Ferguson Ariva HD Combo

johndoc

Very limited info out there for this box. Any users views or contributions appreciated……. Just got one and getting to know my way around.









From .www.ferguson-digital.eu

• Receives satellite and terrestrial High Definition channels
• USB PVR function with TimeShift
• PAL upscaling up to 720p & 1080i resolution
• Dolby Digital surround audio
• Card reader for pay TV and 2 Common Interfaces
• Supports timers
• Favorite channel groups, TV and radio
• Electronic Program Guide (EPG)
• QuickFind function
• Supports Teletext and Subtitles
• Multilanguage menu (OSD)
• Pre-programmed channel list
• DiSEqC 1.0 and USALS support
• MPEG-2, MPEG-4, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 support
• Fully compliant with DVB-T, DVB-S and DVB-S2
• Alphanumeric VFD display (8 characters)
• Software upgrade via USB port
• High Definition menu (HD OSD)
• Audio files player
• Photo viewer

Connectors:

• HDMI with HDCP
• USB 2.0
• Component (Y, Pb, Pr)
• 2x SCART
• CVBS - RCA (Cinch) video
• 2x RCA (Cinch) analog audio
• Optical digital audio output TOSLINK

.

johndoc

User manual here

http://www.ferguson-digital.eu/en/download.html?func=fileinfo&id=508



.

johndoc

First problem was getting the external HDD working. Used a Western digital mybook essential. The Ferguson didn't like the autorun and virtual drive which come pre-loaded on the HDD. A fix is available from the WD site

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/updates/?family=wdsmartwareutilities

johndoc

A bit more relevant to the receiver itself...

When I got the HDD sorted (and into FAT32 - anything else might get recognised but won't work), there was a problem with the audio on playback skipping although the video was fine.
AV settings need to be adjusted to 1080i 50hz instead of the default 60hz.

This box does have a 7 day epg for the irish DTT channels, now and next for DVS.

timmydel1

Hi johndoc,
I was looking at getting this receiver myself.Can I ask how you are getting on with it ?

gtg60

And how much you paid for it? As I've googled a bit and the price I'm getting from the usual online shops seems to be a lot more than what I was expecting.

And the usual question when it comes to these sort of boxes, can you record from the DTT tuner and watch something on the DVB-S tuner?

johndoc

timmydel1 wrote: »

Hi johndoc,
I was looking at getting this receiver myself.Can I ask how you are getting on with it ?

Early days but not bad. I installed it in the folks house and I'm only there every couple of weeks or three.

One thing is the text in the OSD is very small, menu and EPG. Emailed ferguson tech dept - they reckon an increase in font size is in the pipeline with a future firmware upgrade. Wait and see what happens there.

johndoc

gtg60 wrote: »

And how much you paid for it? As I've googled a bit and the price I'm getting from the usual online shops seems to be a lot more than what I was expecting.

I got it from Tony at satellite.ie
He does 10% off for boardies if you click his sig.

gtg60 wrote: »

And the usual question when it comes to these sort of boxes, can you record from the DTT tuner and watch something on the DVB-S tuner?

Yep, no problem.

You can;
Record DVB-S, watch DVB-T
Record DVB-T, watch DVB-S
Record DVB-T, watch another DVB-T

No facility to watch one DVB-S, record another DVB-S

My thinking was that I could get two and kit two rooms for less than a premium plus and if I need to record a sat channels and watch at the same time, then just record in the other room.

timmydel1

Thanks for the update.Looks like Tony at satellite.ie has run out of stock for now.Gone from site.

rurs

Those recording features seem very interesting, a cut above the other budget boxes.
I had a look through the manual, and it only mentions viewing on the same transponder while recording. Was the watch one, record another added in a firmware update?
How easy is it to switch between tuners while you're recording, say from satellite to terrestrial, or vice versa, without messing up your recording?

One other thing, how well does it fill up the EPG, with the mix of 7 day and now&next? Do you get a grid type view with now&next for everything?

One more other thing , what drive are you using for recording? I'll probably need to get one whichever combo box I eventually get...

Sorry for all the Qs, just trying to get an idea of what to expect before handing over the readies...

tooler1

johndoc wrote: »

Very limited info out there for this box. Any users views or contributions appreciated……. Just got one and getting to know my way around.









