Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

oharach

Aard wrote: »

I think the prevailing thought is that the only place on the Green line where a tunnel could surface would be around Beechwood. Ranelagh is on a bridge, as is Milltown and Dundrum.

Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long Luas services would be disrupted for a full upgrade to Metro? I imagine the time constraining factor would be the Beechwood tunnel portal.

Am I right in thinking they could construct all of the tunnel up to just short of Beechwood without disrupting current services? SSG to at least Charlemont will be on a completely different alignment from the Luas, given the positioning of SSG metro station.

Aard

When/if BXD goes ahead, it would be possible to run trams from Beechwood to Broombridge. The southern part would be out of action for a while, while it's being joined to the tunnel metro.

This is all pie in the sky though: some people on this forum have pointed out in the past that from the way the construction happened on the Green line, there never was any real plan for a metro-upgrade.

Van.Bosch

So with 8 days until the planners decide whether to grant planning permission or not - what is everyone expecting?A Delayed decision?Granting of the Railway Order?

dynamick

conditional grant

D.L.R.

Aard wrote: »

some people on this forum have pointed out in the past that from the way the construction happened on the Green line, there never was any real plan for a metro-upgrade.

...even though that was one of its selling points. bleedin con artists ru(i)nnin this country!

Highly Salami

dynamick wrote: »

conditional grant

conditional on what?

dynamick

big long list of minor modifications and stuff about not making too much disturbance during construction, agreeing details of surface treatments etc. I'll be very happy once the contract is signed off.

davebuck

Van.Bosch wrote: »

So with 8 days until the planners decide whether to grant planning permission or not - what is everyone expecting?A Delayed decision?Granting of the Railway Order?

Are you expecting ABP to announce their decision on time,that would be a first try September/October

Van.Bosch

davebuck wrote: »

Are you expecting ABP to announce their decision on time,that would be a first try September/October

Well they have had it about 2 years so I don't think July 30th would be classes as on time but alas you may be right...

Son of Stupido

Aard wrote: »

This is all pie in the sky though: some people on this forum have pointed out in the past that from the way the construction happened on the Green line, there never was any real plan for a metro-upgrade.

Sorry dude your wrong.

Trawl through the constraint and route selection reports and you will see it was always the long term plan, as was a branch line to terenure/tallaght.

The loop at St Stephens Green rises above the level of the track to allow an extension.

The idea that the green line construction precluded joining to the metro is a myth.

Find out for yourself!

www.dublinmetronorth.ie

DWCommuter

Son of Stupido wrote: »

Sorry dude your wrong.

Trawl through the constraint and route selection reports and you will see it was always the long term plan, as was a branch line to terenure/tallaght.

The loop at St Stephens Green rises above the level of the track to allow an extension.

The idea that the green line construction precluded joining to the metro is a myth.

Find out for yourself!

www.dublinmetronorth.ie

I don't think its a myth at all. While the distance between running lines on the Green line was based on larger metro vehicles, very little thought or provision was given to how the line would get underground.

It was a political ruse and compromise to get the project moving after the FF Government of '97 delayed it unnecessarily.

BluntGuy

Replying to a post from the "Tender Watch" thread.

---

spacetweek wrote: »

Please don't play it down unnecessarily like that. Money doesn't need to be found. MN will be paid for from 2016 onwards by which time the recession will be a distant memory.
Also I was under the impression the main works were starting in 2011 not 2012.

I'm not downplaying anything unnecessarily.

And I wasn't talking about the government finding money, I was talking about the selected consortium. The PPP markets are hostile at the moment, it is not the magic solution the government likes to paint it as. All the PPP projects are uncertain. You just have to hope things work out favourably.

The main works are currently scheduled to begin in 2012 as far as I know. Should the railway order be granted the enabling works will require at least a year to complete (scheduled to begin next year) and process of finalising a contractor will continue well into next year. Whether or not there is a financial close on the contract by the end of 2011 comes down to government committment and PPP finance availability.

Aard

Son of Stupido wrote: »

Sorry dude your wrong.

Trawl through the constraint and route selection reports and you will see it was always the long term plan, as was a branch line to terenure/tallaght.

The loop at St Stephens Green rises above the level of the track to allow an extension.

The idea that the green line construction precluded joining to the metro is a myth.

Find out for yourself!

www.dublinmetronorth.ie

I wasn't talking about the construction/route of the MN - I was talking about the current Green Line. MN looks like it's planned to go onwards toward Terenure. OTOH, if it was to connect to the Green Line, the only place it could is around Beechwood. Building a tunnel would mean severing the link between south of Beechwood and the city centre for a long time. It would be political suicide to sanction such an upheaval after a relatively short space of time in service.

