Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

marno21

The proposed Phibsborough/Whitworth stop is right beside Glasnevin Junction with both the Maynooth and North Wall/Docklands lines nearby. Could this be a potential new Interchange stop in addition to Tara Street?

Having a stop here, and a stop at Tara Street would mean Interchange stops with the Northern Line, Southeastern Line, Maynooth Line and Docklands line, along with PPT services from Heuston.

Could be a very useful alternative to the DART Interconnector until it's built

jd

marno21 wrote: »

* The Metro will have no stop at Drumcondra, but will instead have a stop at Phibsborough/Whitworth, at Cross Guns Bridge on the Whitworth Road

I suspect Des Kelly's site will be CPOd (if this proceeds)..

Beside 2 railway lines and this metro line

(snap marno)

markpb

Stephen15 wrote: »

It gets decent usage on Ballyogan Road due the poorly planned low density housing estates like The Gallops, Sandyford Hall and Leopardstown Heights

In the 90s when those housing estates were built, they were a long way from Dublin and a long way from any kind of decent public transport. With the exception of the M50, there were no planned infrastructure improvements in the area. I'm not sure how you think they were poorly planned?

yabadabado

That plan if true seems to me to make most sense. Mostly underground and with interchanges with other PT in several places.
Now just get the shovels into the ground

Bray Head

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Links to the maps referenced above on the IT website.[/font]



The first Map shows an outline of the whole route.

The second Map shows an outline of the northern section of the text. It is clearly inconsistent with the next. I think they've taken the old MN map and simply overlaid the new stations.

Stephen15

markpb wrote: »

In the 90s when those housing estates were built, they were a long way from Dublin and a long way from any kind of decent public transport. With the exception of the M50, there were no planned infrastructure improvements in the area. I'm not sure how you think they were poorly planned?

Building a large number of low density houses with little access to public transports seems like bad planning to me.

AngryLips

While I welcome a metro line that continues into the southern suburbs instead of terminating in the city centre like the original MN proposal, I feel that lack of an interchange with Maynooth Line, plus the effect it has on the Brides Glen Luas is a huge mistake. Ideally, there should be an interchange for the Maynooth line where they intersect, and also they should consider extending the Brides Glen Luas onwards to Bray at one end and Dundrum/Tallaght at the other end.

MJohnston

marno21 wrote: »

The proposed Phibsborough/Whitworth stop is right beside Glasnevin Junction with both the Maynooth and North Wall/Docklands lines nearby. Could this be a potential new Interchange stop in addition to Tara Street?

Having a stop here, and a stop at Tara Street would mean Interchange stops with the Northern Line, Southeastern Line, Maynooth Line and Docklands line, along with PPT services from Heuston.

Could be a very useful alternative to the DART Interconnector until it's built

I had a similar idea a while back myself, although I was trying to wedge it in at some impractical spot nearer Dorset Street. Cross Guns is a much better spot for it - there's about 190m out the back of the Des Kelly store which is beside the Docklands-bound line, and about 200m along the side of the Brian Boru pub on the Connolly-bound line. In comparison, Broombridge is about 180m, so is Ashtown.

What are the rules (if any) for Irish Rail stations and proximity to switching points? If there aren't any, that would mean you could fit a rail station there without any CPO of the actual buildings, just their car parks.

I'd like to see them add a proper pedestrian bridge over the canal at Shandon Park too, which would let people walk from Cabra Luas stop to this Whitworth/Cross Guns interchange station in around 10 minutes. You already can do this walk, the only problem is the paths on the south side of the canal are not proper paths, and the only way across the canal is on the locks - great if you're just a pedestrian, not useful if you've a wheelchair/pram or are just unsteady on your feet.

(As an aside of an aside of an aside - if you put that pedestrian bridge at Shandon Park, you could have another one crossing the railway lines which would deposit you into the middle of the section of Glasnevin Cemetery that's in the "island" between Glasnevin Junction - this would be an excellent tourist provision)

plodder

Could a station be built easily at Cross guns on the existing line? It must be easier to do that than add stations to the Metro after the fact. It would be a good place for such an interchange.

The elevated section around Swords is new. I think that was at grade previously. Have mixed feelings about that as it's obviously more efficient transportation-wise, but it won't exactly enhance the area visually. Fortunately, it's fairly well screened from nearby residential areas.

CatInABox

AngryLips wrote: »

While I welcome a metro line that continues into the southern suburbs instead of terminating in the city centre like the original MN proposal, I feel that lack of an interchange with Maynooth Line, plus the effect it has on the Brides Glen Luas is a huge mistake. Ideally, there should be an interchange for the Maynooth line where they intersect, and also they should consider extending the Brides Glen Luas onwards to Bray at one end and Dundrum/Tallaght at the other end.

It's probably going to have an interchange at Whitworth. We'll have to see the proposal, and it might be something that's done after the completion of the project, but it will happen, as it makes sense.

The Luas extension to Bray is also being talked about, not sure about the Tallaght one. They'll be separate projects though, as just getting Metro Link will built will be difficult enough. Metro Link is also of a far, far higher Proirity than those two.

Honestly, this is an excellent plan, really linking several modes of transport.

The turn in the middle before the matter stop will mean it'll have to crawl around that curve though.

MJohnston

plodder wrote: »

Could a station be built easily at Cross guns on the existing line? It must be easier to do that than add stations to the Metro after the fact. It would be a good place for such an interchange.

The elevated section around Swords is new. I think that was at grade previously. Have mixed feelings about that as it's obviously more efficient transportation-wise, but it won't exactly enhance the area visually. Fortunately, it's fairly well screened from nearby residential areas.

See my post just before yours for some back of the napkin calculations on a Cross Guns railway station.

plodder

MJohnston wrote: »

See my post just before yours for some back of the napkin calculations on a Cross Guns railway station.

Some good ideas there all right. Linking in with the cycle path has huge potential.

BTW. No mention of DART underground and the DART link at Tara St. looks like it is a thing after all. So DU maybe is on the long finger?

Shurimgreat

marno21 wrote: »

This is getting tiring.

The Metro is being carried on the section from around Ranelagh to Sandyford because it was built with a Metro upgrade in mind. Lets not forget it was originally a heavy rail line and is a much, much higher standard than the rest of the Luas network. By the time Metrolink opens in 2027 the Luas along this stretch will be over capacity. Why not upgrade it and vastly improve the light rail network?

The stretch of current Luas line from Sandyford to wherever the tunnel portal is WILL NOT BE CARRYING LUAS TRAMS after Metro opens. There simply isn't the capacity for them. It won't be like College Green where there will be 5/6 Metros waiting behind a chugging Luas tram along the route.

The Luas stubs at either end will function perfectly well tieing in with the Metro at Sandyford and the northern portal area. The idea of a Luas line all the way from Finglas to Bray makes little sense anyway, so the splitting of the Green line into two seperate tram systems at either end with the central high volume section being a Metro is a good idea.

In summary in 2027:

(Finglas)-Broombridge-tunnel portal (somewhere between Milltown and Ranelagh) - Luas
Airport-northern tunnel portal-Sandyford - Metro
Sandyford-Brides Glen-(Bray) - Luas

So people will have to get off the Luas at Sandyford and get on the Metro and vice versa? A metro which then stops every couple hundred metres or so like the current LUAS. And in reality will not go much faster than the current LUAS. Or are we talking separate LUAS and Metro lines?

CatInABox

Shurimgreat wrote: »

So people will have to get off the Luas at Sandyford and get on the Metro and vice versa? A metro which then stops every couple hundred metres or so like the current LUAS. And in reality will not go much faster than the current LUAS. Or are we talking separate LUAS and Metro lines?

Yes, but given the frequency, people will probably have a 6 minute maximum wait for a Metro.

The Metro will also go faster through the city centre, not having to deal with pedestrians, vehicles and traffic lights.

yabadabado

Shurimgreat wrote: »

So people will have to get off the Luas at Sandyford and get on the Metro and vice versa? A metro which then stops every couple hundred metres or so like the current LUAS. And in reality will not go much faster than the current LUAS. Or are we talking separate LUAS and Metro lines?

A metro will be a lot faster than Luas and the stops won't be as close together. It will be all underground in CC which will make a huge difference.

Grandeeod

If this IT article is accurate, then I really despair.

The original proposed route of MN was under the Whitworth road/Cross Guns bridge area. The exact site proposed for a stop was under the old Smurfitt building. The RPA were planning Metro back then. It was pointed out to them that an Irish Rail station could be built at Glasnevin Junction to provide an interchange with existing routes, a reopened PPT route, the Docklands route and Metro. The O'Reilly report of 2004/5 recommended that this idea merited further investigation. Subsequently it turned out that for railway safety reasons an Irish Rail station couldn't be built at this location. Metro ended up being routed under Drumcondra station and an interchange would be provided there instead.

So I'm a bit concerned that this Metro link idea is taking us back beyond already discussed and debated route options. Not just on boards but at a much higher level too. The whole Tara Street thing was done to death too with ideas for underground walk ways towards OCS and Westmoreland street.

tom1ie

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Traffic counter data on the M1 J2 - J1 south bound (31/01 - 06/02) shows about 10000 cars between 6am - 9am on average. Even if you could remove 50% of these vehicles by introducing p+r, you would make a significant dent in city traffic volumes, while only using less than 12% of metro capacity (assuming 1.4 people per car).[/QUOTE

Going by the first two weeks of feb 7am and 8am cars count for 83% of vehicles on the m1 between j02 and j03. Thats 6773 cars!
The p+r will have to be very large indeed, between 6am and 10am the amount of cars using that stretch is 22564. If a p+r is to be built to take 50% of traffic off the m1 that’s 11282 parking spots. So let’s assume we have 1.4 people per car that’s now 11282x 1.4= 15794.8. /4= 3948.7 per hour.

So if Shane Ross and Tii decide 60m metros are sufficient, which I think was mentioned in the cost cutting measures, the capacity of the metros will be:
666 people on a 90m train.
So 666/90= 7.4
7.4 x 60= 444
2 minute frequency= 30 trains.
444x 30 = 13320 people capacity per hour. I’m not using crush capacity numbers as that’s not how a brand new system should work.

So total number of people at p+r per hour is 3948.7, total metro capacity is 13320 per hour, therefore there is a surplus capacity of 9371.3 per hour on the metro line.

So going on these numbers we there should have plenty of space on the metro for downstream users if a large p+r approx 11000 car park spaces is built.

What do ya think?

plodder

Grandeeod wrote: »

If this IT article is accurate, then I really despair.

The original proposed route of MN was under the Whitworth road/Cross Guns bridge area. The exact site proposed for a stop was under the old Smurfitt building. The RPA were planning Metro back then. It was pointed out to them that an Irish Rail station could be built at Glasnevin Junction to provide an interchange with existing routes, a reopened PPT route, the Docklands route and Metro. The O'Reilly report of 2004/5 recommended that this idea merited further investigation. Subsequently it turned out that for railway safety reasons an Irish Rail station couldn't be built at this location. Metro ended up being routed under Drumcondra station and an interchange would be provided there instead.

So I'm a bit concerned that this Metro link idea is taking us back beyond already discussed and debated route options. Not just on boards but at a much higher level too. The whole Tara Street thing was done to death too with ideas for underground walk ways towards OCS and Westmoreland street.

What was the nature of the railway safety reasons, do you know? Maybe, they are no longer applicable.

Shurimgreat

yabadabado wrote: »

A metro will be a lot faster than Luas and the stops won't be as close together. It will be all underground in CC which will make a huge difference.

Confused here. What about all the existing Luas stops between Sandyford and City Centre? Some of them are at most 200-300 metres apart. Are they to be bypassed by the Metro? If so the people on those existing stops will need cars to get to the other stops.

Grandeeod

plodder wrote: »

What was the nature of the railway safety reasons, do you know? Maybe, they are no longer applicable.

Something to do with building new stations on a curving line. It sounded like a load of nonsense. Worth actually checking it out as I'm going back 10 to 14 years with all this.

tobsey

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Confused here. What about all the existing Luas stops between Sandyford and City Centre? Some of them are at most 200-300 metres apart. Are they to be bypassed by the Metro? If so the people on those existing stops will need cars to get to the other stops.

South of Charlemont all of the stops are at least 500m apart, some of them nearly 1km.

plodder

Grandeeod wrote: »

Something to do with building new stations on a curving line. It sounded like a load of nonsense. Worth actually checking it out as I'm going back 10 to 14 years with all this.

I didn't want to be the first to say it

yabadabado

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Confused here. What about all the existing Luas stops between Sandyford and City Centre? Some of them are at most 200-300 metres apart. Are they to be bypassed by the Metro? If so the people on those existing stops will need cars to get to the other stops.

The metro will most likely take over Luas green line at Charlemont and would continue south on the line.
Metro is bigger capacity with more frequency.
Luas Green line would run Charlemont to Broombridge.

As for the last line PT isn't designed to drop users door to door.

Grandeeod

plodder wrote: »

I didn't want to be the first to say it

There was also a proposal to build an Irish Rail station behind the Porterhouse pub on the site of the original Glasnevin station.

Stephen Strange

tom1ie wrote: »

What do ya think?

I think its Ireland, so the P&R will have about 400 spaces...

marno21

Stephen Strange wrote: »

I think its Ireland, so the P&R will have about 400 spaces...

TII have said it will be a significant P&R. As network managers they know this is a rare opportunity to reduce traffic on the M1, and will utilise the opportunity accordingly

yabadabado

marno21 wrote: »

TII have said it will be a significant P&R. As network managers they know this is a rare opportunity to reduce traffic on the M1, and will utilise the opportunity accordingly

10k parking structure would be a huge opportunity to show that they are serious about PT and also making the M1 somewhat bearable.
What's the biggest pnr at the moment? 1000 places?

Stephen Strange

marno21 wrote: »

TII have said it will be a significant P&R. As network managers they know this is a rare opportunity to reduce traffic on the M1, and will utilise the opportunity accordingly

I hope that's the case, but I'll remain sceptical until I can park in a space there.

marno21

yabadabado wrote: »

10k parking structure would be a huge opportunity to show that they are serious about PT and also making the M1 somewhat bearable.
What's the biggest pnr at the moment? 1000 places?

There will be a natural reduction of traffic on the M1 on account of modal shift caused by the Metro in addition to the new connection opportunities at Tara Street with DART and Northern Line commuter rail

Brian CivilEng

I wouldn't take a reduction in traffic for granted, remember that before any of this happens there will be 10 years of traffic growth. Traffic is currently growing at around 3% per annum. If there are 10,000 cars in peak hour now, then that's 13,500 in 2027. The Metro will be doing well to convince 3,500 people out of their cars, just to bring us back to status quo.