From .www.ferguson-digital.eu





.

bought this unit last week from satellite.ie
so far i am very pleased wit it,does everything for me
i have hotbird and astra plus local digital reception
the hd quality is superb
only thing is it does not play movies via the usb port but i believe
there may be a firmware update for same, all in all a great buy
There is a new firmware update dated 2/3/2010
on the ferguson site
link http://www.ferguson-digital.eu/en/download/HD-Satellite-Receivers/Ariva-HDcombo/

rurs

Dropped into freesat.ie in Fairview and picked one up a few days ago.
Generally happy with it, but there are a couple of annoying bugs in the scheduling of recordings, I wonder does anyone else have these problems?
Working from the EPG, DTT can be scheduled fine, but try and do it from the now or next on Sat, and you get either a load of zeroes, if it's the first schedule you've done since turning on, or else if you've scheduled something from DTT, that info is used.
Also, trying to set up a weekly recording doesn't work unless you do it on the day of the week you want it to happen, otherwise it starts on the same day as you entered it.
I'm using the latest firmware, and a Buffalo MiniStation 320gb (model HD-PE320U2/BK-EU).

On the plus side, having access to either tuner while recording is a great feature, I'm surprised more isn't made of it. If you choose your BBC/ITV regions carefully, there's still alot of choice even when recording Sat.

In answer to my own questions earlier in the thread, you can switch seemlessly between whatever is available while recording, or else a warning pops up if you try and access something that's not available.

The EPG is divided into three sections, a list of channels top left, a preview window top right, and the actual info along the bottom. You do have to change channel to see what's on it, but you'd have to do that anyway with the satellite Now/Next on a grid, so it's actually quite usable.

I agree that the font is on the small side, does anyone know how often on average they release a new firmware? I've written to them with the scheduling bugs, I hope they fix them, it spoils an otherwise decent machine.

rurs

Beta channel editor posted on Ferguson site.
Only had a quick look, you need to load the .usb file from usb drive, then load .cfg file which is included in zip.
Had a quick go at ITV HD, but no luck yet. It renamed the channel, but it was still showing up in radio list. The channel list saved from the editor had messed up all my favourites too, so had to restore the previous list.
Good to see development, I hope they sort the schedule bugs I mentioned soon. Looking at the history of firmware releases, they seem to be every 4-6 weeks, so a bit more waiting is in store...

Paul Kiernan

Can anyone please answer the following questions on this box:

1. Can you upload recorded programs to your PC. If so, what format are they (e.g. .TS)?
2. Will it work with a White Sky FreeSatfromSky card?

Thanks, Paul

rurs

Files are .TRP, split into 2gb chunks, labelled as DATA01, DATA02 etc.
There is also a .DAT file, an .IFO, and an .IDX in the folder.
Media player classic has no trouble playing the mpeg2 satellite recordings, however I'm getting only sound from mpeg4 DTT, a codec issue I presume, but I haven't bothered trying to sort it, as it's not something I need to do at present.

It doesn't seem to keep any subtitles, or alternative audio tracks in the recording.

Can't help with the Sky card, not something I've used. If it did work,would you need to keep it alive in a Sky box?

Paul Kiernan

Thanks, Rurs.

It sounds like the TRP files are all you need on the PC and the other 3 are only used by the Ariva which would be perfect. I use Streamclip to backup and archive recordings and it can read TRP files.

Yes, AFAIK if I get the Sky card working it'll need to be kept alive. I have an old Sky box in another room so that won't be a problem. I'm hoping it'll give me Channel 4 HD but I'm not sure:o.

I gather you're happy with the Ferguson and not wishing you'd got an MVision or Edision?

Paul Kiernan

Hi Mods, any chance this could be moved to the Terrestrial Forum as it really belongs there? Thanks, Paul

rurs

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I gather you're happy with the Ferguson and not wishing you'd got an MVision or Edision?

They all have their foibles, if the other threads are anything to go by, but at least with the Ferguson, you can record DTT, and still have access to all the other channels, so that was what sold it to me.
I can live with the quirks, and hope they get fixed in a firmware update, but it largely does what it supposed to do, with decent PQ etc.

