Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Brian CivilEng

DWCommuter wrote: »

Great to see some posters finally figuring out how its done in Ireland.:D

Oh man, I'm agreeing with Derek, what has become of my eternal optimism? I really thought that Metro North would sneak in while nobody was looking before the crash. Oh well, back to working on my design for a teleporter.

We need some alternative to central government funding. In France cities like Lyon fund their capital projects through local taxes. I'm not saying that this would work for Dublin, but it does show that the government isn't the be all and end all.

Jack Noble

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Oh man, I'm agreeing with Derek, what has become of my eternal optimism? I really thought that Metro North would sneak in while nobody was looking before the crash. Oh well, back to working on my design for a teleporter.

We need some alternative to central government funding. In France cities like Lyon fund their capital projects through local taxes. I'm not saying that this would work for Dublin, but it does show that the government isn't the be all and end all.

We need a complete rethink in how we fund and run government in this country - national and local.

Whether you support Metro and Dart or not, anyone with a bit of cop on can see that govt has again gone for the easy option - slash capital investment - rather than the fiscally correct but politically unpopular one of cutting current spending, ie welfare and PS wages and pensions.

Thing is, they are still going to have to do that three or four years from now - and it will be much deeper and harder and more painful then.

When will politicians learn...?

Aard

Jack Noble wrote: »

When will politicians learn...?

Most likely when they're in opposition.

Jack Noble

Aard wrote: »

Most likely when they're in opposition.

And then they forget it all the second they get into government...

DWCommuter

Less than 12 hours now until the official announcement. An announcement that will only be surprising to anyone that was either;

A. Dead.

B. Delusional.

or

C. Plain stupid.

We really need a MN Boards Beers night, with a bit of DU thrown in.:D

traintimes

DWCommuter wrote: »

Less than 12 hours now until the official announcement. An announcement that will only be surprising to anyone that was either;

A. Dead.


B. Delusional.

or

C. Plain stupid.

We really need a MN Boards Beers night, with a bit of DU thrown in.:D

Actually the party has already started, come 12 high noon 2moro the govt will announce the end game for The metro north boondoggle a 10 billion euro waste of money, a project so mad that would make Nero twitch in his toga. Saint Stephens Green has been saved from the charlatans at the city gates,dubliners can breeath again, and to all the supporters of metro north such as jack noble and all, well this cancellation should give you more time to devote to more realistic projects like time travel and finding the God particle in the Haldron collider.
If any one wants to meet up and cekebrate the end of Metro north post up the best pub in Dublin, Ill buy all you sad losers who supported Metro north a drink and organise Hattie jacque to give you a lap dance ....

AngryLips

Jack Noble wrote: »

We need a complete rethink in how we fund and run government in this country

What do you think brought the IMF here?

Jack Noble

AngryLips wrote: »

Jack Noble wrote: »

We need a complete rethink in how we fund and run government in this country

What do you think brought the IMF here?

It appears our politicians haven't quite understood that not very subtle hint.

Zebra3

Jack Noble wrote: »

When will politicians learn...?

By and large most politicans aren't some bunch of idiots.

Most are cunning and devious.

They mainly take the decisions which they think will work well with the electorate regardless of the rights and wrongs.

Sadly, the electorate isn't intelligent enough.

There needs to be a big change in the way the state is run. The GDA is the driving force of the national economy and projects like MN and DU have been sacrificed so rural areas got motorways they'll never need.

DWCommuter

Just for the record - deferred. (which really means, forget it.)

Judgement Day

So Metro North has bitten the dust, and good riddance, but why did they have to axe the Bray extension of the Luas - I was so looking forward to going across the Bride's Glen viaduct on a tram (at least once) in both directions.

weehamster

Good bye..(sniff)...high quality public transport for Dublin....sniff

Bartyman

So, the roads are now busier than ever, whats the bets on car tax increases and other transport stealth taxes in the budget, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

I did have a Green Jersey attitude to my spending, but seeing as it's going to fund the bankers, PS and welfare, I'll be bargain hunting all across the globe for Christmas.

monkeybutter

Thank god this white elephant has been killed off, at last politicians are actually making the right moves.

