Do christians believe animals go to heaven?

Dean820

Or is it just humans?

Fanny Cradock

That all depends upon whether you think an animal's soul is material or transcendent. I favour the latter.

kelly1

Personally I don't see the point in having animals in heaven. Since God alone will make us entirely happy in heaven, who would need animals? God has no need of animals and neither would we.

Jesus never mentioned anything about animals having a spiritual soul. They might well have some kind of non-spiritual soul.

Saint Ruth

For Catholics, then the answer is No doggies in heaven...

It's not Dogma, so I suppose a Catholic could believe Spot is up there...

lostboy

i was thinking about this myself.

Dean820

Okay here's another unusual question; do people not eat in Heaven? Well we usually use fruits, veg and animals to eat.

homer911

My understanding is "no" but some thoughts are less clear..

http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html

actuallylike

How do we know what has a soul and doesn't? Just because animals are beneath us, they still have decent traits like taking care of and feeding their family, just because we don't communicate with them how come we can say they don't have a soul?
On that note, what about insects, etc.? On another note, what about some viruses? They are living organisms as well? Will they be up in heaven? Relatively speaking, when the size of the universe is considered, we are about as important as athletes foot fungus.

homer911

actuallylike wrote: »

How do we know what has a soul and doesn't? Just because animals are beneath us, they still have decent traits like taking care of and feeding their family, just because we don't communicate with them how come we can say they don't have a soul?
On that note, what about insects, etc.? On another note, what about some viruses? They are living organisms as well? Will they be up in heaven? Relatively speaking, when the size of the universe is considered, we are about as important as athletes foot fungus.

Thats why most/all Christians would say that only humans have a soul - otherwise where do you draw a line.

Interesting wiki entry here on Animism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism

doctoremma

homer911 wrote: »

Thats why most/all Christians would say that only humans have a soul - otherwise where do you draw a line.

Where do you draw the line at what is human? Were Neanderthals human enough to have a soul? What about the other species of the Homo genus?

actuallylike

doctoremma wrote: »

Where do you draw the line at what is human? Were Neanderthals human enough to have a soul? What about the other species of the Homo genus?

I reckon Christians who don't believe in evolution can avoid this line of thought.

Soul Winner

Well according to the book of Revelation there are a lot of horses in heaven at least because Jesus returns riding on a white one and so do all His saints behind Him.

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Revelation 19:11-16

chozometroid

Soul Winner wrote: »

Well according to the book of Revelation there are a lot of horses in heaven at least because Jesus returns riding on a white one and so do all His saints behind Him.

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Revelation 19:11-16

I always saw this as symbolic, being part of a vision. It also says "eyes were of flame of fire" and "out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword" which both do not warrant literal interpretation.

doctoremma

actuallylike wrote: »

I reckon Christians who don't believe in evolution can avoid this line of thought.

Sure, but there are some Christians who accept evolution, no? And even among those who don't, do they deny the existence of Homo neanderthalensis outright? Or count it as an animal? Or accept as human?

I've never thought of this before - it's quite engaging.

doctoremma

chozometroid wrote: »

I always saw this as symbolic, being part of a vision. It also says "eyes were of flame of fire" and "out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword" which both do not warrant literal interpretation.

Hmm, I can easily see the symoblism of "eyes of fire" (passion, determination etc) and "swords out of mouths" (the absolute word, which will rule men etc) but what might the white horses represent?

actuallylike

doctoremma wrote: »

Sure, but there are some Christians who accept evolution, no? And even among those who don't, do they deny the existence of Homo neanderthalensis outright? Or count it as an animal? Or accept as human?

I've never thought of this before - it's quite engaging.

It's stumped me as well, as a weak atheist I don't really think about it that much but I'd be interested in hearing what a priest or someone has to say, not to argue or anything but just because I'm not educated in the Bible so I'd be interested in what someone with a strong belief and knowledge of their faith has to say
...
...
anyone?

actuallylike

doctoremma wrote: »

Hmm, I can easily see the symoblism of "eyes of fire" (passion, determination etc) and "swords out of mouths" (the absolute word, which will rule men etc) but what might the white horses represent?

