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How bad is emigration in Ireland?

24

Comments

  • #32
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Now that it's possible to listen to 2FM's The Gerry Ryan Show online, is there really any reason to stay?


  • #33
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,098 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Now that it's possible to listen to 2FM's The Gerry Ryan Show online, is there really any reason to stay?

    If you listen to Gerry Ryan you deserve to be jettisoned to bloody Mars.


  • #34
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    Radiotower wrote: »
    So the population of Ireland keeps reducing, eventually there will be no-one to buy goods and services. I know for myself emmigrating is the last option for me, I would much rather work in Ireland and spend my money here but looking like its not an option.

    Losing the immgrant workers is hurting also as they are leaving and going back home so we're not getting any of their disposable income.

    Come on now. Get a grip there. Ireland is not and will not be empty.


  • #35
    Shiny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭Shiny


    I don't know anyone who has emigrated, I know plenty to want to but
    there aren't exactly jobs waiting for them abroad.

    The fact that the recession is global is limiting the emigration I suspect.


  • #36
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Shiny wrote: »
    I don't know anyone who has emigrated, I know plenty to want to but
    there aren't exactly jobs waiting for them abroad.

    The fact that the recession is global is limiting the emigration I suspect.

    Not true. The global recession does not affect every single country, and there are plenty of jobs out there if you go looking. My company is looking for about 40 extra people at the moment, for example.


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  • #37
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    I know more people who have come home in the last ~5 years than have left.


  • #38
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    The ESRI are predicting 100,000 to emigrate this year and the same again next year.


  • #39
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    syklops wrote: »
    Not true. The global recession does not affect every single country, and there are plenty of jobs out there if you go looking. My company is looking for about 40 extra people at the moment, for example.

    NO, NO, NO. Anything that is not doom and gloom is not allowed on boards or even in Ireland. Didnt you know that.

    My company is also having difficulty hiring, as are a few others I know of, but nobody believes me, so I dont bother anymore.


  • #40
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    The ESRI are predicting 100,000 to emigrate this year and the same again next year.

    And may they all be the people currently on the dole, or at least those not earning enough to pay tax.
    €40,000,000 saving there.


  • #41
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Amazingly reductive reasoning. Your example blows btw, you think oil/natural resources aren't linked to global performance? The property bubble is accountable for the current recession and the FF led governments of the last decade is accountable for the bubble.

    Incorrect in my opinion.

    We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.


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  • #42
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    kraggy wrote: »
    Incorrect in my opinion.

    We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.


    Or without the global problems, the Irish bubble might have continued to grow, making the pop even worse again, when it did eventually happen.


  • #43
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    kraggy wrote: »
    Incorrect in my opinion.

    We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.

    Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but your opinion isn't going to become reality just because you say so.

    Lol Argh, are you trying to say its a good thing the recession happened now?


  • #44
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    snyper wrote: »
    Not quite correct.

    But i dont like the same ol bullsh1t mantra Newstalk and redtop press publish as fact. Use of my brain and logical thinking is my preferred option.

    Yes this government fcuked up many things, made incorrect decisions and didnt make decisions when required, but to spout the same shyte you hear in junk papers about fat bankers, greedy builders and incompitent politicians is bollox. Im not ignoring the facts, but im not ignorant to global econimics either

    you see brianthebard , hes not a fianna fail voter , which probably means hes a member of the other dysfunctional and quite mad species on this island , a public sector employee


  • #45
    Ali Babba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Ali Babba


    It has to be said though the FF government encouraged people to borrow and were happy to cream off the taxes and in effect have to take a lot of responsibility for the mess and the fact they do nothing to encourage growth in business in any shape or form only set the revenue hounds on any business that's left. This country is a shambles largely due to due to bad management by successive FF governments, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional to say the least.


  • #46
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but your opinion isn't going to become reality just because you say so.

    Lol Argh, are you trying to say its a good thing the recession happened now?

    You have a bit of an attitude. I was just expressing my opinion.

    France, Germany, Uk and pretty much all the other G7 countries went into recession at some stage in the last 2 years. They didn't have property booms like us.


  • #47
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but your opinion isn't going to become reality just because you say so.

