Another stupid Government led idea - Electric Cars

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 01:16AM

krudler wrote: »

Hydrogen cars are the way to go, cos I love the fact you'd be driving around with something that is so explosive you could blow a hole in the world

It bizarre I know but I always have the Hindenburg in my mind when it comes to hydrogen cars.

whatdoicare · 14-04-2010 01:17AM

Aridstarling wrote: »

How about you use two batteries? That way, when one is running low you can swap it out for one that's fully charged. Might only take two minutes and could be done just about anywhere. Why, I guess you could even have three or four or five!

Sounds like a lot of work to me....I fill my car maybe every three weeks, it takes 3 - 5 minutes, changing a battery every 100km and making sure spare batteries are charged before I leave the house is going to be a royal pain in the backside.

Then if I have to drive, say to Dublin from Cork, I'll have to make sure I have extra spare batteries charged for my return trip!

Painful.

donkey balls · 14-04-2010 01:18AM

krudler wrote: »

You can still use your donkeys, calm down

you wont be using me:D

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 01:23AM

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

i think best way forward is hydrogen/electric hybrid hydrogen gives clean power without making the car slow and having an electric engine gives you a boost or lets you crawl in traffic!

I agree with all your points, but I'm quoting this one because, to me it's the most important. We still have no idea what the forerunner car of the future will be - it may well be hydrogen. That would make a lot of sense. But we don't know.

Ireland doesn't manufacture cars, so why should we back a horse we know f*ck all about? It doesn't even have form.

Yes, we got it right with the plastic bag levy & with (I'll say it through my teeth, as a smoker) the smoking ban, but I really feel that this time we're putting our tax money behind the equivalent of the Sinclair C5.

And if you remember the C5, you'll know what I'm talking about.

For everyone else.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5

Mrmoe · 14-04-2010 01:28AM

I think it is a great idea. Eventually the cars will have batteries that will be more efficent, powerful and last longer. There are already plans to roll out fast charging points along the motorway network. There will be a gap in the market for companies that seize upon this opportunity to develop charging stations and more efficient batteries. Nobody is forcing people to switch over. In this case we will be able to develop our electricity supply network which will pour money back into the country instead of importing oil and give huge financial leverage to wealth oil countries. We can become more energy self sufficient as a result of this.

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 01:31AM

Mrmoe wrote: »

In this case we will be able to develop our electricity supply network which will pour money back into the country instead of importing oil and give huge financial leverage to wealth oil countries.

How do you think electricity is generated in Ireland? Mostly from burning fossil fuels.

krudler · 14-04-2010 01:33AM

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think it is a great idea. Eventually the cars will have batteries that will be more efficent, powerful and last longer. There are already plans to roll out fast charging points along the motorway network. There will be a gap in the market for companies that seize upon this opportunity to develop charging stations and more efficient batteries. Nobody is forcing people to switch over. In this case we will be able to develop our electricity supply network which will pour money back into the country instead of importing oil and give huge financial leverage to wealth oil countries. We can become more energy self sufficient as a result of this.

And then harness the true untapped energy resource that can only be found in Ireland, utilising the wind that Michael O'Leary, Bill Cullen and Brian Cowen exhale and converting it into something worthwhile.

PHB · 14-04-2010 01:35AM

You can think they are **** all you like, but in 30 years time, every single person, bar the uber rich, is going to be driving them, so you might as well get used to them.

While right now they use the electricity burned by fossil fuels, as our energy generation becomes cleaner, so will the cars. We don't have time to do this in stages, we have to try and do it in one big go. Otherwise, we're ****ed.

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 01:40AM

PHB wrote: »

You can think they are **** all you like, but in 30 years time, every single person, bar the uber rich, is going to be driving them, so you might as well get used to them.

While right now they use the electricity burned by fossil fuels, as our energy generation becomes cleaner, so will the cars. We don't have time to do this in stages, we have to try and do it in one big go. Otherwise, we're ****ed.

Plus, you have to remember the fossil fuels burned to even refine oil into petrol and diesel for road use.

