Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

patrickbrophy18

I don't see how a few small businesses should be allowed to jeopardize one of the most important construction projects in the history of our state. DART Underground and Metro North will be will be the icing on the cake when it comes to transport integration. In other words, it will be fundamental in the integration of all transport modes. Essentially, the end result will be as follows:

1. Maynooth and Dunboyne will share a DART line that will go all the way to Bray or Greystones at a very high frequency.
2. Celbridge and Hazelhatch will share the second DART line to Howth or Balbriggin. Again, this will be operated at a very high frequency.
3. Swords and the Airport will have a far superior mode of transport into Dublin City. As this line will mostly be cut and cover, it will be seperated entirely from ground level transport allowing for much faster access to the city.

These railway lines will be additional to the existing two Luas lines. Points 1 and 2 illustrate the importance of seperating the existing DART line into two parts. Assuming that a considerably larger commuting public will have made the switch to public transport, this should take a huge amount of traffic congestion from the city. The long-term benefits will far outweigh the shorter term cons that are being foreseen by various business groups in the vacinity of Saint Stephen's Green.

With all of that said, one of the major disadvantages to the existence of the new railway lines will be that Dublin Bus will more than likely have to cease or at least cut back on the routes which currently ran parallel to future railway lines of which there are a lot. However, all is not lost with this in mind. If buses are de-commissioned from certain routes, they could easily be re-allocated to introduce a number of orbital routes.

Anyway back to the main topic. Metro North and DART Underground should go ahead regardless of these NIMBY's.

murphaph

Why does the paper of record print this garbage?

Seriously anyway, who gives a fcuk about the likes of Noelle Campbell effing Sharpe and her poxy gallery. Notice however that despite their best efforts at closing her down, the RPA failed (worse luck IMO!).

spacetweek

Can Carroll's be dropped into the hole being dug in Stephen's Green please?

Victor

murphaph wrote: »

Why does the paper of record print this garbage?

Because Noelle Campbell Sharpe is in the PR business?

L1011

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

Does that mean they will install tracks from St. Stephen´s to O´Connell? Where will they get the funding to install these tracks?

I would assume IE would be required to lay the tracks when reinstating the surface. This happened when a road was built across the path of the then only planned Citywest extension.

Cool Mo D

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

Does that mean they will install tracks from St. Stephen´s to O´Connell? Where will they get the funding to install these tracks?

There is also a growing opposition against the use of overhead lines through these areas. Depending on APB´s rulling, these tracks may have to use APS, which is hugely expensive and not always reliable, and may make line BXD unviable altogether due to cost.

It's not expensive at all to install the tracks if you'll be moving all the utilities and ripping up the road anyway - as they will be. Especially if the overhead wires come later.

DWCommuter

Regardless of these daft as a brush objectors, lets get back to the real business. The RPA are saying that enabling works are set to go in April 2011 if ABP give a green light.

So being the negative sort that I am (but its based on well thought out research and not done for the sake of it) will ABP be "nobbled" and come up with a "problem" or will the Government "delay" the enabling works if ABP green light the project?

Interesting times ahead over the next 6 months. The chickens have come home to roost. It finally approaching "put up or shut up time".

My money is on things not going according to plan.;)

dynamick

Why would the government delay the project now? - it's not going to cost them anything for a while - not till the next lot are in.

xper

DWCommuter wrote: »

So being the negative sort that I am (but its based on well thought out research and not done for the sake of it) will ABP be "nobbled" and come up with a "problem" or will the Government "delay" the enabling works if ABP green light the project?

Surely the enabling works are a tiny proportion of the total project budget. If it is all a game of smoke and mirrors as you suggest and the government are trying to make sure that it appears to be going ahead for now so that the finger pointing can commence when FG/Lab kill the project, then that is most easily achieved by carrying out the enbling work, maybe delaying the contract signings a little and they'll definitely be in oppostion by the time the real work is supposed to get underway.

xper

murphaph wrote: »

Why does the paper of record print this garbage?

I wonder is it actually a subtle undermining of the NIMBY arguement. Let's have a look at who we have lined up as the opponents of this major development:

- the owners of an expensive hang out for bankers and lawyers

- the owner of a gallery that survived the Luas building works*

- a peddler of plastic crap with 200 minimum wage jobs, some of which are located near a site that will, when operational, deliver thousands of people a day right past his door

- someone who's a bit worried about her business but actually sees the big picture and does not want the project stopped

Can't see that garnering too much support.


* Note the LUAS works were all on th surface and so spread out across large dsitances. The underground nature of the Metro/uDART measn the construction areas will be more localised.

