The Breast Feeding Support Thread

catrionanic

Well done to all the BF mamas! It can be tough, especially in the early days when they feed a lot, but I echo what anne_cordelia said about it getting much easier when they’re a few months old.

I’m really excited to bf again. I stopped in March because I’m pregnant again, but I sometimes still ask my wee man whether he wants “milkies” to see the reaction (total confusion... he has zero memory of the boob at all!). I fed him for 13 months but am hoping to go longer on this one. Although it is hard to constantly be pregnant or feeding for years on end!

Best part of stopping BFing for me was being able to leave him for a few nights with his grandparents or let his dad take him away to see the other side of the family for a few days, so I could get a rest! And no more pumping. God, I hate pumping.

rainbow kirby

Hubby was in work 7:30am to 7:30pm and then went running last night. I also bedshare with my 2 year old and have the baby in the Chicco Next2Me beside the bed. I have very little time to myself at all.

I fed my older son for nearly 16 months. I was delighted to stop when I did because pregnant breastfeeding is awful.

shesty

The touched-out feeling is probably worse when you have other kids, they are on top of you aswell - so between the BF baby, and the others climbing on you and hanging out of you, it can drive you demented. I have serious personal space issues normally anyway - I like my personal space!! Our eldest is particularly - physical. She is on me constantly when I sit down, just banging off me, climbing around beside me, constantly trying to touch the baby. It feels like I'm under attack! RK I don't know how you're doing it. I definitely believe in the 4th trimester, so we do slings and he's in our bed a bit at night (starts the night in his own bed) and whatever, I'll introduce a more solid routine around 10/12 weeks. But BF long term, it's not for me I'm afraid.

Anyway, I'm dragging the thread off topic here, just wanted to say it's ok to feel you want to introduce a bottle, be it for pumped milk or formula, if it works for you.

scarepanda

Every mother should choose a feeding method/routine that works best for them and their family, whether it be exclusive breast feeding, combi or formula feeding. The most important thing is to have a happy mammy, happy baby and happy family. Struggling through breastfeeding just because 'its the best thing for baby' does not mean it is in the long run if mammy isn't happy.

No-one should be made feel less because of how they feed their babies. I think formula feeders feel under pressure to explain why they are not breastfeeding in the early days, while breastfeeding mothers (and this is from personal experience) feel like they need to explain why they are still nursing when newborn gets older and hits toddler age. no matter your decision you'll always come across someone who will question why your feeding a baby by a certain method.

For me personally, I never planned to nurse this long. I think my initial target was to get to three months and then 6 and then..... Well it got extended to 2 yrs, but it took me a long time to admit that to anyone, even my husband, not that he gives a fiddler's either way. I get asked randomly by people if I'm still nursing and I get a look when I say I do and then I feel like I need to explain why I still am. And what bugs me, is that no-one would bat an eye lid at a 2 year old still on a bottle, but find it strange that another 2 year old may nurse once a day.

Pocos

Wow never heard that touched out phrase but it makes total sense! And yes with More than one baby I can see how it would happen!

Scarepanda I think you are so right! No matter what you do,formula at first why, still breast feed at a year why?? Like I’ve heard different places fed is best! And I’d like to think all mums are trying to do what’s best for their babies and themselves so why is it anyone else’s business! It’s mad isn’t it?! You feel you can’t do right sometimes!!!

scarepanda

Fed is best! For certain! Wouldn't it be great if we could all support each other in the trials and tribulations of rearing a baby? There's pros and cons to both ways after all.

lazygal

Fed is best is a silly phrase, what's the alternative, starving your child?

There is one biologically normal way to feed a baby, which is breastfeeding. There are safe substitutes for it but I won't fall into the trap of using formula companies' slogans designed to undermine breastfeeding rates and push the use of formula.

bee06

I think the whole breastfeeding culture in Ireland and the U.K. is just so f*cked up.

I totally support a mother’s right to make an informed choice about breastfeeding and when it’s right for them to stop etc. Personally, I’m hoping to get to 1 and then see where we’ll go from there. I can’t imagine being an extended breastfeeder (even though I suppose a lot of people would consider past 6 month extended).

