Vegetarian problems

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Nothing against the veggies (thick eejits :rolleyes:) but this is just one dilemma that popped into my head today for no particular reason and I couldn't find a more suitable thread

I think I would be safe in assuming that a lot of vegetarians have pets, cats and dogs etc.
But what about the pet food, do they have to be veggies then or can they even be veggies?
You can have the argument that we, as humans, are above it now and can get our protein off tofu and cardboard etc
But petfood comes from the same processes as what us filthy carnivores eat off??

Not trying to stir **** but if there's any veggies out there I'd like to hear an opinion

DazMarz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W5x5kugnbs

we'llallhavetea_old

jaysus, i never thought of that...

hypocrites!!!! :mad:

kraggy

1. Yes, it is possible to raise a cat or dog on a vegetarian diet. Many people do so.

2. A person not eating meat is still reducing the amount of animals killed over their lifetime even if their dog/cat eats meat.

It's difficult at times being vegetarian, but you try to have some effect rather than none at all (but not all vegetarians abstain from eating meat for animal rights issues).

orourkeda

Life just wouldnt be worth living if we couldnt eat dead animals.

we'llallhavetea_old

this has got me thinking... vegans mustn't swallow. :eek:

Gummy Panda

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

this has got me thinking... vegans mustn't swallow. :eek:

You've got a dirty mind

The_Minister

kraggy wrote: »

1. Yes, it is possible to raise a cat or dog on a vegetarian diet. Many people do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSLQu-d6ZQ

orourkeda

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

this has got me thinking... vegans mustn't swallow. :eek:

Especially the animal juice

we'llallhavetea_old

Gummy Panda wrote: »

You've got a dirty mind

i mean, ye know... any animal by products, what you talkin bout?

recylingbin

If God didn't want us eating animals, why did he make them out of meat?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

recylingbin wrote: »

If God didn't want us eating animals, why did he make them out of meat?

exactly

--LOS--

sure cats will hunt and eat birds, rabbits, mice anyways

bronte

Vincenzo CoolS Spat wrote: »

Nothing against the veggies (thick eejits :rolleyes:) but this is just one dilemma that popped into my head today for no particular reason and I couldn't find a more suitable thread

I think I would be safe in assuming that a lot of vegetarians have pets, cats and dogs etc.
But what about the pet food, do they have to be veggies then or can they even be veggies?
You can have the argument that we, as humans, are above it now and can get our protein off tofu and cardboard etc
But petfood comes from the same processes as what us filthy carnivores eat off??

Not trying to stir **** but if there's any veggies out there I'd like to hear an opinion

I have been vegetarian for 17 years.
My pet cat eats whiskas.
Believe it or not , a lot of vegetarians prefer not to push their beliefs on their pets and/or children.

That'd be like inflicting your religion on them or some other such nonsense...which of course nobody does , right?

we'llallhavetea_old

--LOS-- wrote: »

sure cats will hunt and eat birds, rabbits, mice anyways

yeah they will. if they're allowed outside. i think its a bit mean forcing your pet to be a veggie, they naturally want meat, s'not fair.

orourkeda

bronte wrote: »

I have been vegetarian for 17 years.
My pet cat eats whiskas.
Believe it or not , a lot of vegetarians prefer not to push their beliefs on their pets and/or children.

That'd be like inflicting your religion on them or some other such nonsense...which of course nobody does , right?

They'll inflict them on their children though.

bronte

orourkeda wrote: »

They'll inflict them on their children though.

Vegetarians will?

Each to their own, but I'd never make children of mine be vegetarian.

recylingbin

The pets can probably overpower their veggie overlords anyway, so it's not an issue for them.

m@cc@

recylingbin wrote: »

If God didn't want us eating animals, why did he make them out of meat?

Palin for President!

bronte

recylingbin wrote: »

The pets can probably overpower their veggie overlords anyway, so it's not an issue for them.

This is true. :pac:

Evil kitten. :eek:

epgc3fyqirnbsx

bronte wrote: »

Vegetarians will?

Each to their own, but I'd never make children of mine be vegetarian.

