Another stupid Government led idea - Electric Cars

starbelgrade

What a sh*t idea. It's bad enough having to charge your phone, but think of the chaos when you have to ask someone if they have a charger for a VW Golf?


Seriously though, the thing that bugs me most about this, is that the government are going to offer €5k grants to purchasers of the car, which will go straight out of the country to Renault who are set to supply the vehicles. Therefor, the taxpayer is subsiding the middle class - ie., those who can afford these almost €40k cars & also subsidising a French motor manufacturer.

There's also no grid set up to charge the things, they only do 100km before they run out of juice & we've no idea if they are even going to be the new type of fueled car that will be predominant in the next few years.

Next we'll be subsiding rich people like bankers and developers.... oh, wait...

m@cc@

starbelgrade wrote: »

What a sh*t idea. It's bad enough having to charge your phone, but think of the chaos when you have to ask someone if they have a charger for a VW Golf?


Seriously though, the thing that bugs me most about this, is that the government are going to offer €5k grants to purchasers of the car, which will go straight out of the country to Renault who are set to supply the vehicles. Therefor, the taxpayer is subsiding the middle class - ie., those who can afford these almost €40k cars & also subsidising a French motor manufacturer.

But will be raised by import tax, VAT and road tax. Electric cars are coming, might as well get on the boat, so to speak.

Sheeps

They are actually a good idea, it's a shame you've got no idea what you're talking about.

tba

Yeah a stupid idea like the smoking ban and charging for plastic bags.

Very few nations are small enough and contained enough to allow a full scale roll out of electric cars. Iceland, the Caribbean nations etc.. are the likely contenders along with the good old republic.

If you were smart you would set up a company to build/install these chargers, cause once its proven to work here it will be a growth industry.

m@cc@

tba wrote: »

Yeah a stupid idea like the smoking ban and charging for plastic bags.

Very few nations are small enough and contained enough to allow a full scale roll out of electric cars. Iceland, the Caribbean nations etc.. are the likely contenders along with the good old republic.

If you were smart you would set up a company to build/install these chargers, cause once its proven to work here it will be a growth industry.

Excellent point. Never thought about it like that.

starbelgrade

Sheeps wrote: »

They are actually a good idea, it's a shame you've got no idea what you're talking about.

You might provide an argument to the contrary. I am open to persuasion, but I see no reason for Ireland to try to be the forerunner on cars that rely on fossil fuels for their energy & are quite simply, sh*t cars.

FunnyStuff

Sheeps wrote: »

They are actually a good idea, it's a shame you've got no idea what you're talking about.

I'd like to see it when you need to pull in off the side of the road to charge your car in the nearest top up facility. Do you think this is like putting petrol in yr car? 5 minutes and yr done? Some of these things will need to be charged for 8 ****in hours!!!

Whats the ****in point if a trip from one side of the country to the other requires an overnight stay!?!?!?

PhysiologyRocks

My car loves petrol.

And I love my car.

starbelgrade

tba wrote: »

If you were smart you would set up a company to build/install these chargers, cause once its proven to work here it will be a growth industry.

The ESB - a semi state heavyweight - are going to be the biggest players in this market. The rest, most likely will be farmed out via tender, to the cheapest european counterparts.

Dartz

Hint: OP is a Stonecutter.

m@cc@

FunnyStuff wrote: »

Whats the ****in point if a trip from one side of the country to the other requires an overnight stay!?!?!?

You think trips from one side of the country to the other are the norm as opposed to the school run? There's a whole branch of research devoted to making batteries last longer and charge quicker. For short distances, electric cars are practical and can be inexpensively charged overnight.

Sharpshooter

They only go a short distance though, compared to the car so what happens when you are on the motorway?

Will there be places to pull into to get you to the next part of your journey and how long would that take?

Or are they only intended for short trips?

Inquisitive much, sorry.

AnonoBoy

Is there a catchy dance number that can explain all this to me?

Electric Car Bugaloo?
Do the Electric Car?
Car Car Electric Car?
I Wanna Take You To A Gay (Electric) Car?

