Logical Intelligence and Social Intelligence

Red_Marauder

I was at a family house party last night and I brought along some acquaintances, sort of, by accident.
They're very intelligent guys and work in the physical sciences. They obviously have a very deep spatial and logical intelligence, but their social skills were exasperatingly bad, as became clear as the night progressed.

In short, they spent the early part of the evening loudly bickering over the pedantics of something far too tedious and technical to try and recount here.
The rest of the evening was spent failing to reciprocate with any stilted conversation that was tried on them - or else, later - belittling religious faith in a rather rude, mocking way around some of the older guests.

Bad social skills, or inability to understand tact or how to handle a conversation seem completely lost on some people.

I know I might get slated for suggesting this on an internet forum, but, do you consider this to be a problem disproportionately related to those who may be very spetially aware or technically minded?

I don't think it's a question of intelligence alone - since intelligence is made up of a variety of components - social intelligence among them in my opinion.
But this is a pattern I have always noticed with my circle of friends or acquaintances. The most spatially intelligent people I know are usually the most socially inept. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone, just wondering what people think or if you have made similiar observations.

Fago!

That post was way too long.

I do know what you mean, but I know a few people like that who have great social skills. It depends on the person.

IvySlayer

I find that smarter people don't have common sense.

Einstein, brilliant at at physics, couldn't do simple arithmetic.

Antbert

*Shrug* Sounds like a good party to me.

My name is URL

All I know is that spetially isn't a word

Antbert

IvySlayer wrote: »

I find that smartest people don't have common sense. Einstein, brilliant at at physics, couldn't do simple arithmetic.

Arithmetic isn't "common sense". Some people just have difficulty visualising the numbers to add together. Common sense is like... Don't cross the road in rush hour traffic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Too much time in the comfort zone to be honest...

The thing is that, when a kid is growing up, it's all about intellectual intelligence. Everything else is second rate. Study, learn, get a job, get a good salary and people think you're successful. Doesn't matter how depressed, scoially unintelligent (I won't say thick) you are. We just assume kids will pick that up with friends, family and so on, but do nothing to try and ehlp when it turns out that the kids are natually shy or just not good at reading social situations.

The education system needs to be a bit more rounded. Not just logical/intellectual and social intelligence, but others as well.

Said this ages ago and get labled a PC-liberal-pinko-whatever.

stovelid

Sounds like you attend riveting parties.

Fago!

My name is URL wrote: »

All I know is that spetially isn't a word

Yeth it ith. Ith pronounthed "Thpecial"

IvySlayer

Antbert wrote: »

Arithmetic isn't "common sense". Some people just have difficulty visualising the numbers to add together. Common sense is like... Don't cross the road in rush hour traffic.

I never said it was.

I myself can't do maths. Or physics. Or tie my shoelaces

I make up for it in other areas though, computers, biology, gisting.

dublin 16 lad

I think it depends entirely on your upbringing tbh. If you're parents or siblings are odd balls who are slightly inept socially, there is a higher chance their children will be oddballs, regardless of intelligence imo

Antbert

The IT Crowd is funny for a reason. That reason being, yes, the stereotype you describe does exist.

Dudess

My cousin is an actuary and his workmates decide where they'll go for lunch via a spreadsheet - "Random lunch generator" they call it.

I begged my cousin to confirm he was sh1tting me, but he is adamant this is true.

citizen_p

i know people like that....they cant have a laugh ,standing in corners, talking to the same people they talk to all day and not tryng to socialize with others.

Antbert

Dudess wrote: »

My cousin is an actuary and his workmates decide where they'll go for lunch via a spreadsheet - "Random lunch generator" they call it.

I begged my cousin to confirm he was sh1tting me, but he is adamant this is true.

Haha that is brilliant. I would befriend your cousin.

Maybe I AM your cousin...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dublin 16 lad wrote: »

I think it depends entirely on your upbringing tbh. If you're parents or siblings are odd balls who are slightly inept socially, there is a higher chance their children will be oddballs, regardless of intelligence imo

Doubt it. Some kids are just natually shy. There's lots of families that have kids that are social and friendly along side kids who are academic and probbaly a bit reserved at social events.

DublinWriter

Dudess wrote: »

My cousin is an actuary and his workmates decide where they'll go for lunch via a spreadsheet - "Random lunch generator" they call it.

Complete BS - actuaries don't do 'random'.

JPA

IvySlayer wrote: »

I find that smarter people don't have common sense.

Einstein, brilliant at at physics, couldn't do simple arithmetic.

http://www.time.com/time/2007/einstein/3.html

Cianos

You're assessing these people based upon your own social expectations. Maybe they don't think it's socially stimulating to 'have the craic' or yap on about matters that most people would find themselves talking about to others simply because they are easily established commonalities between people.

hooradiation

Dudess wrote: »

My cousin is an actuary and his workmates decide where they'll go for lunch via a spreadsheet - "Random lunch generator" they call it.

