Prison - whats it like???

Boston

baalthor wrote: »

I think you meant to say that there isn't ?

yea, that's what I meant.

CDfm wrote: »

Does it exist?

Yes.

CDfm

so thats the first downside

so is their an option not to be part of the general population

do you have max and minimum secure units

segregation what

Boston

No. There will be a wing/area separated for sex offenders. In mouth-joy there are separate cell for those who are in contempt of court but you've no guarantee of being placed in those.

Abrasax

I spent 2 years in prison, not in Ireland, on the continent.
The day consisted of;
- being woken for a shower in the morning (3 days a week).
-going out for an hour in the yard, in the morning
-lunch in your cell around 1
-another hour in the yard in the afternoon
-dinner in your cell around 6
-once to the library on Saturday
-1 hour a week sports (gym, football, whatever)
-church on Sunday if you chose to attend

For most prisoners (those who didn't work), each day consisted of about 22 hours a day, either alone in the single cells or doubled up in the 2 man cells (I chose to be alone).
I didn't qualify for education as a foreigner.
In your cell you could have a TV (rented), a radio, books, you could cook if you could afford the food on little home made cookers, to which the screws turned a blind eye.
The cell also had a toilet, a sink, desk, bed etc.
The cell was seven paces long and 3 paces wide. You spent 22 hours a day in this space, so prison existence is very monotonous for the most part (with the odd event to break up the boredom; fights in the yard, trips to court, prison intrigue etc).
That about sums it up for one post.

Odysseus

Faith wrote: »

I've been reading several books recently (by the same author, granted) where male characters are sent to prison for one reason or another. One hurdle they all have to deal with early on is rape. I wonder if that is actually common in [Irish] prisons? Surely that would be the greatest deterrent of all.

It does happen I have had a few clients raped by other inmates whilst inside.

Odysseus

CDfm wrote: »

so thats the first downside

so is their an option not to be part of the general population

do you have max and minimum secure units

segregation what

Protection has to be the worst. 23hrs locked in a cell with 2-3 other inmates. There was one inmate murdered whilst on protection in m/joy a few ago. I only get a small insight during profession visits, but m/joy really is a kip.

hinault

M/Joy is a terrible place.
A friend of mine is a PO there and he has told me about the conditions in there.

Cons, and those on remand, are locked up for 22 hours per day.
Due to overcrowding, you can have up to four people sharing one cell.
You can have stoners/dopers/clean inmates are sharing a cells size 12x12ft.
Slopping out is a fact of life in the male prison.
Inmates are only allowed one shower per week.
There are no incell sinks as far as I am aware.

Inmates are allowed out of theie cells three times per day.
Breakfast is collected and brought back to the cell to eat.
Dinner is also collected and brought back to the cell to eat.
Tea ditto.

Inmates are allowed one hours free association in the evening and are then locked in to their cells from 8.00pm to 7.00am.

if you need to use the toilet, you need to ask permission.
If you need to do anything, you need to ask permission.


Anyone who suggests that doing time in those condition is easy, are liars.

iptba

It wouldn't have to be this bad to be a deterrent for me.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0426/1224269092789.html

OPINION : As a member of the Mountjoy Visiting Committee I am horrified by the prison

FOR THE past three years I have been a member of the Mountjoy Visiting Committee – a committee appointed by the Minister for Justice to monitor and report on conditions in the country’s oldest prison. My term expires on Friday.

Prisoners in overcrowded cells sleeping on floors infested with cockroaches, mice, ants and other assorted vermin. Others sleeping in shower areas, reception areas and other unsuitable areas;

Prisoners forced to perform daily bodily functions in their cells in front of cell mates, and "slopping out" when cell doors are reopened;

Prisoners having to eat all their meals in the same confined cell area where they sleep and perform their bodily functions;

23-hour lockup for those on protection, with just one hour of possible association/recreation.

dfx-

I've also been on a tour of Mountjoy..padded cell and all. Ugh. If that's what people consider a hotel, I won't be travelling with them anywhere soon.

