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More private-sector cuts on the way

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    sorry guys im not a union man. i dont go in for their bull****.

    however i do disagree with my pay being cut further. as i said im quite willing to put up with previous ones for the good of the country. But i like most people have a mortgage etc and any more cuts will be nasty.

    also as i said i work hard and interact with the public every day, who are usually very grateful for my services. im quite happy to upskill and take on extra responsibility for nothing in return (except no more cuts obviously)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    Flex wrote: »
    It would be more accurate to state that you are in denial (refusing to acknowledge ERSI reports, CSO statistics, comparisons of pay to other OECD countries, current tax revenue vs expenditure, etc and trying to dismiss them with "facts and figures are meaningless" type statements and hyberbolic strawmen arguments), rather than everyone else being jealous.
    just saying it as i see it....

    what reason did you have to look up all those facts and figures? you wanted to know what public servants earn and post on this board to give out about it. why? because they have something you dont and you want it taken off them

    simple


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭DidierMc


    murphaph wrote: »
    Not until Haughey cut public sector spending dramatically and was able to reduce corporation tax as a result. The export led growth that followed was a direct result of that policy. But let's not bother with the facts eh?

    It was the low wages in Ireland that brought in US FDI. But yes the fact that Ireland was piss poor had alot to do with good old Charlie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    There will be no more cuts in Public Sector wages.

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    murf313 wrote: »
    sorry but do you have proof that PS is overpaid 30-50%? thats a pretty sweeping statement?


    They have been posted numerous times, look up ESRI report on the pay differential on public and private sector wages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D




    They have been posted numerous times, look up ESRI report on the pay differential on public and private sector wages.
    so you are telling me that report will state that all public sector employees are overpaid by 30-50% in black and white?

    or is that the figure you boardsies (ps haters) have came up with after reading the figures?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    murf313 wrote: »
    sorry guys im not a union man. i dont go in for their bull****.
    you are using same arguments

    murf313 wrote: »
    however i do disagree with my pay being cut further.
    thats natural, but your employer is bankrupt and has a large and growing "mortgage" being taken out to keep the banks, entitlements and public sector gravy trains rollling, dont believe me luck up the figures provided by your fellow PS workers in CSO and Dept of Finance

    this year it would have to pay 5-6 billion in servicing this mortgage, thats money that could have been put towards something more useful like better infrastructure or (gasp) a stimulus

    next year its gonna grow, and then again after that and for the next few years up to about 10 billion (if not more) per year, to put that into perspective we collect 35 billion in taxes, so in an example you might understand, a large chunk going to pay a mortgage the country is taking to (in part) pay you

    murf313 wrote: »
    as i said im quite willing to put up with previous ones for the good of the country.

    yes I get it, you didnt cause the mess, but you did participate by taking out a mortgage and availing of benchmarking and any non performance related increments

    murf313 wrote: »
    But i like most people have a mortgage etc and any more cuts will be nasty.

    do you want pain now or do you want more pain later along with your children experiencing it?

    take a pick
    murf313 wrote: »
    also as i said i work hard and interact with the public every day, who are usually very grateful for my services. im quite happy to upskill and take on extra responsibility for nothing in return (except no more cuts obviously)

    i sure hope you do, we the people of this country expect nothing less than a good, value for money service

    if you cant deliver that, then step aside and let someone else get the job

    im not sure why some PS workers are taking it personally, the numbers are not on your side lads, and by pissing off the public via strikes and withdrawal of services you lot certainly are not making any friends


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    murf313 wrote: »
    BALANCED JUDGEMENT????

    thats a good one!!! there is no such thing on this board!

    many times ive said i agree that pay has to be cut, share the pain and all that! but it has to stop some where......

    but you people wont be happy until everyone in the public service is on the breadline.

    i work damn hard for my pay every week but i still see crap like "lazy workers, 23 tea breaks a day, gold plated pensions etc.) it gets old.....
    murf313 wrote: »
    more high horse crap.

    no-one here really cares about balancing books....

    deep down your all pissed off because someone has something thats better than you and you want it taken off them. when you strip away all the figure quoting and rhetoric, its just plain jealousy. its human nature

    Well glad to see you know the minds and thoughts of everyone on here, can I ask how you manage that?
    You still ignore any figures and facts given and do not back up anything you say.
    I for one know I will trust facts and figures before one persons judgement


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    murf313 wrote: »
    just saying it as i see it....

    what reason did you have to look up all those facts and figures? you wanted to know what public servants earn and post on this board to give out about it. why? because they have something you dont and you want it taken off them

    simple

    For God sake people look up facts and figures so they can form a judgement based on reality, like everyone should. And when they don't suit your argument you try and say it is because we are all jealous! If you haven't looked up the facts and figures yourself how were you able to say you do not believe the difference in pay, what was it is a gut feeling???? Do some research and base your arguments on facts not feelings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    Flex wrote: »
    It would be more accurate to state that you are in denial (refusing to acknowledge ERSI reports, CSO statistics, comparisons of pay to other OECD countries, current tax revenue vs expenditure, etc and trying to dismiss them with "facts and figures are meaningless" type statements and hyberbolic strawmen arguments), rather than everyone else being jealous.