ManAboutCouch

Bartyman wrote: »

So, the roads are now busier than ever...

?

What makes you think that? Traffic volumes are so far down from projections that the state is having to pay Eur 500,000 per month to support the PPP schemes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0613/1224298811743.html

dubhthach

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

?

What makes you think that? Traffic volumes are so far down from projections that the state is having to pay Eur 500,000 per month to support the PPP schemes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0613/1224298811743.html

Those were traffic projections for the M3 an N18 Limerick tunnel. I don't see how they are relevant to traffic in Dublin city, which would be relevant to Metro North.

Spokes of Glory

I'm a north county resident myself, but I could never understand why we needed a third mode of rail transport (after DART and LUAS). Surely one of these 2 existing modes could be extended ? Obviously either would still cost significant bucks, but why not leverage what we already have rather than tack on a new piece of kit that would no doubt have its on ticketing system, drive more maintenance and spare parts resourcing etc etc.

And anyone in the locality who actually believed the local politicians pre-election when they promised it would still go ahead, knowing full well the country is potless......was just naive at best.

All academic now anyways.

Spokes

Jehuty42

Spokes of Glory wrote: »

I'm a north county resident myself, but I could never understand why we needed a third mode of rail transport (after DART and LUAS). Surely one of these 2 existing modes could be extended ? Obviously either would still cost significant bucks, but why not leverage what we already have rather than tack on a new piece of kit that would no doubt have its on ticketing system, drive more maintenance and spare parts resourcing etc etc.

This. I have no problems with the alignment and general plans, but I don't know why it couldn't be built under the LUAS umbrella, same gauge, same stock, same operators.

trellheim

too many stops on luas, mn is about longer range heavy commuting and airport traffic.

dart into connolly undoable without really massive cash and worse upheaval ( far more than MN and doesn't leave you where you want to go - SSG or OCS usually )

monument

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

?

What makes you think that? Traffic volumes are so far down from projections that the state is having to pay Eur 500,000 per month to support the PPP schemes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0613/1224298811743.html

Traffic in Dublin has bounced back a good deal in the last year. Congestion is at or near gridlock levels around a number of areas at peak times.

bk

Spokes of Glory wrote: »

I'm a north county resident myself, but I could never understand why we needed a third mode of rail transport (after DART and LUAS). Surely one of these 2 existing modes could be extended ? Obviously either would still cost significant bucks, but why not leverage what we already have rather than tack on a new piece of kit that would no doubt have its on ticketing system, drive more maintenance and spare parts resourcing etc etc.

Jehuty42 wrote: »

This. I have no problems with the alignment and general plans, but I don't know why it couldn't be built under the LUAS umbrella, same gauge, same stock, same operators.

Metro North is actually just a variant of LUAS. It uses the same gauge as LUAS and LUAS trams could run on it. It is just MN was going to use longer trams to carry more passengers. MN would likely have been renamed as LUAS if it had gone ahead.

I'm shocked at all the clueless people coming on boards saying they are delighted to see MN and DU being cancelled. Clearly these people haven't a clue what public transport a modern city like Dublin needs and what bad news this is.

It seems many people have bought the rubbish of some commentators in the media that it is just a link to the airport or some sort of Bertie project.

AngryLips

trellheim wrote: »

too many stops on luas, mn is about longer range heavy commuting and airport traffic.

That didn't stop Government plans to extend the Green Luas line all the way out to Bray...

Bartyman

monument wrote: »

Traffic in Dublin has bounced back a good deal in the last year. Congestion is at or near gridlock levels around a number of areas at peak times.

Listen to AA roadwatch any weekday morning, it's the same old story - Swords Road to Whitehall / Drumcondra is slow moving.