Captain Chaos

FunnyStuff wrote: »

I'd like to see it when you need to pull in off the side of the road to charge your car in the nearest top up facility. Do you think this is like putting petrol in yr car? 5 minutes and yr done? Some of these things will need to be charged for 8 ****in hours!!!

Whats the ****in point if a trip from one side of the country to the other requires an overnight stay!?!?!?

Exactly, the technology for batteries is just not there yet. You want a minimum range of about 350km at worst case with 8 hour charge times. The charge times are not practical at all either.

Hydrogen like what they have rolled out in California is where the real money is for the short term until battery tech and advance more.

Sorry I can't pick you up from the airport tonight, my car is on its 8 hour charge after I drove it to work twice. Very popular cars alright. The ESB are going to love it too.

m@cc@

Sharpshooter wrote: »

They only go a short distance though, compared to the car so what happens when you are on the motorway?

Will there be places to pull into to get you to the next part of your journey and how long would that take?

Or are they only intended for short trips?

Inquisitive much, sorry.

I'd say short trips at this stage, like city cars. But think about it, long distances are not the norm for most users.

orourkeda

When are we introducing electric chairs?

tba

starbelgrade wrote: »

The ESB - a semi state heavyweight - are going to be the biggest players in this market. The rest, most likely will be farmed out via tender, to the cheapest european counterparts.

Ireland is in the EU, why cant we be the cheapest option? I can guarantee that if the roll out continues on pace they will be the most experienced.

donkey balls

Sharpshooter wrote: »

They only go a short distance though, compared to the car so what happens when you are on the motorway?

Will there be places to pull into to get you to the next part of your journey and how long would that take?

Or are they only intended for short trips?

Inquisitive much, sorry.

sure the new motorways galway-dublin etc dont even have lay bys for you to pull in,also you have a cable from the car to the charger say you leave it in overnight and some b*ll*x comes along and unplugs it while charging.:eek:

AnonoBoy

orourkeda wrote: »

When are we introducing electric chairs?

I've already got one. Well I stapled my electric blanket to an old armchair and hooked it up to a spare car battery. Toasty!

drunkmonkey

Donkey balls your a genius, we don't need electric cars we need gravity powered cable cars!!

AnonoBoy

donkey balls wrote: »

sure the new motorways galway-dublin etc dont even have lay bys for you to pull in,also you have a cable from the car to the charger say you leave it in overnight and some b*ll*x comes along and unplugs it while charging.:eek:

It only takes 90 minutes to charge them so you don't need to leave it in overnight.

starbelgrade

tba wrote: »

Ireland is in the EU, why cant we be the cheapest option? I can guarantee that if the roll out continues on pace they will be the most experienced.

For a start, Renault already have plans in place to provide a battery leasing option on Ireland.

The most expensive part of the car is the battery itself, so when you buy a Renault, you'll get a card that you'll be able to swipe at battery changing stations which will be set up along motorways between cities for long haul trips.

You swipe your card, they take out the battery & replace it with a freshly charged one.

The only people who'll be making money out of this will be the government, Renault & Bill Cullen.

Good oul Doctor Bill - he was on The Frontline recently preaching to the unemployed, saying that they were essentially lazy & needed to get off their asses & do something instead of whinging about having no jobs & relying only state hand-outs. State "hand-outs" which most of them paid for through PRSI & taxes whilst they worked their asses off.

And meanwhile, he's been scheming with the government to get taxpayers to subsisdise the purchase of electric cars from Renault.

Coincidentally, he sells... Renaults.

Aridstarling

How about you use two batteries? That way, when one is running low you can swap it out for one that's fully charged. Might only take two minutes and could be done just about anywhere. Why, I guess you could even have three or four or five!

FunnyStuff

m@cc@ wrote: »

You think trips from one side of the country to the other are the norm as opposed to the school run?

School run my hole.... make the little brats walk. Sick of these ponsy blonde bimbos in their "SUV's" driving 30 seconds down the road to drop lil Amy and Troy to school. **** when i was a kid i walked two miles to and two miles back from school. And can you even imagine what it gonna be like to charge yr car on yr electric bill?!?!?! This wont be like pluggin in a toaster.

