The Breast Feeding Support Thread

How Strange

I think mothers guilt is something we acquire in delivery and it stays with is forever. However, no mum should feel guilty or feel like they have failed because breastfeeding didn't work for them. The support for breastfeeding mothers after birth and especially after you leave the hospital is appalling and the HSE should be ashamed of itself. It is also more than a little ironic because the awful 'breast is best' is hammered into every woman during pregnancy.

Breastfeeding, like all areas of child nurturing, was the domain of women until 19th century when (male) doctors thought that they knew better and child feeding became medicalised. They thought women could not be trusted to feed their own babies and thus began the decline of breastfeeding and the inevitable introduction of a baby milk substitute or formula.

The breastfeeding culture was all but wiped out in this country except for a few lefties or hippies. I think it's fair to say that four or five generations of Irish children have been exclusively fed formula many of whom have to be the gps, phns etc we meet today.

The formula culture is so entrenched in this country that phns and gps don't believe in growth spurts or sleep regressions; things which every baby goes through at more or less the same age. Mothers will be told 'look at me, it did me no harm' when they insist they want to continue breastfeeding. You'll be scare mongered and lied to so that you comply with the phn or gp just so they can tick a box. We've been told there are health risks with formula but if an entire nation has been formula fed then how can we identify what illnesses etc are attributed to formula. They just become normal.

Also in a nation of formula fed children breastffeeding is unusual and odd so the media will always want to go for the sensational stories of the 10 year old still being breastfed. They don't want to show the intimacy and closeness that a mother and baby enjoy. That doesn't sell newspapers or increase ratings.

That's why threads like this are important because it has to be about women/mothers helping each other and passing on our knowledge to ensure even more mums breastfeed to whatever stage they want to. It could be 3 days, 3 months or 3 years. Every feed counts!

I know a few friends who tried breastfeeding after seeing me do it and I'm a very unlikely breastfeed we. I considered it because my husbands family talked about it as did a couple of friends. So bit by bit, if women support each other and encourage more new mums to give it a try it will become more normal in this country.

Sorry for the long post eek!

annamcmahon

If anyone wants a simplified version of the WHO weight charts for breastfed babies let me know and I can PM them to you. The ones the PHNs use are normally for formulafed babies who generally weigh more so you can be told your breastfed baby is at a lower percentile than they actually are.

ck83

annamcmahon wrote: »

If anyone wants a simplified version of the WHO weight charts for breastfed babies let me know and I can PM them to you. The ones the PHNs use are normally for formulafed babies who generally weigh more so you can be told your breastfed baby is at a lower percentile than they actually are.

I'd like them please Anna. I've no concerns, I'm curious though!

dublinlady

annamcmahon wrote: »

If anyone wants a simplified version of the WHO weight charts for breastfed babies let me know and I can PM them to you. The ones the PHNs use are normally for formulafed babies who generally weigh more so you can be told your breastfed baby is at a lower percentile than they actually are.

I'd love it if ya don't mind!

Is it true that breastfeed babies are leaner than formula fed?
I imagined my baby would be rolls of fat...!! She's doing great and I'm not worried as she's getting bigger all the time but her arms and legs are quite lean!

She's 7 weeks now and giving more smiles and personality every day! It's like it's suddenly become so much more rewarding as she's starting to interact with us!
She did a big fart yesterday and I started laughing - she saw me laughing and started smiling - fabulous..... Husband thinks I'm encouraging her farting! Hehe!

wmpdd3

Yeah its the who charts my sister in law gave me. They are only slightly less but the seem to take into account groth spurts.