We went to the Four Courts and Supreme Court the following week when you could take advantage of the open-ness..the state of the District Court would be enough of a deterrent for me.

Worztron

Are all non smoking prisoners subjected to passive smoking inside cells or is smoking only allowed in the outside yard?

Are non violent prisoners (such as those that could not pay a fine or dog license, etc. and shouldn't even be in jail) put amongst dangerous and violent prisoners?

mikemac

I believe there used to put toilets in the cells but the British removed as IRA men were passing messages down the pipes, I'm not sure how it worked exactly

There was a book about Mountjoy out in the last few years
Not being smart but I can't remember who wrote it, I thought it was Paul Kimmage but it seems not
In all good book stores as they say

Anyways......
If you were a troublemaker in Mountjoy they would bundle you into a van and take you to Cork
Cork did the same thing, troublemakers were sent up to Dublin.
And being the outsider a battering by the other prisoners was very possible. So a transfer was something some prisoners feared and the officers knew it

The travelers keep to themselves and while they don't have an official section it's worked where possible to keep them together. Everyone called that area the caravan.

There are people in there with mental issues and realy Mountjoy is not the place for them, Dundrum may get them help but nobody was realy pushing over this and so it's not something realy talked about.
Until an incident happens like they start cutting themselves and then they are taken off to hospital and maybe Dundrum

Now and again there would be a dirty protest and prisoners would use to tissues to grab out of the slop bucket and throw down into the yards.
The officers would get three or four volunteers to clean up the yard in exchange for some privledges. They were known as "the bomb squad"

Educational facilities were very lacking. If you want to do the JC or LC it's not about just signing up, you might never get a place

Just what I remembered from that book

Worztron

These places are exempt from the smoking ban since 29-March-2004.

* Prisons
* Police station detention areas
* St. Patrick's Institution
* Nursing homes
* Hospices
* Religious order homes
* The Central Mental Hospital
* Psychiatric hospitals
* Maternity homes
* Hotel, guesthouse and B& B bedrooms
* Third-level educational residential facilities.

Surely it is illegal to force prison wardens and other workers to suffer from passive smoke by smoking prisoners, etc.?

username123

I knew a guy who did 2 years in a prison in Cork. It was quite a serious crime, he was in with other criminals who had committed serious crimes like murder. He said there wasnt an issue with rape, but there was a major issue with bullying. He took some quite serious beatings (Im talking hospitalised) because he wouldnt arrange for his family to smuggle in drugs for other prisoners. After a few beatings they left him alone as it was clear the family were not and would not cooperate. Actually he did try to get them to bring in the drugs but they wouldnt.

Beyond that he said the boredom was the worst part.

Worztron

There are many people being jailed that should instead get community service. The irony is that the cost of keeping them in jail will more than likely be vastly greater than their fine/unpaid license, etc. Also, sending someone to jail that is not a troublemaker and throwing them in with evil low lifes will be far worse than just being jailed. The people that will suffer the most in jail are those that shouldn't even be there. There are many hardened thugs that see it all as a joke or even a holiday.

CDfm

Family law issues and unpaid fines / debts are areas people were imprissoned for.

Whats the story.

Gandalph

The very first time I layed eyes on Andy Dufresne....

Geekness1234

"I would like to think Andy fought the good fight,but prison is no fairytale world".
*gets bum raped*

Worztron

If someone got jailed for a minor offense such as not being able to pay for a TV license. Then they get locked up with evil thugs and get beaten, raped and subsequently contract HIV/AIDS. Could that person sue the state? Surely the persons sentance was imprisonment. Being beaten and raped would not be part of their punishment and therefore the prison guards must prevent that from happening.

Otis Driftwood

Worztron wrote: »

If someone got jailed for a minor offense such as not being able to pay for a TV license. Then they get locked up with evil thugs and get beaten, raped and subsequently contract HIV/AIDS. Could that person sue the state? Surely the persons sentance was imprisonment. Being beaten and raped would not be part of their punishment and therefore the prison guards must prevent that from happening.

