[Article] Galway to Limerick rail route to run at €2.4m loss

dowlingm

Stinicker wrote: »

Surely it is via intercity like that which would have seen the biggest demand from service. There should be at least a twice daily Cork - Mallow - Limerick - Ennis - Galway service.

Direct Limerick-Cork service is precluded by the track layout at Limerick Junction. However, this would be okay if IE were timetabling Limerick Junction-Galway as a through service (they aren't).

I also suppose they never even bothered to electrify the route either.

Electrification? hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha. You here are new, yes?

FlameoftheWest

Stinicker wrote: »

I also suppose they never even bothered to electrify the route either.

You must be new to all this.

Carawaystick

Stinicker wrote: »

Surely it is via intercity like that which would have seen the biggest demand from service. There should be at least a twice daily Cork - Mallow - Limerick - Ennis - Galway service. It is on services like this the demand is especially from tourists and students. It looks to me like another unmitigated Irish rail disaster and they'd have been as well off putting the money into a Limerick - Cork motorway when they aren't going to be bothered running a proper service. I also suppose they never even bothered to electrify the route either.

There are already coach services serving Limerick to Galway at far higher frequencies, shorter journey times and I'd imagine cheaper fares. A new section of the M18 will open by the autumn, reducing the bus journey times more.
Also the N/M18 doesn't close for a few weeks every year if it rains.....

The train service is so much of a joke it's not even funny any more.
As for the train to Cork from Limerick, once the M20 is built, the train will be slower and less frequent than the bus services, and probably dearer too.

steamengine

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Incredible mentality that. Yet on their website are images of trains with "KNOCK AIRPORT" on the destination signs.

Very 'Brunelesque' - just to mention some parallels (including the name GWR) from railway history ! Brunel the chief engineer of the Great Western Railway was asked some hard questions at a directors' board meeting in London in 1835. One of the directors' concerns was the length of the GWR line from London to Bristol to which he reputedly replied - " Well gentlemen - Why not go from London to New York" - which he achieved 10 years later with the steamship "The Great Western". Not for long though due to financial difficulties.

However the GWR stood the test of time, so perhaps if one aims for the sky, one may hit the top of the trees !

FlameoftheWest

steamengine wrote: »

Very 'Brunelesque' - just to mention some parallels (including the name GWR) from railway history ! Brunel the chief engineer of the Great Western Railway was asked some hard questions at a directors' board meeting in London in 1835. One of the directors' concerns was the length of the GWR line from London to Bristol to which he reputedly replied - " Well gentlemen - Why not go from London to New York" - which he achieved 10 years later with the steamship "The Great Western". Not for long though due to financial difficulties.

However the GWR stood the test of time, so perhaps if one aims for the sky, one may hit the top of the trees !

What?

Stinicker

dowlingm wrote: »

Direct Limerick-Cork service is precluded by the track layout at Limerick Junction. However, this would be okay if IE were timetabling Limerick Junction-Galway as a through service (they aren't).Electrification? hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha. You here are new, yes?

What is wrong with the track layout? It is easy to change and a few sets of points and a new layout could be done in weeks without costing the earth.

I beleive when they went to the bother of reopening a line they should have electrified it and run electric trains on it. What sort of morons are Irish Rail, they could easily achieve a train service from Cork to Galway via Limerick, Ennis and Mallow and just run a double DMU set with 6 cars and run it 4 to 6 times a day as a West Coast Express.

It could be a great success due to the population centres served:

Ok heres the population stats:

Cork City Metro: 380,000 people
Mallow Station: 8,000 plus 140,000 Kerry people
Limerick Junction: Rural area but connections to Clonmel = another 16,000
Limerick City Metro: 90,000
Ennis: 25,000
Galway City: 72,000

A Cork - Galway Intercity train would directly service 575,000 people directly along the route and over 750,000 people indirectly. Such a train route is badly needed as part of regional balancing and if priced and promoted properly €20 max return from Cork to Galway would be a massive success.

Only in Ireland could such a massive market go untapped and trains are operating in other parts of the world on less numbers. The world does not evolve around Dublin and unless a Cork - Galway service is not launched they may as well forget WOT. The advantages of the line could have massive economic, tourism and social benefits but like everything in this country it is being done half arsed and against the will of the Railway company.

Irish Rail should be stripped of the line and let another operator run it as CIE exists as jobs for the lads and as an inefficient and useless bloated public sector disaster. Deutsch Bahn in Germany would but them idiots to shame in how to run a railway publically unlike the gravy train that CIE operates. Thank god for Motorways and being able to drive and my sympathies for anyone dealing with these shower on a daily basis.

dowlingm

Stinicker wrote: »

What is wrong with the track layout? It is easy to change and a few sets of points and a new layout could be done in weeks without costing the earth.

A couple of points? Have you not noticed the back road doesn't exist anymore? The only way you could do it is to send a train towards Thurles then reverse to the Limerick direct curve? This isn't Bord na Mona we're talking about. EDIT: Turns out I was full of crap there. See below.