NextSteps

Quirkygirl wrote: »

Hi folks not sure if this is the right place for this, but Im on maternity leave with 2nd baby and breastfed exclusive for 3and 1/2 months and fed daughter for 5 months. I'm sad now that I didn't have a thread like this for support I felt v isolated and things were hard. I felt under constant pressure and scrutiny from people to put baby on bottle. If I mentioned any problem with baby or me to anyone the breastfeeding was blamed. I went to phn for 3 month check up and she said his weight was under the average and she really scared me. She told me to go home and give him formula. I did this. And cried a lot. I'm crying as I write this now. I was devastated having to stop but I was tortured with guilt that he was hungry as he was a bit whingy and crying at times. But on reflection I think he was going through a growth spurt. And I think phn could have supported me better. This morning I watched Ireland am. They are doing bump to baby and had some mums on talking aboutfeeding. I don't know if anyone saw it but i felt it was v negative about feeding. The gp that was talking I felt was basically negative. She mentioned the positives but said that a lot of women have done their bit for 9 months carrying baby and then giving birth and its enough. For me it's this attitude that's caused us to lose a generation of breastfeeders. I hope to have more children and I hope and pray that I'll be able to feed longer than I did with my little darling son. It was a difficult but really beautiful time in my life. More tears. Night night girls

That's rotten that you were bullied out of breastfeeding. Stories like that make me so angry. Is it any wonder our breastfeeding rates are so low?

annamcmahon

There you go. What I like about this version is it's an excel type chart rather than a graph.

Quirkygirl

Thanks ck83, It is a toughy and I am proud that I fed for the few months I did.

ck83 wrote: »

Quirkygirl wrote: »

Hi folks not sure if this is the right place for this, but Im on maternity leave with 2nd baby and breastfed exclusive for 3and 1/2 months and fed daughter for 5 months. I'm sad now that I didn't have a thread like this for support I felt v isolated and things were hard. I felt under constant pressure and scrutiny from people to put baby on bottle. If I mentioned any problem with baby or me to anyone the breastfeeding was blamed. I went to phn for 3 month check up and she said his weight was under the average and she really scared me. She told me to go home and give him formula. I did this. And cried a lot. I'm crying as I write this now. I was devastated having to stop but I was tortured with guilt that he was hungry as he was a bit whingy and crying at times. But on reflection I think he was going through a growth spurt. And I think phn could have supported me better. This morning I watched Ireland am. They are doing bump to baby and had some mums on talking aboutfeeding. I don't know if anyone saw it but i felt it was v negative about feeding. The gp that was talking I felt was basically negative. She mentioned the positives but said that a lot of women have done their bit for 9 months carrying baby and then giving birth and its enough. For me it's this attitude that's caused us to lose a generation of breastfeeders. I hope to have more children and I hope and pray that I'll be able to feed longer than I did with my little darling son. It was a difficult but really beautiful time in my life. More tears. Night night girls

Hi quirky girl.
Firstly don't you dare feel guilty, or be upset. You gave your babies such a good start in life by breastfeeding.
The attitude of health professionals, and indeed society in this country is a huge problem. It makes me so angry, especially when I hear stories like yours. Colm Hayes did a slot on breastfeeding on 2fm a couple of weeks ago, and I felt he was very negative too.
I believe that every mother to be who wants to b/feed should be put in touch with a lactation consultant before giving birth, so they can get some info, and have a contact point for the early weeks/months when b/feeding.
Theres a reason this country has the lowest b/feeding rate in Europe, and poor support is it, as far as I'm concerned. I do think though, that by feeding your babies for as long as you did, youll have helped to demonstrate to friends and family how good a thing it is to do. I know that a few of my friends have said they'd never have thought about doing it, but having seen me (I'm the first in my circle to have a baby), they'll def give it a try. And you will have your experiences to help them learn from

ck83

dublinlady wrote: »

I'd love it if ya don't mind!

Is it true that breastfeed babies are leaner than formula fed?
I imagined my baby would be rolls of fat...!! She's doing great and I'm not worried as she's getting bigger all the time but her arms and legs are quite lean!

She's 7 weeks now and giving more smiles and personality every day! It's like it's suddenly become so much more rewarding as she's starting to interact with us!
She did a big fart yesterday and I started laughing - she saw me laughing and started smiling - fabulous..... Husband thinks I'm encouraging her farting! Hehe!

