.308 ammo

tommyboy26

can anyone advise me on what is the best .308 round for target shooting between 100 and 300 yards?



tommy

jamesomara

If you are just putting holes in paper, you probably should not care - wadcutters would do.

.308 is an expensive round. I would never use Hornaday or the like to put holes in paper.

At the range, the cheaper the better, for overall hole making fun.

When it comes closer to opening day, that's when the handloads or Hornaday come out.

When it comes to the field, only the best.

Also, I consider the factory loads to be a handicap. If you get them down at say 300m with Iron sights, when you put some glass on rifle and throw quality rounds, you'll be spot on.

dCorbus

It very much depends really on the spec of your own rifle TBH and what she likes to eat.:)

I'd suggest you try the 167gr Lapua Scenar HPBT's as a great place to start for 100 - 300m distances. They're about €40 - €45 per 20 Box, depending on where and how many you buy.

My own .308, with 26in Barrel in 1:11 twist, likes very much the 167gr Scenars between 100 - 300m. She really seems to love the 155gr HPS Targetmaster that I've now started feeding her those - but I'm having to import the HPS ammo.

So the Lapua would be a good place to start.

Hope that's of some help - and I'm sure the more knowledgeable gentlemen of boards.ie will be along shortly to correct me and point you in far more interesting and accurate directions!:D

dCorbus

If you are just putting holes in paper, you probably should not care - wadcutters would do.

.308 is an expensive round. I would never use Hornaday or the like to put holes in paper.

At the range, the cheaper the better, for overall hole making fun

Jamesomara - Sorry dude, do you know what you're talking about?:D

I'm presuming tommyboy wants to target shoot as that's what his OP is asking about. I'll wait to see what the more experienced target shooters have to say - but I reckon you is soooooo wrong.:rolleyes:

If you just want to plink away, fair enough - Your advice makes some sense, but for target shooting the ammo you use is critical IMHO.

When it comes closer to opening day, that's when the handloads or Hornaday come out.

I'm guessing you don't live in Ireland (at least not south of the border) so, coz I'd love to know where you "get" your handloads. You are right on the handloads generally being better than factory loads AFAIK (obviously not having tried handloads - coz neither me or anyone else in Ireland is allowed do that - for now).

Do you shoot competitive Target Shooting?? If so, I'm very surprised at the advice you're giving tommyboy. If you don't take part in target shooting, then perhaps you should stick to giving advice on things you know about and not be giving bad advice IMHO to the lad.:rolleyes:

jamesomara

Tommy from your question I presumed you are new to the sport of shooting and not competitively engaged in target shooting.

No offense, however, to even ask such a question implies target practice and that you are not a competitive target shooter.

If you are new to the sport, I stand by my posting: put a few thousand rounds down range and I'll talk to you later.

I would even suggest that you start within 100m, forget the scope, and go iron sights. Adding a scope adds another level of abstraction to the game.

Hopefully, before many rounds you will start to look at your 100m groupings and see that the swiss cheese effect, random holes everywhere has now gone to groupings.

It is okay to be wrong, but consistently wrong is best. Swiss cheese targets tell you that everything is wrong. Groupings left of target, right of target... that is consistently wrong, tell you that one thing is off. The sights, right?

Later still, you will begin to notice that "it's not me" that causing that slight grouping variance, it is something else. You will literally feel that you put the round on target and IT, not you, not the wind, caused deviation.

So Tommy, please advise your level. If you are new, don't waste your time on expensive ammo. The variance from other factors (fit, trigger, pull) will FAR outweigh the benefit from superior ammo.

Whenever you get a new rifle, you need to do a few things:

1) Research your rifle to determine the original design: what round was it originally intended to fire? Engineers are a clever bunch, they usually get it right the first time. Just because you retooled the action on the most accurate 30-06 to shoot the 223 doesn't guarantee the 223 will be any good at all.

2) Do some HW on masses of bullets and the twist of your barrel. There will be a general relationship that suggests mass for a given twist. Spin stability and those centripetal forces mean a lot to accuracy.

General relationships may help you save money on ammo, if that is a concern. At the very least, you should be able to factor out lightweights and heavy weights.

3) Search online for performance tables. Chances are someone with a lot more time and money than either of us have worked hard on this problem. Again, they should be able to save you a few euro. Try and find someone from a rainy mauldy climate like Eire. See if you can find someone in say Scotland as opposed to shooters in Arizona.

However, in the end, experience trumps theory. Here's what you should do and forget what others have experienced. No-one [hopefully] has access to your rifle so no-one has a clue as to what it likes to shoot.

Presuming you are going the competitive route.
1) Buy as many boxes of varying: manufacturer, bullet mass, bullet shape, powder type, et al as you can.

If you are cash strapped, go with Hornaday. Search the top three that others with your rifle are shooting. Get them, shoot them, and if you are shooting hole in hole, you are done.

2) Get a day at the range. A big indoor range would be nice as it would lessen the air variables. Otherwise a quarry with wind flags - easily done.

3) Bring a gun-vice to the range and clamp your gun in.

