Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Amazotheamazing

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Yeah but that doesn't mean Holland will be pulling the strings as a backs coach. Gaffney apparently didn't do much as a back coach for Ireland because Kidney kept digging his oar in.

He'll still have the title but I think he should be marginalised withing the setup. That said to be honest I don't know cause I don't know how much backs coaching is being done by Holland and how much by McGahan whose own speciality is the backs.

Hard to know, our backs are severely limited by an outhalf with absolutely no break and a 12 who is on a different wavelength to the rest of the team, and no matter what we try seems determined to stay that way. I like Mafi for a lot of reasons but he's never really been the 12 we need.

jm08

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I dunno, just there was a lot of complaints (Matt Williams for one) about Gaffney getting the blame when Kidney was pushing out a lot things that Gaffney uses.

Don't understand what you mean when you say Kidney was pushing out a lot of things that Gaffney uses.

Probably nothing more than Williams looking out for his old pal Gaffney. Didn't hear too many complaints from anyone about Gaffney leaving either Ireland or Leinster.

Fireball07

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Hard to know, our backs are severely limited by an outhalf with absolutely no break and a 12 who is on a different wavelength to the rest of the team, and no matter what we try seems determined to stay that way. I like Mafi for a lot of reasons but he's never really been the 12 we need.

I thought the backs were good against Northampton. The potential is there, even with Mafi at 12 and ROG at out-half.

I think a proper backs coach could make them very effective.

Flincher

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I dunno, just there was a lot of complaints (Matt Williams for one) about Gaffney getting the blame when Kidney was pushing out a lot things that Gaffney uses.

Williams could well be sticking up for his mate there. One obvious difference about Ireland's backplay this year has been the use of depth. I can recall Gaffney saying depth looked pretty, but wasn't very effective. Off the top of my head, both our tries v Wales, both of Bowe's v Italy and Trimble v Scotland all came directly from the backs lying deep. Actually, Bowe's tries against Wales, and the second against Italy, came straight from a move where Sexton stood almost directly behind a ruck.

Depth was something which Gaffney didn't use, and we have seen tangible benefits from it over the course of the 6 Nations, without a recognised backs coach.

jm08

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

They both have contracts, afaik.

Holland signed his last contract two years ago (feb 2010) when McGahan, fisher & Payne also signed contracts. Hard do see how McGahan would have got a 2 year contract and Holland a 3 year one.

Cpt_Blackbeard

jm08 wrote: »

Holland signed his last contract two years ago (feb 2010) when McGahan, fisher & Payne also signed contracts. Hard do see how McGahan would have got a 2 year contract and Holland a 3 year one.

There was definitely a lot of chatter on MunsterFans that we can't just offload Holland as he is contracted for another year. Personally I wouldn't mind him staying the other year provided our next head coach is a recognised backs coach (not EOS).

It's why the Smith rumour made sense to me. A backs coach proven at the highest levels coming in to work with our forwards coach for 2-3 years before Axel steps up to be head coach. Smith would oversee the backs with Holland having little input other than implementing the systems etc. With Holland gone the year after it would allow Howlett to seamlessly slot in as backs coach.

It would be a period of high turnover but, in 3-4 years time we'd have a settled ticket with Axel and Dougie calling the shots. Jobs for the boys may be, but its a great principal to promote provided they are the right men. A lot of wishful thinking on my part too.

jm08

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

There was definitely a lot of chatter on MunsterFans that we can't just offload Holland as he is contracted for another year. Personally I wouldn't mind him staying the other year provided our next head coach is a recognised backs coach (not EOS).

It's why the Smith rumour made sense to me. A backs coach proven at the highest levels coming in to work with our forwards coach for 2-3 years before Axel steps up to be head coach. Smith would oversee the backs with Holland having little input other than implementing the systems etc. With Holland gone the year after it would allow Howlett to seamlessly slot in as backs coach.

