Student Union Christmas Exam Referendum

electrogrimey

Do dodge the usual shit that goes on in this forum when it comes to student politics, I'm very in favour of Christmas exams. Semesterisation doesn't work without them. I would assume that there will be an overwhelming yes vote.

underthetides

Christmas exams ftw. This year, I took a module from Sept-Dec and since then have not been in contact with any of that module's lecturers or done any work regarding that course. And yet, I, and everyone else in my position, is expected to do as well in this module as in the modules which ran from January-April; the modules which are fresh in our minds and the material with which we have been consistently engaging with for months. Argh.

Denerick

I don't understand the drama involved here. I suspect those who complain need to take a chill pill or two. Either that or drop a dove. This is a very exaggerated problem.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Denerick wrote: »

I don't understand the drama involved here. I suspect those who complain need to take a chill pill or two. Either that or drop a dove. This is a very exaggerated problem.

Well no it's not. Some people have a LOT of exams as a result of not having Christmas exams.

I know one person, for example, who has 12 exams. This is simply too much (and he is a first year too).

I have been told of another person who has 14, however I haven't confirmed this with the actual person so I don't know how true it is, but it wouldn't surprise me. But having that number of exams is quite ridiculous imo.

Also due to not having Christmas exams, I don't get a study week. I know people in all the major Colleges in Ireland (DIT, UCD, UCC, NUIM, etc.) and I am the only one who failed to have a study week. In my opinion this is ridiculous. The study week is very important, or is for me at least, as it (would've) enabled me to catch up in certain subjects and generally get re-organised.

TCD is supposed to be the best Uni in Ireland and one of the best in the world yet it is badly run (in terms of the structure of the year). I understand that this is the first year semestarisation was implemented, so maybe these are just teething problems, but it better be sorted out for next year. In my opinion it is not a problem that is difficult to fix. We just have to be brought back in maybe 2 weeks earlier, simple as.

Denerick

Yes, TCD IS the best university in Ireland. The new exam structure will seperate the men from the boys. If you cannot hack it, please join one of the inferior educational institutions. I'll never understand this spoiled Celtic Tiger perception that 'life is supposed to be easy'.

Tarka

I've 11 anyway, 6 of which are in courses which have been finished since Christmas. Examining the subjects once they're finished being taught is just common sense.
It'd certainly lead to an increase in test scores if they were done in two chunks instead of bottleknecking them all in at the end.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Denerick wrote: »

Yes, TCD IS the best university in Ireland. The new exam structure will seperate the men from the boys. If you cannot hack it, please join one of the inferior educational institutions. I'll never understand this spoiled Celtic Tiger perception that 'life is supposed to be easy'.

When did I ever say life was supposed to be easy. I do Russian.I didn't expect it to be easy, quite the opposite. I didn't chose to do Business because I thought it would be a doss and I would have to do **** all.

There is a difference between common sense and and simply making things easier. It is common sense to have Christmas exams for subjects that are taught up to then.

Denerick

DanDan6592 wrote: »

When did I ever say life was supposed to be easy. I do Russian.I didn't expect it to be easy, quite the opposite. I didn't chose to do Business because I thought it would be a doss and I would have to do **** all.

There is a difference between common sense and and simply making things easier. It is common sense to have Christmas exams for subjects that are taught up to then.

You should have thought of that before you decided to study Russian.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Denerick wrote: »

You should have thought of that before you decided to study Russian.

Thought of what?

I knew Business with Russian would be hard but I was attracted to the challenge of the course amongst other things.

electrogrimey

Denerick wrote: »

Yes, TCD IS the best university in Ireland. The new exam structure will seperate the men from the boys. If you cannot hack it, please join one of the inferior educational institutions. I'll never understand this spoiled Celtic Tiger perception that 'life is supposed to be easy'.

Denerick wrote: »

I don't understand the drama involved here. I suspect those who complain need to take a chill pill or two. Either that or drop a dove. This is a very exaggerated problem.

Denerick wrote: »

You should have thought of that before you decided to study Russian.

I don't get it...You're arguing against something that would benefit you greatly, just for the sake of lame trolling. I can't think of one downside to Christmas exams, and apparently neither can you, so you're just making bad jokes just to keep up your reputation of an annoying troll. Kudos.

