Guidance on Import License

intershoot

Hi everyone,

Can anyone give us a simple "How to" on applying for an import license to bring ammunition from the North into the South. I know there are a few people in need of some help.

Thanks,

sam@intershoot.co.uk
:cool:

rrpc

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Individuals

clivej

What about when you already have a license for your firearm and you have a Europass for the said firearm, and that Europass shows the amount of ammo you are allowed to carry.

And you have a Northern Ireland visitors license for your said firearm.

Can I now buy ammo in the North for my gun and bring it into the South?

Just asking cos this is what I'm doing at the moment.

intershoot

clivej wrote: »

What about when you already have a license for your firearm and you have a Europass for the said firearm, and that Europass shows the amount of ammo you are allowed to carry.

And you have a Northern Ireland visitors license for your said firearm.

Can I now buy ammo in the North for my gun and bring it into the South?

Just asking cos this is what I'm doing at the moment.

I think you would need the import license clivej!

If nothing else it is a record of what you are buying and would be a tool for either maintaining or increasing your current holding. It also proves the degree of use your firearms are getting.

I'm not sure if there is a facility for marking up ammo on either the Euro Pass or a Visitors Permit, and as far as I know they are really just an authority to possess the firearm in that jurisdiction, and I wouldnt be sure about purchasing ammo.

I'm sure someone will be able to give you a steer!

:cool:

Cass

The process is fairly straight forward and simple enough.

You e-mail/ring the dealer.. Tell them what you want and how much. He will send you a copy of his dealers license. You log onto the DOJ website and click the link for "import of firearms/ammunition by individuals" Fill in the form, attach the copy of the dealers license and attach a scanned copy of both sides of your license. Once done e-mail it all off to the address on the top of the application form. You will have it in the post within 10 working days. You then drive up to the dealer (when your ammo is in) collect and pay for it then drive home. Job done.

Two pieces of advice.

1) Check that you get the right ammo to suit your rifle and try order all the same grainage bullets. It'll keep the price down and if the bullet works well you won't run out/be stuck with other grainage bullets that may not work as well.

2) Every time you order from a dealer in the republic your details and ammo amounts get registered with the DOJ. If you buy from the north your details don't get recorded so ask for a receipt and supply a copy to your local Gardai/FO to keep on record so in 3 years time you can provide proof you have been buying bullets and shooting consistantly. Also the DOJ inform your local station that they have granted you an import license so they'll know anyway.

Hope this is helpful.
Ez.

Cass

clivej wrote: »

....Can I now buy ammo in the North for my gun and bring it into the South?......

I could be mistaken but having a Europass or visitors permit may enable you to buy, carry, and use ammunition relevant to your firearm when abroad and in the country you are shooting in. However should you decide to bring the ammo back (in other words cross borders) you need permission from the relevant jurisdiction to bring the ammo across the border, also known as importing. This permission comes in the form of an import license.

Now i'm not fully up on all the fine legalities of all aspects of the visitor's passes, Europasses, etc, but i have imported ammo before and used the process i listed above to do so. All went smoothly.


(PS - Sorry if some of this post comes across as condesending. Not intended)

clivej

ezridax wrote: »

(PS - Sorry if some of this post comes across as condesending. Not intended)

From you never

And from what your saying....

If I go up North for a comp. then I can't bring the ammo I'm going to use across the border as i would be importing it into the North.

And when I'm finished in the comp. in the North I can't bring any ammo down to the South as I would again be importing it into the South.

It's never easy is it?

murph226

I have a new fac application, import app and export app in since December, local Guards say its due to a backlog

Cass

clivej wrote: »

It's never easy is it?

As i said i could be wrong. I know buying up north and bringing it in needs an import license, i wouldn't be 100% on the legalities of bringing your own over then back again. May be a whole other ball of wax.

murph226 wrote:

import app and export app in since December, local Guards say its due to a backlog

Did you submit your import and export applications to the Gardai? They don't deal with them. I have gotten 2 and a friend of mine recently got his. All three were back within 6 working days. The ladies/lads in the DOJ over import/export licenses are quick and efficent not to mention a pleasure to deal with. Use the link i posted above and e-mail it directly to them on Monday (15th March). I would be surprised if you don't have it back by Wednesday (24th March)

TMC121

Is the ammunition not available from dealers in the South already or could it not be imported to a dealer?