4) Get a box of 20. Scope in your rifle. Make note of the rounds per minute.

Your goal is keeping a constant rate of fire in an attempt at maintaining as constant a median barrel temperature as possible.

The box of 20 for scoping will bring the temp up so that initial testing shots do not go through a cold barrel.

5) Take three rounds from each box and put them downrange. Have a friend [safely] switch targets (don't move rifle) and repeat the method several times, at least 4, on the same day. Who cares what you are shooting at, you are concerned with flight characteristics and the hole pattern.

12 is a magic number in statistics - minimum sample size that will lead to any kind of data from which information may be ascertained. Thus, 4 tries with 3 rounds.

6) Look at the groupings there should be one that is consistently better.
There's your ammo!

Again, what's the purpose of your shooting? Do you want to be in competition? I am not a competitive shooter. However, with my method and hand loads I do not have a problem putting two rounds 100m downrange and seeing one figure eight hole (off bench, off rest, nice scope, perfect day, after cup of coffee).

However, that's not good enough for competition as I am sure that the purists on the board will advise.

If they don't then they aren't very competitive. This is why the back of the targets rotate at competition.

The big boys have no problem putting round in round at 100 yards.

No one can tell you "the best" round for your rifle. You must determine it yourself.

dCorbus

Thanks jamesomara.

tommyboy, as I mentioned initially:

It very much depends really on the spec of your own rifle TBH and what she likes to eat

This is true for all rifles (target or otherwise), so jamesomara's advice above is very good - Regardless of whether you're target shooting for fun or for competition or to practice your skills for hunting, you will need to try out a number of different ammo makes, weights, and grades to see what will suit your own rifle best.

Some of the lads may contradict me on this;), but if you are thinking of getting into competitive target shooting (and we're still unclear if that is in fact what you want to do), AFAIK you'd be better off testing that ammo which is best suited for precision and competitive target shooting, i.e. Lapua Scenar, HPS, Federal Premium Gold Medal, Hornady Match, or basically any ammunition that is MATCH grade.

Then shoot the groups as suggested by jamesomara (although I'd suggest 5 shot groups (this is what lads who know far better than me have told me - this gives a better average group size, just in case you get the odd flyer in a group, which you will in any factory produced round).

Some rounds suit different rifles - and TBH your OP was one of those wide-open questions (how-long-is a-piece-of-string....:)), I'm sure if you could tell us what Rifle Make, Barrel Length, Twist, etc. you are using, you'll get a load more specific and useful advice.:D

Any of the more knowledgeable lads or ladies want to jump in here now?

civdef

308 wadcutters?
Am I missing something here?

dCorbus

308 wadcutters

Missed that earlier - Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am!:D), but aren't "Wadcutters" lead bullets for lower velocity target shooting?

To quote that ever useful (but not always correct) friend to all, wikipedia:

"A wadcutter is a special-purpose bullet specially designed for shooting paper targets, usually at close range and at subsonic velocities typically under 800 ft/s (244 m/s)."

Frankly, I did not know you could get lead subsonic bullets for a .308!:D - Where can I get these? Although I don't reckon they'd get very far out of the barrel......

bang2

Frankly, I did not know you could get lead subsonic bullets for a .308!:D - Where can I get these? Although I don't reckon they'd get very far out of the barrel......[/QUOTE]

Lapua make 200 grain subsonics for .308 , available in the ROI, expensive though, but quiet.

Bang.

dCorbus

Thanks for setting me straight, bang2, one lives and learns something new every day.:)

There's actually an previous thread discussing those very same rounds here on boards: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055276144

Just looked that round up on the Lapua website: according to Lapua themselves, the round you mention is specialised ammunition designed for short-barrelled (16'' or so) tactical rifles for use with sound suppressors for Military and LE "Special Operations".:eek::)

The Lapua stats don't seem to have any figures for the round out past 300m.

So.......a target shooting round? Hmmmmm.....depends on what your target may be!;):D:D Handy to know though :rolleyes:

Cass

tommyboy26 wrote: »

can anyone advise me on what is the best .308 round for target shooting between 100 and 300 yards?

HPS target ammunition, by far. Its cheaper than Lapua, better quality and most importantly provides better consistancy when shooting. Any distance.

dCorbus

provides better consistancy when shooting. Any distance

hopefully! :D;)

leupold90

I get good results at short range with american eagle .308. It's also relatively inexpensive, can be got for less than E20.

For real results at longer ranges it's hard to beat Hornady or lapua match ammunition. Expensive but very accurate.

Speaking of match ammunition, does anybody know where federal premium .308 can be purchased? A guy gave me half a box to try on the range before but I've never been able to find a dealer who stocked it.

roosman

this is a topic very close to my heart, where can one get this american eagle at 20 euro a box ?? this would be like manna from heaven for me..:)
I used premier match for a while and the 168 gr was incredibly accurate in my rifle...but the price brings tears to my eyes...
to get to the point, who stocks good cheap 308 ammo ?
cheers

leupold90

Last time I bought american eagle it was E16 a box! That from Stakelums when they were in Urlingford. Last summer G. Scully in Athlone had Remington UMC for E18. I haven't bought any in a while so I've no idea what the current prices are.