As for electrification - are you even familiar with the network? (Given your comment above you'll forgive my doubts). There is zero electrification west of the Belfast-Rosslare line. Not Maynooth, not Kildare. None. Why the feck would you electrify an isolated section of single track with 10 movements a day??

wild handlin

dowlingm wrote: »

A couple of points? Have you not noticed the back road doesn't exist anymore? The only way you could do it is to send a train towards Thurles then reverse to the Limerick direct curve? This isn't Bord na Mona we're talking about.

There's still a set of points in Limerick Junction providing a direct connection with-out reversing at LJ if running from Limerick - Cork - Limerick.

corktina

Stinicker wrote: »

What is wrong with the track layout? It is easy to change and a few sets of points and a new layout could be done in weeks without costing the earth.

I beleive when they went to the bother of reopening a line they should have electrified it and run electric trains on it. What sort of morons are Irish Rail, they could easily achieve a train service from Cork to Galway via Limerick, Ennis and Mallow and just run a double DMU set with 6 cars and run it 4 to 6 times a day as a West Coast Express.

It could be a great success due to the population centres served:

Ok heres the population stats:

Cork City Metro: 380,000 people
Mallow Station: 8,000 plus 140,000 Kerry people
Limerick Junction: Rural area but connections to Clonmel = another 16,000
Limerick City Metro: 90,000
Ennis: 25,000
Galway City: 72,000

A Cork - Galway Intercity train would directly service 575,000 people directly along the route and over 750,000 people indirectly. Such a train route is badly needed as part of regional balancing and if priced and promoted properly €20 max return from Cork to Galway would be a massive success.

Only in Ireland could such a massive market go untapped and trains are operating in other parts of the world on less numbers. The world does not evolve around Dublin and unless a Cork - Galway service is not launched they may as well forget WOT. The advantages of the line could have massive economic, tourism and social benefits but like everything in this country it is being done half arsed and against the will of the Railway company.

Irish Rail should be stripped of the line and let another operator run it as CIE exists as jobs for the lads and as an inefficient and useless bloated public sector disaster. Deutsch Bahn in Germany would but them idiots to shame in how to run a railway publically unlike the gravy train that CIE operates. Thank god for Motorways and being able to drive and my sympathies for anyone dealing with these shower on a daily basis.

A massive sucess at €20 a ticket? Have you any idea what the cost of your suggection would be to the taxpayer (ie ME) ? Have you any idea how much electifiaction would cost> Have you any idea?:rolleyes:

Stinicker

corktina wrote: »

A massive sucess at €20 a ticket? Have you any idea what the cost of your suggection would be to the taxpayer (ie ME) ? Have you any idea how much electifiaction would cost> Have you any idea?:rolleyes:

Well if Irish Rail wasn't such a Public service behemoth paying their useless lazy workers such high wages proper pricing like this could be applied. I recently took a train from Germany to Amsterdam the journey lasted about 3.5 hours and would be comparable to say Cork to Dublin or Dublin to Kerry. I paid €21 single and could have got €37 return if I wanted. In Ireland the average price is about €75 and often over €100.

Michael O'Leary can transport you as far away as Greece for less than Irish rail charges to go to Dublin, his Boeing 737's cost tens of millions yet he still turns a nice profit without a subsidy and he has competition unlike CIE. The reason why so? his staff are not constrained by unions and he pays them a wage appropriate to what they do, Irish rail staff are heavily over paid and most inefficient.

If I wanted to get from Dublin from either locations I can fly with Ryanair or Aer Arran cheaper or drive for less despite the tolls and high petrol prices. One of the main reasons rail is so unpopular in Ireland it the massive cost of travelling on it.

In Germany you can walk into any Deutsch Bahn station and expect a level of service and punctionality, in Ireland if your lucky you will not get abuse from the staff. I have also noticed that Deutsch Bahn employ young staff also instead of the sort of closed unionised shop that Irish rail are. Wages in the public sector throughout Europe are far lower than Ireland but these people happily except it as a trade off for job security. They hire younger staff and operate normally, unlike in Ireland, where these PS jobs are a gravy train and to get one you must either be in a railway family or a FF hack.

dowlingm

wild handlin wrote: »

There's still a set of points in Limerick Junction providing a direct connection with-out reversing at LJ if running from Limerick - Cork - Limerick.

can you provide detail/a diagram?

corktina

so far as I know a train for Cork would arrive in the main platform,,to run to Limerick, would it have to go out on the main line and then reverse into the bay? It should have been proeprl;ey sorted out years ago if thats the case,,,what about the down trains from Dublin to Limerick?

corktina

wiki offers this

Judgement Day

Wiki's map is hopelessly out of date: apart from the removal of the Waterford Bay and connection to, the Up platform is also out use with all trains using the former Down platform. That said I thought it were possible to travel from Cork via the former Down platform and onto the Limerick line but it's probably just advancing senility kicking in.

corktina

i have to admit I thought there was a connection there too.....