GizAGoOfYerGee

xper wrote: »

a peddler of plastic crap with 200 minimum wage jobs

OurLadyofKnock

Usually when business people start organising against something like Metro North you can be sure that one of the following applies:

A) Their Business is in Trouble and they Need an Excuse

Their taxes are not in order and they need a diversion


We saw this kind of thing with the Luas.

Empire o de Sun

It reminds me of a childrens book about a hen who wanted help baking some bread, but no one would help her, and were just annoyed with her asking for help to get it made and baked.

At the end when it was baked they all wanted some.

The same was with Luas, loads of Businesses objected, so they weren't joined together, but now they would like a Luas stop near them but without the construction.

Sorry, it's just my favourite story.:D

markpb

DWCommuter wrote: »

So being the negative sort that I am (but its based on well thought out research and not done for the sake of it) will ABP be "nobbled" and come up with a "problem" or will the Government "delay" the enabling works if ABP green light the project

Don't the projects still require a ministerial order after ABP has approved the plans? There's your delay right there - it'll go to the minister, go nowhere, when questions are asked he will say he's sending it to a consultant for review to make sure it's appropriate / a good idea in the current economic climate. Once that comes back, that will go to the minister for review, then an inter-departmental subcommittee will be set up to evaluate it again.

Doesn't anyone watch Yes, Minister?

lods

markpb wrote: »

Don't the projects still require a ministerial order after ABP has approved the plans? There's your delay right there - it'll go to the minister, go nowhere, when questions are asked he will say he's sending it to a consultant for review to make sure it's appropriate / a good idea in the current economic climate. Once that comes back, that will go to the minister for review, then an inter-departmental subcommittee will be set up to evaluate it again.

Doesn't anyone watch Yes, Minister?

A committee is a cul-de-sac into which ideas are lead and then quietly strangled.;)

DWCommuter

markpb wrote: »

Don't the projects still require a ministerial order after ABP has approved the plans? There's your delay right there - it'll go to the minister, go nowhere, when questions are asked he will say he's sending it to a consultant for review to make sure it's appropriate / a good idea in the current economic climate. Once that comes back, that will go to the minister for review, then an inter-departmental subcommittee will be set up to evaluate it again.

Doesn't anyone watch Yes, Minister?

Yup, the Government have to provide the go ahead and I'd also be interested in knowing if the PPP covers the cost of the enabling works? From reading the various documents, it appears that the PPP is to just build the infrastructure. I think its is a bit naieve of people to think there is no considerable and upfront cost to the state re MN despite it being a PPP.

I'm all for it. What the hell. It got this far. Just build it. However if the Government have to stump up money in 2011, (which I think they do) then I predict a delay.

Propellerhead

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Usually when business people start organising against something like Metro North you can be sure that one of the following applies:

A) Their Business is in Trouble and they Need an Excuse

Their taxes are not in order and they need a diversion


We saw this kind of thing with the Luas.

Heaven forbid that any of those fine upright citizens would be in anything resembling said pickles

Empire o de Sun

To give some people an Idea of the disruption caused by the construction of a metro station. here is Brandenburger Tor U-Bahn (Brandenburg Gate) station under construction in Berlin on Google Maps. It is part of U-Bahn line U55, and will eventually be (well that's the plan) part of line U5.

http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Stra%C3%9Fe+des+17.+Juni,+Berlin&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=15.627053,46.538086&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Stra%C3%9Fe+des+17.+Juni,+Berlin&ll=52.5164,13.381096&spn=0.001848,0.005681&t=k&z=18

Propellerhead

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

To give some people an Idea of the disruption caused by the construction of a metro station. here is Brandenburger Tor U-Bahn (Brandenburg Gate) station under construction in Berlin on Google Maps. It is part of U-Bahn line U55, and will eventually be (well that's the plan) part of line U5.

http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Stra%C3%9Fe+des+17.+Juni,+Berlin&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=15.627053,46.538086&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Stra%C3%9Fe+des+17.+Juni,+Berlin&ll=52.5164,13.381096&spn=0.001848,0.005681&t=k&z=18

I wonder was the late 1990s campaign to build an underground instead of Luas a spoof to delay constructing urban rail beyond the point of getting funding from the EU? To believe the coverage by some media commentators at the time readers were led to believe that somehow by unseen moles an underground could be constructed with little or no onstreet disruption.

murphaph

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

To give some people an Idea of the disruption caused by the construction of a metro station. here is Brandenburger Tor U-Bahn (Brandenburg Gate) station under construction in Berlin on Google Maps. It is part of U-Bahn line U55, and will eventually be (well that's the plan) part of line U5.

http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Stra%C3%9Fe+des+17.+Juni,+Berlin&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=15.627053,46.538086&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Stra%C3%9Fe+des+17.+Juni,+Berlin&ll=52.5164,13.381096&spn=0.001848,0.005681&t=k&z=18

...and the street it's built on (Unter den Linden) is the Berlin equivalent of O'Connell Street.

eia340600

Dear god!!A building site in a city!?!?Somebody, please, stop the madness..

tharlear

oh my god the trees in the park will surely die. They will destroy all those wonderfull parks. Oh wait they were all destroyed before (60 years ago) and do you believe both the trees and the grass grew back!!