    The public service and social welfare cost around the same. Why is it only one of them ever comes in for this type/level of analysis ?

    Facts and figures aren't meaningless but they are clearly more than a little bit misleading in this instance. (taking the average as a meaningful number)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    i sure hope you do, we the people of this country expect nothing less than a good, value for money service

    if you cant deliver that, then step aside and let someone else get the job

    im not sure why some PS workers are taking it personally, the numbers are not on your side lads, and by pissing off the public via strikes and withdrawal of services you lot certainly are not making any friends
    i wasnt being sarcastic in my post?? if you had to deal with some of the scumbags who abuse the system you might not want to do my job.

    normally i dont take things personally. But when certain people here are continually posting their propeganda, you cant help but take it personally.
    remember lads you cant tar everyone with the same brush.....

    (the last thing i would want is a strike, people will only suffer if we withdraw our services)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Well glad to see you know the minds and thoughts of everyone on here, can I ask how you manage that?
    You still ignore any figures and facts given and do not back up anything you say.
    I for one know I will trust facts and figures before one persons judgement
    i know because there wasnt one post on public service pay until the sindo and the govt started their public v private propeganda.

    im not ignoring figures, i only asked where it states that ALL public servants are paid 30-50% more?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    murf313 wrote: »
    i know because there wasnt one post on public service pay until the sindo and the govt started their public v private propeganda.

    im not ignoring figures, i only asked where it states that ALL public servants are paid 30-50% more?

    Oh good so no one here thinks for themselves just believes the government and papers, must remember that when reading your next post.
    It does not state ALL public servants, it states averages like I said previously.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Oh good so no one here thinks for themselves just believes the government and papers, must remember that when reading your next post.
    It does not state ALL public servants, it states averages like I said previously.
    to be honest it doesn't look that way.... you all seem to be quoting and copying each others posts. doesn't sound like independant thought to me.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    murf313 wrote: »
    to be honest it doesn't look that way.... you all seem to be quoting and copying each others posts. doesn't sound like independant thought to me.....

    It's strange that PS workers were more than happy with figures when their wages were getting benchmarked upwards. Not so happy with the same figures now?

    why so?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    yes I get it, you didnt cause the mess, but you did participate by taking out a mortgage and availing of benchmarking and any non performance related increments

    i couldnt help taking out a mortgage, its kinda hard to buy a house without one. but if i had a crystal ball at the time i wouldnt of taken one.....

    it would be impossible to give performance related increments in my line of work....

    are you suggesting i should of turned down benchmarking?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    murf313 wrote: »
    to be honest it doesn't look that way.... you all seem to be quoting and copying each others posts. doesn't sound like independant thought to me.....

    Possible the reason for that could be, we have study this and have done some research maybe????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    ntlbell wrote: »
    It's strange that PS workers were more than happy with figures when their wages were getting benchmarked upwards. Not so happy with the same figures now?

    why so?
    i rest my case


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Possible the reason for that could be, we have study this and have done some research maybe????
    possible..... i doubt it though seeing as you all gang up at the first chance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    murf313 wrote: »
    i rest my case

    What case?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭Citizen_Cutback


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    i try where possible to backup my opinion/thesis with references, it be nice if more people did that too

    hint i had a thread on subject recently with plenty of graphs and figures on above

    your post is nothing more than waffle thats not grounded in reality

    Please name just five indigenous Private Sector export companies to substantiate your claim that we have exporting companies in the Private Sector.
    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    you can start by looking at import/export figures
    the proceede to lookup the number employed now and few years in export generating part of the private sector, and for that matter anything not related to construction

    Oh and yes please do not mention construction in relation to exports; If only we could export those 300,000 surplus houses.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    murf313 wrote: »
    possible..... i doubt it though seeing as you all gang up at the first chance

    Oh so because more people disagree with you than agree with you, they are just drones with no self thought? Very interesting, what do you call them if more agree with you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    murf313 wrote: »
    i couldnt help taking out a mortgage, its kinda hard to buy a house without one. but if i had a crystal ball at the time i wouldnt of taken one.....

    it would be impossible to give performance related increments in my line of work....

    are you suggesting i should of turned down benchmarking?

    You could have done a number of things.

    Rented.

    Stress tested your mortgage against decrease in wages + interest hikes.