Cass

There are no dealers or agents stocking HPS. Any that have some probably only have gotten it recently. On HPS' website Intershoot are the only agent in N. Ireland/Ireland.

I have enquired with a few dealers would they not look into stocking HPS as Lapua target ammo is going the way of the Dodo (at least for serious shooters - no insult intended) HPS is superior to Lapua and just about any other target round available and at a lower price. None have done so.

If some dealers are importing some on a trial basis then that is a good sign of things to come so long as they don't do the usual and try hike up the price to make a killing. If that happens i'll continue to buy abroad. At the moment i can buy HPS for under a €1 a round. Dealers advertising it here are looking €1.20 to €1.45 per round. Not much but buy in the 500's or 1000's and see the difference.

TMC121

From the UK inc UK VAT at 17.5% for €1 Collected or delivered?

Cass

Collected.

And i know what you're thinking, add your diesel/petrol costs and then its not €1 per bullet, but as i go up at least twice a month for other matters its not an issue. Now i know that not everyone goes up North frequently or at all and that some live further down South than others.

At €0.95 per bullet up North with €25 diesel/petrol for 500 rounds its €500. Thats €1 per bullet.

At €1.20 per bullet and €5 drive to local dealer for 500 rounds its €605. Thats 1.21 per bullet. Or €105 extra. Not overly expensive if you factor in time, fuel cost, NO import license and i could live with that price.

How long though till you start getting the "well its costing more to ship them in" excuses and the prices start to creep up. Lapua in the last 4-5 years has gone from somewhere in the region of €28 per 20 to over €40 per 20. I know the dealers are not getting all the extra money but any extra cost incurred by them is passed onto us along with their profit margin.

To round up i would love to see some dealers, especially those that deal frequently with sports target shooters, carrying a line of proper target rounds. Some probably still wonder why business is slow. This is why. Not to go too far off topic, but its the same with all shooting gear. It can be got (most times) much cheaper abroad. If this is continuely the case i know where my hard earned money is going. As the saying goes "i'm a b***h, i can be bought". Whomever offers the better value will get my business and money.

TMC121

Have you contact the dealer advertising the HPS here?
Maybe theres a deal to be had for volume and I agree, getting dealers to offer value for money is very important

Cass

No.

I won't be too faced. Its great to see them stocking it and i hope it catches on. I am, in no way, having a go at any dealer trying to import them and wish them the best of luck.

I currently have 500 rounds of HPS so i'm stocked up. I also realise that if i were broke and could only afford 50 then the local lad is the better option. For me unless the dealer can drop €100 per 500 rounds its not worth it for me. For others its a good option. I wish other dealers would latch onto his example.

For me i will be truly impressed if the price (bar an increase by HPS themselves) remains the same for the foreseeable future.

It wasn't me!

To be honest, ezri, the dealer in question is a top notch guy and I really can't see him screwing anyone out of money. He hasn't done so to date and does better prices than the vast majority of his counterparts. If there's money to be saved, the saving will be passed on to shooters.

TMC121

It seams to me that the way to get the price down is to get more people to by the ammo, bulk buying in groups.
If there are enough people buying then the prices will get better, not only that it might increase competition and further reduce prices.

There are bulk buying deals there, this I know for a fact

TMC121

To be honest, ezri, the dealer in question is a top notch guy and I really can't see him screwing anyone out of money. He hasn't done so to date and does better prices than the vast majority of his counterparts. If there's money to be saved, the saving will be passed on to shooters.

Have you dealt with him IWM?

It wasn't me!

TMC121 wrote: »

Have you dealt with him IWM?

I've gotten quotes from him on stuff, have plans to buy something (possibly a few things, as time goes on) off him in the not too distant future, and have a series of excellent reviews from friends whose opinions I trust.

Cass

It wasn't me! wrote: »

..........., the dealer in question is a top notch guy and I really can't see him screwing anyone out of money.........

Don't go down that road. I never made an remarks about any particular dealer and have made that VERY clear in my last few posts.

I'm sure he and others trying it are doing the best price they can. For me its still cheaper to import.

TMC121 wrote:

It seams to me that the way to get the price down is to get more people to by the ammo, bulk buying in groups.

Correct. The price set down here may be a little higher due to the cost of him getting a small amount in. If he established a larger buyers base and could import more then i've no doubt the price will fall. I look forward to it.

It wasn't me!

ezridax wrote: »

Don't go down that road. I never made an remarks about any particular dealer and have made that VERY clear in my last few posts.