And for the record i'll be all for electric cars if its actually gonna do some good and save me money and ****in petrol. But its no use saving €100 a week on petrol, if its gonna add an extra €100 a week to my electricity bill.

iUseVi

Aridstarling wrote: »

How about you use two batteries? That way, when one is running low you can swap it out for one that's fully charged. Might only take two minutes and could be done just about anywhere. Why, I guess you could even have three or four or five!

Maybe six?

evolutionqy7

it would be a great idea if there were charge points on the motorway and around the city area...but there isnt...and as far as i know manufacturers havent actually brought electric car only in Ireland yet..

anyway Electric cars are great way to reduce petrol emissions and electricity is much cheaper than petrol im not a fan of them but its good to see that the government is encouraging people to get them...100 km range is more than enough to get from home > work > home in the city...their not really targeted for long journeys...think you should consider that...

though i would never buy one cause i prefer powerful petrol i think its a great idea

i think best way forward is hydrogen/electric hybrid hydrogen gives clean power without making the car slow and having an electric engine gives you a boost or lets you crawl in traffic!

krudler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DfHyGD7_pM

to anyone who thinks electric cars are all tiny sh1tboxes that cant chug past 50 kmh, look at this, 1.00 onwards

m@cc@

FunnyStuff wrote: »

School run my hole.... make the little brats walk. Sick of these ponsy blonde bimbos in their "SUV's" driving 30 seconds down the road to drop lil Amy and Troy to school. **** when i was a kid i walked two miles to and two miles back from school. And can you even imagine what it gonna be like to charge yr car on yr electric bill?!?!?! This wont be like pluggin in a toaster.

Did you hear me endorsing the school run?

No, it won't be like plugging in a toaster but it'll still be cheaper than petrol. Have you actually done any research into this?

FunnyStuff

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

it would be a great idea if there were charge points on the motorway and around the city area...

.100 km range is more than enough to get from home > work > home in the city...

What about people who dont live in the city!?!?!?! Do we even matter?!?!?!
Or will we have to drive into yr infested hive just to charge up our cars???

krudler

Hydrogen cars are the way to go, cos I love the fact you'd be driving around with something that is so explosive you could blow a hole in the world

krudler

FunnyStuff wrote: »

What about people who dont live in the city!?!?!?! Do we even matter?!?!?!
Or will we have to drive into yr infested hive just to charge up our cars???

You can still use your donkeys, calm down

m@cc@

krudler wrote: »

Hydrogen cars are the way to go, cos I love the fact you'd be driving around with something that is so explosive you could blow a hole in the world

It bizarre I know but I always have the Hindenburg in my mind when it comes to hydrogen cars.

whatdoicare

Aridstarling wrote: »

How about you use two batteries? That way, when one is running low you can swap it out for one that's fully charged. Might only take two minutes and could be done just about anywhere. Why, I guess you could even have three or four or five!

Sounds like a lot of work to me....I fill my car maybe every three weeks, it takes 3 - 5 minutes, changing a battery every 100km and making sure spare batteries are charged before I leave the house is going to be a royal pain in the backside.

Then if I have to drive, say to Dublin from Cork, I'll have to make sure I have extra spare batteries charged for my return trip!

Painful.

donkey balls

krudler wrote: »

You can still use your donkeys, calm down

you wont be using me:D

starbelgrade

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

i think best way forward is hydrogen/electric hybrid hydrogen gives clean power without making the car slow and having an electric engine gives you a boost or lets you crawl in traffic!

I agree with all your points, but I'm quoting this one because, to me it's the most important. We still have no idea what the forerunner car of the future will be - it may well be hydrogen. That would make a lot of sense. But we don't know.

Ireland doesn't manufacture cars, so why should we back a horse we know f*ck all about? It doesn't even have form.