I noticed you asked in the Edision thread about auto-naming of recordings. It's a pity no-one replied, but for what it's worth, mostly, the Ferguson uses Channel/Date/Time, but occasionally it will tag with the actual name, particularly from Press TV, of all channels!?! Also TV3, when it was up, and RTE NL test, but never from the Freesat channels, and it's not consistent, so I don't know if it's something to do with how the information is transmitted in the various EPGs, or what. I've emailed the developers mentioning this, but haven't heard back.

Any other specifics you need info about, feel free to ask.

I'd second the move request, all the other combo talk is in Terrestrial...

slegs

rurs wrote: »

They all have their foibles, if the other threads are anything to go by, but at least with the Ferguson, you can record DTT, and still have access to all the other channels, so that was what sold it to me.
I can live with the quirks, and hope they get fixed in a firmware update, but it largely does what it supposed to do, with decent PQ etc.

I noticed you asked in the Edision thread about auto-naming of recordings. It's a pity no-one replied, but for what it's worth, mostly, the Ferguson uses Channel/Date/Time, but occasionally it will tag with the actual name, particularly from Press TV, of all channels!?! Also TV3, when it was up, and RTE NL test, but never from the Freesat channels, and it's not consistent, so I don't know if it's something to do with how the information is transmitted in the various EPGs, or what. I've emailed the developers mentioning this, but haven't heard back.

Any other specifics you need info about, feel free to ask.

I'd second the move request, all the other combo talk is in Terrestrial...

Edision recording is channel name and date time.

The Edision IP will be able to do record terrestrial and watch satellite and vice versa (hardware capable - upcoming formware to implement).

The Ferguson would need an unofficial firmware to decode a Freesat from sky card as emulation for decryption is not likely to be included in the official firmware. This may exist just not aware of it does.

Paul Kiernan

I've actually just bought the Edision as I know the Sky card will work with it. Hopefully they will sort out the watching DTT while recording satellite as I do this quite a lot.

As you say, rurs, all these boxes are quite new and hopefully, over time, the little glitches will be ironed out.

macalase

@rurs,

I have noticed the same problem with scheduled recordings on the DVS, picking up 0000, instead of the proper channel name.

I wish they could put the tv show name into the scheduled recordings too, at the moment it only shows the date and channel name when the recording is finished. CAn't be too hard for them to pull the show name from the EPG.

timmydel1

Hi lads, can anyone confirm that my Diablo2 will work in this receiver?Thanks.

andy73

Hi guys,

I have a TV only with component (YPbPr), can any owner of this box try for me please if the box is capable to output HD (720p or 1080i or 1080p) on component (especially when there are movies for example).

Many thanks,
Andy

STB

Rurs,

TSJoiner will join the trp files (if you have more than one trp).

For the RTE MPEG4 recordings just use TSDOCTOR an excellent free program for sorting TS files and PID errors.

I have just done a test on the RTE NL streams with it and it fixes them.

http://www.cypheros.de/files/TSDoctor_Eng.exe

Install and Open the program.

File, open the TS file (if its a TRP rename it to TS beforehand)

It will tell you that the full range is set for the DVB stream and ask you do you want to fix the flag.

Then Click fix. It saves the TS file with a _fixed extension on the end.

It now opens with VLC no problem. Sorted. Takes about 5 seconds.

rurs

STB, thanks for the links, I had a problem with my email account, didn't get the new post notifications, hence the slow replies.
Is there any software you'd recommend for transcoding from mpeg4 to DVD compatible files? I found TS doctor did a good job of merging, didn't bother with TS joiner.

@macalase - I've discovered recently that if you manually schedule recordings off DTT, (which is unfortunately necessary after around midnight - programs starting 10 or 20 minutes late is not uncommon), the name of the program is stored instead of the station/time tag.
Also, the latest firmware fixes the 0000 bug of scheduling from the EPG of sat channels, but messes up scheduling off DTT, except for now & next!

I've also discovered you can save timeshift...so you can sort of record two things at once...set one recording going, switch stations, pause that. When the first recording is finished, press play, then record, and it will immediately show a recording equivalent to to length of time it's been paused. Press stop when you know the program has finished. Not exactly automatic, but might come in handy sometime.

KeRbDoG

Picked up one of these boxes - have to say, fairly happy with it at the mo.

Anyone figured out a better way to edit the channel list other than the "ChannelEditor" (V1.0.8 Beta) from Ferguson. It really sucks. Won't even allow yea to resize its window!