Fo Real

Tarka wrote: »

I've 11 anyway, 6 of which are in courses which have been finished since Christmas. Examining the subjects once they're finished being taught is just common sense.
It'd certainly lead to an increase in test scores if they were done in two chunks instead of bottleknecking them all in at the end.

Why? So you can "forget" the knowledge as soon as possible? This is symptomatic of the new Celtic Tiger breed of student. They learned essays off by heart for the Leaving Cert in grind schools and when they gained entry into Trinity, they thought they could apply the same tactic. And now they're whinging on an online forum when they realise it doesn't work like that :rolleyes:

Don't you realise that if you truly learn and understand something it doesn't matter whether you are tested on it next week or in 6 months time. Employers are constantly complaining that students are graduating without the sufficient knowledge or skills for the workplace. Everything these students rote-learned in college went in one ear and out the next. They graduate as stupid as when they came in.

This is why I'll be voting no to Christmas exams. It will cut off all the fat and reinvigorate the college, leaving behind only those students of actual intelligence worthy of Trinity.

Denerick

electrogrimey wrote: »

I don't get it...You're arguing against something that would benefit you greatly, just for the sake of lame trolling. I can't think of one downside to Christmas exams, and apparently neither can you, so you're just making bad jokes just to keep up your reputation of an annoying troll. Kudos.

Because I'm not a welfare junkie who relies on some nanny institution to save his ass all the time. Because I believe in personal responsibility.

lucernarian

Just looking at it objectively, what are the negative consequences of Christmas exams? Is there a credible basis behind thinking that degree quality is compromised by examining material at the end of the relevant semester rather than examining everything at the end of the year?

By the way, I've seen threads on Boards which have their fair share of people with chips on their shoulders and egos and all the rest of it, but any topic of trinity's SU seems to enter a league of its own. And seeing as it's the Internet, I will never understand the "serious business" attitude that people carry on to it. Give the rants a rest?

antiselfdual

I'm looking forward to people trying to study for both Schols and Christmas exams, with the library refusing to open over Christmas and it snowing loads so that college postpones exams at the last minute again...

Out of interest what is meant to happen regarding supplementals if you fail a Christmas exam?

Mark200

antiselfdual wrote: »

Out of interest what is meant to happen regarding supplementals if you fail a Christmas exam?

In UCD, if you fail a Christmas exam you can do a repeat around the time of your Summer exams I think.

devinejay

I thought there was generally three exam periods, Christmas, Summer and Supplemental. The supplementals would be on around August, and if you failed either Christmas or summer exams, you'd repeat them then.

electrogrimey

Fo Real wrote: »

Why? So you can "forget" the knowledge as soon as possible? This is symptomatic of the new Celtic Tiger breed of student. They learned essays off by heart for the Leaving Cert in grind schools and when they gained entry into Trinity, they thought they could apply the same tactic. And now they're whinging on an online forum when they realise it doesn't work like that :rolleyes:

Don't you realise that if you truly learn and understand something it doesn't matter whether you are tested on it next week or in 6 months time. Employers are constantly complaining that students are graduating without the sufficient knowledge or skills for the workplace. Everything these students rote-learned in college went in one ear and out the next. They graduate as stupid as when they came in.

This is why I'll be voting no to Christmas exams. It will cut off all the fat and reinvigorate the college, leaving behind only those students of actual intelligence worthy of Trinity.

This is all nonsense. Last minute cramming for 12 exams doesn't build intelligence. It brings a college education down to the level of the leaving cert. When it comes to examining intelligence, continuous assessment > annual exams, and semesterised examination is a lot closer to continuous assessment than what we have now. The expected level of exam essays would be a lot higher if we had Christmas exams, because students can't be expected to be writing high quality essays if they have to cram for 30 odd essays, some of which they hadn't studied for months. You trolls are getting annoying.

Denerick

It is extremely dishonest to accuse us of trolling, just because we disagree with your nanny state, delegation of personal responsibility views.

If you had any sense of personal honour, you'd apologise to both me and Foreal instantaneously.