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 01:40AM

PHB wrote: »

You can think they are **** all you like, but in 30 years time, every single person, bar the uber rich, is going to be driving them, so you might as well get used to them.

While right now they use the electricity burned by fossil fuels, as our energy generation becomes cleaner, so will the cars. We don't have time to do this in stages, we have to try and do it in one big go. Otherwise, we're ****ed.

Sensationalist nonsense. You've been watching too many Al Gore films.

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 01:44AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Sensationalist nonsense. You've been watching too many Al Gore films.

You haven't watched enough. Al Gore is for raising awareness on 'climate change' not fossil fuel supplies.

*waits for OP to roll out 'PC gone mad' line*

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 01:46AM

m@cc@ wrote: »

You haven't watched enough. Al Gore is for raising awareness on 'climate change' not fossil fuel supplies.

Al Gore is a f*ckwit who talks through his hole. Even the climate change gurus feel embarrased by his twaddle.

Overheal · 14-04-2010 01:49AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

What a sh*t idea. It's bad enough having to charge your phone, but think of the chaos when you have to ask someone if they have a charger for a VW Golf?

Seriously though, the thing that bugs me most about this, is that the government are going to offer €5k grants to purchasers of the car, which will go straight out of the country to Renault who are set to supply the vehicles. Therefor, the taxpayer is subsiding the middle class - ie., those who can afford these almost €40k cars & also subsidising a French motor manufacturer.

There's also no grid set up to charge the things, they only do 100km before they run out of juice & we've no idea if they are even going to be the new type of fueled car that will be predominant in the next few years.

Next we'll be subsiding rich people like bankers and developers.... oh, wait...

You know I was about to rabble on about how backwards it was to oppose Electric Vehicles but I paused - You have One good, very good point: The money is going Out of the Country.

In the States we have the Industries to home-brew the entire setup from the Cars to the Grid, and we've already begun. As for the grid though: You dont need it. Plug in Hybrids are the Vehicle of the Year. And they are already on the market. The charge is long enough to commute on and thensome. And True-Hybrids (Electric Drive only with backup gas generator) with the Plug-In option, will allow for all the range you need. After that, the option is available for a grid, that will allow quick, High Voltage top-ups at gas/petrol stations, in the same way you have Trickle Chargers and Fast-Chargers for electronic devices. The "Grid" is the existing power grid.

But I digress.

Unless Ireland's intention is to become a major manufacturer of either Electric Vehicles or Home Charging Stations, this is a bad fiscal idea. Money goes out, and it creates No Jobs.

Having said that, if this was a 5k subsidy to buy Petrol/Diesel cars, you'd need to make the same argument. Shouldn't matter a damn that it happens to be electrics, which represent a huge automotive leap forward. Nevermind all that Global Warming drudgery: Think about getting off Oil.

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 01:52AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Al Gore is a f*ckwit who talks through his hole. Even the climate change gurus feel embarrased by his twaddle.

I didn't say otherwise. You're still wrong.

AnonoBoy · 14-04-2010 01:54AM

All I know is that I love Scaletrix and the sooner I can drive a life-size one the better.

Overheal · 14-04-2010 02:05AM

Sharpshooter wrote: »

They only go a short distance though, compared to the car so what happens when you are on the motorway?

Will there be places to pull into to get you to the next part of your journey and how long would that take?

Or are they only intended for short trips?

Inquisitive much, sorry.

Geek reporting.

The Chevy Volt uses a purely Electric Drivetrain. Unlike the First Generation Hybrids that used a Primary Combustion Engine and a Secondary Electric Drive, New Generation Hybrids are relegating the Combustion to Electricity Generation Only. Meaning if your Drive-Battery is Dead or Dying, the Generator Snaps on, sips gas, powers the Electic Drive and Charges the Battery.

The 2011 Volt, when it enters Production late this year, will have a Battery Only Range of 40 miles (64km), powered by a 16KwH Battery, which is chargeable from a standard socket (120V/240V). Microsoft and GE and Ford are co-creating a charging system that will charge your car when electricity is cheapest - you just plug it in when you get home, it will do the math. 40 Miles covers the commute daily range of 75% of all Americans... myself included.