What really bothers me is that a lot of women don’t have the opportunity to make an informed decision because of the last of support and misinformation about BF. 45% of women never try at all based on a recent study. So many give up in the first 6 weeks because they don’t understand what normal BF baby behaviour is, and let’s face it, it’s hard enough to get though the first 6 weeks when you do understand what is normal. Or thinking that you have to move baby onto follow on formula at 6 months because all the formula companies are saying babies need “a new experience” or whatever the add says. Then if you try and give support you are a breastfeeding nazi or whatever.

Then it’s the lack of support from family. I’m part of a Facebook group and some of the stories break my heart. Women being told they are disgusting for breastfeeding an 8 month old, having family members give bottles of formula against their wishes, being told they are starving their baby because it’s cluster feeding. How is anyone supposed to have confidence in their body and choice when their own mother or MIL is telling them they are starving their baby! I come from a family of breastfeeders and didn’t even know that kind of thing happened until I started joining BF groups.

Sorry, that’s a bit of a rant, it’s just some thing I’ve been thinking a lot about recently because I have a friend due soon who told me she’ll give BF a go and I want to try and support her but I’m finding it hard to know how to do that without her feeling like I’m putting pressure on her.

Cakerbaker

bee06 wrote: »

Sorry, that’s a bit of a rant, it’s just some thing I’ve been thinking a lot about recently because I have a friend due soon who told me she’ll give BF a go and I want to try and support her but I’m finding it hard to know how to do that without her feeling like I’m putting pressure on her.

Totally get this, I’m in the middle of it with a friend. She ff her first but decided to try to bf her second. It has gone relatively smoothly but with the usual little hiccups that are perfectly normal for bf but she’s used to formula so doesn’t see them as normal. I’m just always there in the background saying that’s not an issue, that’s normal, here’s a link. Her partner keeps wanting to help by giving a bottle cos that’s what he’s used to from their first, he feels bad that she has to do all the feeds, especially at night, and I feel like the baddy saying try to get to 6 weeks first!!! It’s a delicate balance trying to provide support without being seen to be pushy and without being negative about what’s been normalized by formula, especially seeing as she ff her first!

scarepanda

Lazygal, I don't agree with you that fed is best is a silly phrase, or that it's a formula company phrase, it's possibly used by one, but it's not how I view it. I have two friends who both desperately wanted to BF, and they did give it a go, but for various reasons (mainly down to lack of information/bad advice) they didn't succeed (in their heads). And the guilt they felt for stopping BF early was ridiculous. I'm Pro breastfeed all the way (i really wish the rates in Ireland were higher) and will give any help or advice to anyone that's looking for it, but at the end of the day, as long as mammy and baby are happy and healthy it doesn't really matter whether they are formula or breastfed.

You might not agree with the formula companies ad campaigns (and I don't), but I certainly don't agree with the ad campaign for breastfeed either. I think it does the women of Ireland a major disservice, because it's sold as being the most natural thing in the world, and fairytales and rainbows, and completely avoids anything practical about breastfeeding, or how difficult it can be. It's just not real and sets women up to fail when they do find it difficult, or come across any number of the normal bumps on the road. And because it's not normal to brestfeed here, there isn't the familial support that would be in other cultures that would be able to tell the mother that cluster feeding is normal and doesn't mean baby is hungry. Hell I even got that ****e from my own mother who did brestfeed for 3 months but hid it away from everyone, not once did she ever feed in public even family with 2 babies.

And bee06, I'm with you that it's not fair that pro brestfeeders are classed as Nazis when they try encourage a brestfeeding solution to a brestfeeding problem. There are some women who are so anti formula that they give the rest of us a bad name.

I shouldn't have to feel guilty for brestfeeding, for battling through the first week, where I literally came to within in minutes of jacking it all in, but for the support of my husband and the most wonderful midwife. I shouldn't have to explain why i started brestfeeding, or get kudos from people for doing it. I shouldn't have to explain myself or hide the fact that I'm still nursing at nearly 2, I shouldn't get looks when people realise that my body still produces milk. I shouldn't have to feel guilty about being a brestfeeding mother who succeeded incase someone thinks I'm a brestfeeding nazi, or to attached or whatever.