Thanks for your post and I wasn't having any digs just a random thought
I'm sure most are like you, you have your beliefs and will stick with them and fair play for that.
Just wondering what some over-zealous types might think
Kinda like religion really, let everyone make up their own mind.
But I would think, and I dont know, that if I had kids and I was a veggie, well the paternal insticnt is so strong, I would like to see them get fed with milk and meat and grow strong. But I'm sure there are plenty of veggies who say that isn't necessary.
But, imo, bring them up as nature intended, once thery're strong they can make up there own mind

yerayeah

Why, oh why would you not eat meat?:eek: Genuinely, any vegetarians here, why?

Once this year, I was getting dinner in the canteen and asked for vol-au-vonts thinking they were chicken and mushroom. They were only mushroom. I still regret not just getting the roast beef.

OutlawPete

bronte wrote: »

Believe it or not , a lot of vegetarians prefer not to push their beliefs on their pets and/or children.

Vegetarians get a tough press.

I'm not a vegan or anything but I would like to be.

I eat in a Vegan restaurant when in town though, have done since I was 16.

Love the place.

There are many happy vegans, living quite happily and healthily without meat.

m@cc@

Vincenzo CoolS Spat wrote: »

But, imo, bring them up as nature intended, once thery're strong they can make up there own mind

How do you know what nature intended?

Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….

•Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
•Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
•Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
•Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
•Fibre. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
•Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
•Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores

epgc3fyqirnbsx

recylingbin wrote: »

The pets can probably overpower their veggie overlords anyway, so it's not an issue for them.

Had to post this

Dogs Diary
8:00 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
9:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
9:40 am - OH BOY! A WALK! MY FAVORITE!
10:30 am - OH BOY! A CAR RIDE! MY FAVORITE!
11:30 am - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
12:00 noon - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
1:00 pm OH BOY! THE YARD! MY FAVORITE!
1:30 pm - ooooooo. bath. bummer.
4:00 pm - OH BOY! THE KIDS! MY FAVORITE!
5:00 PM - OH BOY! DOG FOOD! MY FAVORITE!
5:30 PM - OH BOY! MOM! MY FAVORITE

EXCERPTS FROM A CAT'S DIARY

DAY 752 - My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furniture...Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant.

DAY 761 - Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the stairs. In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors,I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chair...must try this On their bed.

DAY 765 - Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body in attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat I was... Not working according to plan.

DAY 768 - I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good reason I was chosen for the water torture. This time however it included a burning foamy chemical called "shampoo." What sick minds could invent such a liquid. My only consolation is the piece of thumb still LODGED between my teeth.

DAY 771 - There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary throughout the event, however, I could hear the noise and smell the foul odor of the glass tubes they call "beer." More importantly I overheard that my confinement was due to MY power of "allergies." Must learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage.

DAY 774 - I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit. The bird on the other hand has got to be an informant, and he speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my activities. Due to his current placement in the metal room his safety is assured. But I can wait, it is only a matter of time...


If anyone likes dogs over cats can you please let me know so I can ignore your posts in future

recylingbin

OutlawPete wrote: »

Vegetarians get a tough press.

I'm not a vegan or anything but I would like to be.

I eat in a Vegan restaurant when in town though, have done since I was 16.

Love the place.

There are many happy vegans.

You're thinking of vulcan.

And they're not happy. That would be illogical.

bronte

Vincenzo CoolS Spat wrote: »

Thanks for your post and I wasn't having any digs just a random thought
I'm sure most are like you, you have your beliefs and will stick with them and fair play for that.
Just wondering what some over-zealous types might think
Kinda like religion really, let everyone make up their own mind.
But I would think, and I dont know, that if I had kids and I was a veggie, well the paternal insticnt is so strong, I would like to see them get fed with milk and meat and grow strong. But I'm sure there are plenty of veggies who say that isn't necessary.
But, imo, bring them up as nature intended, once thery're strong they can make up there own mind

Well I was brought up eating meat, and when I was 9 I decided it wasn't for me anymore. My parents were naturally concerned, but respected my wishes and I'm grateful for that.
Never did me any disservice.
I'm the member of my family who never really gets sick at all.

yerayeah wrote: »

Why, oh why would you not eat meat?:eek: Genuinely, any vegetarians here, why?

Honestly? I was never really that into it, and when I started feeling guilty at the age of 9, I just gave it up completely.
I will admit that the smell of crispy bacon does funny things to me still, but no!
Willpower!

recylingbin

Vincenzo CoolS Spat wrote: »

diaries

You do know that neither dogs nor cats actually keep diaries.

