Rock Band 3 (Pre-Release)

grimm2005

I'll be sticking with regular mode for a while i think. Too many instruments atm as it is (still have to sell my RB1 set since upgrading to B:RB instruments!). The fact I don't actually play guitar and find hard mode tough enough would put me off aswell. If it ever came down a good bit in price (the stringed guitar) i'd probably pick it up as I do think it would be pretty cool to actually play a bit!

At first I thought the keyboards would be a bit unnecessary but after seeing them in action it actually looks pretty darn fun. Again, if it got cheap I'd probably pick one up.

The one accessory I will pick up though will be the cymbals since they actually add to the game unlike in RB2 where they are just optional.

Banjo

Don't let RB / GH put you off playing guitar. Playing in Hard Mode has nothing to do with your guitar playing abilities beyond maybe building your hand to eye co-ordination a bit and teaching your fingers to move quickly. Sure, if you can't play on Expert you're not going to be able to play a Dragonforce lead part on a real guitar, but the same is true even if you *can* play on expert. On the other hand if you pick a guitar up starting from zero and practice for even 20 minutes a day for 2 weeks you'll be able for the rhythm part of Knockin' On Heavens Door. You have to start somewhere...

That's the (potentially, if they get it right) great thing about Pro mode. If you can't decide whether to spend your free time playing games or learning an instrument, you don't have to choose any more The hardest part of learning any instrument is staying motivated, and having those short term goals of learning your first chord, finishing your first song, nailing your first solo, and all to earn points and compete with other gamers around the world is going to keep you playing where a flat Hal Leonard book just can't.

Adam

as an actual guitarist who sucked at GH when i first picked it up, i really disliked the game and labeled it shit because it was nothing like guitar. however after spending some time learning the game i'm not too shabby now, and quite enjoy it.

i'm wondering will this work in the other direction or will non-guitarists bother with the pro-guitar mode at all? i mean when you really think about it, playing rainbow by dio on guitar is going to take you months to learn, when you factor in how long it will take you to even get to that level of attempting it. so it's not going to be any easier to learn/play in pro guitar mode in RB!

edit: new guitar in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5De9eCH1EU

reading the notes at that speed will not be possible for solos imo, and i can read tab like i can read english.

Banjo

Like learning in "real life" though people will practice the solos at slower speeds and gradually build up to full speed at which point the onscreen tab will be a reminder more than anything of what comes next.

I think, if this works as well as it *needs* to to function as a fun game, this could revolutionise how guitar is taught and Harmonix would be mad not to release a set of games or DLC purely aimed at taking you from day zero beginner to "Satch Is My Bitch" status.

Adam

Banjo wrote: »

Like learning in "real life" though people will practice the solos at slower speeds and gradually build up to full speed at which point the onscreen tab will be a reminder more than anything of what comes next.

I think, if this works as well as it *needs* to to function as a fun game, this could revolutionise how guitar is taught and Harmonix would be mad not to release a set of games or DLC purely aimed at taking you from day zero beginner to "Satch Is My Bitch" status.

yes i agree that it's not impossible, but i don't see how the game can speed the learning process that much so it's still going to take a long time. i mean you can't sit someone who's never played guitar in front of the solo for through the fire and the flames and say that they'll learn it if they just start slow and increase speed gradually, the basic dexterity just isn't there and only comes from learning the basics first and building from there. so it will still take years to get to satch is my bitch status!

calex71

Yeah been wondering about this myself, Adam is right about learning the basics and building when playing real guitar. I mean there is as much to learn about hand position and which fingers to use in which note as there is to learning the sequence of notes as well as the direction and coverage of a strum.

They seem to be pitching as 'learn guitar for real' but at the end of the day for me i see it as still a game separate to the 'real thing' and this new guitar and pro mode add's another dimension to the game. I don't see myself nailing panic attack or hanger 18 on expert note for note pro mode on the fender guitar in a few months or even a year.