    Lol Argh, are you trying to say its a good thing the recession happened now?

    He is right though. Is it that hard a concept for you. Read some books or something.

    And where did I say a recession was a good thing? Oh right, I didnt.

    You obviously cannot read. Maybe its time for you to resign as a moderator.


  • #48
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    AARRRRGH wrote: »
    He is right though. Is it that hard a concept for you. Read some books or something.

    And where did I say a recession was a good thing? Oh right, I didnt.

    You obviously cannot read. Maybe its time for you to resign as a moderator.

    Good argument man, I expect I'll see you in the postgrad reading room tomorrow huh? Where's you evidence that he's right, other than that you agree with him? There are plenty of companies that didn't have a property bubble and are not in a recession. I don't need any of those quaint 'books' to know that.


  • #49
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    kraggy wrote: »
    Incorrect in my opinion.

    We'd still be in recession even if there had been no property bubble. The bubble just made it worse.

    The biggest problems we have had is the collapse of the construction sector and the subsequent fall in income tax revenue, stamp duty, related economic activity and the increase unemployed benefit payments related to that collapse. The need to recapitalization the banks and of course NAMA are all directly related to the property bubble.


  • #50
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    The biggest problems we have had is the collapse of the construction sector and the subsequent fall in income tax revenue, stamp duty, related economic activity and the increase unemployed benefit payments related to that collapse. The need to recapitalization the banks and of course NAMA are all directly related to the property bubble.

    Not solely though.

    Because of the credit crisis, whose origins lie in the US, people couldn't get access to money for a wide variety of uses, not just houses.

    This caused recession in other countries as well.

    I abhor Fianna Fail as much as the next man, but to say that we wouldn't have entered recession without having had a property bubble is simply wrong.

    If you disagree with me, please explain why France and Germany went into recession.


  • #51
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    AARRRRGH wrote: »
    I was prepared. Not because all the know-alls (one idiots opinion is as bad as any others, NOBODY really knows what the economic landscape will be in 5 years) kept saying it was going to burst. But because I was prepared IN CASE it happened. I had myself in a position where it could keep going, or burst, and I would gain from it.

    Anyway back on topic. OP you are right. Everyone is talking about emigration, but I have yet to see it any different than it was all through the last 5 or 6 years.
    If those who are unemployed emigrated it would be great for all. They would have better lives and the state wouldnt have to support them. But they would rather cry on boards than help themselves, so no, they are not emigrating.
    The same amount of people are going to Oz every year as there have been for many years now. They wont be staying, though they'll try to stay there, as they have always done even in the boom times.


    where you will see the highest level of emigration will be from the areas that always had the highest levels ie west , donegal cork , kerry , etc . Dont expect to see any statistics ,the government will deny as they did in 50s and 80s
    dont expect the unemployed masses to emigrate , the ones most likely too ,are the ambitious who have enough of gombeen land , anybody under 30 single with no ties here who is unemployed for 6 months or more and is still here with no future lacks ambition .


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  • #52
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    kraggy wrote: »
    Not solely though.

    Because of the credit crisis, whose origins lie in the US, people couldn't get access to money for a wide variety of uses, not just houses.

    This caused recession in other countries as well.

    I abhor Fianna Fail as much as the next man, but to say that we wouldn't have entered recession without having had a property bubble is simply wrong.

    If you disagree with me, please explain why France and Germany went into recession.

    I wasn't suggesting it was the sole factor, but it was the most significant one. Yes, France and Germany are in recession but they haven't experience anything like the drop of 7.1% in GDP and 11.3% in GNP, since 2008, that we have (which is a record btw). Construction output fell by 32.3% over the same period,


  • #53
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    danbohan wrote: »
    where you will see the highest level of emigration will be from the areas that always had the highest levels ie west , donegal cork , kerry , etc . Dont expect to see any statistics ,the government will deny as they did in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s 80s and 90s.
    dont expect the unemployed masses to emigrate , the ones most likely too ,are the ambitious who have enough of gombeen land , anybody under 30 single with no ties here who is unemployed for 6 months or more and is still here with no future lacks ambition .

    fyp

    As usual, it will be the unemployed masses, along with anyone else who gives up believing that the government will ever find them any jobs. This country should get a place in the Guinness Book of Records for being the place where history has repeated itself the most times.

    As in the past, the husband will take off, find himself a job, find a place to rent, then his family will follow, and the old homestead will be another derelict building a few years later.

    The politicians will pat themselves on the back when the unemployment figures drop, and tell us how wonderful they are, but they won't say much about mass-emigration fixing the figures for them.


  • #54
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    anybody under 30 single with no ties here who is unemployed for 6 months or more and is still here with no future lacks ambition .

    I am not sure about the level of modern emigration. Firstly we cant separate Irish people leaving Ireland with Polish ( etc.) going home, in the statistics.

    Secondly, the rest of the world is not exactly booming ( Oz being an exception because of Chinese demand for Australian resources).

    Thirdly people are trapped, often quite young, with mortgages.

    Fourthly, and anecdotely, I havent noticed a vast increase in Irish accents in London etc.

    And lastly, except for Oz, there is not really the social structure here for people to easily come over ( i.e. the older brother is not here already). And Irelands twenty somethings haven't, for the most part, even left their parent's house.

    And the dole is much bigger in Ireland.

    So nothing much is happening yet, for Irish ethnics, except an increase in numbers going to Oz. As I said, we cant divorce the figures leaving between Irish and immigrants to Ireland returning home.


  • #55
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    danbohan wrote: »
    where you will see the highest level of emigration will be from the areas that always had the highest levels ie west , donegal cork , kerry , etc . Dont expect to see any statistics ,the government will deny as they did in 50s and 80s
    dont expect the unemployed masses to emigrate , the ones most likely too ,are the ambitious who have enough of gombeen land , anybody under 30 single with no ties here who is unemployed for 6 months or more and is still here with no future lacks ambition .

    I think you are right about people from the west emigrating. Sure they were already emigrating from the west to the east for years. There is nothing in the west for them.

    As long as the ones emigrating are the ones with no jobs, or the ones not paying tax, then we are actually better off.


  • #56
    The Aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    Pittens wrote: »
    Irish people leaving Ireland with Polish ( etc.) going home,

    Well the Irish are the Polish of Australia.:pac:
    Grabs body armour, gets in fastest car available and goes into hiding, spends life on the run

    Was it worth it,No


  • #57
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Pittens wrote: »
    I am not sure about the level of modern emigration. Firstly we cant separate Irish people leaving Ireland with Polish ( etc.) going home, in the statistics.

    Ironically enough, I left Ireland with a Pole ;)


  • #58
    El Siglo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    My brother is in China and my sister is in Saudi. A load of school friends are in Oz and a few others are in NZ. So I don't think it's sensationalist. It might have been sensationalist maybe 18 months ago but not now. Government, NAMA, Civil Servants, Pension top ups, Fitzpatrick, Fingleton, it all means the same thing when you're working abroad... dick.


  • #59
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    AARRRRGH wrote: »
    I think you are right about people from the west emigrating. Sure they were already emigrating from the west to the east for years. There is nothing in the west for them.

    As long as the ones emigrating are the ones with no jobs, or the ones not paying tax, then we are actually better off.


    sure of course they were , why would anybody want live in horrible places like donegal if you could have lovely bit of negative equity in clondalkin or adamstown etc !


  • #60
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    darkman2 wrote: »
    A bit sensationalist or an under estimate of the problem?.

    Surely its a bit sensationalist to assume that emigration is always a "problem"


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  • #61
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    I wasn't suggesting it was the sole factor, but it was the most significant one. Yes, France and Germany are in recession but they haven't experience anything like the drop of 7.1% in GDP and 11.3% in GNP, since 2008, that we have (which is a record btw). Construction output fell by 32.3% over the same period,

    When the US sub-prime sh1t hit the fan, I distinctly remember Cowen telling us that Ireland wouldn't be effected, as the banking system in Ireland wasn't into sub-prime jiggery pokery. It's nice to know that even then, he was keeping up to date with the intricacies of the Irish economy - the useless bollox.

    If we assume that Ireland had no sub-prime involvement, I think that it's safe to say that Ireland wouldn't be in nearly as much sh1t as it's found itself, had it not been for overblown property transactions.


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