Agenda 21 - The Depopulation Blueprint

alastair

jma wrote: »

Sodium Fluoride has been a common ingredient of rat poison for 60 years.

Really?

Can you point to one rat poison that lists Sodium Flouride as an ingredient? Or are you just echoing a standard CT talking point without evidence?

jma

alastair wrote: »

Really?

Can you point to one rat poison that lists Sodium Flouride as an ingredient? Or are you just echoing a standard CT talking point without evidence?

Yes! I'm not so familiar with different brands of pesticides, but I didn't say that NaF is being used in rat poisons, I said it "has been a common ingredient for 60 years". If you look it up, you'll actually see that it may now be banned. So, if it's now banned for use in pesticides, why is it allowed for use in human drinking water?! You will see the following on an EPA document (about Sodium Fluoride):

"It is highly toxic to all plant and animal life. The only remaining use permitted is for wood treatement"

If you don't believe me, feel free to read the document yourself:
http://www.epa.gov/oppfead1/safety/healthcare/handbook/Chap08.pdf

I'm just giving you the information that I've come across. As I said, I would love to be able to link to all the hard evidence, but it's very time consuming. So, if you have a spare minute, why not have a look yourself if it interests you? And feel free to share ...

I mean I get your point. I'm the same way. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything. I have an open mind but I usually need to see facts, so if I see or hear something that catches my interest, I look it up until I find out more. For example, I only recently found out about the fluoridation in Ireland, and I initially found it difficult to even confirm that it was in fact being used, but I kept digging...

alastair

jma wrote: »

Yes! I'm not so familiar with different brands of pesticides, but I didn't say that NaF is being used in rat poisons, I said it "has been a common ingredient for 60 years". If you look it up, you'll actually see that it may now be banned. So, if it's now banned for use in pesticides, why is it allowed for use in human drinking water?! You will see the following on an EPA document (about Sodium Fluoride):

"It is highly toxic to all plant and animal life. The only remaining use permitted is for wood treatement"

If you don't believe me, feel free to read the document yourself:
http://www.epa.gov/oppfead1/safety/healthcare/handbook/Chap08.pdf

I'm just giving you the information that I've come across. As I said, I would love to be able to link to all the hard evidence, but it's very time consuming. So, if you have a spare minute, why not have a look yourself if it interests you? And feel free to share ...

Well, that pdf certainly doesn't claim that Sodium Fluoride was ever used as an ingredient in rat poison. In fact it would suggest that it wasn't. It does state the it was used as an insect repellent, and is still used for that purpose as a wood additive.

Now, while the EPA state that it's the only permitted use is as a wood additive, that's only within the context of Insecticide/repellent usage. Clearly the EPA do permit the use of Sodium Fluoride in water fluoridation, as they provide guidelines for safe percentages in drinking water: http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/contaminants/basicinformation/fluoride.html

TalkieWalkie

alastair wrote: »

Really?

Can you point to one rat poison that lists Sodium Flouride as an ingredient? Or are you just echoing a standard CT talking point without evidence?

Seems Wakeup knows what he is talking about doesn't it alastair ? I think an apology is in order


Patents on Fluoride Rat Poison & Insecticides

http://www.fluoride-history.de/p-insecticides.htm

1921

Henry Edward Percy HUTCHINGS, of Barking Essex, UK: "Improvements in or relating to rat and other vermin poisons", British Patent GB 187,424; filed Sept. 15, 1921; pat. Oct. 26, 1922 (a bait for the purpose of rat and mouse extermination, with additions of either sodium fluoride, barium carbonate, squill or oxalic acid, to serve as a basic poison)

alastair

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Seems Wakeup knows what he is talking about doesn't it alastair ? I think an apology is in order


Patents on Fluoride Rat Poison & Insecticides

http://www.fluoride-history.de/p-insecticides.htm

What do you think you're seeing there TW?

TalkieWalkie

alastair wrote: »

What do you think you're seeing there TW?

Imseeing a patent for sodium fluoride used as a rat poison. Why ? what do you see ?

TalkieWalkie

Here's another one for you, it's taking some time to digest..

http://www.ehow.com/about_6544969_fluoride-rat-poison.html

Since the 1800s, fluoride has been a key component in rat poison and insecticides. When mixed into grain or other food, rats will readily consume the poison and die. This method was deemed to be preferable to other poisonous compounds because it was less hazardous to the humans and livestock that might accidentally ingest it. The use of fluoride in rat poison has declined over the years, replaced by blood-thinning compounds that were deemed to be safer and more effective.

Read more: Fluoride in Rat Poison | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6544969_fluoride-rat-poison.html#ixzz0wIxSAuln

alastair

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Imseeing a patent for sodium fluoride used as a rat poison. Why ? what do you see ?