You also need to look at who plays this game and why. I play guitar and bass in real life too, but I don't play this because it's realistic, it's fun !!!! a great way to listen to music and play along and challenge yourself to get better as you can see your score at the end. I'd say a very small % of players will opt for the pro modes either for an increased challenge or because it more like the real deal, another small % will have bought into the PR spin that it will help them learn guitar, it may well do but there is a much longer learning curve and things that wont be explained in the game (fretting and hand posstion and strumming etc) vs going from easy to expert on a fischer price guitar.

D4RK ONION

Even as possibly the biggest Harmonix fanboi in the country and on these boards, I too find the whole "learn to play thing" hard to believe. However I am the sort to practice stuff over and over til I'm good at it (see GH2: Jordan; Street Fighter 4) and I can see myself having a lot of fun with pro mode if it delivers even most of what they're promising.

TBH with Pro mode, I'm mainly looking forward to keys and drums. Those look like the two that will actually help me learn and improve with real instruments respectively.

Also, welcome to forum Adam, nice to see new faces around here Thanks for the video

Adam

thanks dark onion!

i'm most looking forward to the pro part of the new game to be honest, because i can already play the guitar, and i can now combine the real deal with the satisfaction of the ranking system/achievements/dueling etc. but my realisation in it's simplest explanation is that we won't see any videos on youtube of people playing Hangar 18 pro mode 100% expert unless they're already very accomplished guitarists to begin with, so the pro mode is only going to be completely accessible to already guitarists, rather than the muscle-memory Through the Fire and the Flames button bashers of ages past!

D4RK ONION

Hey, I am one of those button bashers, mind it you :P

Know what you mean though. I think there'll still be a market for regular old 5 buttonage at the end of the day. At least, Activision are hoping so!

Adam

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Hey, I am one of those button bashers, mind it you :P

Know what you mean though. I think there'll still be a market for regular old 5 buttonage at the end of the day. At least, Activision are hoping so!

oh i don't argue it's still a skill, i'm just drawing the comparison (in a slightly jealous fashion :P)

and i'm sure the game will still sell like hot cakes, as the new guitar will, or would if they could keep the price down a bit!

calex71

See this is where I get my suspicions over how good pro and a real guitar will be , for example you know a song play it in the shed with your mates every week in a jam session , it's tight like a tiger then you play it in RB3 !!!!!!!!!! and oyu are at the mercy of a game, it's tab etc, I have watched my fair share of you tube shredders , hell I am one of them and the difference in how one song is played but sounds the same is staggering really.

Then for real guitar you have to take tuning in to the equation, at the mose basic level for nirvana, drop D or simialar.

Love to know more about how the charts are made for expert pro? DO they use the tab book's? Again that's (granted a very experienced player) someones interpretation of how something was played , and If you have learned the song either by internet tab or self learned by ear or what ever, old habits die hard !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adam

presumably a combination of official tab books and experts brought in to tab out the music?

what i'm thinking is when it comes to solo's your either going to have to know the solo to play it, or at least spend a long time practicing it slowly to learn it, because with the previous editions a solo was a solo, there was only four other places your finger could go other than where it is and the phrases for tapping and fast scales/arpeggios were all fairly similar i.e. hit the first note and roll your fingers over and back on the frets! but now there will be infinite places your fingers can go and waiting to see what comes on the screen just wont be an option for your average rock solo! and especially for songs you've never even heard! :eek:

calex71

Adam wrote: »

hit the first note and roll your fingers over and back on the frets

Or just freeze for a fraction of a second, mash the buttons and wail on the strummer then pray you have over drive left to keep you out of the red

This happens me still on a few songs , even after all my RB exploits

SO for pro and uber hard solos etc , I'm confident of getting an A chord and strumming the living daylights out of it then using overdrive to save me from certain doom :cool:

Adam

calex71 wrote: »

Or just freeze for a fraction of a second, mash the buttons and wail on the strummer then pray you have over drive left to keep you out of the red

This happens me still on a few songs , even after all my RB exploits

SO for pro and uber hard solos etc , I'm confident of getting an A chord and strumming the living daylights out of it then using overdrive to save me from certain doom :cool:

sounds like a good plan! pretty sure there's 17 solo's in hangar 18 though...that is actually in RB3 isn't it? i saw someone mention it earlier, i assume it wasn't a random song picked out of the air!

calex71

Adam wrote: »

sounds like a good plan! pretty sure there's 17 solo's in hangar 18 though...that is actually in RB3 isn't it? i saw someone mention it earlier, i assume it wasn't a random song picked out of the air!