I'm sure he and others trying it are doing the best price they can. For me its still cheaper to import.

I didn't mean to imply anything about any other dealer, or that you meant anything of the kind. My apologies if it seemed as such. I only meant that this particular dealer is as sound as they come.

Cass

I must have taken the post up wrong so.

I am trying to get a point across without resorting to name calling and the likes (of dealers), and i wouldn't publicly name and shame any dealer on my own personal experience.

I do genuinely hope others reading take note and start to bring in ammo and other equipement that people want and use and start to cater more for the shooter and less for their own gains.

It wasn't me!

ezridax wrote: »

I must have taken the post up wrong so.

I am trying to get a point across without resorting to name calling and the likes (of dealers), and i wouldn't publicly name and shame any dealer on my own personal experience.

I do genuinely hope others reading take note and start to bring in ammo and other equipement that people want and use and start to cater more for the shooter and less for their own gains.

No, I one hundred per cent agree with you. Didn't mean to conflict with you at all. I think it's great that dealers are now addressing the concerns of shooters, and I hope this takes off.

demonloop

ezridax wrote: »

For me i will be truly impressed if the price (bar an increase by HPS themselves) remains the same for the foreseeable future.

HPS have already implemented a price increase this year (Jan. I think), so I wouldn't expect another unless the cost of raw materials rises significantly.

The ammo prices currently available are based on the current (recently increased) price list.

I can't see the price rising to be honest.

dCorbus

what they all said ^^^^^^^:D

ezridax is indeed correct.

Got my import licence for ammo sorted the other week:

- Downloaded the form off the justice.ie website
- Filled it in on the PC
- Emailed it back to justice (on the Monday) (with a copy of the dealers licence and a good quality scanned copy of the front and back of my relevant FAC)
- Import Licence duly recieved by registered post (on the Wednesday)
- Off in my car to meet the RFD and collect my ammo.

Simples!:D

If you were to cross into NI to collect - You would also probably need to get a PSNI Visitors Permit & have your Europass.;)

intershoot

Or.......if you can get a helpful dealer........then you simply exchange money for ammo at the border!

it actually sounds funny when it's put like that......but it saves on the permits to travel on both sides!!

Keeps everyone right.

:cool:

dCorbus

One could do that, i suppose......;)

Now, where could one find one of these elusive "helpful dealers" that you speak of?:rolleyes::D

FS_Target

Or.......if you can get a helpful dealer........then you simply exchange money for ammo at the border!

it actually sounds funny when it's put like that......but it saves on the permits to travel on both sides!!

Keeps everyone right.

Not quite right
There needs to be a permit somewhere, If the dealer from NI meets you just south of the boarder then the dealer is out of the jurisdiction

If you were to cross into NI to collect - You would also probably need to get a PSNI Visitors Permit & have your Europass

And if you go north, just a little, you will needs the permits.

Meeting the "helpful dealer" is a good idea in theory but one or the other is bending the law without the correct permits.

intershoot

FS_Target wrote: »

Not quite right
There needs to be a permit somewhere, If the dealer from NI meets you just south of the boarder then the dealer is out of the jurisdiction


And if you go north, just a little, you will needs the permits.

Meeting the "helpful dealer" is a good idea in theory but one or the other is bending the law without the correct permits.

Well the people that enforce the law suggested it! so what do you do then??? :rolleyes:

They dont want the hassle of paperwork any more than we do, and if an effort is being made to do the thing properly then there is rarely a problem.

But.....do as you see fit :cool:

FS_Target

Well the people that enforce the law suggested it! so what do you do then???

I would get that in writing!

demonloop

If said 'helpful dealer' could take the box of ammo to the exact border, toes on the line, and set the box on the line, making sure to keep his hands on the north side and then the customer, standing just south of the line lifted the box, which would be halfway over the line, would that be OK?

Hopefully 'our' line is thinner than this one

intershoot

demonloop wrote: »

If said 'helpful dealer' could take the box of ammo to the exact border, toes on the line, and set the box on the line, making sure to keep his hands on the north side and then the customer, standing just south of the line lifted the box, which would be halfway over the line, would that be OK?

You would obviously have to get it in writing too! :rolleyes: Thats the best way to avoid un-necessary paperwork!

There is always one!!! :P

FS_Target

There is always one!!!