Side note, can this thread be moved to general 'Satellite' or the 'Terrestrial' sub forums? Foreign Satellite doesn't make much sense for this box

rurs

Haven't had much joy with the editor myself. It seems to mess up the IDs on the terrestrial channels, so they don't transfer back correctly.

I've done all my channel editing on the box itself. Here's my list for Three Rock and 28 east, if it's any good to you. Use the page up/down buttons (the double arrows) to skip to +1 ITV/C4 etc.

I renamed the 8 favourite lists, but it's hit and miss whether they load, or the default names remain.

Tony

Guys you may or may not know that ferguson recommend you do a factory re set before loading a channel list, apparently the list can disappear on a power down if you do not do this.

KeRbDoG

rurs wrote: »

Haven't had much joy with the editor myself. It seems to mess up the IDs on the terrestrial channels, so they don't transfer back correctly.

I've done all my channel editing on the box itself. Here's my list for Three Rock and 28 east, if it's any good to you. Use the page up/down buttons (the double arrows) to skip to +1 ITV/C4 etc.

I renamed the 8 favourite lists, but it's hit and miss whether they load, or the default names remain.

Right, I got bored so I fought with the editor software - 28 East & Three Rock channel list attached with all the channels I considered really crappy removed.
Left some crap ones in there though like 'The Horror Channel'

Hope someone will get some use of it

Found out that the ComboHD cannot display "É" or characters so it looks like its borked but it isn't. I've edited the main channels to take this into account but I think I've left the radio channels as is.
I believe the Editor just displays DVBT channels incorrectly in the channel list, when yea edit them all the data is in the correct fields.

rurs

@Tony, Never had that problem myself, and I would generally powerdown once a week at least.

The annoying thing after a reset or firmware upgrade is that the schedule list is wiped, I find that more of a hassle than any messing around with channel lists.

The only problem I've had after a power cycle is that the external drive is not always recognised, but that's only if I've forgotten to unmount it from the PVR menu before turning off the power. If that happens, I connect the drive to a Windows machine, run error checking from the drive properties, and tick "Automatically fix file system errors". That seems to do the trick.

Tony, I've sent a few emails regarding bugs/feature requests to [email]expert@ferguson-digital[/email]...would you say that's the best contact to use?

Most of the major annoyances have been cleared up, they seem to be on a fairly regular 6-8 week cycle of updated firmware. One out this week actually, "ICE card support", don't know what that is, so I didn't bother upgrading, presume it's a particular sub card?

KeRbDoG

rurs wrote: »

Most of the major annoyances have been cleared up, they seem to be on a fairly regular 6-8 week cycle of updated firmware. One out this week actually, "ICE card support", don't know what that is, so I didn't bother upgrading, presume it's a particular sub card?

Another release is already out here - S022beta

firmware version: S022
fix: Chech and Slovak characters in EPG and teletext (when OSD is set to Czech)
fix: longer EPG info

I've also updated my channel list - edited and added the BBCi services & CBBCs manually as for some reason they didn't show up in a scan.
Also, threw the different channels into 'Favorates' categories.

Tony

I'm not sure what the best email to use to be honest but I'm guessing the expert one is as good as any. Unfortunately I've found ferguson to be a little slow at times responsing to specific issues.

fast_eddie

Hi,

I got this Ferguson box last week, very impressive. Originally I couldn't pick up any terrestrial channels on an automatic scan, but using Kerbdog's channel listing (thanks!) and rebooting the box has it running fine for Irish DTT.

Has anyone had any success picking up the UK Freeview channels?

My Samsung TV will pick them up, as will the PlayTV box on the PS3 - so I have at least passable coverage from the rooftop aerial.

Thanks,
Eddie

STB

fast_eddie wrote: »

Hi,

I got this Ferguson box last week, very impressive. Originally I couldn't pick up any terrestrial channels on an automatic scan, but using Kerbdog's channel listing (thanks!) and rebooting the box has it running fine for Irish DTT.

Has anyone had any success picking up the UK Freeview channels?

My Samsung TV will pick them up, as will the PlayTV box on the PS3 - so I have at least passable coverage from the rooftop aerial.