It would be a period of high turnover but, in 3-4 years time we'd have a settled ticket with Axel and Dougie calling the shots. Jobs for the boys may be, but its a great principal to promote provided they are the right men. A lot of wishful thinking on my part too.

From what I've heard about Smith he is interested in an international job and he prefers to be coaching rather than be head coach, so you could probably rule him out.

The info I posted was from the Munster website. I still think its highly unlikely that Mcgahan would get a 2 year contract and he would give Holland a 3 year one. Holland extension was given after McGahan had got his. I wouldn't believe everything id read on munsterfans

castie

Ryan out according to Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0327/1224313955233.html

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

Don't understand what you mean when you say Kidney was pushing out a lot of things that Gaffney uses.

Probably nothing more than Williams looking out for his old pal Gaffney. Didn't hear too many complaints from anyone about Gaffney leaving either Ireland or Leinster.

Gaffney is brilliant at one thing (and one thing only imo) desinging backs moves to launch off a scrum or lineout.

This disappeared completly from the Irish game after 2009, while in 2009 I'd say half of our breaks came from backs moves off the back of scrum or lineout.

Every team he has been with (except for Ireland after 2009) has been very good at launching backs moves off the back of a lineout or scrum so why would he have stopped doing it. Someone must of given orders to stop or else Gaffney decided to stop doing the only thing he knows how to do competantly as a backs coach.

Not to derail the thread my point is that a head coach can have a massive influence on an element even when there is a specialist coach.

irishbucsfan

I've heard that Wayne Smith informed Munster that he's going to be working for the RFU. It'll be announced by this time next week supposedly.

Fireball07

castie wrote: »

Ryan out according to Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0327/1224313955233.html

Shít, massive blow.

DOC and MOD, or DOC and Nagle? I suppose MOD will get the nod, might need his experience with POC out.

With Thorn and Cullen available for them, it really gives them an advantage in the 2nd row which is one place where we have tended to have the upper hand, thanks to POC.

Amazotheamazing

Fireball07 wrote: »

Shít, massive blow.

DOC and MOD, or DOC and Nagle? I suppose MOD will get the nod, might need his experience with POC out.

With Thorn and Cullen available for them, it really gives them an advantage in the 2nd row which is one place where we have tended to have the upper hand, thanks to POC.

POC has missed a lot of the leinster games over the past few years, and it's told imo. Personally, this game isn't a must win, so I'd go with Nagle and DOC.

Flincher

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Gaffney is brilliant at one thing (and one thing only imo) desinging backs moves to launch off a scrum or lineout.

This disappeared completly from the Irish game after 2009, while in 2009 I'd say half of our breaks came from backs moves off the back of scrum or lineout.

Every team he has been with (except for Ireland after 2009) has been very good at launching backs moves off the back of a lineout or scrum so why would he have stopped doing it. Someone must of given orders to stop or else Gaffney decided to stop doing the only thing he knows how to do competantly as a backs coach.

In 09, our tries from set piece moves were O'Driscoll's outside break off the lineout v France, maybe Bowe's v Wales, and the 2 variations of the same scrum move which we used 2 weeks in a row against Australia and Fiji. Even including the November tests in 08, I think Bowe scored from a scrum-move against Canada, but that was it as far as I recall.

I think it is more likely that our attack was worked out rather than orders came from above to be honest. Gaffney's refusal to employ depth has been shown up by the tries we have scored this year. I'm keeping half an eye on the Waratahs to see how he gets on with them. He has a lot of talented players at his disposal.

Amazotheamazing

Flincher wrote: »

In 09, our tries from set piece moves were O'Driscoll's outside break off the lineout v France, maybe Bowe's v Wales, and the 2 variations of the same scrum move which we used 2 weeks in a row against Australia and Fiji. Even including the November tests in 08, I think Bowe scored from a scrum-move against Canada, but that was it as far as I recall.

I think it is more likely that our attack was worked out rather than orders came from above to be honest. Gaffney's refusal to employ depth has been shown up by the tries we have scored this year. I'm keeping half an eye on the Waratahs to see how he gets on with them. He has a lot of talented players at his disposal.

