Dublin Bus Network Review

LXFlyer

Well the 210 will not be a saving if it gets replaced by the 166.

BenShermin

lxflyer wrote: »

Well the 210 will not be a saving if it gets replaced by the 166.

Not entirely true imo, as I see it the 166 is a much more useful route than the 210 and should attract more patronage as a result.

LXFlyer

BenShermin wrote: »

Not entirely true imo, as I see it the 166 is a much more useful route than the 210 and should attract more patronage as a result.

I meant in terms of bus and driver resources.

That appears to be the primary focus right now - implementing the changes that do involve savings in both, rather than new services or alternatives that require the same/more resources.

dfx-

KD345 wrote: »

I took a spin on the new 40 earlier today and it seems to be running fine. Passengers were aware of the change and the drivers were good in assisting those who asked questions.

Fair bit of confusion on the first Emmet Rd stop this morning. Elderly ladies stopping 68s with the absolute picture of confusion on their faces wondering why the 78A was neither showing up on their display nor turning up and there being only 13s and 68s.

I'll be positive and say the early teething problems of the new route not being on a display was the root of their puzzlement.:)

Ben D Bus

dfx- wrote: »

Fair bit of confusion on the first Emmet Rd stop this morning. Elderly ladies stopping 68s with the absolute picture of confusion on their faces wondering why the 78A was neither showing up on their display nor turning up and there being only 13s and 68s.

I'll be positive and say the early teething problems of the new route not being on a display was the root of their puzzlement.:)

I noticed the 40 was missing from my bus stop display this morning but it was on my Android app (which reads from the Dublin Bus site I think). So an issue with RTPI this morning? Possibly yesterday too, I didn't check. It seems OK online now.

KD345

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I noticed the 40 was missing from my bus stop display this morning but it was on my Android app (which reads from the Dublin Bus site I think). So an issue with RTPI this morning? Possibly yesterday too, I didn't check. It seems OK online now.

The information is there, but for some reason the on street displays take about 2 days to show new routes.

Rabbitt

KD345 wrote: »

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I noticed the 40 was missing from my bus stop display this morning but it was on my Android app (which reads from the Dublin Bus site I think). So an issue with RTPI this morning? Possibly yesterday too, I didn't check. It seems OK online now.

The information is there, but for some reason the on street displays take about 2 days to show new routes.

I have a gripe about those RTPI displays at the stops and it's this.
Why do they decide to fill the 4/5 lines with info on the next 4/5 buses arriving, fr example
27 Jobstown 2 mins
27 Jobstown 8 mins
27 Jobstown 11
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 15 mins
If I am waiting on a say 56a I don't wanna know when every other bus is arriving I wanna know when mine is.
I would prefer if it gave info per bus like
27 Jobstown 4 mins
56a The Square 35 mins
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 2 mins

that way all passengers know when their bus is coming amd don't get annoyed when they see several of one route popping up all over the place while your bus is MIA

Rabbitt

lxflyer wrote: »

Well the 210 will not be a saving if it gets replaced by the 166.

I think DB missed a trick not routing the 166 round Jobstown and up the blessington road by Westbrook, it would attract more passengers past more hosing estates. On it's cuurent proposed route it will go quite a long way without a stop on Fortunestown Lane amd Citywest road heading to Liffey Valley.

KD345

Rabbitt wrote: »

I have a gripe about those RTPI displays at the stops and it's this.
Why do they decide to fill the 4/5 lines with info on the next 4/5 buses arriving, fr example
27 Jobstown 2 mins
27 Jobstown 8 mins
27 Jobstown 11
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 15 mins
If I am waiting on a say 56a I don't wanna know when every other bus is arriving I wanna know when mine is.
I would prefer if it gave info per bus like
27 Jobstown 4 mins
56a The Square 35 mins
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 2 mins

that way all passengers know when their bus is coming amd don't get annoyed when they see several of one route popping up all over the place while your bus is MIA

Wouldn't this be a problem where there are more than 4/5 buses serving a particular stop. For example, there are 18 different routes stopping at Gandon House on Amiens Street, 22 different routes stopping at Arran Quay, 21 different routes stopping at Lower Leeson Street etc. It would be confusing to have each route display it's next bus time, especially when multiple routes might suit some passengers. If you're using a route like the 56A you could always check the timetable to see if one is scheduled. You would then know if your bus was due within the next hour or if you had missed it.

bk

Very good point by Rabbitt. The RTPI displays are displaying redundant data.

However KD345 is also correct that you may have more routes then lines. However a half way solution would be to use an algorithm that shows the next arrival time of the next X routes where X is the number of lines on the display.

So given a three line display and the following example:

27 Jobstown 2 mins
27 Jobstown 8 mins
27 Jobstown 11
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 15 mins

It would display:

27 Jobstown 2 mins
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 15 mins

And then when the 27 comes it would display:

27 Jobstown 6 mins
77a Citywest 10 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 13 mins

And eventually after the third 27 passed it would display:

77a Citywest 1 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 3 mins
27 Jobstown 8 mins

The argument against this is that if someone waiting for the 27 in the first example saw that there is another one along a few minutes later, they might decide to pop into a shop and get the later bus.