They're definitely leaner... think a baby who's breastfed for 3 months is less likely to be overweight until they're a toddler, and one who's on the boob for 6 months is less likely to be Overweight/obese into their teens.... my little dude is 5mths, and he hasn't a pick on him.... don't get me wrong.... i'm not watching his weight, and he's gaining well, but he's def very lean... my mam met my neighbour out with his baby, who's about a month younger the other day, and came home and announced that she's "a ball of fat", and "obviously fed to the gills". B/fed babies have such a remarkable ability to know how much they need.... i figure i'm giving him the foundations for portion control knowledge!!!

dublinlady

ck83 wrote: »

dublinlady wrote: »

I'd love it if ya don't mind!

Is it true that breastfeed babies are leaner than formula fed?
I imagined my baby would be rolls of fat...!! She's doing great and I'm not worried as she's getting bigger all the time but her arms and legs are quite lean!

She's 7 weeks now and giving more smiles and personality every day! It's like it's suddenly become so much more rewarding as she's starting to interact with us!
She did a big fart yesterday and I started laughing - she saw me laughing and started smiling - fabulous..... Husband thinks I'm encouraging her farting! Hehe!

They're definitely leaner... think a baby who's breastfed for 3 months is less likely to be overweight until they're a toddler, and one who's on the boob for 6 months is less likely to be Overweight/obese into their teens.... my little dude is 5mths, and he hasn't a pick on him.... don't get me wrong.... i'm not watching his weight, and he's gaining well, but he's def very lean... my mam met my neighbour out with his baby, who's about a month younger the other day, and came home and announced that she's "a ball of fat", and "obviously fed to the gills". B/fed babies have such a remarkable ability to know how much they need.... i figure i'm giving him the foundations for portion control knowledge!!!

My madam doesn't seem to be gettin the concept of portion control...!!
For example:
1.02 - 18 min feed
1.32 - 9 min feed
1.56 - 12 min feed
This was this afternoon - shes doing that alot lately and I'm getting confused as to when to consider the start of the last feed... As in I don't know whether to say 1 - in which case she'd be waking any minute, or 1.56 in which case I'd have half an hr or hr to start my thankyou cards!!! She did this every feed yesterday and today and I think is getting overtired as a result as I can't stop her screaming alot of the time! Popped her in the pram at 2.15 roaring and went for a long walk and luckily shes been sleeping since! Hopefully she'll wake up happier! She still manages the odd smile between roars...!
Problem last night was that she kept this feed pattern up for 3 hrs straight and eventually my boobs were so sore and empty I gave her 2&1/2 oz expressed milk from a bottle and managed then to put her down where she slept thru from 11 til 3!
Possible growth spurt or the start of a bad snacking habit? I dont know! She does seem bigger these last 2 days tho!! And while she's 7 weeks, she was a week early due to section so maybe this is her "6 week growth spurt"?
I don't mind as my only job is to feed and look after her - not like I have anything else urgent to do! The thankyou cards can keep gathering dust!!
I'm also trying to get her used to sleeping in the pram during day as I think she is getting a little too dependant on the sling!! She won't settle on her own at all now! Maybe a short walk in the pram every time I want her to settle would be a good idea for a while then hopefully she'll get used to it!

I can't believe public health nurses are discouraging breast feeding! That's so bad! Have to say the ones in my clinic have been very supportive - any time I go I get alot of well done's and encouragement! Sometimes I half expect then to give me a gold star and a lollipop!!!

I had decided before she was born that I'd stop at 3 months... Don't know why really just had it in my head. Now I think I'll just keep going until it no longer suits me.
I'm going on hols in may tho and want to have a few glasses of wine some evenings as my patents are with me and my husband and feel I deserve a few nights 'off'! I can never express more than one bottle a day - so think I will give her formula at 11pm and then pump and dump to maintain my supply, and then give her expressed at 3/4 amand then feed her myself at 6/7 am. I'm hoping when I return I will be able to resume the 11pm feed myself and drop the formUla again. She will be 12 weeks then.
I know it's selfish but I do like a few glasses of wine and it will have been over a year at that stage!!!