I begged my cousin to confirm he was sh1tting me, but he is adamant this is true.

And?

Sounds like a pretty decent idea to me, saves on the tedious "where shall we go" conversations.

GLaDOS

Dudess wrote: »

My cousin is an actuary and his workmates decide where they'll go for lunch via a spreadsheet - "Random lunch generator" they call it.

I begged my cousin to confirm he was sh1tting me, but he is adamant this is true.

I think that's brilliant

Cianos wrote: »

You're assessing these people based upon your own social expectations. Maybe they don't think it's socially stimulating to 'have the craic' or yap on about matters that most people would find themselves talking about to others simply because they are easily established commonalities between people.

Agree with this, you seem to assume they weren't enjoying themselves just because you wouldn't have acted that way.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Yea op, I have a few mates like that too. Would rather watch star trek instead of going to the pub. That's fair enough, but, when there is a gathering in our house, I have to explain to other people his behaviour and that he is fairly ok. Some of my mates have no idea how to make new friends, they cannot talk to women, they don't understand relationships and how to act in a group. They are socially retarded. Then they wonder why they don't have many friends, they don't have many female friends and why they are still virgins. They ain't ugly, just stupid when it comes to social events.

I mean, I could knock on my mates door and he would tell me "don't come in dude, i'm having a ****"... He could tell my girlfriend this too if she knocks on his door...

I mean, wtf. I position these people very low on the scale of intelligence. You don't tell people you are poping one off.

Now they understand, better than I do, a lot of sciences. They work really well with computers and have a large knowledge base of space orientated stuff.

They don't understand a lot about "real" things, like law, economics, budgeting, how to bargain or deal with people appropiately. Things which most people use every day, they wouldn't have a clue.

I normally say "sure if they are happy with it" but they are not. They are often very depressed and the likes, I try to explain to them that not everyone likes nebulas or quantom physics. When you are chatting a woman up, they don't need to hear about that time the lads caught you popping one off.

To me, and many others, it seems perfectly logical to NOT say this type of thing, but some of them just don't understand what's so wrong with it...

Red_Marauder

Cianos wrote: »

Maybe they don't think it's socially stimulating to 'have the craic' or yap on about matters that most people would find themselves talking about to others in a social setting because they are easily established commonalities between people.

I don't think the great questions of the day like "Superquinn or Dunnes?", "Pat Kenny or Gay Byrne?", "Dessert Wine or Sherry?" are particularly engaging topics.

Nevertheless if I was at a party and some old dear wanted to try them on with me I'd simply humour her. I don't know, whatever about social intelligence, isn't that just good manners?

Red_Marauder

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Too much time in the comfort zone to be honest...

The thing is that, when a kid is growing up, it's all about intellectual intelligence. Everything else is second rate. Study, learn, get a job, get a good salary and people think you're successful. Doesn't matter how depressed, scoially unintelligent (I won't say thick) you are. We just assume kids will pick that up with friends, family and so on, but do nothing to try and ehlp when it turns out that the kids are natually shy or just not good at reading social situations.

The education system needs to be a bit more rounded. Not just logical/intellectual and social intelligence, but others as well.

Said this ages ago and get labled a PC-liberal-pinko-whatever.

Yeah I agree with this, I think education has a lot to do with it. We don't encourage social interaction or extra curricular skills half enough in the educational system.

Sheeps

Some of the smartest people I know are also some of the soundest people I know. It seems you simply encountered a bunch of lame nerds. I know lots of socially inept people and not all of them are incredibly smart either. Some of them have literally nothing going for them.

Cianos

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I don't think the great questions of the day like "Superquinn or Dunnes?", "Pat Kenny or Gay Byrne?", "Dessert Wine or Sherry?" are particularly engaging topics.

Nevertheless if I was at a party and some old dear wanted to try them on with me I'd simply humour her. I don't know, whatever about social intelligence, isn't that just good manners?

Well manners are something different. One can have the ability to humour conversation that doesn't interest them, but still choose not to because it's tedious.

TPD

Dudess wrote: »

My cousin is an actuary and his workmates decide where they'll go for lunch via a spreadsheet - "Random lunch generator" they call it.

I begged my cousin to confirm he was sh1tting me, but he is adamant this is true.