He's had a lot of talented players since he went back to Leinster, and even with Saracens. Just think the game has moved on.

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

padraig.od

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He's had a lot of talented players since he went back to Leinster, and even with Saracens. Just think the game has moved on.

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

LOL that would put the cat among the pigeons!

Fireball07

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He's had a lot of talented players since he went back to Leinster, and even with Saracens. Just think the game has moved on.

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

While I do really rate Luke Fitz, unless he's willing to play in the centre (as a 12), I'd nearly say no. I think we should be aiming to develop our own young wingers like LOD and Zebo as much as possible. I think they both have a lot of potential.

Flincher

I rate Fitz highly, but no.

It'd feel durty.

We have our own lads coming through. We should use them

Fireball07

Flincher wrote: »

I rate Fitz highly, but no.

It'd feel durty.

We have our own lads coming through. We should use them

Yeah if we're robbing Leinster players, I'd take Healy, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton, Nacewa :P

I would have taken Ruddock but tbh, people like DOC2, TOD, POM and Butler are very promising themselves.

We haven't had an awful lot of players coming through recently- now that we are finally getting some players that look good enough, we should try to bring them on as much as possible while they're young- unlike the Ryan and Coughlan situations.

Amazotheamazing

Fireball07 wrote: »

While I do really rate Luke Fitz, unless he's willing to play in the centre (as a 12), I'd nearly say no. I think we should be aiming to develop our own young wingers like LOD and Zebo as much as possible. I think they both have a lot of potential.

Sign him as a 12 and we'd be away in a hack.

Hyperbullet

Being reported now that Stringer has signed a one year contract extension. Not sure how to feel about that, not a bad back up to have on the bench I guess.

Fireball07

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Being reported now that Stringer has signed a one year contract extension. Not sure how to feel about that, not a bad back up to have on the bench I guess.

Definitely good because TOL is going. Don't have faith in Williams and I don't know how good Sheridan is.

Hyperbullet

Fireball07 wrote: »

Definitely good because TOL is going. Don't have faith in Williams and I don't know how good Sheridan is.

No faith in Williams either, so I agree it's good for now. I'm just wondering what the long term plan is, give Williams one more year to prove his worth or sign someone at the end of next season?

Fireball07

Hyperbullet wrote: »

No faith in Williams either, so I agree it's good for now. I'm just wondering what the long term plan is, give Williams one more year to prove his worth or sign someone at the end of next season?

Yeah maybe Williams deserves more time. Hopefully Sheridan can step up. If we really have to, we could sign a NIQ as cover next season. Hopefully it won't be needed though.

buck65

Jaysus I'd take Luke Fitz any day, lad like that you would find a place for him.

Fireball07

buck65 wrote: »

Jaysus I'd take Luke Fitz any day, lad like that you would find a place for him.

I suppose :P

It is a bit unrealistic though

jm08

Fireball07 wrote: »

While I do really rate Luke Fitz, unless he's willing to play in the centre (as a 12), I'd nearly say no. I think we should be aiming to develop our own young wingers like LOD and Zebo as much as possible. I think they both have a lot of potential.

Luke Fitz started his rugby career in Cork Con. Played there until the family moved back to Dublin when he was 12/13. also nearly signed a contract with munster when leinster were not going to give him a contract when he left school.

Hed be a fantastic addition to Munster.

Amazotheamazing

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Being reported now that Stringer has signed a one year contract extension. Not sure how to feel about that, not a bad back up to have on the bench I guess.

It's not great imo, he's not the player he was.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's not great imo, he's not the player he was.

He is still essential to have around the squad because of TOL's departure, but he is not the player he once was.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

Wait your turn Leinster haven't been allowed negotiate with him yet so wait in line:D

Amazotheamazing

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He is still essential to have around the squad because of TOL's departure, but he is not the player he once was.

I'd still rather Williams ahead of Stringer now, I genuinely think he's now poorer than people are recognising.