I'v been thinking about it as well for the last few weeks as I'm on the home stretch of nursing my little girl. Will part of me be happy to stop? Yes. Will I be sad? Yes. Will I miss it? Yes. My breastfeed journey has had few extreme ups and downs at times, but it has been the most wonderful journey, more special that I could ever have imagined. We've nursed on trains, plains, boats, cars, buses, in restaurants, cafes, airports, in front of random strangers as well as family. Boo-boos have been the solution to teething pains and aches, sore knees, bumped heads, sickness, offered comfort during leaps and bad dreams. They have helped her wake up slowly in the morning and helped her fall asleep easy at night. Iv loved it so much and when I think back to how close I came to stopping on day three due to bad advice and attitude from a lactation consultant, it makes me treasure it all the more.

But not for one second do I think I'm a better mother than another woman just because I breastfed my little girl. And the judgment between the two camps is just wrong and puts so much pressure on mother's on both sides who may be struggling with their choice whether it was forced upon them or not.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant.

lazygal

I'm not judging anyone for how they choose to feed their children. But 'fed is best' is a meaningless phrase. What's 'best' about feeding your child the way you choose to?
I never once heard breastfeeding was all sunshine and rainbows, all I heard before I had children was how hard it is and all the horror stories. So I had no illusions really about it when I started on my first.
I've had judgmental comments, including on boards, when I've talked about feeding a 4.5 year old or feeding while pregnant. I've had the comments about 'being too old for that' and the useless, misleading advice from people who don't know the first thing about breastfeeding. But I'm not going to let a phrase like 'fed is best' creep into the narrative around breastfeeding because it is a marketing ploy designed by the formula industry to sell artificial milk. It's not about supporting breastfeeding and was never intended to be one. Like 'breast is best', another term designed by a formula company.
Breastfeeding is the biological norm. That's just a fact. No one can be offended by facts.

Bit of info on fed is best: https://www.acsh.org/news/2016/10/05/fed-best-great-message-not-so-great-science-10240

bee06

scarepanda wrote: »

And the judgment between the two camps is just wrong and puts so much pressure on mother's on both sides who may be struggling with their choice whether it was forced upon them or not.

That’s a really important point. As mothers we generate so much guilt on put so much pressure on ourselves. We don’t need everyone else to do it as well. Being a mom is hard whatever you do. Your handed this little human with no manual and are supposed to just know what to do.

scarepanda

You may not be judging, but your posts come across that way to a stranger online.

How about we support women first?

And give realistic expectations of brestfeeding second?

For me personally, only one of my friends had breastfed before my girl was born, so most of my knowledge was based on what's in the media. I didn't do a whole lot of research, thankfully, because if I had, I would have jacked it in on a few occasions because it wasn't all smooth sailing.
Even the advice and comments made to me by PHNs was so wrong and discouraging.

Anyways, I'm not getting in a heated discussion with you. Let's just agree to disagree.

shesty

Gosh, advertising and company lines from formula companies don't mean a toss to me - do they mean anything to other people?They are just advertisement fillers holding me up from seeing the next bit of whatever I'm watching......to me, if a baby needs feeding, it needs feeding.Formula is an option to feed a baby.Nature made breast milk, so obviously it's the ideal, but the ideal doesn't work for everyone always (having been there where I had no choice but to introduce formula early on with both my first and third for medical reasons).Outside of that .... just feed the baby.

Anyway...moving on.

hollymartins

No one told me about leaky boobs. I mean I knew I would leak but naively I thought it would be infrequently. I did not expect to be changing pads a few times a day and smelling of stale milk. I was not prepared for that!

I would encourage female friends and relatives to breastfeed but I don't sugar coat my experience as that's not doing anyone any favours.

Jentle Grenade

hollymartins wrote: »

No one told me about leaky boobs. I mean I knew I would leak but naively I thought it would be infrequently. I did not expect to be changing pads a few times a day and smelling of stale milk. I was not prepared for that!