Thanks,
Eddie

If your terrestrial tuner on your Samsung is picking up digital channels there is absolutely no reason why the Ferguson shouldnt. Have you tried going into the terrestrial scan with the aerial connection that is going to your TV connected to the aerial in connection on the box instead ?


You will then have to edit the favourites list that you have loaded to include the new stations from your terrestrial scan.

rurs

KeRbDoG wrote: »

I've also updated my channel list - edited and added the BBCi services & CBBCs manually as for some reason they didn't show up in a scan.
Also, threw the different channels into 'Favorates' categories.

Do the BBCi not show up as stream-0, stream-1 etc? I think they did for me.

Did you create the list entirely in the editor, and then load it? I think I had a list I'd created on the box, loaded it into the editor, but when I loaded it back the order in the favourite list was jumbled. Must have another go.

I see you left out Press TV & Russia Today...worth a look for Max Keiser if want an alternative take on the world economy:)

@fast eddie: you could try scanning the particular mux number, instead of a complete scan. The other thing worth a look is the antenna power setting. Turning it off/on has fixed no signal for me, although I do have it powering a masthead amp.

@Tony: They replied to me once, before I'd bought it, confirming the watch one tuner record another feature. I don't expect a reply anymore, just to make the right people aware of issues.

KeRbDoG

rurs wrote: »

Do the BBCi not show up as stream-0, stream-1 etc? I think they did for me.

Did you create the list entirely in the editor, and then load it? I think I had a list I'd created on the box, loaded it into the editor, but when I loaded it back the order in the favourite list was jumbled. Must have another go.

I see you left out Press TV & Russia Today...worth a look for Max Keiser if want an alternative take on the world economy:)

Edited the favourites on the box mostly, then some more edits in the editor software.
I think I got a little delete happy initially so i might have deleted BBCi/stream-0 etc. by mistake. Missed Press TV & Russia Today - arse, will manually add those in which I noticed I could only do via the editor? Any way of doing this via the boxes menus I wonder...

KeRbDoG

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Another release is already out here - S022beta

Another firmware release already - S023

firmware version: S023
fix: teletext bug in S022

fast_eddie

STB wrote: »

Have you tried going into the terrestrial scan with the aerial connection that is going to your TV connected to the aerial in connection on the box instead ?

Thanks STB - kicking myself for not thinking of that already.

I moved the Ferguson to the sitting room and connected the aerial going into the TV, a "terrestrial" scan picked up all the expected channels (better quality than the Samsung TV, less stuttering) - a quick save and moved back to the room where it will be used, the channels were still available and working.

Obviously a lot of attenuation going on - I'm not sure where or how the aerial installer did his thing to run the cable to three separate points from one aerial, but in fairness the cabling was installed several years ago and has been fine for analog reception.

Anyhoo, immediate problem solved - many thanks folks!

Regards,
Eddie

rurs

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Edited the favourites on the box mostly, then some more edits in the editor software.
I think I got a little delete happy initially so i might have deleted BBCi/stream-0 etc. by mistake. Missed Press TV & Russia Today - arse, will manually add those in which I noticed I could only do via the editor? Any way of doing this via the boxes menus I wonder...

You could always scan the particular transponders these channels are on, and then delete the channels you don't want? But you probably knew that... I don't think there's any way to add individual channels without scanning.

KeRbDoG

New firmware - S025 Beta

firmware version: S025
fix: new Cyfra CAID

firmware version: S024
mod: Antenna power 5V is now disabled by default

rurs

I saw that myself, they have an rss feed on the download page, which I'm following.

Nothing particularly useful in the last few updates from my point of view. I've mailed them about a teletext bug (subpages don't work well), also the highlighted program in the epg jumps back to start of the day, after looking at the detailed info for the current or later time.

Anyone else mailed them with these problems or others?
Maybe a bit of pressure from users could influence them...

whiterteeth

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and expertise. It has helped meet greatly. Consequently I hope my question is reasonable. My son has a satellite dish and receiver. He also has an aerial for Irish tv. He and his family seldom get to look at what they want so a recorder would come in useful.
After reading most of the threads I am considering the Ferguson Ariva. I need to know what is the best external hard drive with Fat32? I'm reading that any recorder that does not have an internal hard drive is not a true PVR! The Ferguson is a good price and I hope will fill the bill but I would really value your advice. My head is full of 7 day EPG etc so any imput would be welcome. Many thanks.

rurs

Info on external hard disk here. Any disk can be formatted in FAT32, how it's powered is the point.