Sorry... Ended up rambling quite slot there!!

fitzcoff

annamcmahon wrote: »

There you go. What I like about this version is it's an excel type chart rather than a graph.

Would I right in saying that the number under the percentile is the weight in KGs ?

I breastfeed my last 2 and I am planning on doing the same for this one come June. My first was a right buster and was chubby out even with feeding (feed for 8 mths) , my second was a tiny little thing , he was only feed for 6 months.

It's good to have a copy of the list so that I will know how I am going.

galah

something weird has happended in the last 2 days, just after I wrote that I'll just keep using the nipple shields - Mr. E doesn't want them anymore, and is latching on and feeding fine without them!!!!!!! I could not believe it! :eek: That's almost 19 weeks with the shields, and now he decides he's grand without them. Weirdo kid, but happy mammy - less faffing!

On bfeeding in general - I must say, fair play for people sticking with it despite everything - the bad press, the lack of support from family and health professionals etc - I really, really wanted to breastfeed, and was absolutely adamant to make it work - and I had the support from (mostly foreign) friends and my husband - but without all that, I would have given up a long time ago. Bfeeding can be really tough and difficult, and I honestly say, if the support had not been there, I would have thrown in the towel at the first hurdle!

It is such a shame to encounter such negative attitudes towards breastfeeding in a country where so many babies are born (well above the European average, I believe), and where people up to only recently were fairly poor - just from a financial viewpoint, breastfeeding would have made so much more sense than the bottle!

About alcohol - I do indulge in the odd glass of wine - I make sure it's after I fed him, and well before the next feed is due (usually we go for at least 4hours between feeds now)- but I believe that so little alcohol will actually make it into the breastmilk after so many hours, it'll be fine. Obviously, I wouldn't knock back a whole bottle of wine, just a glass, but that works for me...

How Strange

dublinlady don't worry about a few glasses of wine. Breastfeeding doesn't mean you can't have a drink or three. I met a few mums breastfeeding their 2nd when my son was around 7 weeks and they said to never pump and dump. Just have your drinks and enjoy them because you deserve them!

May is still a while away and a lot can change between this and then but I'd prefer to breastfeed even if I'd had a drink or two than give formula.

How Strange

Sorry dublinlady it just occured to me that you might need formula in case she wakes while you're out. I know my son dropped the 11pm feed around 9 weeks so your little one may do the same. I suppose you just have to wait and see.

dublinlady

That's fab about the shields gala!!! Wow have to say id love that!! That's so mad that he just gave them up on his own!!

I've had one glass of wine after a feed but never more than that, is it really ok to have 2-3? I was afraid she'd be too drowsy after or her liver would be affected? I'm a worrier tho!!

Pumping and dumping goes go against the grain alright.. You work so hard for it - it's such a waste!

How Strange

I don't see why you can't have 2-3 glasses. I think I only did it once or twice mainly because I was so exhausted that I was sleeping standing up after 2 drinks. But if you're out and you feel like having that 3rd glass then go ahead and enjoy it

annamcmahon

Yeah I assume they are kg weights

red fraggle

on the topic of chubby babies. my little one is very petite (or so ive been told!) shes gorgeous and doesnt really have any fat. her cousin born the same day but formula fed (due to too much pressure from nurses to keep it up but didnt hav good support to help her) is very chubby and much bigger than my little one but they are both the same length. myself and my husband are thinish whereas her parents are bigger. im quiet happy with the way she is and she is eating plenty and gaining weight and i have to say my phn and doc are excellent support and never put pressure on me wither way and just say its great that im doing it!

i didnt think i would breastfeed for as long but its 3 months today without any formula and im delighted. ill keep it up as long as it still works for me and emily i must cut her nails tho as she is really digging into me lately. its very affectionate tho!:D:p

annamcmahon

That's great Red Fraggle. I was the same in that days became weeks and then months and over a year.