I would encourage female friends and relatives to breastfeed but I don't sugar coat my experience as that's not doing anyone any favours.

I often have a small weep (still!) about leaky boobs

Our baby seems to be transitioning into a new phase, it's especially apparent when it comes to sleep. She's a Trojan sleeper usually in the next 2 me, but over the last few nights she won't settle unless she's right up under my arm. Clearly I've given her a bad habit! She rarely wants to feed during the night anymore, just wants the option I suppose

waterfaerie

Scarepanda and lazygal, you're both such valuable contributors to this thread. For what it's worth, I agree with both of you and with many others who have made good points on either side but I think lazygal's point is being misinterpreted and wrongly called out for being judgmental.

No mother should be judged or shamed by another, we should stick together and support each other but "fed is best" is a very loaded term, due to both its historical association with formula propaganda and its implication that the alternative is to not feed, i.e. let your baby starve (the insinuation being that that's what breastfeeding will do). In the context of the number of women who want to breastfeed but are filled with scaremongering and self doubt that their baby is not getting enough milk, putting on enough weight etc. it's a very powerful term.

I think it's important to make the distinction between judging mothers' choices and judging the formula feeding culture as a whole. It's none of my business what an individual mother chooses as she needs to do what works for her, her baby and her family and I would never judge a mother for that. I believe strongly that we need to be kind, understanding and supportive of each other, regardless of feeding methods.

However, I absolutely do judge the Irish formula culture as a whole and I will not be made to feel ashamed of that. It's profit driven, disempowering, unethical and contradictory to internationally recognised health guidelines. We need to be able to stand up and fight against that without shaming the individual mothers who use formula, whatever their reasons may be. It's a difficult balance and difficult enough to do without members of our own breastfeeding community pushing the term "breastfeeding nazis" around.

I don't think any of lazygal's posts have come across as judgmental towards any individual mother but she has rightly pointed out the larger problem as a whole. And I don't think there's anything inappropriate or pushy about saying that there is a breastfeeding friendly solution to every breastfeeding problem. This is a breastfeeding support thread!

As for myself, I don't offer my opinion or advice unless it's asked for. I never mention breastfeeding friendly solutions or push breastfeeding onto formula feeding mothers or anyone else. I don't really discuss it at all outside of breastfeeding groups. If someone comes to a breastfeeding support group or posts asking for advice in a breastfeeding support thread, I assume that they want help to succeed in breastfeeding and all of my posts here are made based on that assumption.

Shesty, advertisements absolutely do mean a lot, not to me personally but to our whole society. Personally, I believe any form of advertisement from both sides should be banned altogether. Healthcare workers should be properly trained and constantly upskilled with regard to breastfeeding, and I mean properly trained, not the farce that currently exists. Breastfeeding should be put forward by every single healthcare worker as the norm right from the start. Formula should continue to be available to those who need or want it, without shame but without promotion. Hospitals should not be allowed to give it out.

How each individual chooses to feed needs to become a non-issue. It's in the formula "machine's" interest to pit mothers against each other. Let's not fall into the divide and conquer trap. We need to stick together.

bee06

That’s a brilliant post Waterfaerie!

jlm29

Thanks waterfaerie, that’s s great post!
I don’t care what anyone feeds their baby. If someone asks for breastfeeding help, I will give it, or point them towards it, but I’m very conscious of how I go about it, because I’ve heard so many people being labelled as “nipple-nazis” or “pushy”. Because they tried to be helpful. Lots of my friends have formula fed, and I would never comment or judge.
BUT
“Fed is best” as a phrase irritates me, and I do think it undermines the value of breastfeeding. It implies that all food is equal, and it isn’t. If someone can’t or won’t breastfeed, formula is a very valuable product, and yes, it does provide babies with the nutrition they need, but it is inferior to breast milk, I don’t think anyone can reasonably claim otherwise.
I don’t love breastfeeding, I do it because I know that it IS the best thing for my baby. It’s the biological norm, and it offers extra benefits to babies that have been proven time and time again. It also offers extra benefits to Mams that formula doesn’t, so yes, breast is best, But I would never use that phrase to try and undermine the choices of another mother to formula feed, so I just will never understand why it’s ok for someone who chooses not to breastfeed to dismiss the benefits of breast milk with a turn of phrase like “fed is best”. Coz it’s not.