    As you're in the job longer, surley you're more efficient now or better at it than before, or not as the case maybe, I'm sure some performance managment could be put in place, there's an interesting few posts on it in the teachers thread.

    Your rejecting cuts, why not incorrect bench marking?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    murf313 wrote: »
    i couldnt help taking out a mortgage, its kinda hard to buy a house without one.

    yes it is hard, but can be done :p

    not to mention the government had plans to decentralise and hence PS workers could have availed of cheaper/larger housing than Dublin for their buck...

    murf313 wrote: »
    but if i had a crystal ball at the time i wouldnt of taken one.....

    hindsight :) i suppose you were told "rent is dead money" ...

    murf313 wrote: »
    it would be impossible to give performance related increments in my line of work....

    fair enough, i dont know where you work

    most of last years cuts have been wiped our by increments since, i bet you the public sector cost this year be still larger than in 2009
    murf313 wrote: »
    are you suggesting i should of turned down benchmarking?

    you have no problem complaining about "reverse benchmarking" :D

    you were given more money for no productivity gain, imagine that! and the public was promised reform (dejavu) which didnt materialise


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    murf313 wrote: »
    i rest my case


    you don't have a case.

    Havig a mortgage isn't one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    ntlbell wrote: »
    you don't have a case.

    Havig a mortgage isn't one.
    that wasnt my case. I stated that people are repeating the same crap over and over and you did exactly that in your post.
    ntlbell wrote: »
    You could have done a number of things.

    Rented.

    Stress tested your mortgage against decrease in wages + interest hikes.

    As you're in the job longer, surley you're more efficient now or better at it than before, or not as the case maybe, I'm sure some performance managment could be put in place, there's an interesting few posts on it in the teachers thread.

    Your rejecting cuts, why not incorrect bench marking?
    I did do that, infact i got my mortgage when i worked in the PRIVATE sector and i earned MORE money. i can afford my mortgage after the previous cuts but future ones would be pushing it.
    with regards to performance related increments i would wholeheartedly agree with them but unfortunatly in my line of work i dont think it would be possible.
    would you have rejected extra pay?
    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Oh so because more people disagree with you than agree with you, they are just drones with no self thought? Very interesting, what do you call them if more agree with you?
    fair enough, i was getting a bit petty there. im sure there a are plenty of people on this board with free thought.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    yes it is hard, but can be done :p

    not to mention the government had plans to decentralise and hence PS workers could have availed of cheaper/larger housing than Dublin for their buck...




    hindsight :) i suppose you were told "rent is dead money" ...




    fair enough, i dont know where you work

    most of last years cuts have been wiped our by increments since, i bet you the public sector cost this year be still larger than in 2009



    you have no problem complaining about "reverse benchmarking" :D

    you were given more money for no productivity gain, imagine that! and the public was promised reform (dejavu) which didnt materialise
    I dont live in dublin, i bought in an area that i could afford.

    in hindsight i wish i had of rented but as i said i didnt have a crystal ball and didnt know how thing would turn out!

    any increments in my job aren't worth talking about and they certainly didnt wipe out the pay cuts.

    in fairness you cannot measure productivity in the ambulance service. the work that needs doing is done. end of


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    murf313 wrote: »

    I did do that, infact i got my mortgage when i worked in the PRIVATE sector and i earned MORE money. i can afford my mortgage after the previous cuts but future ones would be pushing it.
    with regards to performance related increments i would wholeheartedly agree with them but unfortunatly in my line of work i dont think it would be possible.
    would you have rejected extra pay?

    What has it got to do with your employer tho, we can't base wages on peoples level of personal debt, a mortgage is a risky buisness.

    There's very few lines of work that can be moitored one way or another, maybe if you give us an indication of what you did we could give you an idea to pass on to your employer ;)

    I don't have an option to reject extra pay.

    When *I* preform above and BEYOND my contract obligatations, I'm rewarded.

    Now that my employer can't afford to do that anymore I continue to do more than I'm expected for the same pay because it's in my interest and the countires interest that we have a work force willing to do a bit more to get us out of this mess.

    I don't have that much of a problem with you accepting extra pay for nothing, I do have a problem with you whining about having your pay reduced when it's obvious your employer cant afford it anymore


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Boy, there sure are some PS haters on this thread. No doubt happy to have yet another go at Public Servants, now that they have come home from a hard day's woork in the Private Sector:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Boy, there sure are some PS haters on this thread. No doubt happy to have yet another go at Public Servants, now that they have come home from a hard day's woork in the Private Sector:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I haven't seen much hate towrds the PS, there's a lot of valid point on PS pay cuts etc.

    Why don't you join in and counter with some of your own points.

    or did you just want to get a few :rolleyes::rolleyes: in


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