I can't stand cats fwiw.

bronte

OutlawPete wrote: »

Vegetarians get a tough press.

I'm not a vegan or anything but I would like to be.

I eat in a Vegan restaurant when in town though, have done since I was 16.

Love the place.

There are many happy vegans, living quite happily and healthily without meat.

Aye, I never really even mention it to be honest!
Only if someone comments that I'm not eating meat.
I still have (older) family members say "Are you still not eating properly?" :pac:
You just have to smile and let it go.

Wish I had the discipline to be vegan alright.

OutlawPete

bronte wrote: »

I will admit that the smell of crispy bacon does funny things to me still ..

You'll that a lot of what people crave meat for is from the addiction of cooked meats.

Someone that craves meat will snap a breast of chicken out of your hands and suck the bones dry, finger licking good.

Would that same person the same sized portion of raw chicken and feel the same satisfaction?

Yet, if it was the protein that was satisfying, both ways should satisfy similarly as they contain the same level of Amino Acids.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

m@cc@ wrote: »

How do you know what nature intended?

Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….

•Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
•Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
•Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
•Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
•Fibre. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
•Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
•Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores

Ok, well said.
I was gonna suggest the obvious answer of canines, then thought better cos I'm pretty sure I saw gorillas with them too.
I suppose when you look at our hunter gatherer history there has been meat eating for a hell of a long time. I dunno when it becomes a requirement and in any case it probably isnt.
But, and I'm a drunken rambler here, really thinking about what I'm about to type I am, but you have dogs that have all descended from wolves or something like them. They now range from chihuahuas to gret danes and Irish wolfhounds and are completely domesticated. In a very short space of time. Even if you look at pictures of cows from the 1800s they look completely different (though I suppose thats just looks).
But if we have a few thousand years of eating meat, it must be instinctual at this satge, not saying we aren't above it and can't change, but its probably instinct.

But in response to yourself m@cc@, nature may not really require it

--LOS--

yerayeah wrote: »

Why, oh why would you not eat meat?:eek: Genuinely, any vegetarians here, why?

Once this year, I was getting dinner in the canteen and asked for vol-au-vonts thinking they were chicken and mushroom. They were only mushroom. I still regret not just getting the roast beef.

Well I wouldn't called myself a vegetarian strictly but I would only eat fish or fowl (chicken/turkey) and I wouldn't even buy fowl myself, I would only eat it out of lack of choice somewhere. I don't eat meat of other kinds not for sympathy of the animals but just for health reasons, I don't think there's any need to eat meat for protein.

bronte

OutlawPete wrote: »

You'll that a lot of what people crave meat for is from the addiction of cooked meats.

Someone that craves meat will snap a breast of chicken out of your hands and suck the bones dry, finger licking good.

Would that same person the same sized portion of raw chicken and feel the same satisfaction?

Yet, if it was the protein that was satisfying, both ways should satisfy similarly as they contain the same level of Amino Acids.

I reckon you're on to something there.

It's weird...you'd think after 17 dang years the pull would loosen, but damn it's tempting.

anniehoo

m@cc@ wrote: »

I believe ya

Until tomorrow when im googling everythin you wrote to b'sure to b'sure!Im too tired now

recylingbin

m@cc@ wrote: »

How do you know what nature intended?

Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….

•Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
•Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
•Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
•Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
•Fibre. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
•Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
•Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores

Actually, human beings have the characteristics of both.
This is because human beings eat both meat and veg and have evolved to cope with both.

we'llallhavetea_old

recylingbin wrote: »

Actually, human beings have the characteristics of both.
This is because human beings eat both meat and veg and have evolved to cope with both.

does the fact that we usually cook our food have something to do with it as well?

recylingbin

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

does the fact that we usually cook our food have something to do with it as well?

Indeed it does.

OutlawPete

--LOS-- wrote: »

I don't think there's any need to eat meat for protein.

There isn't

A lot of people believed a lot of bull down through the years with regards to protein.

Amino Acids are plentiful in fruits and vegetables and B12 deficiency is far more common in meat eaters that vegetarians.

My favourite piece of nonsense that was and still is spouted by Dietitians and Nutritionists the world over is the "Complete Protein" bollox.

