Logical Intelligence and Social Intelligence

Red_Marauder · 14-02-2010 04:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Mocking religion is bad form in front of the older generations. That's so obvious that it's amazing some people don't cop it to drop the conversation.

Yeah I would agree with this. I take no truck with people jibing me for my own a-la-carte Christmas and exam time hypocracies, or how I contradict my "religious affiliation" census return with my lifestyle. That's perfectly understandable. Religious debate should be encouraged in general - even vigourously so.

However, when it comes to those facing into the final years of their long lives, quizzing personal belief or addressing faith disparagingly as some horrifyingly harmful craze is just rude. If they find it comforting, let them.

Star Trek isn't real either, after all.

Cianos · 14-02-2010 04:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Small talk is the way to get to know someone.. If you talk to someone new about politics for an hour, you have learned nothing about them or what's going on in their lives.

The Streets - Weak become Heroes
"Where you from, what you on and what's your story"

I disagree. Small talk is generally quite boring - and the answers to the questions won't give me any real information about what they are like as a person. I couldn't really care less where the person is from, what they do for a living or if they're going on holidays this year. These are the kind of questions that are asked because they are non intrusive. It takes more to learn about the person and what is actually going on in their lives.

Prof.Badass · 14-02-2010 04:51PM

Red_Marauder wrote: »

But this is a pattern I have always noticed with my circle of friends or acquaintances. The most spatially intelligent people I know are usually the most socially inept. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone, just wondering what people think or if you have made similiar observations.

It's very hard to guess someone's intelligence based on how they come across socially. Obviously there are some people who have proven to you that they are reasonably intelligent and others that have proven to you that they are not so intelligent, but for the vast majority of people you just don't really know, and it's so easy to get a wrong impression.

For example someone could be a real daydreamy person (or maybe they're lacking in social confidence) and other people might assume they are "slow" even though they are actually quite intelligent.

On the other hand, people who deliberately try and make themselves come across as intelligent are usually lacking in social intelligence, whereas someone with high social intelligence could probably be a genius and you'd never really know it (unless maybe you worked with them or engaged them in an intellectual conversation - and with their ability to not dive straight into the deep end of the conversation (and your ego), you'd probably just end up assuming they're as intelligent as yourself).

phantom_lord · 14-02-2010 04:52PM

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I was at a family house party last night and I brought along some acquaintances, sort of, by accident.
They're very intelligent guys and work in the physical sciences. They obviously have a very deep spatial and logical intelligence, but their social skills were exasperatingly bad, as became clear as the night progressed.

reminds me of a post i read the other day:

there is also the tendency for people who are socially retarded to overestimate their own intelligence. Almost always they are confusing the ability to excel at school with intelligence - two very different metrics. Social interaction is not difficult and someone who is intelligent should easily be able to integrate into almost any group.

Red_Marauder · 14-02-2010 05:05PM

vinylmesh wrote: »

It's very hard to guess someone's intelligence based on how they come across socially. Obviously there are some people who have proven to you that they are reasonably intelligent and others that have proven to you that they are not so intelligent, but for the vast majority of people you just don't really know, and it's so easy to get a wrong impression.

That's quite true, I'm sure we've all been in situations where we were taken aback by someone's intelligence in a way we may not have predicted.

I remember going picking mushrooms (for mushroom soup:pac:) way out in the sticks about a year ago. I met this dishevelled, nervously spoken retired farmer who I could only accurately compare to The Vicar of Dibley's Jim. However, his knowledge of Soviet history from the Tsars to Yelstin was incredible; as it happened he was a mine of knowledge on local plant life as well.

So sometimes people can surprise you, it's true, intelligence can be difficult to judge on a personality basis.

But I do think there is generally some relationship - or relationship breakdown perhaps - between spatial intelligence and social awareness.

amdublin · 14-02-2010 05:24PM

I know someone who hates socialising and making small talk.