If McDonald’s started a “fed is best”campaign, there would be uproar!!

scarepanda

Haha, I did not expect to get leaky boobs at 29weeks pregnant ;-)!!! Or that they would leak badly once my supply kicked in at 5 days pp (naievty on my part!), or that I'd be wearing breastpads for over a year!

Waterfaerie, that is a brilliant post and I agree with a lot of it. But what I don't agree with is that the alternative to fed is best is starving your baby. That's BS to me. Whos going to think that that's the alternative? For me, as a mother who had awful problems with the PHN over my girls weight gain, I viewed the fed is best saying as a way of helping me through the guilt of possibly having to stop nursing, and viewing myself as a failure, because at the end of the day having a fed happy healthy baby is the most important thing, with an equally happy and healthy mother (including mental health).

What I found judgemental about lazygal posts was the breastfeeding being the one biological way to feed a baby, and yes of course it is, but those types of statements come across to me as being judgemental of mothers who give their baby's formula because they are not feeding them naturally. If I had read that kind of a comment, or had that sort of thing been said to me at 2 and 3 days pp when my girl was on donor milk because she was starving and dehydrated it would have crushed me. I was doing everything in my power to increase my supply and it wasn't happening, I very much doubt I would have had the strength to continue on. Sometimes those types of comments, while made with good intentions can have the wrong impact on mother's who are struggling to keep going. Or even more so for mother's who just weren't able to continue breastfeeding for whatever reason and are giving themselves a hard time over it. Breastfeeding is so much more than just the biological process of a woman's body making milk for their baby. It's also mentally and emotionally exhausting, as I'm sure everyone here will agree with. The guilting by breastfeeding mothers towards those who stop of their free will or not is strong.

But, in my opinion the key to breaking the formula industry's hold over how babies are fed in Ireland is through proper education of all health professionals. All the ****e I went through with my girls weight gain was caused by the PHN. She didn't know her head from her arse with brestfeeding. Her solutions were to bring her in regularly to weigh her without giving me any advice whatsoever about brestfeeding solutions to the 'issue', other than to hint about formula, and her second solution was to put me under pressure to start solids at 17/18 weeks. The PHN couldn't just look at the child in front of her and agree that there was nothing wrong with her, even if she wasn't doing what the charts said she should have been doing - which I was told by both my GP and the pediatrician was perfectly normal and expected of breastfed babies

At the end of the day there are probably 2 if not 3 generations worth of breastfeeding knowledge that just don't exist in Ireland because of the formula industry, so effectively we have to start from the very beginning with our generation and our children's generation. And in my view the only way we can do that is to train all PHNs, midwives, GPs and all other health professionals that will have contact with mother's fully on brestfeeding, it's highs and lows, what's normal and expected and what's not, and possible breastfeeding solutions to brestfeeding problems. We need new mothers to be able to contact their PHN or GP when they are having an issue and be fully confident that they will be offered breastfeeding solutions, with formula only being the last resort. We need trained and supporting lactation consultants to be more accessible for new mothers, even possibly encorporating home visits in the early days similar to the PHN system. The problem is that to implement a proper effective system, it all costs money, and who has the money to do that? Hell even the government pulled it's pityful €50k funding from the national breastfeeding body (or whatever it's called) last year. So how Irish babies are fed is not an issue for our government.

We can blame the formula industry for certain for the way things are, but we cannot blame our mothers and fathers or grandmother's and grandfather's or extended family and friends for suggesting formula as the solution to all brestfeeding problem, because unless you have a very very strong breastfeeding positive support system, the generations ahead of us just don't know any better. All they know with regard to feeding babies is formula and schedules and sleeping full night's and never cluster feeding etc etc etc.