Only a few years ago a heard a Dietitian in Beaumont still spouting this crap.

The say: "Make sure and eat Rice and Lentils to make a complete protein.."



Maybe they still teach that stuff too, sad.

yerayeah

m@cc@ wrote: »

How do you know what nature intended?

Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….

•Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
•Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
•Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
•Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
•Fibre. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
•Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
•Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores

Eh... Humans are omnivores so they will naturally share several characteristics between the two.

We're designed to eat both meat and plants, we're not designed to just eat plants. We've descended from hunter gatherers after all, not garden gatherers...

m@cc@

recylingbin wrote: »

Actually, human beings have the characteristics of both.
This is because human beings eat both meat and veg and have evolved to cope with both.

It was more in reference to the 'as nature intended' statement. If we lived 'as nature intended', we never have eaten meat.

recylingbin

m@cc@ wrote: »

It was more in reference to the 'as nature intended' statement. If we lived 'as nature intended', we never have eaten meat.

Humans have eaten meat since there were humans.


I, personally, only eat meat to keep the farming industry going.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

recylingbin wrote: »

Humans have eaten meat since there were humans.


I, personally, only eat meat to keep the farming industry going.

Get thee to the culchie forum, can't believe it hasn't been accepted yet. I'm actually gonna go over to forum requests for a rant now

recylingbin

Vincenzo CoolS Spat wrote: »

Get thee to the culchie forum, can't believe it hasn't been accepted yet. I'm actually gonna go over to forum requests for a rant now

Don't you have to have fathered a jackeen to be a true culchie?
I may have rode their birds, but I always bagged up.

m@cc@

recylingbin wrote: »

Humans have eaten meat since there were humans.

Humans were not created by God, primates evolved to cope with conditions.

yerayeah wrote: »

We're designed to eat both meat and plants, we're not designed to just eat plants. We've descended from hunter gatherers after all, not garden gatherers...

As above, we were never 'designed'.

yerayeah

OutlawPete wrote: »

There isn't

A lot of people believed a lot of bull down through the years with regards to protein.

Amino Acids are plentiful in fruits and vegetables and B12 deficiency is far more common in meat eaters that vegetarians.

My favourite piece of nonsense that was and still is spouted by Dietitians and Nutritionists the world over is the "Complete Protein" bollox.

Only a few years ago a heard a Dietitian in Beaumont still spouting this crap.

The say: "Make sure and eat Rice and Lentils to make a complete protein.."



Maybe they still teach that stuff too, sad.

Source? Just curious is all!!


It's vegans that are at risk of b12 deficiency anyway, and your liver stores enough b12 to last 4 years or so, so you'd want some resolve to eat your way into b12 deficiency! The way you have it worded it seems like eating meat is a risk factor for getting b12 deficiency compared to being a vegetarian which is possible I suppose but I doubt that it's really that significant if it is true.

gamgsam

kraggy wrote: »

1. Yes, it is possible to raise a cat or dog on a vegetarian diet. Many people do so.

A dog yes, a cat no. Raising a dog on a vegetarian diet requires heavy and expensive supplement. The supplement needed to keep a cat alive on a vegetarian diet is so complex that you are in effect creating meat synthetically.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

Anone who would force a veggie diet on a cat or dog is a complete nut.

--LOS--

It does seem weird to me to be feeding lamb/beef based food to dogs, if a dog hunted a cow or sheep they would be put down.

m@cc@

--LOS-- wrote: »

It does seem weird to me to be feeding lamb/beef based food to dogs, if a dog hunted a cow or sheep they would be put down.

I'd like to see the dog that could hunt a cow. :eek:

yerayeah

--LOS-- wrote: »

Well I wouldn't called myself a vegetarian strictly but I would only eat fish or fowl (chicken/turkey) and I wouldn't even buy fowl myself, I would only eat it out of lack of choice somewhere. I don't eat meat of other kinds not for sympathy of the animals but just for health reasons, I don't think there's any need to eat meat for protein.

But would you not think that it's the nicest source of protein?

recylingbin

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'd like to see the dog that could hunt a cow. :eek:

collies are used to get cows in at milking time all over the country.
Not 'technically' hunting, but in the ballpark.

landsleaving

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'd like to see the dog that could hunt a cow. :eek:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07/GiantDog_450x556.jpg