No don't think so, at least I f'n hope not :eek:

Wait no, I remember it was out for DLC in Rock Band 2 a few months ago that has been a monkey on my back since Guitar hero 2, I'm still trying to work up the motivation to go back to it and beat it on expert once and for all, I always choke between half way and 3/4 in watching this guy just makes me sick but looking at it I can't see why I have trouble with it I'm thinging that the parts I would expect to be hammer on's and rolling of the fingers over the buttons are actually strummed in this version, and my preferred guitar isn't GH2 compatible. This makes me remember the other money on my back that is Jordan on expert in GH2 :eek:

That's it I'm digging out the Xplorer tomorrow and firing up GH2, I'll get them yet!!!!!!!!

Edit : The rock band version

I bet I'd pass the RB version too , just looks to be more space so to speak , maybe I'm just too used to it now vs old school GH ?

Edit Edit: I usually fail out after around 4 minutes 10 seconds lol

D4RK ONION

Just to remind poor 'ol Calex here, that I have indeed 5 stared both Jordan and Hangar 18.

*places hand out to be kissed, Alice Cooper style*

Adam

i feel as though there's a challenge there but i only have world tour, i had GH3 on pc but lags too much to really play on expert

Burning Eclipse

No real interest in the "Pro" instruments... Well that's not entirely true, but I'm not willing to buy one.

My plan for Rock Band 3 is to play it like Rock Band 2, but I'll also put the pro charts on in practice and play them while sitting on my couch with my telecaster. I can sightread tab unless things get messy. For example, that vid that Adam posted, no way I'd be able for that. I think it will be a great way to learn new songs on guitar.

calex71

Hmmmm now that is something I hadn't considered, beats using the laptop and having to scroll the tab for sure. Good point BE

D4RK ONION

I'd imagine you wont be able to view the tracks in game without a pro controller plugged in. Sure there's always youtube I suppose, but where's the fun in that? Cheapskates!

Burning Eclipse

D4RK ONION wrote: »

I'd imagine you wont be able to view the tracks in game without a pro controller plugged in. Sure there's always youtube I suppose, but where's the fun in that? Cheapskates!

Ya, Youtube wouldn't do the job. Who wants to play along to crappy laptop speakers? Nope, 360 is hooked up to the 5.1, that's where it's at. I just can't justify spending the money on another guitar, when I have 2 plastic ones and 3 real ones.

I really hope they don't lock those tracks... If it's on the disc, it should be for everyone.

calex71

Some more gameplay details, not sure what to make of these.

Harmonix have posted a new entry to their website regarding new features coming to Rock Band 3. Titled Road Challenges, Harmonix say it will combine Quickplay's simplicity with the "narrative scope of the Tour mode" bundled with some unique twists.




In essence, you progress from tiny gigs to larger venues such as stadia, with the ultimate venue of outdoor festival being attainable. The difference however, lies in the structure and progression of the play. Whereas Tour Mode was a "sprawling campaign," this new feature is presented via "ten concise Road Challenges." These challenges come in different sizes, so Harmonix say there's something for everyone, whether it be a three hour challenge, or grabbing a quick game before you head out.

Each gig contains the chance for bonuses by achieving certain goals, with successful completion allowing your band to earn more 'spades' (the measure of success when playing - i.e. a 'spade' per star earned for each song plus any bonuses earned).