The Skulls

Rabbitt wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

Well the 210 will not be a saving if it gets replaced by the 166.

I think DB missed a trick not routing the 166 round Jobstown and up the blessington road by Westbrook, it would attract more passengers past more hosing estates. On it's cuurent proposed route it will go quite a long way without a stop on Fortunestown Lane amd Citywest road heading to Liffey Valley.

I must have missed something? 166? Where is it proposed to operate? Out of what depot?

KD345

The Skulls wrote: »

I must have missed something? 166? Where is it proposed to operate? Out of what depot?

Route 166 will run from Tallaght to Liffey Valley

Routing is as follows: Tallaght (The Square), Fortunestown Way, Citywest Road, Kingswood Avenue, Old Naas Road (Brownsbarn), Outer Ring Road, Grange Castle Business Park, Castle Road, Willsbrook Road, St. Loman’s Road, Liffey Valley Shopping Centre.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct---Implemented-Phases/Ballyfermot-/

The Skulls

The Skulls wrote: »

I must have missed something? 166? Where is it proposed to operate? Out of what depot?

Judging by the catchment area I'd assume Conyngham Road.

prettyboy81

A2000 wrote: »

Says on db website that they have secured a new terminus for 40 in finglas village but gives no information as to where it is. Was supposrd to be finglas place which imo is a good location for buses laying over due to its width.

Terminus is at the side of the drake inn pub & before the main junction lights in Finglas, whereby it will go through the lights onto McKee Avenue. Actually I feel better location, as it smack bang in the middle of the village. Plenty of room for 3 buses, saw 2 parked there earlier....

qerty

I was told by my friend's father (who is a driver in connyingham road garage) that the 76/a/b will be changed after christmas and will operate via cherrywood to compensate for the removal of the 210.

kthnxbai

Has anyone else noticed that the real-time info for the 40 in the morning is a bit messed up?

I checked it both this morning and yesterday, and a load of buses are missing between 7.30 and 8.30... for my stop at least... I forgot to check the stops before/after mine...

I was a bit worried yesterday morning, but I went out anyway and the bus was there so it seems that it's just the real-time info that's a bit messed up. My stop is in Finglas South, so I dunno if anyone else has noticed the same thing elsewhere on the route.

Other than that I'm pretty happy with the new route... It's quite handy for me cause it goes nearer to college and I don't have to wait on smelly Parnell Street Having a bus stop right outside a fish shop is not fun.

Another thing I was wondering is why they've given us different buses. The old 40/40a route had the newest type of bus, and now they're the slightly older model. I just found it a bit weird...

angel01

I was waiting to catch the 40D on Parnell Street last night and it was running late, the bus takes just as long so I don't see any speed differences getting home to be honest and having it go through Finglas village seems to be a little pointless as I don't believe there are any bus stops through the village for the 40D?

I am happy enough with the bus getting me into town in the morning quicker so that is at least something!

I did notice on the bus stop at the bottom of O'Connell Street (where the 40D terminates), it has the bus timetable up and it states that the 4 starts at Parnell Square East and the 40D starts at Mellowes Road?

KD345

angel01 wrote: »

having it go through Finglas village seems to be a little pointless as I don't believe there are any bus stops through the village for the 40D?


I did notice on the bus stop at the bottom of O'Connell Street (where the 40D terminates), it has the bus timetable up and it states that the 4 starts at Parnell Square East and the 40D starts at Mellowes Road?

I think there is a stop at Finglas Place (Stop 4548).

The timetable on O'Connell Street is showing the intermediate times. Rather than show the full timetable, most revised routes show a mid way point to schedule from.

kthnxbai wrote: »

why they've given us different buses. The old 40/40a route had the newest type of bus, and now they're the slightly older model. I just found it a bit weird...

Route 40 is now operated by two different depots, Harristown and Conyngham Road, so you will see a different mixture of buses on the route.

A2000

There are still 25-30 min gaps in 40 in both directions today at off peak time.

Tarabuses

bk wrote: »

Very good point by Rabbitt. The RTPI displays are displaying redundant data.

However KD345 is also correct that you may have more routes then lines. However a half way solution would be to use an algorithm that shows the next arrival time of the next X routes where X is the number of lines on the display.

So given a three line display and the following example:

27 Jobstown 2 mins
27 Jobstown 8 mins
27 Jobstown 11
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 15 mins

It would display:

27 Jobstown 2 mins
77a Citywest 12 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 15 mins

And then when the 27 comes it would display:

27 Jobstown 6 mins
77a Citywest 10 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 13 mins

And eventually after the third 27 passed it would display:

77a Citywest 1 mins
123 Kilnamanagh Road 3 mins
27 Jobstown 8 mins

The argument against this is that if someone waiting for the 27 in the first example saw that there is another one along a few minutes later, they might decide to pop into a shop and get the later bus.