Sure you could be beaten and raped (in theory) any day of the week outside of prison.If it happened could you sue the state for not having a guard patrolling the area you were attacked in?

RandolphEsq

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/annualreport2007pdf.pdf/Files/annualreport2007pdf.pdf
This was a report by the late Hon. Mr. Justice Kinlen way back in 2007. It is pretty grim reading, and it is no wonder that other reports were blocked from being published to the public for fear, by the government, of embarrassment.

CDfm

Worztron wrote: »

If someone got jailed for a minor offense such as not being able to pay for a TV license. Then they get locked up with evil thugs and get beaten, raped and subsequently contract HIV/AIDS. Could that person sue the state? Surely the persons sentance was imprisonment. Being beaten and raped would not be part of their punishment and therefore the prison guards must prevent that from happening.

You should be doing the Anti TV licence campaigns ?

How do you think they can force us to pay for the sh!te that is RTE.

I neither watch or listen to it and if it was gone would not miss it.

As I see it -it's a PR service for the public service and political parties.

Did Andy Dufresne not have a TV licence ?

iptba

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Worztron wrote:

If someone got jailed for a minor offense such as not being able to pay for a TV license. Then they get locked up with evil thugs and get beaten, raped and subsequently contract HIV/AIDS. Could that person sue the state? Surely the persons sentance was imprisonment. Being beaten and raped would not be part of their punishment and therefore the prison guards must prevent that from happening.

Sure you could be beaten and raped (in theory) any day of the week outside of prison.If it happened could you sue the state for not having a guard patrolling the area you were attacked in?

If you are outside, you have the option to run away.

I believe the people who run prison has some sort of duty of care to prisoners. I don't have a legal background but I imagine some sort of negligence would have to be proven. But there has been suggestions, I am aware of it more with regard to the US than Ireland, that not enough is done (or at least, has been done in the past) to protect male prisoners from rape. And I think it is reasonable that if you go to prison, you should generally expect you won't be killed/raped/left severely disabled/similar. Would you say the same about death i.e. if somebody was killed, their family would have no right to complain? Left paralysed and unable to work again?

If people think people should get physically punished for doing crimes, such punishment could even be given out in a controlled way.

iptba

The Masculism wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism mentions this about prison rape of men:

Societal failure to address prison rape, including issues such as prevention (e.g., reducing prison crowding that requires sharing of cells), impunity for prison rapists, and even correctional staff punishing prisoners by confining them with known rapists.[12] Prison rape is often used as a subject of humor in films such as Let's Go to Prison.

12. http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report8.html#_1_50

The reference is a Human Rights Watch page which is quite detailed.

Reading that, prisoners having their own cells would seem one way to help prevent it. I know that is how the women's Dochas centre was built (although it's overcrowded now) but am not sure that is how the new prison for men (in North Dublin) was built - certainly not what happens in Mountjoy for men nor has it ever been the case (I get the impression).

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report8.html#_1_50
Here is an example of better practice:

The North Carolina Pilot Program

An encouraging exception to the overall absence of particularized attention to prisoner-on-prisoner sexual abuse can be found in North Carolina. In 1997, the legislature passed a law establishing a pilot program on sexual assault prevention in the prisons.(405) Covering only three units of the state prison system, the program is otherwise a laudable attempt at addressing the problem of inmate-on-inmate sexual abuse. It provides that the orientation given inmates will include information on the reducing the risk of sexual assault and that counseling on the topic will be provided to any prisoner requesting it. It also requires that the correctional authorities collect data on incidents of sexual aggression and develop and implement employee training on the topic.