I was tempted to write a phone app for the same reason

nyarlothothep

Meh, small talk is so boring, I can't talk about irrelevant stuff on nights out, I'd rather discuss politics, science, philosophy, star trek or movies like Star Trek 6, Robocop or Desperado. I don't blame other people who aren't interested in talking about topics which are deemed to be "social." Yeah obviously some of the stuff mentioned on here is ridiculous in a social situation. Also I find it dubious that girls can't talk about science/philosophy/politics/literature, this is untrue in my experience although it may be applicable to certain personality types. I guess if your in a fish out of water situation do as the romans do and make a hasty retreat.

Mocking religion is bad form in front of the older generations. That's so obvious that it's amazing some people don't cop it to drop the conversation.

I just feel sorry for the people with neither.. Of course implying I have at least one. :cool:

dsmythy

Reminds me of the whole genius and insanity thing. It seems for scientific progress to be made individuals must exist who have the ability to do it at the expense of their own happiness. It's almost a noble sacrifice.

Antbert wrote: »

Arithmetic isn't "common sense". Some people just have difficulty visualising the numbers to add together. Common sense is like... Don't cross the road in rush hour traffic.

My name is URL wrote: »

All I know is that spetially isn't a word

Were you two at the party?

nyarlothothep

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Meh, small talk is so boring, I can't talk about irrelevant stuff on nights out, I'd rather discuss politics, science, philosophy, star trek or movies like Star Trek 6, Robocop or Desperado. I don't blame other people who aren't interested in talking about topics which are deemed to be "social." Yeah obviously some of the stuff mentioned on here is ridiculous in a social situation. Also I find it dubious that girls can't talk about science/philosophy/politics/literature, this is untrue in my experience although it may be applicable to certain personality types. I guess if your in a fish out of water situation do as the romans do and make a hasty retreat.

Small talk is the way to get to know someone.. If you talk to someone new about politics for an hour, you have learned nothing about them or what's going on in their lives.

The Streets - Weak become Heroes
"Where you from, what you on and what's your story"

Red_Marauder

Deleted User wrote: »

Mocking religion is bad form in front of the older generations. That's so obvious that it's amazing some people don't cop it to drop the conversation.

Yeah I would agree with this. I take no truck with people jibing me for my own a-la-carte Christmas and exam time hypocracies, or how I contradict my "religious affiliation" census return with my lifestyle. That's perfectly understandable. Religious debate should be encouraged in general - even vigourously so.

However, when it comes to those facing into the final years of their long lives, quizzing personal belief or addressing faith disparagingly as some horrifyingly harmful craze is just rude. If they find it comforting, let them.

Star Trek isn't real either, after all.

Cianos

Deleted User wrote: »

Small talk is the way to get to know someone.. If you talk to someone new about politics for an hour, you have learned nothing about them or what's going on in their lives.

The Streets - Weak become Heroes
"Where you from, what you on and what's your story"

I disagree. Small talk is generally quite boring - and the answers to the questions won't give me any real information about what they are like as a person. I couldn't really care less where the person is from, what they do for a living or if they're going on holidays this year. These are the kind of questions that are asked because they are non intrusive. It takes more to learn about the person and what is actually going on in their lives.

Prof.Badass

Red_Marauder wrote: »

But this is a pattern I have always noticed with my circle of friends or acquaintances. The most spatially intelligent people I know are usually the most socially inept. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone, just wondering what people think or if you have made similiar observations.

It's very hard to guess someone's intelligence based on how they come across socially. Obviously there are some people who have proven to you that they are reasonably intelligent and others that have proven to you that they are not so intelligent, but for the vast majority of people you just don't really know, and it's so easy to get a wrong impression.

For example someone could be a real daydreamy person (or maybe they're lacking in social confidence) and other people might assume they are "slow" even though they are actually quite intelligent.

On the other hand, people who deliberately try and make themselves come across as intelligent are usually lacking in social intelligence, whereas someone with high social intelligence could probably be a genius and you'd never really know it (unless maybe you worked with them or engaged them in an intellectual conversation - and with their ability to not dive straight into the deep end of the conversation (and your ego), you'd probably just end up assuming they're as intelligent as yourself).

phantom_lord

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I was at a family house party last night and I brought along some acquaintances, sort of, by accident.
They're very intelligent guys and work in the physical sciences. They obviously have a very deep spatial and logical intelligence, but their social skills were exasperatingly bad, as became clear as the night progressed.

reminds me of a post i read the other day:

there is also the tendency for people who are socially retarded to overestimate their own intelligence. Almost always they are confusing the ability to excel at school with intelligence - two very different metrics. Social interaction is not difficult and someone who is intelligent should easily be able to integrate into almost any group.

Red_Marauder

vinylmesh wrote: »

It's very hard to guess someone's intelligence based on how they come across socially. Obviously there are some people who have proven to you that they are reasonably intelligent and others that have proven to you that they are not so intelligent, but for the vast majority of people you just don't really know, and it's so easy to get a wrong impression.