I thought the purpose of RTPI was primarily to let passengers know when the next bus was due not help them to plan their shopping. Your suggestion about displays therefore seems excellent.

Ben D Bus

A2000 wrote: »

There are still 25-30 min gaps in 40 in both directions today at off peak time.

Which stop are you checking against? I noticed a glitch on RTPI this morning where there were 40's showing against stop 2715 that were not showing against 2718, 2 stops later, thus suggesting long gaps at the latter.

Dodge

One good point for Inchicore folks (if no one else) is that the 13 and 40 share the same city centre spots, so there should be some choice.

KD345

Tarabuses wrote: »

I thought the purpose of RTPI was primarily to let passengers know when the next bus was due not help them to plan their shopping. Your suggestion about displays therefore seems excellent.

Certainly the point of the RTPI Dublin Bus phone app and website is to find out when your next bus is due, whereas the on street displays show the next 4/6 buses due at that particular stop.

dfx-

A2000 wrote: »

There are still 25-30 min gaps in 40 in both directions today at off peak time.

I was on Dame St there for about 10 minutes at lunchtime and saw four 40s, two each, one VG. Conyngham Road haven't deviated from the poorer AVs that the 78A had..

The displays should be for when the next bus to the stop is approaching in my opinion. If that's four 27s, then so be it. I'd rather see four 27s in the next ten minutes on it than my 56A being 55 minutes away.

KD345

KD345 wrote: »

Route 40 is now operated by two different depots, Harristown and Conyngham Road, so you will see a different mixture of buses on the route.

I also remember hearing at the time, maybe it's untrue, that the EVs and VGs were unofficially barred from the Ballyfermot routes due to vandalism fears. I saw the odd one on the 78A and 79 but not very often.

LXFlyer

Well there are plenty of EVs and VGs out there today on the 40.

dfx-

Karsini wrote: »

I also remember hearing at the time, maybe it's untrue, that the EVs and VGs were unofficially barred from the Ballyfermot routes due to vandalism fears. I saw the odd one on the 78A and 79 but not very often.

Especially when the 68/69/51s were on Aston Quay too, they'd be much more likely to find their way onto the 78A, but still rare. When they were introduced, I think the maintenance at C/Rd were trying to impose strict orders for them not to stray onto it. They didn't care what else was on it, just not the EVs.

Any regular EVs and obviously VGs will definitely be Harristown's, I'd wager..

A2000

Ben D Bus wrote: »

A2000 wrote: »

There are still 25-30 min gaps in 40 in both directions today at off peak time.

Which stop are you checking against? I noticed a glitch on RTPI this morning where there were 40's showing against stop 2715 that were not showing against 2718, 2 stops later, thus suggesting long gaps at the latter.

stop 270 o'connell st southbound. 40 at 17.01 & 17.30. Thats a big gap for peak hour services. 2 buses missing. 17.30 will probably be full leaving this stop.

KD345

Karsini wrote: »

I also remember hearing at the time, maybe it's untrue, that the EVs and VGs were unofficially barred from the Ballyfermot routes due to vandalism fears. I saw the odd one on the 78A and 79 but not very often.

Some garages will assign certain types of buses to routes for different reasons (passengers loadings/vandalism/luggage space/age of bus). You can understand the reluctance to put a new bus on a route where vandalism is a problem. While Conyngham Road don't have any VGs, their EVs have operated both the 78A and 79 in the past. Harristown have always had their newer buses on the 40s so may decide to continue this.

I think a positive thing in this change is that Ballyfermot now has a low floor cross city route.

LXFlyer

Updates from the Network Direct part of the Dublin Bus website on changes yet to be implemented:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/

Summarised from each area's page.

Malahide Road
27b, 42 and 43 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012)
128 (Implementation planned for December 2011)

Ballinteer / Dundrum / Milltown / Ranelagh / Beaumont
44, 44b, 75 and 175 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012).

Merrion Road
45, 45a and 59 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012)

Finglas East / Glasnevin / Drumcondra
All the changes have been implemented, apart from Route 140 which is due to be implemented December 2011.

Tallaght, Walkinstown, Crumlin Road, South Circular Road, Pearse Street and Sandymount
17, 18, 75, 76/a/b, 166, 175 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012)
65, 65b and 140 (Implementation planned for December 2011)

Ballymun/Clondalkin
76/a/b, 210 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012)

Ballyfermot
18, 76/a/b, 79/a, 166 and 210 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012)

Howth Road / Portmarnock
All the changes to routes 29a, 31, 31b, 32, 32a, 32b, 32x are planned to be implemented in Spring 2012.

Swords / Santry / Rathfarnham / Firhouse / Ballycullen / Terenure
15, 15a, 15b, 15e, 15f, 74, 74a, 128 and 140 (Implementation planned for December 2011)
3, 16, 16a, 41, 41b, 41c, 41x and 142 (Implementation planned for Spring 2012)