Fo Real

electrogrimey wrote: »

This is all nonsense. Last minute cramming for 12 exams doesn't build intelligence. It brings a college education down to the level of the leaving cert. When it comes to examining intelligence, continuous assessment > annual exams, and semesterised examination is a lot closer to continuous assessment than what we have now. The expected level of exam essays would be a lot higher if we had Christmas exams, because students can't be expected to be writing high quality essays if they have to cram for 30 odd essays, some of which they hadn't studied for months. You trolls are getting annoying.

Wow. You have completely missed my point. Let me simplify it with clear examples for you: I understand basic maths like addition and subtraction. Although it was first taught to me about 15 years ago, you can give me an exam on it tomorrow because I took the time to truly learn and understand it. There was no "cramming" or rote-learning involved.

In Trinity however, we have whingers like you crying because you are being examined on material taught to you last semester. There should be no danger of you "forgetting" the material if you truly learned it in the first place. I did a module on human evolution in first year. You can give me an essay on the topic today and I'll ace it. Some of you are not fit for Trinity it seems. UCD maybe, but not Trinity.

antiselfdual

electrogrimey wrote: »

Last minute cramming for 12 exams doesn't build intelligence.

But last minute cramming for 6 exams twice does? I mean it's not fair to use "oh but we won't have studied that course for months" as an argument against summer exams. It's not like you don't know you have to do an exam in it eventually and can't possibly study something from the first term during the second. Also if you're last minute cramming it's not because the exam structure is unfair, it's because you haven't planned out how to prepare for your exams properly (which is arguably the only thing exams have ever taught me).

Are most people's degrees in Trinity broken down into independent courses which only run for one term (or less) actually? I'm wondering if the actual number of exams people have to take has gone up because of courses that were previously examined together on one paper splitting into two this year... For courses that didn't previously have Christmas exams I can't see how the workload is any greater this year (apart from the layout of the terms making people, or at least me, think they have more time to study than they really do, which is my main problem with semesterisation...)

devinejay

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Just looking at it objectively, what are the negative consequences of Christmas exams? Is there a credible basis behind thinking that degree quality is compromised by examining material at the end of the relevant semester rather than examining everything at the end of the year?

By the way, I've seen threads on Boards which have their fair share of people with chips on their shoulders and egos and all the rest of it, but any topic of trinity's SU seems to enter a league of its own. And seeing as it's the Internet, I will never understand the "serious business" attitude that people carry on to it. Give the rants a rest?

Yeah, because of the trusty ignore list, SU threads have been reduced to assorted fragments of pointless debate, and are now unreadable (although one could argue they were always unreadable)

Tarka

Fo Real wrote: »

Why? So you can "forget" the knowledge as soon as possible? This is symptomatic of the new Celtic Tiger breed of student. They learned essays off by heart for the Leaving Cert in grind schools and when they gained entry into Trinity, they thought they could apply the same tactic. And now they're whinging on an online forum when they realise it doesn't work like that :rolleyes:

Don't you realise that if you truly learn and understand something it doesn't matter whether you are tested on it next week or in 6 months time. Employers are constantly complaining that students are graduating without the sufficient knowledge or skills for the workplace. Everything these students rote-learned in college went in one ear and out the next. They graduate as stupid as when they came in.

This is why I'll be voting no to Christmas exams. It will cut off all the fat and reinvigorate the college, leaving behind only those students of actual intelligence worthy of Trinity.

Hmm. Why the confrontational tone?

I'll argue this one against you from where I'm looking at things at least, in Computer Science you can't just learn off "essays" of stuff you don't understand and regurgitate it later. If you pass an exam, it's because you went in understanding it. Still gotta remember it all though, and we've not had enough of a chance to go back over all that stuff and get it fresh in our minds again because we're still getting assignments and gaining an understanding of what's going on in our current courses.

Also, addition is a silly example. I'm sure you understood sequence & series and differential calculus and such back in LC maths but would it be fair to say you'd need some time to need some time to get to grips with it all again if you had an exam in it in 3 weeks?

Roflcoptor at Celtic Tiger students, btw.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Tarka wrote: »

Hmm. Why the confrontational tone?

I'll argue this one against you from where I'm looking at things at least, in Computer Science you can't just learn off "essays" of stuff you don't understand and regurgitate it later. If you pass an exam, it's because you went in understanding it. Still gotta remember it all though, and we've not had enough of a chance to go back over all that stuff and get it fresh in our minds again because we're still getting assignments and gaining an understanding of what's going on in our current courses.