Aside
Amazing the number of parks in that one area.

lods

Gilmore says Labour would push back Metro North

In an interview with Marian Finucane this morning on RTE Radio 1 Labour party leader Eamon Gilmore was asked if he would cancel Metro North.

In his reply he said Labour in government would make substantial changes to the National Development Plan, which include Metro North being pushed back.

DWCommuter

lods wrote: »

Gilmore says Labour would push back Metro North

In an interview with Marian Finucane this morning on RTE Radio 1 Labour party leader Eamon Gilmore was asked if he would cancel Metro North.

In his reply he said Labour in government would make substantial changes to the National Development Plan, which include Metro North being pushed back.

And our friend Mr McCarthy recommended a deferral yesterday.

Amtmann

FG to the rescue...

A frontbench Fine Gael TD has rounded on Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore over comments he made about the Metro North project.

Mr Gilmore this morning said that if in power Labour would redo the National Development plan and “prioritise those projects likely to create the most jobs”.

“Metro North would be shot back,” he told Marian Finucane on RTE Radio.

Fine Gael health spokesman Dr James Reilly, a Dublin North TD, said Mr Gilmore had shown a “negative attitude” to the project which he sees as a “key transport and jobs initiative”.

Dr Reilly said the project, work on which is expected to begin in April, would generate 37,000 jobs.

“The Labour Party’s attitude shocks me,” he said.

“They claim they will invest in jobs and critical infrastructure, but…Eamonn GIlmore said he would push back the Metro North project…Now is the time to invest in jobs in Dublin North.”

The Government in July announced it would allocate some €5.7 billion for transport projects including the Metro North and Dart Underground as part of the Infrastructure Investment Priorities 2010-2016.

The Railway Procurement Agency this week said work on the long-awaited line from St Stephen’s Green to Dublin airport and north Co Dublin will begin in April.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1002/breaking27.html

lods

Furet wrote: »

FG to the rescue...


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1002/breaking27.html

Not really . The Dublin north FG TD wants it or rather wants the votes

Zebra3

I thought Kenny/FG were against MN?

lods

Zebra3 wrote: »

I thought Kenny/FG were against MN?

They are , but O'Reilly can't say that . No one else from FG came out yesterday . Silence was deafening . O'Reilly just looking for votes in Dublin north

sdanseo

lods wrote: »

They are , but O'Reilly can't say that . No one else from FG came out yesterday . Silence was deafening . O'Reilly just looking for votes in Dublin north

If he can sway the party line on the matter, he'll get mine.

patrickbrophy18

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

It reminds me of a childrens book about a hen who wanted help baking some bread, but no one would help her, and were just annoyed with her asking for help to get it made and baked.

At the end when it was baked they all wanted some.

The same was with Luas, loads of Businesses objected, so they weren't joined together, but now they would like a Luas stop near them but without the construction.

Sorry, it's just my favourite story.:D

Good analogy alright. It illustrates exactly how people in this country are too fussy when it comes to large scale developments and are so reluctant to embrace change. It is exactly this reason that our country has failed to fulfill it's true potential. I will list a few previously proposed developments that would have installed people with more confidence in this country in this economic recession:

1. In the 1980's, the DART system was originally planned for Howth, Bray AND Maynooth. Political meddling caused the latter to be ommitted. No doubt some NIMBY's were responsible.
2. In the early 2000's, a massive theme park was proposed for a spot in North Dublin. It was rejected by means of local NIMBY's who only saw the negative side of the development. This not only re-enforces the fact that we are a pesemistic nation but it also makes us appear simple minded to countries that actual do fulfill their potential. Nevermind the employment opportunities that went out the window with it. This is an embarrassment to people like myself who want to see progress and see the nation as a creative and prosperous one. While the figures proposed were unrealistic, it at least deserved to be given more consideration and time to improve on the proposal.
3. A development which would triple the population of Enniscorthy. This would more than likely have generated demand for more rail services and more investment into the communities along the rail corridor. It was rejected because it was considered out of character with the surrounding environment. Again, potential success is thrown away on account of typical Irish NIMBY-ism.