Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Consonata

Would it be too hopeful to expect Metro North be done by 2026?

Idbatterim

Surely around the airport etc, tunnelling would be 24/7?

jamo2oo9

Consonata wrote: »

Would it be too hopeful to expect Metro North be done by 2026?

I would highly doubt it if they even managed to get it going that early. If the ground was broken right now, having it open by 2027 would be rather hopeful. We aren't exactly known for efficiency to anything really.

marno21

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

I would highly doubt it if they even managed to get it going that early. If the ground was broken right now, having it open by 2027 would be rather hopeful. We aren't exactly known for efficiency to anything really.

Here New Metro North is scheduled to begin in 2021 and finish in 2026/7. If proper Metro North started in 2018 it would comfortably be open for 2024/5 let alone 2026.

wakka12

Adding a few luas stops to an existing line took four years to do. I highly doubt a massive tunnelling project beneath the entire city would be possible in 6 then

Consonata

marno21 wrote: »

Here New Metro North is scheduled to begin in 2021 and finish in 2026/7. If proper Metro North started in 2018 it would comfortably be open for 2024/5 let alone 2026.

I would love that to be the case, but given the political instability and strikes, I doubt we seen ground broken in 2018.

Peregrine

wakka12 wrote: »

Adding a few luas stops to an existing line took four years to do. I highly doubt a massive tunnelling project beneath the entire city would be possible in 6 then

Building a tram line right through the middle of a city is an extremely disruptive and time-consuming project. Calling it "adding a few stops" is ridiculous.

Cross City and MN are two completely different projects using completely different methods. There's very little to be learned from comparing the two.

If a government gives the go ahead and the money is there, it can be done within the schedule proposed.

Consonata

Peregrine wrote: »

Building a tram line right through the middle of a city is an extremely disruptive and time-consuming project. Calling it "adding a few stops" is ridiculous.

Cross City and MN are two completely different projects using completely different methods. There's very little to be learned from comparing the two.

If a government gives the go ahead and the money is there, it can be done within the schedule proposed.

Agreed, the Port Tunnel would be a more apt comparison than the BXD line, and even then there are some key differences.

MJohnston

wakka12 wrote: »

Adding a few luas stops to an existing line took four years to do. I highly doubt a massive tunnelling project beneath the entire city would be possible in 6 then

Luas Cross City, barring any very last minute delays at this point, is almost exactly on original schedule, maybe even a little bit ahead. Metro North would probably be an easier process, to be honest, although a good big larger in scope.

Consonata

If I thought Ross had a spine, I would've said we could see work begin on MN in 2018, but I'd imagine there will be a cabinet reshuffle before then.

1huge1

Consonata wrote: »

Agreed, the Port Tunnel would be a more apt comparison than the BXD line, and even then there are some key differences.

The Dublin Port tunnel opened 23 months behind schedule IIRC.

LeinsterDub

Consonata wrote: »

If I thought Ross had a spine, I would've said we could see work begin on MN in 2018, but I'd imagine there will be a cabinet reshuffle before then.

Ross hates public transport nearly more than he hates cycling

LeinsterDub

wakka12 wrote: »

Adding a few luas stops to an existing line took four years to do. I highly doubt a massive tunnelling project beneath the entire city would be possible in 6 then

Going underground by passes alot issue. Such as basement infills, heritage works, maintaining access public safety, traffic management

cgcsb

wakka12 wrote: »

Adding a few luas stops to an existing line took four years to do. I highly doubt a massive tunnelling project beneath the entire city would be possible in 6 then

Luas cross city is a surface tram route built in confined areas while maintaining access through and around work areas, organisationally a much more complicated project.

Dr_Bill

Idbatterim wrote: »

Surely around the airport etc, tunnelling would be 24/7?

Ideally the project would be tunnelling 24/7, the Dublin Port Tunnel was restricted during construction to work between 06:00 to 23:00. 
People would object to the noise which would affect them for 1-2 weeks while the TBM passes them so no doubt or politicians will get that sorted to ensure that 24/7 tunnelling doesn't happen. 
Don't worry thou, the cost of the project will be covered by increases in construction costs which will be picked up by the taxpayer so a couple of voters can sleep easy in their beds at night for an inconvenience that would last a short period of time.

Idbatterim

I know the way things work here. 6-11 might be about it in residential areas. But in terms of once you leave residential territory, it could and should be 24 hrs day ...

Muahahaha

If it ever did go ahead how long might the disruption be in the city centre? Would it continue for the entire 6-7 years of construction or only for 2-3 while the TBM passing through and stations and connecting infrastructure are built?

I wonder too how they would handle moving all the earth that gets dug out. Would this be transported out to the airport end and onwards from there?

Consonata

Muahahaha wrote: »

If it ever did go ahead how long might the disruption be in the city centre? Would it continue for the entire 6-7 years of construction or only for 2-3 while the TBM passing through and stations and connecting infrastructure are built?

I wonder too how they would handle moving all the earth that gets dug out. Would this be transported out to the airport end and onwards from there?