Is that the one willing to break the law or abide by it?

dCorbus

Lads, let's not be on here accusing each of other of "being willing to break the law", shall we?:o

If it is in fact "against the law", then I'm sure any "helpful dealer" who might take such "helpful" actions would be fully aware of the circumstances and consequences, before taking such a "risky", and, in your opinion, "illegal" action?

In either scenario mentioned above, no laws of Ireland would have been broken IMHO and AFAIK.

Can't say this for 110% sure though, as I'm not a member of the Gardai, DoJ, PSNI, Customs & Excise, Revenue, etc. nor am I a Solicitor or a Barrister - As you seem to be an expert in this legal area, perhaps you could enlighten us and provide us all with a definitive legal opinion on the matter. Thanks.:D

If you're not a member of the legal profession or a member of any of the abovementioned Law Enforcement agencies, then perhaps you could state that these are you own OPINIONS - and not go accusing other posters of illegal activities or of being willing to "break the law"? Just a thought. Thanks.:)

(P.S. See mods, didn't even mention the L word there!:D:D:D)

FS_Target

I am not, in no way, accusing any poster on this site of breaking any laws or any illegal activities in this state or any other state.
My my area of expertise
Comments posted where my opinions

Each to his own.

Sparks

Thing is, FS_Target does actually have a valid point.
Yes, I've no doubt that this does go on regularly in the real world. I have equally little doubt that the Powers That Be know about it and approve of the avoidance of paperwork and non-expenditure of valuable manhours on regulating an activity that is recognised (if tacitly) as being utterly harmless and safe by those PTB, and that they therefore turn a blind eye to it on a day-to-day basis so long as noone does anything too stupid. Such is the country we live in.

But that's what they're doing - turning a blind eye. That's not the same thing as allowing it or saying it's okay. If you should ever encounter a Garda who wishes to inspect all your paperwork while carrying out said activity, you're -- to use the technical term -- utterly boned.

Personally, I'm risk-averse about such things because a conviction for firearms smuggling doesn't look great on an engineer's CV...

FS_Target

I meant not my area of expertise. I'm just a target shooter.

Each to his own

intershoot

here is another one for you;

what happens when you walk in to a gun shop, arrange to trade your current gun in against a new one.

The deal is done, and you now have to (in the North anyway) surrender your permit for the change of details.

Do you hold on to your gun until the new one is added to your permit, or do you do without any gun until your permit returns, which may take 3 months?

Cass

You hold onto your current license until the new one is issued (in case you are refused, you can reclaim your firearm). As to the firearm itself, if trading the dealer would take the firearm in then and there as security against damage and deposit on the new one. So the choice is somewhat taken out of your hands.

intershoot

ezridax wrote: »

You hold onto your current license until the new one is issued (in case you are refused, you can reclaim your firearm). As to the firearm itself, if trading the dealer would take the firearm in then and there as security against damage and deposit on the new one. So the choice is somewhat taken out of your hands.

Aye, but its slightly different with us.

We have everything on the one permit, so it has to be sent of for a variation, which can take up to 3 months.

The point is, its another 'grey' area. While your permit is away for renewal you are in limbo, one firearm is coming off, and another is going on. To be safe you would hand in your current firearm, and await the new one. In the case of vermin control this may not be practical.

You can hold on to the original until the permit comes back with the change, but then you have in your possesion a firearm which is not on your permit.

Anyway, I digress, the authorities recognise the difficulty in managing every last detail of the process's involved. I wouldnt say they turn a blind eye, but they grant a degree of leeway to people that are try to work within the guidelines as best as possible, and in my experience, unless you are being either a twat, or trying to pull a fast one, they wont be convicting you for gunrunning!

dCorbus

The point I was trying to make earlier was that if the Purchaser (from the South) has a legit import licence, and the RFD (from the North) transports and facilitates collection of the ammunition and / or firearm south of the border (beit 1cm or 1km), and said RFD has checked with the relevant NI authorities, then all is legit - the purchaser has permission from the DoJ to import and the RFD is kosher with the NI authorities. All good:).

(Assuming the ammo purchase is within the shooters permitted ammo allowance on their FAC of course)

I was not saying, or recommending, that a shooter from the RoI should bring in ammo without the legit paperwork (and the Purchaser should make sure that they at no stage crosses into NI with the goods in question - kinda tricky to do with some of the criss-cross-border roads).

So in this particular scenario, all is kosher as far as the RoI authorities should be concerned IMHO / AFAIK as they have a record of said importation:D.