Anyways, that again has turned into an awful rant, I apologise. I just feel so strongly because if it wasn't for the support of my husband and one midwife I'd have jacked it in on day 3, and probably plenty more times since if it wasn't for me being a stubborn witch and trusting my gut regarding my girls weight.

shesty

Well I'm happy that my girls think BF is normal, because they've seen me do it and most people that I know.So I hope they continue to to think that.

I'm going to totally change the topic though...I have a very windy little six week old here.He hasn't pooed in two days (this is the third).I know it's normal, but he was doing them once a day up to now, and he has had bottles aswell.And he has so much gas, which is really bothering him, he's crying and bringing up his legs a lot to get it out.We have done the leg cycling etc, but nothing is happening.Any ideas how to help move things on??

Millem

shesty wrote: »

Well I'm happy that my girls think BF is normal, because they've seen me do it and most people that I know.So I hope they continue to to think that.

I'm going to totally change the topic though...I have a very windy little six week old here.He hasn't pooed in two days (this is the third).I know it's normal, but he was doing them once a day up to now, and he has had bottles aswell.And he has so much gas, which is really bothering him, he's crying and bringing up his legs a lot to get it out.We have done the leg cycling etc, but nothing is happening.Any ideas how to help move things on??

Try a massage? Look up ones on youtube.

bee06

Millem wrote: »

Try a massage? Look up ones on youtube.

+1 for a massage and a bath is supposed to help as well.

hollymartins

Would you give him a bath? I found that would relax my little guy if he was slightly constipated and get things moving.

shesty

Yes, we've done both.....we were actually at the osteopath yesterday, and she sent me videos a couple weeks ago with massages.He's had two baths.
I know he had a little growth spurt the last couple of days, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I'll keep trying the massages.Despite the fact that my husband is finding it all very amusing....the noises coming out of the little guy are 🙈I know brown sugar or a tiny bit of squeezed orange juice in cool boiled water are sometimes recommended, but I think that's more for constipation, and I'm fairly certain he's not constipated.Also, I don't really want to try those......

PhoenixParker

Try eating prunes and other bowel movement inducing foods yourself.

Pocos

shesty wrote: »

Well I'm happy that my girls think BF is normal, because they've seen me do it and most people that I know.So I hope they continue to to think that.

I'm going to totally change the topic though...I have a very windy little six week old here.He hasn't pooed in two days (this is the third).I know it's normal, but he was doing them once a day up to now, and he has had bottles aswell.And he has so much gas, which is really bothering him, he's crying and bringing up his legs a lot to get it out.We have done the leg cycling etc, but nothing is happening.Any ideas how to help move things on??

Does your LO take a bottle? We gave a probiotic as our Lo when she had wind and it really helped at esp at night! It used wake her up at night but it took a day or two and the probiotic helped! Our LO doesn’t take a bottle so we gave it on a spoon! Worked fine but at 6 weeks your little one is too small for that! They can suck it from your fingers too! Best of luck hard to watch them with it! Now our LO was 18 weeks when we started but I’m sure they can start it from birth

Anne_cordelia

You can take probiotics yourself and they can transfer to milk. I definitely recommend them too

shesty

I am taking them at the moment, and I have some for him (for his bottle), just haven't started them yet.

Mystery Egg

Hi folks. I'm 36 weeks+4 days pregnant and trying to harvest colostrum for my baby who will probably be induced in around 10 days time. I'm insulin dependent thanks to gestational diabetes and this can affect colostrum and milk supplies. I want to have as much colostrum as possible to help balance baby's blood sugar levels when he's born.

I went to a colostrum harvesting workshop yesterday and had a one on one consultation afterwards. We got about 1ml out and it was truly agonising. The midwife squeezed with such force that my nipples are actually bruised today. This was with a lot of massage beforehand.

I sat down again last night and gave it a go myself, trying to be firm but not actually injure myself. I was in a relaxed position, used warm flannels etc, 40 minutes later there was not a drop and I was close to tears.

I'm very discouraged and in quite a bit of pain still. I don't want to touch my nipples at all today and feel very anxious about it.

The stress of doing this yesterday also sent my blood glucose levels through the roof which is bad for both me and baby.

Any tips for making this process easier for anyone who's been there?