Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Podge_irl · 02-04-2012 2:55pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Hard to know, O'Gara isn't playing as well as he thinks he is, but he's not quite as bad as that either. Ultimately it's up to young players to win their places. There is a massive downside to that, and I think everyone can see that Zebo wouldn't have gotten a run but for Howlett's injury but it's still a central tenet of every squad, even Leinster with d'Arcy (somehow) holding his place ahead of McFadden etc.

The thing is, the window of opportunity for young players in any established squad to play with the "first" team is quite small, guys like Keatley have to impress in their cameos, like guys like Sherry and TOD have recently. Sherry is already pushing Varley, it's up to Keatley to be so good that he's pushing O'Gara. Of course, it's far, far harder to do that from outhalf, but Keatley doesn't help himself enough, imo.

Yeah, I was horrendously over-starting how poor ROG has been cause it was 2 in the morning.

ROG hit some form around Christmas and was playing reasonably well up until the 6N but has fallen away a bit again since. You are right in that younger players need to earn their place, but Keatley just isn't getting a chance with the full team. He's also almost never coming off the bench - I understand entirely why Munster want ROG on towards the end if the game is close but then they should be trying to give Keatley some game time from the start. If its going poorly then yank him off.

It'll be interesting to see how a new coach approaches it.

Amazotheamazing · 02-04-2012 6:40pm

Reports saying Ferris could be a real doubt for the weekend. Hard to know what this means for the match, he's one of the best players in Europe and even half fit he has to start you'd think.

budhabob · 02-04-2012 6:45pm

With our trio of injuries looking likely to be back, this would be a real boost. Saying that if we're going to get through the quarters you'd rather it be without any excuses.

Amazotheamazing · 02-04-2012 6:56pm

budhabob wrote: »

With our trio of injuries looking likely to be back, this would be a real boost. Saying that if we're going to get through the quarters you'd rather it be without any excuses.

Meh, if we don't win we'll no doubt have plenty of excuses too. if only Fla or Wallace were fit, if Jones or Sherry hadn't missed a lot of the season, if Howlett was playing etc.

budhabob · 02-04-2012 6:58pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Meh, if we don't win we'll no doubt have plenty of excuses too. if only Fla or Wallace were fit, if Jones or Sherry hadn't missed a lot of the season, if Howlett was playing etc.

Good point.....with that in mind fingers crossed ferris is out.

jm08 · 02-04-2012 7:13pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yeah, I was horrendously over-starting how poor ROG has been cause it was 2 in the morning.

ROG hit some form around Christmas and was playing reasonably well up until the 6N but has fallen away a bit again since. You are right in that younger players need to earn their place, but Keatley just isn't getting a chance with the full team. He's also almost never coming off the bench - I understand entirely why Munster want ROG on towards the end if the game is close but then they should be trying to give Keatley some game time from the start. If its going poorly then yank him off.

It'll be interesting to see how a new coach approaches it.

O'gara has hardly played since Northampton in jan. he was released to play against Treviso, other than that is was about 2 x 60 mins in the 6Ns. Treviso was about 6 weeks ago which is the last time he has placed kicked in a match situation. he needed 80 mins last weekend- just not the time to be blooding keatley.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 02-04-2012 7:14pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Meh, if we don't win we'll no doubt have plenty of excuses too. if only Fla or Wallace were fit, if Jones or Sherry hadn't missed a lot of the season, if Howlett was playing etc.

The list of excuses is near endless, but hopefully we won't have to delve into it.

Amazotheamazing · 02-04-2012 7:22pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The list of excuses is near endless, but hopefully we won't have to delve into it.

No harm to remind ourselves that we're facing into this game up against it.

Brewster · 02-04-2012 7:47pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The list of excuses is near endless, but hopefully we won't have to delve into it.

No harm to remind ourselves that we're facing into this game up against it.

The mind games are starting early!! Munster are strong favourites for this game, just ask the bookies. Ulster have a poor record of winning big games away from home. Bath away is the only game I can remember them winning in last years group stages. Aironi away doesn't count! They lost to Biarritz, Leicester, Northampton, Clermont away from home over last two years. Had game been in Belfast, it would be a different prospect.

Fireball07 · 02-04-2012 7:53pm

Brewster wrote: »

The mind games are starting early!! Munster are strong favourites for this game, just ask the bookies. Ulster have a poor record of winning big games away from home. Bath away is the only game I can remember them winning in last years group stages. Aironi away doesn't count! They lost to Biarritz, Leicester, Northampton, Clermont away from home over last two years. Had game been in Belfast, it would be a different prospect.