Yes, we got it right with the plastic bag levy & with (I'll say it through my teeth, as a smoker) the smoking ban, but I really feel that this time we're putting our tax money behind the equivalent of the Sinclair C5.

And if you remember the C5, you'll know what I'm talking about.

For everyone else.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5

Mrmoe

I think it is a great idea. Eventually the cars will have batteries that will be more efficent, powerful and last longer. There are already plans to roll out fast charging points along the motorway network. There will be a gap in the market for companies that seize upon this opportunity to develop charging stations and more efficient batteries. Nobody is forcing people to switch over. In this case we will be able to develop our electricity supply network which will pour money back into the country instead of importing oil and give huge financial leverage to wealth oil countries. We can become more energy self sufficient as a result of this.

starbelgrade

Mrmoe wrote: »

In this case we will be able to develop our electricity supply network which will pour money back into the country instead of importing oil and give huge financial leverage to wealth oil countries.

How do you think electricity is generated in Ireland? Mostly from burning fossil fuels.

krudler

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think it is a great idea. Eventually the cars will have batteries that will be more efficent, powerful and last longer. There are already plans to roll out fast charging points along the motorway network. There will be a gap in the market for companies that seize upon this opportunity to develop charging stations and more efficient batteries. Nobody is forcing people to switch over. In this case we will be able to develop our electricity supply network which will pour money back into the country instead of importing oil and give huge financial leverage to wealth oil countries. We can become more energy self sufficient as a result of this.

And then harness the true untapped energy resource that can only be found in Ireland, utilising the wind that Michael O'Leary, Bill Cullen and Brian Cowen exhale and converting it into something worthwhile.

PHB

You can think they are **** all you like, but in 30 years time, every single person, bar the uber rich, is going to be driving them, so you might as well get used to them.

While right now they use the electricity burned by fossil fuels, as our energy generation becomes cleaner, so will the cars. We don't have time to do this in stages, we have to try and do it in one big go. Otherwise, we're ****ed.

m@cc@

PHB wrote: »

You can think they are **** all you like, but in 30 years time, every single person, bar the uber rich, is going to be driving them, so you might as well get used to them.

While right now they use the electricity burned by fossil fuels, as our energy generation becomes cleaner, so will the cars. We don't have time to do this in stages, we have to try and do it in one big go. Otherwise, we're ****ed.

Plus, you have to remember the fossil fuels burned to even refine oil into petrol and diesel for road use.

starbelgrade

PHB wrote: »

You can think they are **** all you like, but in 30 years time, every single person, bar the uber rich, is going to be driving them, so you might as well get used to them.

While right now they use the electricity burned by fossil fuels, as our energy generation becomes cleaner, so will the cars. We don't have time to do this in stages, we have to try and do it in one big go. Otherwise, we're ****ed.

Sensationalist nonsense. You've been watching too many Al Gore films.

m@cc@

starbelgrade wrote: »

Sensationalist nonsense. You've been watching too many Al Gore films.

You haven't watched enough. Al Gore is for raising awareness on 'climate change' not fossil fuel supplies.













*waits for OP to roll out 'PC gone mad' line*

starbelgrade

m@cc@ wrote: »

You haven't watched enough. Al Gore is for raising awareness on 'climate change' not fossil fuel supplies.

Al Gore is a f*ckwit who talks through his hole. Even the climate change gurus feel embarrased by his twaddle.

Overheal

starbelgrade wrote: »

What a sh*t idea. It's bad enough having to charge your phone, but think of the chaos when you have to ask someone if they have a charger for a VW Golf?


Seriously though, the thing that bugs me most about this, is that the government are going to offer €5k grants to purchasers of the car, which will go straight out of the country to Renault who are set to supply the vehicles. Therefor, the taxpayer is subsiding the middle class - ie., those who can afford these almost €40k cars & also subsidising a French motor manufacturer.

There's also no grid set up to charge the things, they only do 100km before they run out of juice & we've no idea if they are even going to be the new type of fueled car that will be predominant in the next few years.

Next we'll be subsiding rich people like bankers and developers.... oh, wait...