The program's rules on classification and housing are particularly valuable. They provide that all prisoners must be evaluated and classified as to their risk of being either the victim or perpetrator of sexually assaultive behavior. These classifications are to be taken into account when making housing assignments. In particular, inmates deemed vulnerable to assault are barred from being housed in the same cell or in small dormitories with inmates rated as potential perpetrators.

and bad practice (!!!!):

In the worst cases, prisoners are actually placed in the same cell with inmates who are likely to victimize them--sometimes even with inmates who have a demonstrated proclivity for sexually abusing others. The case of Eddie Dillard, a California prisoner who served time at Corcoran State Prison in 1993, is an especially chilling example of this problem. Dillard, a young first-timer who had kicked a female correctional officer, was transferred to the cell of Wayne Robertson, a prisoner known by all as the "Booty Bandit."(412) The skinny Dillard was no match for Robertson, a huge, muscular man serving a life sentence for murder. Not only was Robertson nearly twice Dillard's weight, but he had earned his nickname through his habit of violently raping other prisoners.

Before the end of the day, the inevitable occurred: Robertson beat Dillard into submission and sodomized him. For the next two days, Dillard was raped repeatedly, until finally his cell door was opened and he ran out, refusing to return. A correctional officer who worked on the unit later told the Los Angeles Times: "Everyone knew about Robertson. He had raped inmates before and he's raped inmates since."(413) Indeed, according to documents submitted at a California legislative hearing on abuses at Corcoran, Robertson had committed more than a dozen rapes inside Corcoran and other prisons.(414) By placing Dillard in a cell with Robertson, the guards were setting him up for punishment.

Davidson2k9

Rape haha, you lot watch too much TV.

CDfm

Davidson2k9 wrote: »

Rape haha, you lot watch too much TV.

Are there any links for the situation in Ireland.

I agree that Ireland is not the same as the USA where under the 3 strikes and your out rule you can end up in prison till the end of your natural life for not having a bell on your bike.

In that kind of situation people might be more prepared to be a bit more ambidextrous.

nxbyveromdwjpg

mikemac wrote: »

There was a book about Mountjoy out in the last few years
Not being smart but I can't remember who wrote it, I thought it was Paul Kimmage but it seems not

Was it The Joy, by Paul Howard? Yes the guy who came up with Ross O'Carroll Kelly, this is obviously completely different and before the Ross O'Carroll Kelly stuff.

Its a great read, recommended - http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Paul-Howard/dp/0862784913

chickendinner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkTTrPHT9gg

CDfm

nm wrote: »

Was it The Joy, by Paul Howard? Yes the guy who came up with Ross O'Carroll Kelly, this is obviously completely different and before the Ross O'Carroll Kelly stuff.

Its a great read, recommended - http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Paul-Howard/dp/0862784913

So prison rape in Ireland.

Does it exist ?

Edit - my mum who is a retired remedial teacher had an ex pupil in St Patricks Institution and he said he was raped there 20 years ago apparently.

I don't imagine you will get many ex-prisoners posting as the illiteracy rate among prisoners is very high.

And I found this link

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Face+of+Ireland%27s+first+jail+rapist%3B+Beast+forced+sex+on+cellmate.-a060676927

I can't imagine many prisoners are going to report a rape.

CyberJuice

regards to the guy having his posters taken

One of the unofficial rules in prison is that you must not allow people to take your stuff,you should fight to keep it,even if you take a couple of beatings and they still take the poster,after a couple of times you will gain respect and they may not take your stuff anymore

it starts off with posters then food,clothes, making family smuggle drugs in and then before you know it your in the newspaper sittin in your cell naked with stuff scribbled all over your face while other prisoners stand over you laughing and posing for the camera

better to die on your feet then live on your knees as they say

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

So prison rape in Ireland.

Does it exist ?

Edit - my mum who is a retired remedial teacher had an ex pupil in St Patricks Institution and he said he was raped there 20 years ago apparently.

I don't imagine you will get many ex-prisoners posting as the illiteracy rate among prisoners is very high.

And I found this link

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Face+of+Ireland%27s+first+jail+rapist%3B+Beast+forced+sex+on+cellmate.-a060676927

I can't imagine many prisoners are going to report a rape.

Thanks CDfm.

I don't know much about the law. Don't know why they have this rule or whether it might convictions for prison offences more difficult (Cawley was the person who committed the prison rape):

Garda Murray agreed with Barry White SC, defending, that Cawley agreed to speak to Gardai when asked, even though as a sentenced prisoner he was entitled to refuse.