Yeah but Munster only barely scraped a home win against Northampton in all that and none of their other HC performances were massively impressive, certainly nothing to scare Ulster. And with a struggling scrum, doubts over the fitness of 3 of their key players and with their best outside back out injured, Ulster must be really fancying their chances.

Obviously Ferris would be a huge blow if he did miss out, might swing the back row advantage back in favour of Munster.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 02-04-2012 8:17pm

Brewster wrote: »

The mind games are starting early!! Munster are strong favourites for this game, just ask the bookies. Ulster have a poor record of winning big games away from home. Bath away is the only game I can remember them winning in last years group stages. Aironi away doesn't count! They lost to Biarritz, Leicester, Northampton, Clermont away from home over last two years. Had game been in Belfast, it would be a different prospect.

Bookies odds are heavily skewed by betting patterns. Munster fans will always bet on their province winning at home in the HEC and the odds reflect that.

Munster have a squad both decimated and disrupted by injuries, poor form going into the games, and were missing their star forward's coach for over a month.

The Thomond Park aspect probably makes Munster favourites, but making them strong favourites just ignores too many current aspects and just focuses on Munster's history. Personally, I think we'll do very well to come out with a win against an inform and settled Ulster side.

02-04-2012 8:19pm

Bookies odds are not affected by betting patterns per se. The market can be moved by substantial bets being placed, but a bookmaker makes their money by setting a line that they think is "the most correct".

Tote betting is different though, I think that's what you're confusing it with.

Amazotheamazing · 02-04-2012 8:39pm

Brewster wrote: »

The mind games are starting early!! Munster are strong favourites for this game, just ask the bookies. Ulster have a poor record of winning big games away from home. Bath away is the only game I can remember them winning in last years group stages. Aironi away doesn't count! They lost to Biarritz, Leicester, Northampton, Clermont away from home over last two years. Had game been in Belfast, it would be a different prospect.

Every team has to break the the cycle now and then, Ulster are the perfect team to win in Thomond.

Brewster · 02-04-2012 10:08pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Brewster wrote: »

The mind games are starting early!! Munster are strong favourites for this game, just ask the bookies. Ulster have a poor record of winning big games away from home. Bath away is the only game I can remember them winning in last years group stages. Aironi away doesn't count! They lost to Biarritz, Leicester, Northampton, Clermont away from home over last two years. Had game been in Belfast, it would be a different prospect.

Every team has to break the the cycle now and then, Ulster are the perfect team to win in Thomond.

Oh Ulster have a great chance but people have written Munster off time and time again... Poite is not a homer so could this be a factor?! Absolutely can't wait for game, nice roast lamb Sunday dinner before watching game, having been at Aviva to see Leinster through the night before hopefully!

Buceph · 03-04-2012 12:30am

No, you're the favourite!
No, you are.
You're the favourite!
I am not, you are!

DDC1990 · 03-04-2012 8:24am

Brewster wrote: »

Oh Ulster have a great chance but people have written Munster off time and time again... Poite is not a homer so could this be a factor?! Absolutely can't wait for game, nice roast lamb Sunday dinner before watching game, having been at Aviva to see Leinster through the night before hopefully!

Its not that he's not a homer, he just tends to favour anyone but Munster.

budhabob · 03-04-2012 8:29am

“The scan revealed significant damage to Stevie’s left ankle and it is unlikely that he’ll be available for Sunday,” said an Ulster spokesman.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0403/1224314296127.html

With Ferris out and POC back it puts us in a great position for the weekend.

GerM · 03-04-2012 8:31am

DDC1990 wrote: »

Its not that he's not a homer, he just tends to favour anyone but Munster.

He calls it as he sees it, rewarding the scrum going forward and doesn't appreciate lip from the players. Munster have had him more than enough times to know how he handles the game. He has refereed Munster twice this season in the HEC. Munster lost two games with him in charge last season, away to Ospreys and home to Harlequins. Neither defeat was Poite's fault. He favours nobody.

GerM · 03-04-2012 8:33am

budhabob wrote: »

“The scan revealed significant damage to Stevie’s left ankle and it is unlikely that he’ll be available for Sunday,” said an Ulster spokesman.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0403/1224314296127.html

With Ferris out and POC back it puts us in a great position for the weekend.

Game over I reckon, to be honest. Ulster are about 75% of the team they would be with Ferris. He makes a massive difference to them, more than POC does even with Munster. I would think Munster to win by about 10 now given home advantage.

bamboozle · 03-04-2012 9:22am

was at Clontarf v Garryowen at the weekend, the garryowen centre Corey Hircock looked excellent, i've seen Dineen play 12 for Con and Barnes play 13 for Dolphin and Hircock's performance on Sat was the best i've seen from an opposition centre this season. Similar style to Eoin O'Malley. I'd say we'll see him playing for munster next season.

totallegend · 03-04-2012 9:30am

Just saw this on the Connacht thread:

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Denis Fogarty is off to France next season.