You know I was about to rabble on about how backwards it was to oppose Electric Vehicles but I paused - You have One good, very good point: The money is going Out of the Country.

In the States we have the Industries to home-brew the entire setup from the Cars to the Grid, and we've already begun. As for the grid though: You dont need it. Plug in Hybrids are the Vehicle of the Year. And they are already on the market. The charge is long enough to commute on and thensome. And True-Hybrids (Electric Drive only with backup gas generator) with the Plug-In option, will allow for all the range you need. After that, the option is available for a grid, that will allow quick, High Voltage top-ups at gas/petrol stations, in the same way you have Trickle Chargers and Fast-Chargers for electronic devices. The "Grid" is the existing power grid.

But I digress.

Unless Ireland's intention is to become a major manufacturer of either Electric Vehicles or Home Charging Stations, this is a bad fiscal idea. Money goes out, and it creates No Jobs.

Having said that, if this was a 5k subsidy to buy Petrol/Diesel cars, you'd need to make the same argument. Shouldn't matter a damn that it happens to be electrics, which represent a huge automotive leap forward. Nevermind all that Global Warming drudgery: Think about getting off Oil.

m@cc@

starbelgrade wrote: »

Al Gore is a f*ckwit who talks through his hole. Even the climate change gurus feel embarrased by his twaddle.

I didn't say otherwise. You're still wrong.

AnonoBoy

All I know is that I love Scaletrix and the sooner I can drive a life-size one the better.

Overheal

Sharpshooter wrote: »

They only go a short distance though, compared to the car so what happens when you are on the motorway?

Will there be places to pull into to get you to the next part of your journey and how long would that take?

Or are they only intended for short trips?

Inquisitive much, sorry.

Geek reporting.

The Chevy Volt uses a purely Electric Drivetrain. Unlike the First Generation Hybrids that used a Primary Combustion Engine and a Secondary Electric Drive, New Generation Hybrids are relegating the Combustion to Electricity Generation Only. Meaning if your Drive-Battery is Dead or Dying, the Generator Snaps on, sips gas, powers the Electic Drive and Charges the Battery.

The 2011 Volt, when it enters Production late this year, will have a Battery Only Range of 40 miles (64km), powered by a 16KwH Battery, which is chargeable from a standard socket (120V/240V). Microsoft and GE and Ford are co-creating a charging system that will charge your car when electricity is cheapest - you just plug it in when you get home, it will do the math. 40 Miles covers the commute daily range of 75% of all Americans... myself included.

When that 40mi charge is used up, a 4-cylinder 54Kw Generator kicks in and extends the driving range to 300 miles (483km), Powering the Engine while charging the battery with the excess power generated.

What this means to me is if I swapped for a Volt, I would only need to refuel about 3 or 4 times a year, as opposed to 2 or 3 dozen times a year. Take into consideration I can spend $45 filling up my tank on todays rate, you're talking about saving ~$1,300/yr. Multiply that by 75% of all americans.

When it goes on sale it is expected to MSRP less than $37,500, before a $7,500 federal tax rebate. Which given its a Domestically Manufactured vehicle (in the US, via Fledging Detroit, MI): I am completely hyped about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

PeakOutput

people loved them in california no reason they wont work here

AnonoBoy

PeakOutput wrote: »

people loved them in california no reason they wont work here

Yeah but they also love the gays in California.


Oh wait, no they don't.





Damn you Proposition 8. :mad:

starbelgrade

Overheal wrote: »

When it goes on sale it is expected to MSRP less than $37,500, before a $7,500 federal tax rebate.

30 grand is a sh*tload of money to spend on a car whichever way you look at it.

Mrmoe

starbelgrade wrote: »

How do you think electricity is generated in Ireland? Mostly from burning fossil fuels.

Where do you think the money required to purchase those fossil fuels goes? At least with electricity generation you are not soley restricted to using imported sources. Wind energy,tidal energy can at least lessen the burden and flow of cash abroad. Some of thst can be kept here, eventually all of it will be. The only countries that will not be happy are the ones that have us bet over a barrel of oil.