Also, addition is a silly example. I'm sure you understood sequence & series and differential calculus and such back in LC maths but would it be fair to say you'd need some time to need some time to get to grips with it all again if you had an exam in it in 3 weeks?

Roflcoptor at Celtic Tiger students, btw.

Exactly. This is the reason we get 2 weeks off before the Summer exams. To refresh ourselves on what we have done over the whole year (though should be the semester!!). However to adequately go over certain subjects takes time and wen you have 9 or 10 or 13 subjects to go over, well you don't have adequate time. Hence why we need Christmas exams.

Denerick

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Exactly. This is the reason we get 2 weeks off before the Summer exams. To refresh ourselves on what we have done over the whole year (though should be the semester!!). However to adequately go over certain subjects takes time and wen you have 9 or 10 or 13 subjects to go over, well you don't have adequate time. Hence why we need Christmas exams.

Its called Darwinism. If you can't cope with the workload, you'll fail your exams and drop out. If you can, you'll become a succesful student and an asset to our nation. Stop looking for Nanny Smith to come help you out.

Jammyc

Denerick wrote: »

Its called Darwinism. If you can't cope with the workload, you'll fail your exams and drop out. If you can, you'll become a succesful student and an asset to our nation. Stop looking for Nanny Smith to come help you out.

Seriously, you're just being rude at this point.

evercloserunion

I will vote against it and certainly hope it is not introduced, at least not across the board. I tend to prefer a structure which gives students the maximum freedom to organise their affairs and achieve their academic targets their own way. Particularly when students are choosing modules to study, they should be able to choose the ones they want to study, even if that means an imbalance in credits between semesters. If exams are all at the end of the year, for example, then it would be possible to choose a heavier subject-load in the first semester and defer part of your workload from that semester to the second semester. That might not be the best course of action for everybody but if there are certain subjects you really want, or may even be required, to study, then it could be better than the alternative which is picking subjects you don't need or like and studying them purely because you have to make up the credits for each semester. If we had Xmas exams, you would effectively have to split your credits down the middle or be slaughtered in the Xmas exams because you've taken on more than you can chew in such a short space of time. Now I know that splitting your credits evenly is recommended and, in law at least, largely compulsory but I don't think that is a good or sensible position. I do think students should have the choice. That's why I'll be voting no and I'd also like to see restrictions on how you allocate your credits per semester removed.

p1akuw47h5r3it

evercloserunion wrote: »

I will vote against it and certainly hope it is not introduced, at least not across the board. I tend to prefer a structure which gives students the maximum freedom to organise their affairs and achieve their academic targets their own way. Particularly when students are choosing modules to study, they should be able to choose the ones they want to study, even if that means an imbalance in credits between semesters. If exams are all at the end of the year, for example, then it would be possible to choose a heavier subject-load in the first semester and defer part of your workload from that semester to the second semester. That might not be the best course of action for everybody but if there are certain subjects you really want, or may even be required, to study, then it could be better than the alternative which is picking subjects you don't need or like and studying them purely because you have to make up the credits for each semester. If we had Xmas exams, you would effectively have to split your credits down the middle or be slaughtered in the Xmas exams because you've taken on more than you can chew in such a short space of time. Now I know that splitting your credits evenly is recommended and, in law at least, largely compulsory but I don't think that is a good or sensible position. I do think students should have the choice. That's why I'll be voting no and I'd also like to see restrictions on how you allocate your credits per semester removed.

I certainly can't pick which semester I have a "heavier load" in. I take the same amount of credits each semester. So ur point makes no sense to me.

Craguls

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I certainly can't pick which semester I have a "heavier load" in. I take the same amount of credits each semester. So ur point makes no sense to me.

Some courses (SF Science, Law) allow you to split your credits 40/20.

lucernarian

Craguls wrote: »

Some courses (SF Science, Law) allow you to split your credits 40/20.

Indeed.

And in SF science, all the exams take place in 3 weeks anyway. Ignoring the insignificant MCQs in some subjects before this point in time. So I would feel that taking on 60 credits at once in a session of exams is more daunting than taking on 40 credits at once.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Craguls wrote: »

Some courses (SF Science, Law) allow you to split your credits 40/20.

WEEEELLL....aren't you just GREAT Craguls :)