration figures will continue to rise next year.:(

Noreen

myflipflops

I left 7 months ago. It was to get a better paying job rather than any job though.

Succesful, profitable, growing companies using the general economic climate in Ireland to implement pay freezes annoy me. If your directors bonuses are going through the roof then my salary should be allowed to grow naturally.

Donkey Oaty

Now that it's possible to listen to 2FM's The Gerry Ryan Show online, is there really any reason to stay?

Stinicker

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Now that it's possible to listen to 2FM's The Gerry Ryan Show online, is there really any reason to stay?

If you listen to Gerry Ryan you deserve to be jettisoned to bloody Mars.

AARRRRGH

Radiotower wrote: »

So the population of Ireland keeps reducing, eventually there will be no-one to buy goods and services. I know for myself emmigrating is the last option for me, I would much rather work in Ireland and spend my money here but looking like its not an option.

Losing the immgrant workers is hurting also as they are leaving and going back home so we're not getting any of their disposable income.

Come on now. Get a grip there. Ireland is not and will not be empty.

Shiny

I don't know anyone who has emigrated, I know plenty to want to but
there aren't exactly jobs waiting for them abroad.

The fact that the recession is global is limiting the emigration I suspect.

syklops

Shiny wrote: »

I don't know anyone who has emigrated, I know plenty to want to but
there aren't exactly jobs waiting for them abroad.

The fact that the recession is global is limiting the emigration I suspect.

Not true. The global recession does not affect every single country, and there are plenty of jobs out there if you go looking. My company is looking for about 40 extra people at the moment, for example.

amacachi

I know more people who have come home in the last ~5 years than have left.

deadhead13

The ESRI are predicting 100,000 to emigrate this year and the same again next year.

AARRRRGH

syklops wrote: »

Not true. The global recession does not affect every single country, and there are plenty of jobs out there if you go looking. My company is looking for about 40 extra people at the moment, for example.

NO, NO, NO. Anything that is not doom and gloom is not allowed on boards or even in Ireland. Didnt you know that.

My company is also having difficulty hiring, as are a few others I know of, but nobody believes me, so I dont bother anymore.

AARRRRGH

deadhead13 wrote: »

The ESRI are predicting 100,000 to emigrate this year and the same again next year.

And may they all be the people currently on the dole, or at least those not earning enough to pay tax.
€40,000,000 saving there.

kraggy

brianthebard wrote: »

Amazingly reductive reasoning. Your example blows btw, you think oil/natural resources aren't linked to global performance? The property bubble is accountable for the current recession and the FF led governments of the last decade is accountable for the bubble.

Incorrect in my opinion.

We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.

AARRRRGH

kraggy wrote: »

Incorrect in my opinion.

We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.

Or without the global problems, the Irish bubble might have continued to grow, making the pop even worse again, when it did eventually happen.

brianthebard

kraggy wrote: »

Incorrect in my opinion.

We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.

Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but your opinion isn't going to become reality just because you say so.

Lol Argh, are you trying to say its a good thing the recession happened now?

danbohan

snyper wrote: »

Not quite correct.

But i dont like the same ol bullsh1t mantra Newstalk and redtop press publish as fact. Use of my brain and logical thinking is my preferred option.

Yes this government fcuked up many things, made incorrect decisions and didnt make decisions when required, but to spout the same shyte you hear in junk papers about fat bankers, greedy builders and incompitent politicians is bollox. Im not ignoring the facts, but im not ignorant to global econimics either

you see brianthebard , hes not a fianna fail voter , which probably means hes a member of the other dysfunctional and quite mad species on this island , a public sector employee

Ali Babba

It has to be said though the FF government encouraged people to borrow and were happy to cream off the taxes and in effect have to take a lot of responsibility for the mess and the fact they do nothing to encourage growth in business in any shape or form only set the revenue hounds on any business that's left. This country is a shambles largely due to due to bad management by successive FF governments, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional to say the least.

kraggy

brianthebard wrote: »

Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but your opinion isn't going to become reality just because you say so.

Lol Argh, are you trying to say its a good thing the recession happened now?

You have a bit of an attitude. I was just expressing my opinion.

France, Germany, Uk and pretty much all the other G7 countries went into recession at some stage in the last 2 years. They didn't have property booms like us.

AARRRRGH

brianthebard wrote: »

Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but your opinion isn't going to become reality just because you say so.

Lol Argh, are you trying to say its a good thing the recession happened now?

He is right though. Is it that hard a concept for you. Read some books or something.

And where did I say a recession was a good thing? Oh right, I didnt.

You obviously cannot read. Maybe its time for you to resign as a moderator.

brianthebard

AARRRRGH wrote: »

He is right though. Is it that hard a concept for you. Read some books or something.

And where did I say a recession was a good thing? Oh right, I didnt.

You obviously cannot read. Maybe its time for you to resign as a moderator.

Good argument man, I expect I'll see you in the postgrad reading room tomorrow huh? Where's you evidence that he's right, other than that you agree with him? There are plenty of companies that didn't have a property bubble and are not in a recession. I don't need any of those quaint 'books' to know that.

deadhead13

kraggy wrote: »

Incorrect in my opinion.

We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.

The biggest problems we have had is the collapse of the construction sector and the subsequent fall in income tax revenue, stamp duty, related economic activity and the increase unemployed benefit payments related to that collapse. The need to recapitalization the banks and of course NAMA are all directly related to the property bubble.

kraggy

deadhead13 wrote: »

The biggest problems we have had is the collapse of the construction sector and the subsequent fall in income tax revenue, stamp duty, related economic activity and the increase unemployed benefit payments related to that collapse. The need to recapitalization the banks and of course NAMA are all directly related to the property bubble.

Not solely though.

Because of the credit crisis, whose origins lie in the US, people couldn't get access to money for a wide variety of uses, not just houses.

This caused recession in other countries as well.

I abhor Fianna Fail as much as the next man, but to say that we wouldn't have entered recession without having had a property bubble is simply wrong.

If you disagree with me, please explain why France and Germany went into recession.

danbohan

AARRRRGH wrote: »

I was prepared. Not because all the know-alls (one idiots opinion is as bad as any others, NOBODY really knows what the economic landscape will be in 5 years) kept saying it was going to burst. But because I was prepared IN CASE it happened. I had myself in a position where it could keep going, or burst, and I would gain from it.

Anyway back on topic. OP you are right. Everyone is talking about emigration, but I have yet to see it any different than it was all through the last 5 or 6 years.
If those who are unemployed emigrated it would be great for all. They would have better lives and the state wouldnt have to support them. But they would rather cry on boards than help themselves, so no, they are not emigrating.
The same amount of people are going to Oz every year as there have been for many years now. They wont be staying, though they'll try to stay there, as they have always done even in the boom times.

where you will see the highest level of emigration will be from the areas that always had the highest levels ie west , donegal cork , kerry , etc . Dont expect to see any statistics ,the government will deny as they did in 50s and 80s
dont expect the unemployed masses to emigrate , the ones most likely too ,are the ambitious who have enough of gombeen land , anybody under 30 single with no ties here who is unemployed for 6 months or more and is still here with no future lacks ambition .