KC61

Platform 1 (the main platform) is directly connected to the line to Limerick.

dowlingm

That's terrific news - I didn't pay attention to the track layout the last time I was at the Junction as I was going to Dublin. However now I know what to look for I see it in the 2005 OSI shot. Apologies wild handlin for being a doubting thomas there.

When was that done? Do Dublin-Limerick trains go into 1 and then reverse out to Limerick?

Unfortunately until the east platform is built I doubt IE will want to put Cork-Galway trains in there.

KC61

The connection is rarely used as Dublin/Limerick trains bypass Limerick Junction via the direct curve east of the station.

It was used several times daily by the Waterford/Mallow beet trains, and some years back by the short lived Limerick/Cork service.

Run_to_da_hills

RTE's clip art caption depicts electrification and a dual track for the Western Rail Corridor.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0329/rail.html

parsi

Stinicker wrote: »

Well if Irish Rail wasn't such a Public service behemoth paying their useless lazy workers such high wages proper pricing like this could be applied. I recently took a train from Germany to Amsterdam the journey lasted about 3.5 hours and would be comparable to say Cork to Dublin or Dublin to Kerry. I paid €21 single and could have got €37 return if I wanted. In Ireland the average price is about €75 and often over €100.

Michael O'Leary can transport you as far away as Greece for less than Irish rail charges to go to Dublin, his Boeing 737's cost tens of millions yet he still turns a nice profit without a subsidy and he has competition unlike CIE. The reason why so? his staff are not constrained by unions and he pays them a wage appropriate to what they do, Irish rail staff are heavily over paid and most inefficient.

If I wanted to get from Dublin from either locations I can fly with Ryanair or Aer Arran cheaper or drive for less despite the tolls and high petrol prices. One of the main reasons rail is so unpopular in Ireland it the massive cost of travelling on it.

In Germany you can walk into any Deutsch Bahn station and expect a level of service and punctionality, in Ireland if your lucky you will not get abuse from the staff. I have also noticed that Deutsch Bahn employ young staff also instead of the sort of closed unionised shop that Irish rail are. Wages in the public sector throughout Europe are far lower than Ireland but these people happily except it as a trade off for job security. They hire younger staff and operate normally, unlike in Ireland, where these PS jobs are a gravy train and to get one you must either be in a railway family or a FF hack.

LOL at that - DB are as unionised as hell, quite alot of old staff, fares are quite expensive unless you manage local special offers , they have destroyed the Berlin S-Bahn for the last year and that was such a fine service.

DB are also culling lines (as are most of the incumbent operators around Europe).

Oh.. btw - FR don't fly to Greece...

JHMEG

parsi wrote: »

Oh.. btw - FR don't fly to Greece...

6 new routes next month, for a fiver. Beat that, IE!

parsi

PWND .. lol

Stinicker

parsi wrote: »

LOL at that - DB are as unionised as hell, quite alot of old staff, fares are quite expensive unless you manage local special offers , they have destroyed the Berlin S-Bahn for the last year and that was such a fine service.

DB are also culling lines (as are most of the incumbent operators around Europe).

Oh.. btw - FR don't fly to Greece...

Don't they??

Yes Deutsch Bahn are unionised and have old staff but so does every company, my point is they also take on new staff and quite alot of the staff I last encountered were in their twenties. My point is that in Europe their Public service is controlled and their staff are happy and trade off the lower wage for job security.

In Ireland all they want is constant pay rises without any productivity increase etc. Irish Rail is a systemic failure and despite the problems of other railways they could not be as bad as the Irish setup if they tried.

In Germany if the train does not arrive within the minute the users are p'd off wheras in Japan if it is not within 10 seconds they are annoyed. In Ireland anything within half an hour of the schedule is considered a success and most trains are nearly always ten minutes late.

mike65

How the hell does it take 2 hours to get from Limerick to Galway?

DWCommuter

mike65 wrote: »

How the hell does it take 2 hours to get from Limerick to Galway?

Slow line speed due to the nature of the line and the fact that the route is less direct than the road, because when originally built, it was not designed to carry direct trains between both cities.

mike65

Right so its only any use for tourists/daytrippers. Can't see shoppers using it as both cities are basicly the same in that respect and too slow for one-day buisness to be conducted. I assume the bus is cheaper and quicker if non-stop service, so even non train spotting tourists might give it the swerve

KC61

The word filtering back is apparently that the running times in the timetable are far too generous and that 1 hour 45 minutes or even less would be far more realistic, which would suggest that if some more level crossings were eliminated that 1 hour 30 minutes would be possible.

KC61

Bus times:
Citylink - 1 hour 30 minutes
Bus Eireann - 2 hours 20 minutes (operates via Shannon Airport)

FlameoftheWest

Is it just me, or during the RTE interview with Dempsey does he catch himself before he says it "people of the West use it or lose it..." ????????

I think he did!

FlameoftheWest

mike65 wrote: »

How the hell does it take 2 hours to get from Limerick to Galway?

Ah, but this is about social justice not transport services...