I certainly don't see Sodium Fluoride listed as an ingredient in a rat poison. A patent for a rat poison that can contain a number of ingredients isn't any evidence that the ingredient was ever included in a product. I can patent a rat poison with oregano as an ingredient, but that doesn't mean it'll be A. any better than other formulation, and B. anyone would think it worthwhile to sell such a forumulation.

So - can anyone link to a rat poison that contains Sodium Fluoride?

alastair

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Here's another one for you, it's taking some time to digest..

http://www.ehow.com/about_6544969_fluoride-rat-poison.html

Ehh - to quote the link above - "The term fluoride refers to compounds comprised of fluorine and at least one other element"

So, it could well be sodium fluoroacetate, which is an undisputed ingredient in rat poison.

TalkieWalkie

alastair wrote: »

Ehh - to quote the link above - "The term fluoride refers to compounds comprised of fluorine and at least one other element"

So, it could well be sodium fluoroacetate, which is an undisputed ingredient in rat poison.

What don't you get about this ?

Since the 1800s, fluoride has been a key component in rat poison and insecticides. When mixed into grain or other food, rats will readily consume the poison and die. This method was deemed to be preferable to other poisonous compounds because it was less hazardous to the humans and livestock that might accidentally ingest it. The use of fluoride in rat poison has declined over the years, replaced by blood-thinning compounds that were deemed to be safer and more effective.

Read more: Fluoride in Rat Poison | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6544969_fl...#ixzz0wIxSAuln

jma

OK, I can't find anything specific on rat poison right now except for the common reports that you probably saw too. But it is a fact that it's used as a pesticide, especially for things like cockroaches - if you like, I can list brand names. As for the rat poison, I'll keep looking, but it wasn't intended to be the main topic. We did infact determine that it is used a poison, and I also found some sites selling sodium fluoride, listing some of its uses as rat poison, vermin control, etc. but as I said, I'll have another look when I have more time.

alastair

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

What don't you get about this ?

Not to labour what should be a fairly obvious point:

"The term fluoride refers to compounds comprised of fluorine and at least one other element"

fluoride ≠ sodium fluoride

TalkieWalkie

alastair wrote: »

fluoride ≠ sodium fluoride = Fluoride

jma

Well, now that we're on the topic of sodium fluoroacetate - this has the same level of toxicity as sodium fluoride, so if we can establish that that is used in rat poison, then we don't really need to keep looking.

TalkieWalkie

This is quite a well known and obvious point but I post just for you..

You will find this on your toothpaste pack..



Hmmmm, Poison ? yep, fluoride is poison.

jma

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Seems Wakeup knows what he is talking about doesn't it alastair ? I think an apology is in order

Do you mean me? lol

TalkieWalkie

Nope

EDIT: i mean yeah

alastair

jma wrote: »

OK, I can't find anything specific on rat poison right now except for the common reports that you probably saw too. But it is a fact that it's used as a pesticide, especially for things like cockroaches - if you like, I can list brand names. As for the rat poison, I'll keep looking, but it wasn't intended to be the main topic. We did infact determine that it is used a poison, and I also found some sites selling sodium fluoride, listing some of its uses as rat poison, vermin control, etc. but as I said, I'll have another look when I have more time.

Fair enough - there's no dispute that it's a toxin, and can be used for insect control, but the issue is it's toxicity for larger creatures like rodents, and beyond, for humans. Table salt is an undoubted toxin too, and is included in much greater volumes in our food chain, and yet this sinister threat is understood to be manageable, rather than a conspiracy to harm.

RoboClam

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

This is quite a well known and obvious point but I post just for you..

You will find this on your toothpaste pack..



Hmmmm, Poison ? yep, fluoride is poison.

This point has been labored time and time again, but it's dosage which determines toxicity. Some things are toxic in small amounts, for example a drop of Dimethyl mercury can kill you, but the amount of Sodium Fluoride in toothpaste will not. If you consume an excess of anything you can die from it.

alastair

jma wrote: »

Well, now that we're on the topic of sodium fluoroacetate - this has the same level of toxicity as sodium fluoride, so if we can establish that that is used in rat poison, then we don't really need to keep looking.

More CT assumptions?

The oral dose of fluoroacetate sufficient to be lethal in humans is 2–10 mg/kg.

Estimated lethal dose for sodium fluoride is 5-10 g (32-64 mg/kg) in adults and 500 mg in small children.

so, no, they don't have the same level of toxicity.