When that 40mi charge is used up, a 4-cylinder 54Kw Generator kicks in and extends the driving range to 300 miles (483km), Powering the Engine while charging the battery with the excess power generated.

What this means to me is if I swapped for a Volt, I would only need to refuel about 3 or 4 times a year, as opposed to 2 or 3 dozen times a year. Take into consideration I can spend $45 filling up my tank on todays rate, you're talking about saving ~$1,300/yr. Multiply that by 75% of all americans.

When it goes on sale it is expected to MSRP less than $37,500, before a $7,500 federal tax rebate. Which given its a Domestically Manufactured vehicle (in the US, via Fledging Detroit, MI): I am completely hyped about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

PeakOutput · 14-04-2010 02:07AM

people loved them in california no reason they wont work here

AnonoBoy · 14-04-2010 02:17AM

PeakOutput wrote: »

people loved them in california no reason they wont work here

Yeah but they also love the gays in California.

Oh wait, no they don't.

Damn you Proposition 8. :mad:

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 02:17AM

Overheal wrote: »

When it goes on sale it is expected to MSRP less than $37,500, before a $7,500 federal tax rebate.

30 grand is a sh*tload of money to spend on a car whichever way you look at it.

Mrmoe · 14-04-2010 02:19AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

How do you think electricity is generated in Ireland? Mostly from burning fossil fuels.

Where do you think the money required to purchase those fossil fuels goes? At least with electricity generation you are not soley restricted to using imported sources. Wind energy,tidal energy can at least lessen the burden and flow of cash abroad. Some of thst can be kept here, eventually all of it will be. The only countries that will not be happy are the ones that have us bet over a barrel of oil.

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 02:20AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

30 grand is a sh*tload of money to spend on a car whichever way you look at it.

Not so bad when you convert it into Euros.

Overheal · 14-04-2010 02:23AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

30 grand is a sh*tload of money to spend on a car whichever way you look at it.

Sure. Definitely the Middle Income Bracket, but its hardly the Mercedes or an Escalade

You have to start somewhere. The Volt is the first of many emerging examples, but Ill have to pay more attention to all the car commercials ive been inundated with. Hyundai has been heavily advertising their new plugins, Ive just not been paying attention

Its not unreasonable to believe plugins will be available in the 20k and even 10k brackets within just a handful of years. For the Wealthy, theres even the Sports-Electrics, like the $100k Tesla. But there you go, aiming too high, reaching a narrow customer base, and kinda getting screwed out of major potential. Middle Income bracket: the biggest single base, with expendable income. How the hell can you go wrong?

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 02:24AM

m@cc@ wrote: »

Not so bad when you convert it into Euros.

With taxes & transport costs, electric cars here are gonna cost just under the €40k mark, so €35k with the government grant.

For that, I could buy 5 x 2005 VW Golfs. One for every working day of the week.

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 02:26AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

With taxes & transport costs, electric cars here are gonna cost just under the €40k mark, so €35k with the government grant.

For that, I could buy 5 x 2005 VW Golfs. One for every working day of the week.

Do you have a source for this information?

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 02:33AM

m@cc@ wrote: »

Do you have a source for this information?

I bought a VW Golf, 2005, last year for just over €7k from a garage in Cavan. That's my source.

You can also get private sales from the likes of cbg.ie, but you'd be a fool to pay the asking price.. here's a list of some on offer.. http://www.cbg.ie/searchResults.aspx?page=1

sdanseo · 14-04-2010 02:36AM

Sheeps wrote: »

They are actually a good idea, it's a shame you've got no idea what you're talking about.

They're useless in their current form.

With a range of 100km yes, they'll cater for most urban journeys. The problem is that most people either make regular journeys that push that distance, whether it be every week, every months etc and it won't suit them to have to charge up enroute, or simply don't want the hassle of having to charge even though their journeys allow for it.