Harmonix offered up details on the kinds on bonus scenarios you'll be tasked with;

* "Overdrive Overdose." Earn your bonus by deploying Overdrive as many times as possible. It doesn't matter how long each Overdrive deployment lasts - the greater the number of Overdrive deployments, the larger the bonus

* "Streakmania." Build your bonus with each streak of notes (or vocal phrases) achieved by any member of your band. Consecutive streaks grow the bonus at an even faster rate.

* "Share the Spotlight." Band members take turns performing "in the spotlight." When you're in the spotlight, you're under pressure to achieve a note (or vocal phrase) streak. Doing so hands off the spotlight to another band member. Your bonus grows with each successful hand-off.

* "All for One." If all band members play with high accuracy within a song section, your bonus increases. But if even one member fails to make the cut, then no bonus is gained - you'll have to try again in the next song section.

* "Overdrive Streak." Here, you're rewarded for using Overdrive without breaking streak. The more notes (or vocal phrases) you can streak while deploying Overdrive, the bigger the bonus.

* "Overdrive Chain." This one's about deploying Overdrive for as long a time as possible. Band members can extend their Overdrive time by "chaining together" deployments - so long as one or more players is deploying, the chain continues to build. Longer chains translate to bigger bonuses, so coordinate with your band to time your deployments appropriately.

Road Challenges are tied to a bands career allowing you to unlock additional items, such as clothes, instruments and such, and of course new and more difficult Road Challenges as you upgrade your band vehicle.

Harmonix's post didn't clarify what on Earth 'spades' are used for, and whether Road Challenges would be offline or online co-op (or both), or accessible in solo play. All in all however, they sound pretty pleased with their work:

These gameplay variations are the most novel, unique aspect of the Road Challenges mode. Our motivation was to inject new life into our core gameplay while keeping it familiar and uncomplicated.

calex71

Set list update

Bob Marley & The Wailers -- "Get Up, Stand Up"
INXS -- "Need You Tonight"
Poni Hoax -- "Antibodies"
Rammstein -- "Du Hast"
Roxette -- "The Look"
Tokio Hotel -- "Humanoid"
HIM -- "Killing Loneliness"
Maná -- "Oye Mi Amor"
Slipknot -- "Before I Forget"
War -- "Low Rider"

Couple of those were in GH5, shocking to say Roxette is the only one that half interests me

Add to this the news that GH is getting full band Symphony of Destruction next week, shakes fist at HMX

Mr. K

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

I just can't justify spending the money on another guitar

This. I have too many plastic instruments lying around now, it's a bit silly. However, actually trying out Pro mode will probably change my mind...we'll see!

Jerichoholic

If I buy, it'll be the Fender, since I havent had a decent real guitar in a few years. Any idea of how much it would cost over these parts?

calex71

Jerichoholic wrote: »

If I buy, it'll be the Fender, since I havent had a decent real guitar in a few years. Any idea of how much it would cost over these parts?

It's not coming out with the game, haven't found anything to confirm an actual date 100%. But initially it was said to be 250 US so I'd say in or around the same here, but that said an actual plain old squire goes for about that new, so I'd be expecting to pay a bit more for the RB one

All speculation at this point add to that we didnt get RB2 intsruments here, I would be slightly but only very slightly pessimistic that they will even come out over here.

Jerichoholic

If it comes out under €300, I'd reckon it was a good investment.

D4RK ONION

I'm willing to pay up to €400 for the guitar as my current electric sucks. If they don't release them here, I'll import them and do so while muttering curses. Simple :P

calex71

D4RK ONION wrote: »

I'm willing to pay up to €400 for the guitar as my current electric sucks. If they don't release them here, I'll import them and do so while muttering curses. Simple :P

Wow you would do a lot better than a ****ty squire for 400, hell nearly I say nearly sell you my blondie for that

Not mine but I have the same one.

calex71

More info on Pro Keys and pics of the KB accessory here http://www.rockband.com/zine/rb3-features-pro-keys

My only hope for it is that the buttons on the left neck / handle are not needed for play , else it is so not lefty friendly. Wishful thinking on my part here I think