I'm not going to go trawling through that website; if you can provide me with a link where it explicitly states the where and how a link-up will be made, I will gladly read it.

murphaph

Personally I think if the Green Line is ever extended as line BXD out to Finglas, then there's no real need for a link up, so long as Metro North continues "somewhere" useful south west of Stephen's Green: view it like another DART X shape with the Green being the crossing point, so long as trams/trains are frequent enough, changing from one toi the other is not a problem.

dowlingm

If Metro North is extended it should be towards Harolds Cross and progressively south, a few stations every few years, to Terenure, Templeogue and Tallaght. The disruption caused by severing the Green line to construct the portal to MN would be unconscionable, even if the current metro/interconnector station layout plan would permit a reasonable gradient to a Green Line join, which I doubt.

dynamick

With BXD planned to run from SSG to Broombridge there is no chance of MN joining to the Green line. An extension through Rathmines, Rathgar, Terenure, Templeogue, Tallaght looks more likely.

Typewriter

You know for the enabling works some statues and sculptures will be taken down (such as fullers arch and the O Connell monument)

Is the spire been taken down too???

I hope not I for one love the spire but I know a lot of people hate it and I'd be afraid that it wouldn't be reinstated.

Son of Stupido

No

FreudianSlippers

This has probably already been discussed, but why bother taking down the statues? Will there really be that much vibration caused by the tunnelling that the statues could be damaged?

Son of Stupido

OisinT wrote: »

This has probably already been discussed, but why bother taking down the statues? Will there really be that much vibration caused by the tunnelling that the statues could be damaged?

ONly the statues currently on the footprint of the stations will be moved. Its nothing to do with vibration. The tunnels will be bored but the stations will be cut and cover

FreudianSlippers

Son of Stupido wrote: »

ONly the statues currently on the footprint of the stations will be moved. Its nothing to do with vibration. The tunnels will be bored but the stations will be cut and cover

Oh, that makes sense... didn't even think of that!

Van.Bosch

Any word on if ABP are still scheduled to announce their decision tomorrow?

BluntGuy

I'm not sure it'll be announced tommorow. Might have to wait until mid-August for the planning inspector's report.

BluntGuy

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thinktank-challenges-euro5bn-metro-north-plan-2280577.html

I'm hardly the most passionate supporter of Metro North, but this is incredibly poor quality criticism:

The Metro North will run from St Stephen's Green to Dublin Airport and will continue on through north Dublin suburbs for an additional 7km. Although Swords is densely populated, other areas served -- Fosterstown, Estuary, Seatown and Lissenhall -- are not.

With the cost working out at €277m per kilometre, adding up to the €5bn estimate of the project, that section alone could cost €1.9bn.

I'm all for analysis of the project, but not to be pumping out rubbish like this.

A letter from the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0802/1224276042062.html

dynamick

Allowing Frank McDonald and others to keep repeating that the Metro will cost 5 or 6 billion is helping the project promoters. When the final bid comes in and it's closer to 2 billion, everyone will be surprised at how little it's costing.

jd

BluntGuy wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thinktank-challenges-euro5bn-metro-north-plan-2280577.html

I'm hardly the most passionate supporter of Metro North, but this is incredibly poor quality criticism:



I'm all for analysis of the project, but not to be pumping out rubbish like this.

A letter from the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0802/1224276042062.html

Worst part of the letter is where he says the Dart Underground is a waste of money because the Phoenix Park tunnel could do the same thing...

murphaph

Idiotic maths:

With the cost working out at €277m per kilometre, adding up to the €5bn estimate of the project, that section alone could cost €1.9bn.

It's precisely because the very northern end (not a long distance by any stretch of the imagination) will run through farmland that it will be so cheap to extend to meet the M1 and provide a large scale P&R facility there (with the future possibility of extension to Donabate DART station).

I wonder do these transport economists who always insist Dublin is special and can "make do" with buses all avoid using metro systems in other European cities when they are on holiday?

dubhthach

murphaph wrote: »

I wonder do these transport economists who always insist Dublin is special and can "make do" with buses all avoid using metro systems in other European cities when they are on holiday?

They also show the incredible "short-sightness" that is present throughout Irish Society. If you think of the railway line from Pearse to Dun Laoghaire. It's almost 170years old at this stage. No doubt there were people at the time saying that Dublin could make do with couple turnpikes and express horse carriages. :rolleyes:

A project like Metro North will be used for rail transport for at least the next 100years if not alot longer. However politicians and the like in this country only think in terms of 4-5year periods (eg. the next election). It's no wonder we have so many issues as no one thinks about the medium term let alone the long term.

paulm17781

dubhthach wrote: »

A project like Metro North will be used for rail transport for at least the next 100years if not alot longer. However politicians and the like in this country only think in terms of 4-5year periods (eg. the next election). It's no wonder we have so many issues as no one thinks about the medium term let alone the long term.

It's not about serving the country, it's about keeping your seat. It's the sad state of Irish politics.

ilovegermany

Anybody heard anything on a date for the decision from An Bord Pleanala?