Again, anybody know where Federal premium 168g match can be purchased?

TMC121

HPS Target master Ammo .308 155Grn
€24 per 20 round box, €120 per 100
Any one want the details PM me

demonloop

TMC121 wrote: »

HPS Target master Ammo .308 155Grn
€24 per 20 round box, €120 per 100
Any one want the details PM me

Handloaded?

TMC121

HPS Target Master 308
Machine Loaded
New Brass €120
Once Fired €110

Handed Loaded
New Brass €145
Once fired €125

Per 100 Rounds

Cass

Full list of HPS target ammo, price (in euros) available here.

tommyboy26

im not new to the sport of shooting have been a member of the midlands for two years. i shoot a bsa lever action .22 which i use eley team which my rifle loves and i have no problem with grouping with this.

however i have lately bought a howa 1500 sporter which i have been using amercian eagle rounds which i bought from j griffen for E16 a box. I have also used remington rounds. i found both rounds good for fun.

lately i have been wanting to get into competative target shooting but i have so so much to learn. i am hoping to buy a savage ftr on recommendations from people on this site. but until i want to try learn to shoot well between 100 and 300 yards. thats why i asked what a good round to use would be

tommy

intershoot

Evenin' All!!

Just thought the attached price list may be of some interest to you dedicated target shooters!

I know quite a few of you guys are using it at the moment and I would greatly appreciate the feedback as it allows us to make sure we have the good stuff on the shelf :P

Any queries just drop us a line, or most people have my contact details by now anyway.

Regards,

:cool:

Cass

Just to clarify for myself and others, the prices are VAT inclusive? and per 1,000?

PM sent.

kartoonhead

john from fingal sports is importing hps ammo at we speak 25 euro per box of 20 or 120 euro per 100 brill ammo and will prefom as good as lapua or fed ,hornandy etc .308 cal 155g give him a bell he is more than helpfull

intershoot

ezridax wrote: »

Just to clarify for myself and others, the prices are VAT inclusive? and per 1,000?

PM sent.

Yup Yup!!

Prices are Inclusive of (Norn Iron) Vat at 17.5%, and are per 1k.

Just trying to make sure the best is available for target shooters, at sensible prices.

:cool:

Cass

intershoot wrote: »

Prices are Inclusive of (Norn Iron) Vat at 17.5%, and are per 1k.

:cool:

Good ammo, good price..................good stuff

clivej

intershoot wrote: »

Evenin' All!!

Just thought the attached price list may be of some interest to you dedicated target shooters!

I know quite a few of you guys are using it at the moment and I would greatly appreciate the feedback as it allows us to make sure we have the good stuff on the shelf :P

Any queries just drop us a line, or most people have my contact details by now anyway.

Regards,

:cool:

InterShoot can you please explain what the letters mean on your price list.


.223 Remington

M/L Brass NEW 53 grain Sierra
M/L Brass R/L 53 grain Sierra

Cass

M/L - Machine Loaded
H/L - Hand Loaded
R/L - Reloads

intershoot

clivej wrote: »

InterShoot can you please explain what the letters mean on your price list.


.223 Remington

M/L Brass NEW 53 grain Sierra
M/L Brass R/L 53 grain Sierra

Not a bother Clivej,

M/L=machine loaded
H/L=hand loaded
R/L=re-loaded
NEW=new brass

any other questions??

:cool:

intershoot

bollox.........must try to type faster!

Thanks Ez

Cass

Too much time and coffee on board, ................must......answer...........as........many...........posts..........as............possible..........:D

roosman

found during my never-ending quest for reasonably priced ammo, for those who are after the best value, fingal sports can do 7.62 NATO Milsurp for €65 per 100...am gonna give it a go...and before you ask :rolleyes:, yes I have done my homework on using it in a .308 action..

dCorbus

milsurp is great for informal target shooting (i.e. plinking) - but not up to the game for competitive stuff AFAIK.

dirty dirty rounds.:rolleyes:

TMC121

I've used this surplus
MEN Sniper grade "Black Spot"
No great fowling on the barrel and my SSG grouped them very well at 300mtrs

No problems here

badshot

TMC121 wrote: »

I've used this surplus
MEM Sniper grade "Black Spot"
No great fowling on the barrel and my SSG grouped them very well at 300mtrs

No problems here

sorry for going off thread
just wondering is it the ssg 69.308 you use?
if so .how do you rate it?

Sikamick

TMC121 wrote: »

I've used this surplus
MEM Sniper grade "Black Spot"
No great fowling on the barrel and my SSG grouped them very well at 300mtrs

No problems here

__________________________________________________________________

TMC121 we have tested at 300 / 400 yds with a Remington 700 heavy Barrel Varmint Rifle and a TRG .308, both MEN and DAG extremely accurate.

Sikamick

fish slapped

Where did you get the TMC 121 mil. surp. ?

at the moment I have some south african R1M1 nato ball. haven't tried them yet.

TMC121

The MEN is available from Fingal sports
http://www.fingalsports.com
7.62 x 51 NATO