They bought a pack of playing cards to a wedding once to avoid having to get up and dance and talking to anyone!

bonerm · 14-02-2010 05:29PM

In general I think spatially intelligent people (or any sort of intelligence that isn't emotionally centred) are working on a different (not necessarily higher) level than the rest of people. They've too much going on in their heads to spend adequate amound time preparing/experiencing the conventional minutia of daily life that other people have accumulated as a matter of coarse. That's why when one of these social occasions comes along they often end up not fitting in. It's a pure case no training during the week and then expecting to turn it on for the match on Saturday. It just doesn't happen.

Further I believe that this "issue" (if you wish to believe it is one) can be remedied rather easily. This is not their "personality". It's just the net result of too much time spent thinking about things instead of people.

aDeener · 14-02-2010 05:32PM

hooradiation wrote: »

And?

Sounds like a pretty decent idea to me, saves on the tedious "where shall we go" conversations.

Oh because they are so time consuming and eventually no lunch is ever eaten.... bloody hell that spreadsheet thing is fcuking lame

GLaDOS · 14-02-2010 05:36PM

bonerm wrote: »

In general I think spatially intelligent people (or any sort of intelligence that isn't emotionally centred) are working on a different (not necessarily higher) level than the rest of people. They've too much going on in their heads to spend adequate amound time preparing/experiencing the conventional minutia of daily life that other people have accumulated as a matter of coarse. That's why when one of these social occasions comes along they often end up not fitting in. It's a pure case no training during the week and then expecting to turn it on for the match on Saturday. It just doesn't happen.

Further I believe that this "issue" (if you wish to believe it is one) can be remedied rather easily. This is not their "personality". It's just the net result of too much time spent thinking about things instead of people.

While there are people like that, there are plenty who are very intelligent and popular, so I don't think that hypothesis holds true

Sea Sharp · 14-02-2010 05:36PM

O/P I know what you're talking about. A large number of 'smart' people are what I'd call socially retarded. But maybe they're smart because they sucked at getting along with other people so they focused their energy on education to compensate for this.

I have also noticed a difference between Dublin folks and country folks with regard to 'general copp on' in certain ways. But I suppose that probably works both ways.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-02-2010 05:41PM

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Yeah I agree with this, I think education has a lot to do with it. We don't encourage social interaction or extra curricular skills half enough in the educational system.

True. And when they do, it's usually sport or somethin else were you can measure and compare your kids against someone else's.

Deleted User wrote: »

Mocking religion is bad form in front of the older generations. That's so obvious that it's amazing some people don't cop it to drop the conversation.

I just feel sorry for the people with neither.. Of course implying I have at least one. :cool:

In fairness, some of them have it coming! But as long as it;s done respectfully and not in a 'trolling' manner.

ScienceNerd wrote: »

While there are people like that, there are plenty who are very intelligent and popular, so I don't think that hypothesis holds true

Said the "science nerd"!

(sorry!)

GLaDOS · 14-02-2010 05:46PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Said the "science nerd"! (sorry!)

I'll have you know I have nearly 200 facebook friends!

bonerm · 14-02-2010 05:47PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'll have you know I have nearly 200 facebook friends!

C'mon you can give us a more precise figure than that.

GLaDOS · 14-02-2010 05:50PM

bonerm wrote: »

C'mon you can give us a more precise figure than that.

150 < x < 200, x ∈ N

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-02-2010 05:53PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'll have you know I have nearly 200 facebook friends!

bonerm wrote: »

C'mon you can give us a more precise figure than that.

20.0

Antbert · 14-02-2010 05:55PM

How about you just... Don't invite them to parties?

bonerm · 14-02-2010 06:02PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

150 < x < 200, x ∈ N

That's even less precise that I credited you with. I figured you'd say

195 < x < 200, x ∈ N

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-02-2010 06:02PM

Antbert wrote: »

How about you just... Don't invite them to parties?

... and therein lies the other problem: no one invites them, they get even more socialyl introverted and the enxt thing you know, they've got a gun and a grudge to settle.