That's quite true, I'm sure we've all been in situations where we were taken aback by someone's intelligence in a way we may not have predicted.

I remember going picking mushrooms (for mushroom soup:pac:) way out in the sticks about a year ago. I met this dishevelled, nervously spoken retired farmer who I could only accurately compare to The Vicar of Dibley's Jim. However, his knowledge of Soviet history from the Tsars to Yelstin was incredible; as it happened he was a mine of knowledge on local plant life as well.

So sometimes people can surprise you, it's true, intelligence can be difficult to judge on a personality basis.

But I do think there is generally some relationship - or relationship breakdown perhaps - between spatial intelligence and social awareness.

amdublin

I know someone who hates socialising and making small talk.

They bought a pack of playing cards to a wedding once to avoid having to get up and dance and talking to anyone!

bonerm

In general I think spatially intelligent people (or any sort of intelligence that isn't emotionally centred) are working on a different (not necessarily higher) level than the rest of people. They've too much going on in their heads to spend adequate amound time preparing/experiencing the conventional minutia of daily life that other people have accumulated as a matter of coarse. That's why when one of these social occasions comes along they often end up not fitting in. It's a pure case no training during the week and then expecting to turn it on for the match on Saturday. It just doesn't happen.

Further I believe that this "issue" (if you wish to believe it is one) can be remedied rather easily. This is not their "personality". It's just the net result of too much time spent thinking about things instead of people.

aDeener

hooradiation wrote: »

And?

Sounds like a pretty decent idea to me, saves on the tedious "where shall we go" conversations.

Oh because they are so time consuming and eventually no lunch is ever eaten.... bloody hell that spreadsheet thing is fcuking lame

GLaDOS

bonerm wrote: »

In general I think spatially intelligent people (or any sort of intelligence that isn't emotionally centred) are working on a different (not necessarily higher) level than the rest of people. They've too much going on in their heads to spend adequate amound time preparing/experiencing the conventional minutia of daily life that other people have accumulated as a matter of coarse. That's why when one of these social occasions comes along they often end up not fitting in. It's a pure case no training during the week and then expecting to turn it on for the match on Saturday. It just doesn't happen.

Further I believe that this "issue" (if you wish to believe it is one) can be remedied rather easily. This is not their "personality". It's just the net result of too much time spent thinking about things instead of people.

While there are people like that, there are plenty who are very intelligent and popular, so I don't think that hypothesis holds true

Sea Sharp

O/P I know what you're talking about. A large number of 'smart' people are what I'd call socially retarded. But maybe they're smart because they sucked at getting along with other people so they focused their energy on education to compensate for this.

I have also noticed a difference between Dublin folks and country folks with regard to 'general copp on' in certain ways. But I suppose that probably works both ways.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Yeah I agree with this, I think education has a lot to do with it. We don't encourage social interaction or extra curricular skills half enough in the educational system.

True. And when they do, it's usually sport or somethin else were you can measure and compare your kids against someone else's.

Deleted User wrote: »

Mocking religion is bad form in front of the older generations. That's so obvious that it's amazing some people don't cop it to drop the conversation.

I just feel sorry for the people with neither.. Of course implying I have at least one. :cool:

In fairness, some of them have it coming! But as long as it;s done respectfully and not in a 'trolling' manner.

ScienceNerd wrote: »

While there are people like that, there are plenty who are very intelligent and popular, so I don't think that hypothesis holds true

Said the "science nerd"! (sorry!)

GLaDOS

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Said the "science nerd"! (sorry!)

I'll have you know I have nearly 200 facebook friends!

bonerm

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'll have you know I have nearly 200 facebook friends!

C'mon you can give us a more precise figure than that.

GLaDOS

bonerm wrote: »

C'mon you can give us a more precise figure than that.

150 < x < 200, x ∈ N

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'll have you know I have nearly 200 facebook friends!

bonerm wrote: »

C'mon you can give us a more precise figure than that.

20.0

Antbert

How about you just... Don't invite them to parties?

bonerm

ScienceNerd wrote: »

150 < x < 200, x ∈ N

That's even less precise that I credited you with. I figured you'd say

195 < x < 200, x ∈ N

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Antbert wrote: »

How about you just... Don't invite them to parties?

... and therein lies the other problem: no one invites them, they get even more socialyl introverted and the enxt thing you know, they've got a gun and a grudge to settle.

GLaDOS

bonerm wrote: »

That's even less precise that I credited you with. I figured you'd say

195 < x < 200, x ∈ N

I find the ladies like a bit of mystery

El Siglo

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I find the ladies like a bit of mystery

Or perhaps you find them: i² = -1