I know chubby breastfed babies and skinny formulafed ones so I think genetics play as big a role as how babies are fed.

lynski

my little man was been massive little 'cherub' since birth until recently. he has always been an efficient feeder and only ever fed for 10 mins and every few hours, so i was lucky.
regarding the alcohol AFAIK I read an article last year that said as long as you leave the same amount of time as you would for driving before feeding you are totally fine, and even if you drink and feed the amount of alcohol that passes into the milk is very tiny and it is gone inthe morning, so pump and dump is not really advised any more. the milk is not sitting around int he boob absorbing the alcohol, it is made on demand as such.
here is the article on kelly mom

In general, if you are sober enough to drive, you are sober enough to breastfeed. Less than 2% of the alcohol consumed by the mother reaches her blood and milk. Alcohol peaks in mom’s blood and milk approximately 1/2-1 hour after drinking (but there is considerable variation from person to person, depending upon how much food was eaten in the same time period, mom’s body weight and percentage of body fat, etc.). Alcohol does not accumulate in breastmilk, but leaves the milk as it leaves the blood; so when your blood alcohol levels are back down, so are your milk alcohol levels.

http://kellymom.com/bf/can-i-breastfeed/lifestyle/alcohol/

red fraggle

ok so im using the medela pump. it has now 'cut' me twice.:( not sure why this is as there are no sharp bits on it. it only cut one boob and in the same place on the same boob!! any ideas? my husband thought it was mabe cos the nipple is dry??? i like usin this pump but i really dont want it tpo be cuttin me!!!

Little My

It definitely should not be cutting you!

Can't really think why it might be.. I have the Medela swing but have only used it a few times.

Maybe try having the suction at a lower setting? Does it hurt when you express?

Medela also have different size attachments for different boob/nipple sizes. If the one in the box isn't right for you then you have to buy a bigger / smaller one separately.

annamcmahon

It definitely shouldn't be cutting you. I used it for 4/5months and it never cut me. Tony Kiely's in Walkinstown do spare parts for the medela so I'd imagine they'd have a different size boob attachment.

red fraggle

Little My wrote: »

It definitely should not be cutting you!

Can't really think why it might be.. I have the Medela swing but have only used it a few times.

Maybe try having the suction at a lower setting? Does it hurt when you express?

Medela also have different size attachments for different boob/nipple sizes. If the one in the box isn't right for you then you have to buy a bigger / smaller one separately.

ive been using it for over 6 weeks and it only cut me recently. it hurts for the first few seconds but then its grand. i think i might look into getting a diff boob size attachment.

anna im not sure where walkinstown is. would normal chemists have them. or i might look online. i live in wexford.

wmpdd3

mothercare and sam mccauleys in waterford have some spare parts

red fraggle

wmpdd3 wrote: »

mothercare and sam mccauleys in waterford have some spare parts

cool maybe sam mccauleys here will have them too. i found them online but i need to make sure im buying the bit that will attach to the mini electric breast pump so id rather see what im buying. thanks

dublinlady

I'm using the Avent manual pump, has anyone used that and the medela electrics and found a big difference? I was trying to be cheap about it!

liliq

I found the electric pump better at the start, but since around 5 months when my supply was properly established, I've found the manual pump much better. I'm not sure but I find a lot of them the same to be honest!

dublinlady

liliq wrote: »

I found the electric pump better at the start, but since around 5 months when my supply was properly established, I've found the manual pump much better. I'm not sure but I find a lot of them the same to be honest!

Prob not worth the investment at this stage then! Yeah I do find with the manual you can do whatever variety of pump lengths suits etc. I just don't ever seem to be able to get say 5oz when she should be able get 5, I know she's much more efficient but this makes me wonder how ppl who only express get enough!!

liliq

I know a girl who was exclusively pumping, but she was pumping every 2 hours day and night for months. It's an awful lot of pressure and hard work. Bubs definitely far better at getting the milk!:)