GLaDOS · 14-02-2010 06:04PM

bonerm wrote: »

That's even less precise that I credited you with. I figured you'd say

195 < x < 200, x ∈ N

I find the ladies like a bit of mystery

El Siglo · 14-02-2010 06:13PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I find the ladies like a bit of mystery

Or perhaps you find them: i² = -1

Mr Benevolent · 14-02-2010 07:19PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

I never said it was.

I myself can't do maths. Or physics. Or tie my shoelaces

I make up for it in other areas though, computers, biology, fisting.

FYP

wylo · 14-02-2010 07:35PM

I dont know if I would call myself intelligent, I lack cop on at times, i.e. little things like constantly forgetting where I left something,etc, I have a bit of reputation for it. But I am a very deep thinker, I love discussing and reading about philosophy, politics, science. I love music, from listening to producing and performing. I have also been told by friends that I am way too logical at times. I am constantly trying to break things down logically, and I always tend to argue points to people, even when I agree with them,I always insist on having to point out the 'other side' to it.
I was going down that path of poor social skills but I think I have managed to claw out of it and have found a balance. I think people like that must make a concious effort as oppose to naturally socially intelligent people.

Riddle101 · 14-02-2010 07:37PM

When I think of this thread I think of that damn The Big Bang Theory. I keep having flashing images of Sheldon Cooper trying to have a conversation at the OPs party.

Anyway I think there are different ways for a person to be the way the OP describes his friends. Some people are naturally born with confidence and become good communicators, while others aren't and can be shy. It could also be through development too. When I was a kid, I was very confident, I was always talking to people and making friends, but now I'm shy, quite and cynical, and prefer to just listen to others talking. I don't know why i'm like that but I believe it may have been from some events in my life that caused me to become less chatty. Others could be shy and quite when they were younger but grow into more confident adults as well. Anyway that's how I believe it.

El Siglo · 14-02-2010 07:49PM

I get chatty with people after a few 'social' drinks, but other than that I'm pretty quiet. Intelligence, I'm not quite sure (I'd like to think of myself as having some sort of intelligence). I think the problem with some people is that they get wrapped up in their work or study and that's all they see themselves as. Then when it comes to social situations they're not able to deal with people and look weird or whatever.

hooradiation · 14-02-2010 08:06PM

aDeener wrote: »

Oh because they are so time consuming and eventually no lunch is ever eaten.... bloody hell that spreadsheet thing is fcuking lame

Wow, i wish i could be cool like you but.... wait no that's not right.
You're silly.

Stop being silly.

Red_Marauder · 14-02-2010 08:25PM

Antbert wrote: »

How about you just... Don't invite them to parties?

I did say it wasn't an intended invitation.

As it happened, it would have been rude not to invite them in.

Red_Marauder · 14-02-2010 08:32PM

wylo wrote: »

I dont know if I would call myself intelligent, I lack cop on at times, i.e. little things like constantly forgetting where I left something,etc, I have a bit of reputation for it. But I am a very deep thinker, I love discussing and reading about philosophy, politics, science. I love music, from listening to producing and performing. I have also been told by friends that I am way too logical at times. I am constantly trying to break things down logically, and I always tend to argue points to people, even when I agree with them,I always insist on having to point out the 'other side' to it.
I was going down that path of poor social skills but I think I have managed to claw out of it and have found a balance. I think people like that must make a concious effort as oppose to naturally socially intelligent people.

I think that's an interesting point. Being logically intelligent doesn't automatically infer social ineptitude... rather, logical intelligence does often demand a bit more effort to avoid the abandonment of ones social development.

