Who is in the right here

cormie

I'm just hopefully assuming he analysed the road before proceeding with the overtake manoeuvre even if he couldn't fully see the road while travelling in a uniformed line before the beginning of the overtake. There would have been plenty of time to pull back in to the same spot if it wasn't safe to continue with the manoeuvre once it was started.

Tipp Man

Was the car in front of black car going slow because he had seen green car give a signal??

Something about this is fishy. I fail to see how black car couldn't see that green car was giving a signal, surely as soon as black car pulled out he would have seen the green car signal and aborted the overtake??

cormie

betafrog wrote: »

You stated that all junctions are sign posted. I have rarely seen anymore than 20% of junctions sign posted properly in the countryside

Ah, well in an ideal world anyway

cormie

Tipp Man wrote: »

Was the car in front of black car going slow because he had seen green car give a signal??

Something about this is fishy. I fail to see how black car couldn't see that green car was giving a signal, surely as soon as black car pulled out he would have seen the green car signal and aborted the overtake??

I got the impression they were going slow for a while. Perhaps the green car was going slow looking for the correct turn they had to take though. This should have been somewhat obvious as they would in general slow before every turn giving the impression to definitely not overtake if there's a turn coming

stimpson

cormie wrote: »

I'm just hopefully assuming he analysed the road before proceeding with the overtake manoeuvre even if he couldn't fully see the road while travelling in a uniformed line before the beginning of the overtake. There would have been plenty of time to pull back in to the same spot if it wasn't safe to continue with the manoeuvre once it was started.

I'm assuming he hadn't as he said he couldn't see the green car until he was overtaking. I've often driven over the white line before overtaking to get a good look at the road ahead and unless I'm 100% sure it's safe to do so I'd quickly pull back in.

The Nutty M

Frag ....Can you name the place where it happened and the direction being travelled?

jameshayes

ianobrien wrote: »

The black car is 100% right. The green car changed lanes without looking, despite the black car travelling the wrong direction in the lane. The black car had possession of the right hand lane at the time of the accident.

The exact situation happened to a member of my family a good few years ago, and the samily member was driving the black car. She won her case 100%. The exact case number I don't have to hand.

Indication does not give you the right of way. When crossing any white line, look both ways.

jameshayes wrote: »

I'd say the person in the green car is in the wrong, you should never change lane position without checking your mirrors, it could have been the case that a motorcyclist was overtaking you within the white line and the green car could have killed him rather than denting the black car. Check yer mirrors greeny

Bang on!

stimpson

From: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a19~


Overtaking

19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

ianobrien

ianobrien wrote: »

The black car is 100% right. .

Whatever about saying the green car is 100% wrong.

Saying that the black car, having overtaken approaching a junction, is 100% right. Is wrong. Overtaking on approaching a junction is wrong.

stimpson

stimpson wrote: »

From: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a19~


Overtaking

19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

Also

(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—

(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and

(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

The driver of the black car could not clearly see the road ahead as he was "boxed in"

(8) A driver approaching a road junction and intending to turn right at the junction shall yield the right of way to a vehicle approaching on the same road from the opposite direction and intending to proceed straight through the junction.

It does not state that it should yield to overtaking traffic.
The OP did not state that the uncoloured car changed lanes, he stated that he left the major road to enter the minor road.

stimpson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHPSwfEWhWI

Tea 1000

frag420 wrote: »

the black car was overtaking the car directly in front of him. was not aware of any other vehicles in front of that car as he was boxed in. the car in front was going dog slow and the large alcohol(oh the irony) delivery truck that was about a meter from black cars bumper(i kid you not) was right on black cars ass so black car felt it safer to overtake car on front.

Black car did not see a junction sign. there may have been one but die to the fact he was boxed in tightly he may have not noticed it.

Would have mentioned being boxed in earlier but did not think it mattered much but maybe it does as it may have affected driver of black cars ability to concentrate on road signs??

so to clarify the driver did not see any junction sign

fraG

So the black car was boxed in and couldn't see what was ahead of the car in front of him? Therefore he was driving dangerously. The only way he could have been boxed in is if he was driving too close to the car in front and the truck behind was driving too close to him. In that case what he should have done was ease back the gap to the car in front of him from the recommended 2 seconds to 4 seconds, thus creating an increased safety zone in front, 2 seconds to slow the truck behind down, 2 to slow him down in an emergency.
But it seems what happened in reality was that he was on the hole of the car in front, the truck was up his hole, so he took a notion and over took all in order to make himself happy, not realising that a car up ahead was intending to turn right. A car he would have seen had he left a 4 second gap to the car in front of him.
If you can't see what's ahead, you can't overtake, simple as that. Boxed in is no excuse.
The green car should have checked his mirrors, but the black car seemed more concerned about the truck and getting out of his "box" than observing the behaviour of the cars ahead of him.

cormie

stimpson wrote: »

I'm assuming he hadn't as he said he couldn't see the green car until he was overtaking. I've often driven over the white line before overtaking to get a good look at the road ahead and unless I'm 100% sure it's safe to do so I'd quickly pull back in.

This is good practice alright providing you've enough time to pull back in of course It's especially handy to have a Sat Nav if you don't know the road, you can see when there's a long straight approaching and can prepare for the possibility to overtake.

mickdw

I commented earlier when I assumed the road had a hatched section between the driving lanes. It now seems it was on a broken white line.

If that is the case, & if the dotted line continued along the straight without any warning of a side road & if the side road was not sign posted earlier for the Black car to see, then the black car driver does come across as being so careless as it appeared, however, it still sounds dodgy for the following reasons:

If turning car was crawling along there should be no need for any major speed while overtaking and so there should be a strong possibility of avoiding the accident by stopping etc even if little indication given by turning driver.
If the turning car wasnt going quite so slow, he would have had to be braking for a distance before the junction & this should have given the black car time to realise what was happening & to avoid the accident. Therefore in imo it is still the black cars fault.

slimjimmc

frag420 wrote: »

black felt uncomfortable being boxed in so tightly hence wanting to overtake. And because he was boxed in he did not have a clear view of the lane in front of him but had a clear view of the oppostie lane and it was clear.

There's more to overtaking than a clear view of the opposite lane, you need to be absolutely certain you can safely return to your own side without putting others at risk.
Never assume the road ahead is clear unless you can see it with your own eyes.

And BTW he wasn't boxed in against his will, he is in control of his own car and allowed himself to be boxed in by driving too close to the car in front (tailgating). The correct action he should have taken considering he couldn't see the traffic ahead was to slow down gently to give himself time to properly assess the situation.

cormie wrote: »

I think it is on a motorway however

Actually it is not illegal to drive slowly even on a motorway. The requirement for a motorway is that your vehicle must be capable of reaching 50km/h and the law doesn't stipulate that driving slower than that is an offence.