TalkieWalkie

Perhaps the dosage is not lethal, some brush their teeth more than others, some drink fluoridated water more than others, this can obviously lead to damage of the teeth and bones.
Regarding salt. Salt is not forced mass medication.

alastair

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

fluoride ≠ sodium fluoride = Fluoride

What's that supposed to mean? The link you provided is clear on their definition - which doesn't equate to sodium fluoride - the compound under discussion. Sodium fluoroacetate is found in rat poison, sodium fluoride is not.

My name is URL

alastair wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean? The link you provided is clear on their definition - which doesn't equate to sodium fluoride - the compound under discussion. Sodium fluoroacetate is found in rat poison, sodium fluoride is not.

I don't know why people need to argue about the toxicity of fluoride.. it simply shouldn't be forced upon people in this day & age.

Is it logical, in your opinion, to medicate an entire population to alleviate a problem likely to be faced by a minority of people who won't properly take care of themselves, when there are numerous other sources of fluoride in food and beverages as well as supplementary pills these days.. not to mention easier access to dentistry and medical support?

Here's a couple of studies that show that the discontinuation of water fluoridation has little effect on the oral health of people -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9758426

http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=cre34020

jma

alastair wrote: »

More CT assumptions?

The oral dose of fluoroacetate sufficient to be lethal in humans is 2–10 mg/kg.

Estimated lethal dose for sodium fluoride is 5-10 g (32-64 mg/kg) in adults and 500 mg in small children.

so, no, they don't have the same level of toxicity.

OK, so the lethal dose of each is not the exact same, but they both have approximately the same level of toxicity. Acute fluoride toxicity can be produced at doses well below 5 mg/kg - doses as low as 0.1 mg/kg.

I totally agree with My name is URL, by the way, and this is the point I was trying to make.

alastair

jma wrote: »

OK, so the lethal dose of each is not the exact same, but they both have approximately the same level of toxicity. Acute fluoride toxicity can be produced at doses well below 5 mg/kg - doses as low as 0.1 mg/kg.

Not the exact same? Sodium Fluoroacetate is about ten times more toxic than Sodium Fluoride.

jma

alastair wrote: »

Not the exact same? Sodium Fluoroacetate is about ten times more toxic than Sodium Fluoride.

Yes, but now it's just getting technical. We're talking about fairly low doses here.

And since you kindly referenced the medscape.com page, I'd like to point out that it it states the following at the top of the page (note the highlighted text):

"Fluoride is found in many common household products, including toothpaste (eg, sodium monofluorophosphate), vitamins, dietary supplements (eg, sodium fluoride), glass-etching or chrome-cleaning agents (eg, ammonium bifluoride), and insecticides and rodenticides (eg, sodium fluoride). Historically, most cases of fluoride toxicity have followed accidental ingestion of insecticides or rodenticides."

alastair

jma wrote: »

Yes, but now it's just getting technical. We're talking about fairly low doses here.

And since you kindly referenced the medscape.com page, I'd like to point out that it it states the following at the top of the page (note the highlighted text):

"Fluoride is found in many common household products, including toothpaste (eg, sodium monofluorophosphate), vitamins, dietary supplements (eg, sodium fluoride), glass-etching or chrome-cleaning agents (eg, ammonium bifluoride), and insecticides and rodenticides (eg, sodium fluoride). Historically, most cases of fluoride toxicity have followed accidental ingestion of insecticides or rodenticides."

No-one is disputing that Sodium Fluoride is contained in insecticide - the issue is whether it's ever actually been used as an ingredient in rat poison - and still no-one has produced evidence that it, and not Sodium Fluoroacetate has been.

jma

alastair wrote: »

No-one is disputing that Sodium Fluoride is contained in insecticide - the issue is whether it's ever actually been used as an ingredient in rat poison - and still no-one has produced evidence that it, and not Sodium Fluoroacetate has been.

Rat poison = Rodenticide

And according to the website you linked to yourself:

"Fluoride is found in many common household products, including ... insecticides and rodenticides (eg, sodium fluoride)"

alastair

jma wrote: »

Rat poison = Rodenticide

And according to the website you linked to yourself:

"Fluoride is found in many common household products, including ... insecticides and rodenticides (eg, sodium fluoride)"

I'm well aware what Rodenticide is - but no-one has yet produced a rat poison that lists Sodium Fluoride as an ingredient. If it's so common that shouldn't be much of an ask.

My name is URL

alastair wrote: »

I'm well aware what Rodenticide is - but no-one has yet produced a rat poison that lists Sodium Fluoride as an ingredient. If it's so common that shouldn't be much of an ask.

Why are you getting so hung up on it? Sodium Fluoride isn't added to our water anyway.. Sodium Fluoroacetate is, and you've already conceded that is also added to rat poison