2-3 when the TBM passes through, I'd imagine it would get significantly quieter when they are just laying track and doing brickwork and that

I'd say it will be taken out the airport end, might sell it or use it for sea barriers.

Idbatterim

laughable that metro inferior, will now likely be more expensive (due to inflation) that if they just went with the proper solution now! The level of incapability here is staggering!

Consonata

I thought they had decided to abandon Metro Inferior and just go with the old plans for 2018/2021, or whenever its due to start.

Middle Man

Deedsie wrote: »

Regrettably no.

Only in Ireland! :mad:

MJohnston

Deedsie wrote: »

Regrettably no.

That's not *quite* true. The 2021 plan is currently the official plan of this government and would be the inferior New Metro North.

However, the rumours of it being pushed up ahead of that to start asap, would probably require the use of the original Metro North plans and permissions, rather than starting anew.

So it really depends on when this goes ahead as to exactly what we might get.

Consonata

MJohnston wrote: »

That's not *quite* true. The 2021 plan is currently the official plan of this government and would be the inferior New Metro North.

However, the rumours of it being pushed up ahead of that to start asap, would probably require the use of the original Metro North plans and permissions, rather than starting anew.

So it really depends on when this goes ahead as to exactly what we might get.

Praying that they just do this thing right, and don't try to cut corners with the inferior version.

marno21

Shane Ross was asked about tackling congestion on the M25 and the Greater Dublin Area.

Shane Ross wrote:

The Strategy does not include the implementation of the Leinster Outer Orbital during its lifetime. Other large scale projects proposed in the Strategy include the DART Expansion Programme, New Metro North, and various other light rail projects. However, as the Deputy correctly notes, it will not be possible to deliver these projects in the short to medium term due to planning and design requirements as well as the significant capital requirements. Therefore, the only option to tackle congestion in the short to medium term is to radically improve the bus system to deliver a step change in performance across the GDA and to complement that improved public transport system with a network of park and ride sites.

I must highlight that already planned projects for the period 2015-2018 which include Luas Cross City, the Phoenix Park Tunnel, additional bus fleet and bus lane infrastructure, small scale interventions on the M50 and numerous other measures will go some way to addressing growing travel demand. However, we must look to a greatly strengthened bus system as the basis for tackling congestion. This requires a step-change in funding and I will be making a strong case for increased public transport investment as part of the Mid-Term Review of the Government's Capital Plan..

Absolutely sickening that this is the level we're operating at.

marno21

In other news, this is the current timeline:

The National Transport Authority (NTA) has statutory responsibility for the development of public transport infrastructure in the Greater Dublin Area (GDA), including the new Metro North project. Funding for the project is provided under the Government's Capital Plan, allowing initially for the planning and design phases of the project, followed by the construction phase which is expected to commence in 2021 with a view to delivering the project by 2026/2027. The NTA and Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) have commenced preparatory work on the planning and design of new Metro North and a dedicated project Steering Group has been established which is meeting on a regular basis. The NTA, in collaboration with TII, is undertaking an option analysis and selection study of possible metro alignments and station locations. Arising from this work a final route and station configuration will be established. It is my understanding that the NTA and TII expect that this process will be complete by the end of 2017, after which a public consultation process will be undertaken in 2018.

Bray Head

A greatly strengthened bus system basically means the state purchasing more buses for Dublin Bus to use inefficiently with pay-the-driver, no use of middle doors and overly frequent stops.

marno21

Bray Head wrote: »

A greatly strengthened bus system basically means the state purchasing more buses for Dublin Bus to use inefficiently with pay-the-driver, no use of middle doors and overly frequent stops.

Sure isn't it great, we're saving a couple of hundred million on a high frequency rapid transit system to Swords, delaying it by several years so we can spend money on a stopgap bus rapid transit system to Swords.

Joined up thinking!!

MJohnston

Do buses mean more jobs figures or something for governments to tout? Because I genuinely can't think of any other reason why they'd waste money on more bus systems when it's pretty clear that too many Dubliners don't consider them to provide high enough quality of transport.

marno21

MJohnston wrote: »

Do buses mean more jobs figures or something for governments to tout? Because I genuinely can't think of any other reason why they'd waste money on more bus systems when it's pretty clear that too many Dubliners don't consider them to provide high enough quality of transport.

Perhaps because the man in charge of the Department of Transport has no clue what his department does or needs to do. Completely and utterly shamefully incompetent.

Perhaps instead of planning to expand a bus network on unsuitable roads that'll never deliver what's required he might look at the fact that the buses aren't actually running at the minute? (I won't go down this road any further because it's off topic)

Not sure why there's so little interest in Metro North or heavy rail expansion considering the capacity enhancements. Maybe things'll change in the next government.

Peregrine

MJohnston wrote: »

Do buses mean more jobs figures or something for governments to tout? Because I genuinely can't think of any other reason why they'd waste money on more bus systems when it's pretty clear that too many Dubliners don't consider them to provide high enough quality of transport.

Shane Ross took the 44 once and liked it.

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/banter/trending/transport-minister-returns-to-work-with-bizarre-bus-selfie-and-twitter-is-not-impressed-35337736.html