WB Yeats' measure of a man was not in any particular aspect of his strength, but in how balanced he was in his abilities. I think balance is the key thing to get right here.

chapod21 · 14-02-2010 08:32PM

El Siglo wrote: »

Or perhaps you find them: i² = -1

God this is sad but I think thats hilarious

btard · 14-02-2010 09:31PM

Don’t be too hard on your friends. What you see as easy and normal is extremely hard for them, if not impossible. As they get older they may learn how to fake the inane small talk that comes natural to neurotypicals They will smile and sometimes even laugh along with the rest of the sheep at social gatherings. When somebody talks total shyte to them they will bite their tongue, nod, smile and pretend to see the sense in the total nonsense they know is being spouted at them. All the time they will be counting the minutes to when they can make their exit without being noticed too much. As they make their early goodbyes they will engage in the usual banter, giving no hint that they are screaming inside. No hint at how much faking ‘normal’ has taken out of them. No hint at the rage burning inside them at having to dumb down in order to fit in. They will learn to do all this in order not to embarrass close family members at social gatherings or appear ‘odd’ to their work colleagues and bosses.

I envy your friends. They have not yet learned the necessity of hiding their difference. They are not bound by the rules of what clothes to wear, making people like them, trying to adhere to thousands of seemingly useless and bizarre social rules. Some of them are the type who will push the frontiers of our time and develop amazing new technologies. Others will create dazzling works of art or maybe even find a cure for cancer. This is because they can think outside the box and be innovative. They see what’s possible and say why not, never, what will people think of me? One thing they will never be able to do is impress your granny at a party.

Yet others will not be able to adapt to a world that values social interaction and conformity above everything else. They will exercise the only real freedom they have and delete themselves.

Normal or neurotypical people may see and refer to them as socially retarded/damaged/disabled in some way. They’re not, they just see the world differently. In lots of ways they see more clearly and further than most people could even imagine. Think of them as cats not defective dogs.

If you really want to know what’s going on with your socially inept but otherwise intelligent friends do some research and google Einstein, Newton, Bill Gates and Aspies.

Td;lr They’re cats not defective dogs.

Prof.Badass · 15-02-2010 12:42AM

btard wrote: »

Don’t be too hard on your friends. What you see as easy and normal is extremely hard for them, if not impossible. As they get older they may learn how to fake the inane small talk that comes natural to neurotypicals They will smile and sometimes even laugh along with the rest of the sheep at social gatherings. When somebody talks total shyte to them they will bite their tongue, nod, smile and pretend to see the sense in the total nonsense they know is being spouted at them. All the time they will be counting the minutes to when they can make their exit without being noticed too much. As they make their early goodbyes they will engage in the usual banter, giving no hint that they are screaming inside. No hint at how much faking ‘normal’ has taken out of them. No hint at the rage burning inside them at having to dumb down in order to fit in. They will learn to do all this in order not to embarrass close family members at social gatherings or appear ‘odd’ to their work colleagues and bosses.

I envy your friends. They have not yet learned the necessity of hiding their difference. They are not bound by the rules of what clothes to wear, making people like them, trying to adhere to thousands of seemingly useless and bizarre social rules. Some of them are the type who will push the frontiers of our time and develop amazing new technologies. Others will create dazzling works of art or maybe even find a cure for cancer. This is because they can think outside the box and be innovative. They see what’s possible and say why not, never, what will people think of me? One thing they will never be able to do is impress your granny at a party.

Yet others will not be able to adapt to a world that values social interaction and conformity above everything else. They will exercise the only real freedom they have and delete themselves.

Normal or neurotypical people may see and refer to them as socially retarded/damaged/disabled in some way. They’re not, they just see the world differently. In lots of ways they see more clearly and further than most people could even imagine. Think of them as cats not defective dogs.

If you really want to know what’s going on with your socially inept but otherwise intelligent friends do some research and google Einstein, Newton, Bill Gates and Aspies.

Td;lr They’re cats not defective dogs.

Just because the people described in the OP are a bit geeky doesn't mean you have to go the whole hog and assume they have aspergers.

If they spent a little more time pondering on social interactions and less time pondering on physics/star trek/whatever, who knows? after a while they might start becoming more socially intelligent than most of us.
To assume that mere common geeks qualify for aspergers is an unfair cheapening of a genuine condition and the reason a lot of people think aspergers is a load of nonsense.

I'd also imagine the people in the OP would be quite offended if they knew what you were saying about them...

Logical Intelligence and Social Intelligence

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