Posted on Sunday, was it an April Fool?

ed7890 · 03-04-2012 9:43am

totallegend wrote: »

Just saw this on the Connacht thread:

Posted on Sunday, was it an April Fool?

I saw that somewhere else as well, I think it's true.

jm08 · 03-04-2012 9:51am

Looks like I was right about ogara's comments about retiring. According to Brian Odriscoll (who is also a bit pissed off with being asked about when he is going to retire) said that ROG mentioned he was going to retire at 38 so that people would get of his back and stop asking him about retiring.

Sounds all good for BOD as well. He can take the bits now.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0403/1224314296144.html

Amazotheamazing · 03-04-2012 10:05am

bamboozle wrote: »

was at Clontarf v Garryowen at the weekend, the garryowen centre Corey Hircock looked excellent, i've seen Dineen play 12 for Con and Barnes play 13 for Dolphin and Hircock's performance on Sat was the best i've seen from an opposition centre this season. Similar style to Eoin O'Malley. I'd say we'll see him playing for munster next season.

I don't know, if we were going to play him would we be bringing in Lualala? He might have been better off staying in the Championship.

castie · 03-04-2012 10:06am

GerM wrote: »

He calls it as he sees it, rewarding the scrum going forward and doesn't appreciate lip from the players. Munster have had him more than enough times to know how he handles the game. He has refereed Munster twice this season in the HEC. Munster lost two games with him in charge last season, away to Ospreys and home to Harlequins. Neither defeat was Poite's fault. He favours nobody.

Yes he rewards the scrum going forward which alot of the time is the incorrect call. NH being a prime example of a team with alot of power and trickery to make it look like your infringing.

Hes been at this long enough to watch videos and get to grips rather than favouring the one team for the whole game at scrum time.

This then filters down and pisses off the players who may not keep their mouths shut and then lose decisions elsewhere because of that.

totallegend · 03-04-2012 10:07am

jm08 wrote: »

Looks like I was right about ogara's comments about retiring. According to Brian Odriscoll (who is also a bit pissed off with being asked about when he is going to retire) said that ROG mentioned he was going to retire at 38 so that people would get of his back and stop asking him about retiring.

Then he shouldn't have threatened to retire during the World Cup.

jm08 · 03-04-2012 10:11am

totallegend wrote: »

Then he shouldn't have threatened to retire during the World Cup.

Wouldn't make much difference. BOD is also a bit fed up of being asked when he is going to retire.

Anyway, that was just internationally. He might have 2nd thoughts again as sitting on the bench for 2 months certainly doesn't help his game when he comes back to his club.

ed7890 · 03-04-2012 10:17am

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't know, if we were going to play him would we be bringing in Lualala? He might have been better off staying in the Championship.

He's only in the academy now sure. Lualala coming wont stop him getting a handful of Pro12 games next year to see how he gets on.

totallegend · 03-04-2012 10:23am

jm08 wrote: »

Wouldn't make much difference. BOD is also a bit fed up of being asked when he is going to retire.

Anyway, that was just internationally. He might have 2nd thoughts again as sitting on the bench for 2 months certainly doesn't help his game when he comes back to his club.

I don't want to risk this thread getting locked like the others, so I'll just make a statement of fact then leave it at that.

ROG cannot retire from internationals only and just play on for Munster; he is on a central contract. It's all or nothing, or he negotiates a new provincial contract.

Reply if you want, I'm out.

jm08 · 03-04-2012 10:42am

castie wrote: »

Yes he rewards the scrum going forward which alot of the time is the incorrect call. NH being a prime example of a team with alot of power and trickery to make it look like your infringing.

Hes been at this long enough to watch videos and get to grips rather than favouring the one team for the whole game at scrum time.

This then filters down and pisses off the players who may not keep their mouths shut and then lose decisions elsewhere because of that.

I think POC and Poitre get on reasonably well now. He lets Munster get away with murder at the breakdown. He even joked in the game against northampton when munster were looking for a penalty for something that he wasn't giving, that "your not in thomond park now".

His mind is well decided about the scrum though. Not sure if its just Northampton's scrum being completely dominant or that Munster just has a poor scrum. Botha has always had problems with Northampton's one. I'd imagine he will be well up for this game considering how he was more or less discarded by Ulster and would want to prove a point. He should also be very familiar with the Ulster scrummaging techniques.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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