D.L.R.

What a silly little country. Glad I emigrated. Poor aul Dublin, maybe Ireland should've been partitioned East-West rather than North-South.

Zebra3

bk wrote: »

I'm shocked at all the clueless people coming on boards saying they are delighted to see MN and DU being cancelled. Clearly these people haven't a clue what public transport a modern city like Dublin needs and what bad news this is.

It really does beggar belief.

Usually the first thing Irish people notice on a weekend city break elsewhere in Europe is the high quality public transport network that is so easy to use. And it generally happens when they pick up their bags at the airport and are trying to get from the airport to their city centre hotel.

Although the news was not exactly unexpected, it is terrible news for Dublin (and therefore Ireland).

We are falling so far behind other cities of similar size and no-one seems to give a toss. :mad: :mad: :mad:

"Sure won't everyone still come here cos of our pubs?" :rolleyes:

Brian CivilEng

So long and thanks for all the fish. Inevitable really, politicians in this country don't understand something that takes longer than one election cycle to deliver. Also it didn't help that Castlebar wasn't served. If a project that was so well designed, had a high benefit cost ratio and was recommended by more than one independent review can't survive, what hope is there?

Really questioning my career choice now. No more capital spending on roads for the foreseeable future, very little on public transport. The only work for engineers will be in maintenance. There'll be a lot of expertise lost by the time we get up and running again.

DWCommuter

From May 2010.

As for Metro North, I'll throw the piss on the picnic line out again. Despite it being a PPP and a case of the state not having to upfront the cash, it still has to be funded annually for many years. (the payback) If you consider the cuts to micky mouse budgets thats going on, then a few hundred million a year for many years doesn't look enticing. You can add to that the continued world wide banking crisis that makes it difficult to finance anything. The aforementioned 500 million loan towards constructions costs is a pittance and at the end of the day is still a loan.

My prediction - Metro North won't start anytime soon.

And for the love of God, what happened to Navan Rail.:D

Jehuty42

bk wrote: »

Metro North is actually just a variant of LUAS. It uses the same gauge as LUAS and LUAS trams could run on it. It is just MN was going to use longer trams to carry more passengers. MN would likely have been renamed as LUAS if it had gone ahead.

Ah right, that's what I was hoping would happen, I just hadn't seen any evidence of it. It seemed to be treated by the RPA as an entirely different project operationally.

bk wrote: »

I'm shocked at all the clueless people coming on boards saying they are delighted to see MN and DU being cancelled. Clearly these people haven't a clue what public transport a modern city like Dublin needs and what bad news this is.

I hope you don't mean me. I am gutted to see MN and(especially) DU not go ahead. Things will now just trundle along our congested rail network at the painful status quo we are at now. It is scandalous that the last major investment in the heavy rail commuter network of the economic heart of the country was the flipping DART 25 years ago. When was the last time an entirely new alignment of heavy rail was put down in the city of Dublin? Decades ago, if not in the 19th century? (excluding the new rail siding off Alexandra Road).

Judgement Day

bk wrote: »

I'm shocked at all the clueless people coming on boards saying they are delighted to see MN and DU being cancelled. Clearly these people haven't a clue what public transport a modern city like Dublin needs and what bad news this is.

It seems many people have bought the rubbish of some commentators in the media that it is just a link to the airport or some sort of Bertie project.

I've campaigned for better public transport in Dublin and Ireland since about 1977 but I'm delighted to see the abandonment of both these projects. Metro North because I think it's a Celtic Tiger project whose time has past and DART Undergound because it's a CIE/IE project. I would like to have seen Luas extension BXD binned too because it follows a nonsensical route. Anyway, I will wear the 'clueless' title as a badge of honour - many thanks.

lods

http://www.herald.ie/news/40000-jobs-go-down-with-metro-north-2931701.html


The Figure gets bigger & bigger:eek:

Any advance on 40,000 jobs :rolleyes: