Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Idbatterim

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Come again?

sorry I have corrected it.

marno21

The finer details of New Metro North haven't been revealed yet and as said that graphic is from 2015.

TII have said recently that their intentions are for a large scale P&R at the northern terminus just off the M1 and that the Metro will incorporate the segregated part of the Green Line. Neither of those are shown on the 2015 map.

New Metro North willl have a route published very shortly and will then go out to public consultation. It should be submitted to ABP in Q3 2019 with a start in 2021.

Idbatterim

marno21 wrote: »

The finer details of New Metro North haven't been revealed yet and as said that graphic is from 2015.

TII have said recently that their intentions are for a large scale P&R at the northern terminus just off the M1 and that the Metro will incorporate the segregated part of the Green Line. Neither of those are shown on the 2015 map.

New Metro North willl have a route published very shortly and will then go out to public consultation. It should be submitted to ABP in Q3 2019 with a start in 2021.

CAn they not speed that up? 2021? Christ!

Dr_Bill

Idbatterim wrote: »

CAn they not speed that up? 2021? Christ!

Not without having every man and their dog having their pound of flesh. If the process is ignored then all you need is someone to object and its off to the High Court which could really stall things.

Look at the Apple Data Centre that was due to be built in Galway, however due to our fantastic world class planning system it's now located in Denmark.

The same objectors also lodged a case an against a proposed data centre in Meath, so there ya have it!

Shn99

Idbatterim wrote: »

CAn they not speed that up? 2021? Christ!

Its Ireland!

yermanoffthetv

Can't post the Irish times link as its behind a paywall but it looks as if the penny might have dropped as the government are looking at ditching the at grade sections of NMN in favour of more underground running. You'd think theyd also see the sense of 90m+ trams also as its like a sardine can from Sandyford to SSG. At least there's a glimmer of hope common sense will prevail.

Idbatterim

fg are probably hoping the next recession comes along, that it cant be blamed on, like a really bad brexit, to bin it :rolleyes: its like the housing crisis, they cant be seen to be doing nothing, so just talk endlessly and mention vague dates in the future... The country is beyond laughable

when they ditched it for new metro north, my hope was and I said it at the time, that growth is far quicker than they anticipate and **** traffic hits the fan again, so that they would go with the original plan. As that is now out, at least if we have the second best result, that a few of the blatantly idiotic cost "reduction" measures, will probably be overturned. Another poster mentioned it in another thread, the **** show of luas cross city, could actually be a blessing, on a number of fronts!!!

Sam Russell

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Can't post the Irish times link as its behind a paywall but it looks as if the penny might have dropped as the government are looking at ditching the at grade sections of NMN in favour of more underground running. You'd think theyd also see the sense of 90m+ trams also as its like a sardine can from Sandyford to SSG. At least there's a glimmer of hope common sense will prevail.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/metro-north-plan-change-considered-by-government-1.3390016

There you go.

CatInABox

Here's a small excerpt from that article, which is probably the main thrust of the Dublin Metro part of it anyway. Looking forward to Friday, seems positive, hopefully it gets the go ahead and meets smooth sailing in the planning stages.

However, informed sources last night said that under the revised proposals more of the track could end up being subterranean. This comes amid controversy in Dublin over traffic issues arising from the new Luas cross-city line.

The change has been discussed at the highest levels of Government, although well-placed sources said the capital plan, which sets out intended infrastructure spending for the next decade, has not yet been finalised. It is due to be published on Friday.

Ministers have also examined increases in train capacity, such as ordering about 100 extra carriages for the Drogheda and Maynooth commuter lines, both of which are scheduled to be electrified as part of the expansion of the Dart system. Hybrid electric and diesel trains could be brought into service in advance of the electrification of the line.

There's also this humdinger down the bottom of the article:

Minister of State for the Office of Public Works Kevin ‘Boxer’ Moran said his hometown of Athlone would be designated “capital of the midlands” in the planning framework. He said he had personally intervened to ensure the designation.

Sweet Suffering Jaysus.

Colonel Claptrap

I can picture a tense cabinet meeting taking place in a stuffy room, sleeves rolled up, people mulling over maps and development plans and Kevin Boxer Moran scowling, standing in the corner cross armed, stamping his foot.

If you don't call it the capital of the Midlands I'm taking my vote and going home.

Idbatterim

laugable, I have a family holiday home just outside athlone. Capital of the midlands " the likes of the cherrywood development in Dublin alone, will likely have a bigger population than athlone! I just got the population from wikipedia, 21,609! cherrywood will be 30,000 with the new development. Irish glass bottle site 30,000. clonburris, 20,000 just to put things into perspective. Their attempt to stymy dublin wont succeed. Market forces are too strong...

It actually maybe helps to understand why government arent doing anything about density increases in dublin, it would result in more dublin td's... also local government here are only interested in keeping their seats, in the docklands etc if they built large amounts of housing, the votes will swing more from centre left or left, to centre...

vodkatime

Idbatterim wrote: »

CAn they not speed that up? 2021? Christ!

I am not sure people appreciate the amount of work involved in preparing for a submission to ABP, especially for a scheme of this size. At the moment, there would only be an outline design of the route. The new consultants will have to move that on and prepare a preliminary design which can then be assessed in terms of environmental impact, practical feasibility, construction impact, value for money etc.

Enough assessments has to be prepared to ensure the scheme can get though APB and to ensure it stand up to challenge by various action groups.

I imagine a new design and build contractor will then pick up the scheme after ABP give it the green light and prepare the detailed design.

3 years to start construction is actually quite ambitious and I imagine that assumes it does not get held up by legal challenge.

Idbatterim

vodkatime wrote: »

I am not sure people appreciate the amount of work involved in preparing for a submission to ABP, especially for a scheme of this size. At the moment, there would only be an outline design of the route. The new consultants will have to move that on and prepare a preliminary design which can then be assessed in terms of environmental impact, practical feasibility, construction impact, value for money etc.

Enough assessments has to be prepared to ensure the scheme can get though APB and to ensure it stand up to challenge by various action groups.

I imagine a new design and build contractor will then pick up the scheme after ABP give it the green light and prepare the detailed design.

3 years to start construction is actually quite ambitious and I imagine that assumes it does not get held up by legal challenge.

I understand the way it works with irish planning. The irish planning system needs changing, I believe FG are working on this. Also can they not tunnel 24 hours in some or all of the areas?

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

laugable, I have a family holiday home just outside athlone. Capital of the midlands " the likes of the cherrywood development in Dublin alone, will likely have a bigger population than athlone! I just got the population from wikipedia, 21,609! cherrywood will be 30,000 with the new development. Irish glass bottle site 30,000. clonburris, 20,000 just to put things into perspective. Their attempt to stymy dublin wont succeed. Market forces are too strong...

It actually maybe helps to understand why government arent doing anything about density increases in dublin, it would result in more dublin td's... also local government here are only interested in keeping their seats, in the docklands etc if they built large amounts of housing, the votes will swing more from centre left or left, to centre...

Local government in Dublin is already dominated by the left of centre, hence the paralysis in decision-making for the last half-decade.

There is no need for the planning to be so bloody slow. Get a route selected, use standard, "off-the-shelf" designs for stations and the like. Have some kind of preliminary planning sorted quickly, sort specifics later.

vodkatime

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no need for the planning to be so bloody slow. Get a route selected, use standard, "off-the-shelf" designs for stations and the like. Have some kind of preliminary planning sorted quickly, sort specifics later.

The planning process itself is not the issue here. The ABP hearing and the time they take to make a decision although not perfect is a pretty well defined process. The most time consuming part is preparing the preliminary design to ensure you have progressed the design sufficiently enough that you can define a red line boundary that won’t change at a later date when you get to detailed design as you would have to amend the planning application if the redline boundary changed.

It’s not as simple as just saying use standard station / tunnel design. The tunnel and stations are not the big issue as they do not get fixed until detailed design which comes after planning.

The preliminary design itself does not take that long. It’s the time for all of the consultants specialists to review the preliminary design, carry out their assessments, report on the potential impact of the scheme and identify potential mitigation that could be used to reduce the impact. A lot of this get covered in the environmental impact statement which is a huge document.