As regards the PVR question, I suppose you could argue that a fully featured PVR would have an internal HDD, and also have twin satellite tuners, so you can watch and record the full range of channels at once. With the Ariva, if you are recording a satellite channel, say BBC1 London, you can only watch channels on the same transponder (ie frequency), which in the case of BBC1 London is BBC2 England, BBC3, Five etc, or the Irish channels on DTT.

However, you're looking at €400 plus for a triple tuner combo, plus extra cabling from the dish. If it's the case that you're just not at home when something is on, a twin/triple tuner is overkill. If you just want a drop in replacement for an existing satellite and terrestrial install, plus the added bonus of PVR features, the Ariva is as good as any.

I went on a scheduling blitz recently, and discovered that the maximum number of recordings you can schedule is 21.

There's a lot to take in alright, keep the questions coming and it will all become clear!

whiterteeth

Thank you rurs for your very helpful and encouraging reply.

I think I can get a 320 Mb Iomega hard drive for about €75 here in Dublin. I hope that I won't need to format it, looks difficult, but merely plug it in and away it goes! Again thanks

I was in Bray today!

KeRbDoG

Yea could get yourself a 2.5" 1TB USB powered drive for €100~ delivered from Amazon

Ah, just noted;

HDD only up to 750 GB are supported

Ignore me so

Tony

I think the ferguson works better with self powered drives from what I've heard back so far. Anyone had success with USB powered drives?

rurs

whiterteeth wrote: »

Thank you rurs for your very helpful and encouraging reply.

I think I can get a 320 Mb Iomega hard drive for about €75 here in Dublin. I hope that I won't need to format it, looks difficult, but merely plug it in and away it goes! Again thanks

I was in Bray today!

There's a menu item on the box itself to format a usb disk, try that first. I'm not sure why Ferguson go into so much detail on that FAQ page. I can't remember how I did it...

I'd be inclined to go for a disk that needs no external power supply, or needs a second usb port for power. Which drive specifically were you thinking about? I see Peats and Power City have the same Iomega models at reasonable prices that seem to fit the bill.

rurs

Tony wrote: »

I think the ferguson works better with self powered drives from what I've heard back so far. Anyone had success with USB powered drives?

Cross posts and purposes, Tony:D

I've been using a usb powered Buffalo MiniStation 320gb (model HD-PE320U2/BK-EU) since day one, no problems, spins down after a few minutes in standby, can record and watch HD etc.

Ferguson recommend the WD My Passport Essential, I think they're USB powered?

I suppose a self powered drive is guaranteed to work, it's a bit more chancey with a usb powered one, but it's another load of wires to accommodate...

What proportion of your customers have had problems(if that's not too "personal" a question:-))Surely if the drive is designed to work from a single port on a laptop, it should get enough power from the STB? I don't know how you could measure if the STB gives the full 500ma on the usb port that a port is supposed to provide....Any ideas?

Tony

Interesting, guess it was just one or two reviewers that had this problem.

You seem to get more useful info from ferguson than I do

rurs wrote: »

Cross posts and purposes, Tony:D

I've been using a usb powered Buffalo MiniStation 320gb (model HD-PE320U2/BK-EU) since day one, no problems, spins down after a few minutes in standby, can record and watch HD etc.

Ferguson recommend the WD My Passport Essential, I think they're USB powered?

I suppose a self powered drive is guaranteed to work, it's a bit more chancey with a usb powered one, but it's another load of wires to accommodate...

What proportion of your customers have had problems(if that's not too "personal" a question:-))Surely if the drive is designed to work from a single port on a laptop, it should get enough power from the STB?

rurs

Tony wrote: »

Interesting, guess it was just one or two reviewers that had this problem.

You seem to get more useful info from ferguson than I do

Not really, maybe I have more time to trawl their site ...the info on the disks is in their FAQ

ritx75

I bought this one from fergusonshop.com couple weeks ago. 118€ already with delivery to Ireland.
Ferguson Ariva do the same that Openbox s9 just this is European product, the performance and picture quality is way much better, the firmware support is excellent. The is no HD Channel issues and the USUALS works great.