Then there's the issue of charging on motorways etc - all very well, but on a long journey you'd need to charge at least twice between say Dublin and Cork. At present the government has decided to scrap the majority of the planned motorway service areas, so where will these charging points go? Do they expect motorists to pull off the motorway, drive a mile to a garage, sit in the car while it charges for god knows how long, then drive the mile back to the motorway? Twice? Get real.

As for every 60km, that's a joke. With a 100km range you've only to miss one stop to end up on the hard shoulder. What will there be, AA vans with massive battery chargers in the back littering our motorways?

These cars are only practical for those who NEVER make journeys over 100/200km or who are willing to put up with massive breaks in such trips, or for those lucky enough to be able to afford and accommodate two cars per person, let alone per family. That excludes me, my entire extended family and just about every other motorist I know. It in effect defeats the purpose of having a car.

Minister Ryan said on Prime Time in his eternal wisdom that we should be leading the way with this technology, rather than installing these points years after it takes off. But there's little point leading the way by installing the power points if you're not going to build proper infrastructure to go with it.

What we need is a proper Hybrid car which uses technology similar to diesel electric trains - a fuel engine charging an electric battery. The batter can be topped up while the car is parked and used for day to day running, but if you need to, you can kick in the diesel and motor along as per the 20th century status quo.

In an ideal world of course we'd be trying to seperate Hydrogen molecules and tap that resource - if we could seperate water (H2O being two Hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, chemically bonded), we'd have the solution to mankind's fuel and flooding problems in less than a week.

Don't get me wrong - I think installing these points and offering the incentive is a good idea in theory. It will work brilliantly for the few who choose to buy these cars. But a minority, and a small one at that is all it'll ever be for the forseeable future.

m@cc@ · 14-04-2010 02:37AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I bought a VW Golf, 2005, last year for just over €7k from a garage in Cavan. That's my source.

You can also get private sales from the likes of cbg.ie, but you'd be a fool to pay the asking price.. here's a list of some on offer.. http://www.cbg.ie/searchResults.aspx?page=1

I was referring to the price of electric cars. What's your source for those prices?

Sheeps · 14-04-2010 02:41AM

FunnyStuff wrote: »

I'd like to see it when you need to pull in off the side of the road to charge your car in the nearest top up facility. Do you think this is like putting petrol in yr car? 5 minutes and yr done? Some of these things will need to be charged for 8 ****in hours!!!

Whats the ****in point if a trip from one side of the country to the other requires an overnight stay!?!?!?

If you don't like the cars, you don't have to buy one, I really don't understand why you're so angry.

Oil is going to run out one of these days in the near distant future (30-100 years) and the sooner we make the transition to oils replacement as a fuel for vehicles the better.

If people start buying them now, the cars are only going to get better faster, which means we don't have to make a more dramatic switch over a shorter period of time way down the line.

sdanseo · 14-04-2010 02:45AM

Sheeps wrote: »

Oil is going to run out one of these days in the near distant future (30-100 years) and the sooner we make the transition to oils replacement as a fuel for vehicles the better.

Granted. But I think the car manufatcurers and the government are overestimating the willpower of people to give up the ability of being able to take their car further than 60 miles on a charge. To me it undermines the entire point of having one - if you want to save the environment and reduce car costs, and only make journeys in the city (as these cars are intended for, mainly) - then get the bus!

starbelgrade · 14-04-2010 02:47AM

When MP3 players first came out, I bought one. It had 1 MB of memory, was the size of a small brick & cost €300.

These days you can get 10 times the memory for around €40, and it's the size of a tampon.

I feel like I was not only impulsive, but conned.

If Ireland tries to go all out on electrical cars & backs it up with taxpayers money, we're gonna end up the same - with egg on our faces.

Compared to MP3 players, record players are absolute museum pieces, but at least they were tried & tested before everyone had one - and if you still have a working one & were to Ebay it, it would probably fetch more now than it did when you bought it back in the annals of time.

Let someone else do the dry run.

Another stupid Government led idea - Electric Cars

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