In most cases a large scheme like this gets challenged on their environmental / community impact so it takes quite a while to assess the impact, consult communities on the proposals and develop as much mitigation as possible.

marno21

Discussion on Metro North on Last Word/Today FM now.

BonnieSituation

I'm petrified. What chance it will be an intelligent knowledgeable conversation?

Idbatterim

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm petrified. What chance it will be an intelligent knowledgeable conversation?

non. What are the chances colm mccarthy will be on calling it a white elephant? you know, like the green line luas now. Where people travel in the other direction, before changing direction. to have a better of chance of getting on it!

In all seriousness, I dont think any of the usual idiots will be entertained, the way they might have been before. Thank you in particular, Luas Cross City!

Has athlone asked where their metro is yet?

BonnieSituation

I know it's a "devil's advocate" approach but even mentioning the Skytrain or elevated trains is just madness. The Loopline bridge is all one needs as a reason to never EVER consider this.

jd

Conor Faughnan was spoofing there about the route..

marno21

It was Conor Faughnan from the AA. And it was all bluff. No mention of Swords and all talk of it connecting to somewhere such as Pearse.

They could at least have someone from the NTA or TII on who actually knows what the project is.

Stephen15

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I know it's a "devil's advocate" approach but even mentioning the Skytrain or elevated trains is just madness. The Loopline bridge is all one needs as a reason to never EVER consider this.

More of Shelbyville idea

Conor1974

My brother is a planner for Luas/Mn and was telling me at the weekend that parts of it will be a sky train coming in at Lissenhall and down swords Main Street which will be made one way because they are looking at a fully automated tram and will end up at the estuary with a depot and park and ride.Deffo automated cause he has spent months visiting cities that have the same

Idbatterim

Conor1974 wrote: »

My brother is a planner for Luas/Mn and was telling me at the weekend that parts of it will be a sky train coming in at Lissenhall and down swords Main Street which will be made one way because they are looking at a fully automated tram and will end up at the estuary with a depot and park and ride.Deffo automated cause he has spent months visiting cities that have the same

makes sense, being automated, so it probably wont happen! it should though!

roadmaster

Idbatterim wrote: »

non. What are the chances colm mccarthy will be on calling it a white elephant? you know, like the green line luas now. Where people travel in the other direction, before changing direction. to have a better of chance of getting on it!

In all seriousness, I dont think any of the usual idiots will be entertained, the way they might have been before. Thank you in particular, Luas Cross City!

Has athlone asked where their metro is yet?

Why colm McCarthy never called out?

salmocab

I think a problem with MN is people think of it as a link from the airport to the city with a few other stops thrown in instead of it being the opposite, I also think lots of people don’t realize how big swords is.
When dealing with politicians voter perception is all.

511

Dr_Bill wrote: »

Not without having every man and their dog having their pound of flesh. If the process is ignored then all you need is someone to object and its off to the High Court which could really stall things.

Look at the Apple Data Centre that was due to be built in Galway, however due to our fantastic world class planning system it's now located in Denmark.

The same objectors also lodged a case an against a proposed data centre in Meath, so there ya have it!

From what I heard, that Apple data center consumes more electricity than we produce and provides few jobs in return. An 8.2% increase in electricity consumption is the figure here: http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-data-centre-could-increase-irelands-electricity-consumption-by-82-2016-4

bk

511 wrote: »

From what I heard, that Apple data center consumes more electricity than we produce and provides few jobs in return. An 8.2% increase in electricity consumption is the figure here: http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-data-centre-could-increase-irelands-electricity-consumption-by-82-2016-4

Irelands energy consumption peaked in 2008 and has been falling ever since and we have been closing power plants. Even with an 8.2% increase it still wouldn't hit the 2008 peak.

And also, I don't get why people think this is a problem. Apple will be paying for that power, so what is the big deal? Why is is a problem?

Specially since Apple seem to want to purchase that power from only renewable sources.

Consonata

blanch152 wrote:

Local government in Dublin is already dominated by the left of centre, hence the paralysis in decision-making for the last half-decade.

The centre-left doesn't have a monopoly on political inaction. If that were true, FF and FG wouldn't have been hoofing this particular can down the road for the last 25 years.