Isn't the Book of Revelations denounced by a lot of Christians as the ramblings of a mad man? Tried reading it a while ago, got around three words in before I felt dizzy!

Fanny Cradock

actuallylike wrote: »

Isn't the Book of Revelations denounced by a lot of Christians as the ramblings of a mad man? Tried reading it a while ago, got around three words in before I felt dizzy!

No! Though it is recognised a a very difficult book to decipher. That why we have people believing in the Rapture and whatnot.

doctoremma

Bump.

Just because I'd be really interested to hear how people classify other members of the Homo genus and their souls.

herbiemcc

It's an interesting one. As nobody yet knows exactly what or where the 'soul' or 'consciousness' actually is in our physical make up.

If we don't know where it is in ourselves, how can we say for certain where it isn't re: animals etc?

trustno1

Just threw the question into google and thought this response was interesting - I am an atheist myself, but a curious one!:

"Do animals have souls? Will I see my pet in heaven?"
Answer:
In the past few decades, scientists have proven beyond any doubt that some species of animals possess intelligence. Porpoises and whales can communicate with other members of their species through audible language. Dogs can be trained to do relatively complex tasks. Gorillas have even been taught to form simple sentences using sign language.
Animal rights activists point to this intelligence to claim that all creatures have equal rights to life and to certain treatment. Some activists even bristle when someone says they own a pet. They prefer the term "caretaker."
But does animal intelligence constitute a soul? Does a pet’s emotions and ability to relate to human beings mean that animals possess an immortal spirit that will survive after death?
Theologians say no. They point out that man was created superior to animals and that animals can’t be equal with him.
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26, NIV)
Most interpreters of the Bible assume that man’s likeness to God and animals’ subservience to man implies that animals may have the "breath of life," nephesh in Hebrew, but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s.
Later in Genesis we read that by God’s command, Adam and Eve were vegetarians. There is no mention that they ate animal flesh:
And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." (Genesis 2:16-17, NIV)
After the flood, God gave Noah and his sons permission to kill and eat animals:
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." (Genesis 9:3, NIV)
In Leviticus, God instructs Moses on animals that are suitable for sacrifice:
"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.'" (Leviticus 1:2, NIV)
Later in that chapter God includes birds as acceptable offerings and adds grains as well. Except for the consecration of all firstborn animals in Exodus 13, we do not see the sacrifice of dogs, cats, horses, mules or donkeys in the Bible. Dogs are mentioned many times in Scripture but cats are not. Perhaps that’s because they were favorite pets in Egypt and were associated with pagan religion.
God prohibited the killing of man ("You shall not murder," Exodus 20:13) but he placed no such restriction on the killing of animals. Man is made in God’s image, so man must not kill one of his own kind. Animals, it would seem, are different from man. If they do have a "soul" that survives death, it is different from man’s. It does not need redemption. Christ died to save the souls of human beings, not animals.
Even so, the prophet Isaiah says God will include animals in the new heavens and new earth:
"The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, says the LORD." (Isaiah 65: 25, NIV)
In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, the apostle John’s vision of heaven also included animals, showing Christ and the armies of heaven "riding on white horses." (Revelation 19:14, NIV)
Most of us can't picture a paradise of unspeakable beauty without flowers, trees, and animals. Would it be heaven for an avid birdwatcher if there are no birds? Would a fisherman want to spend eternity with no fish? And would it be heaven for a cowboy without horses?
While theologians may be stubborn in classifying animals' "souls" as inferior to those of humans, those learned scholars must admit that descriptions of heaven in the Bible are sketchy at best. The Bible does not give a definitive answer on the question of whether we will see our pets in heaven, but it does say, "... with God, all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26, NIV)
My Cairn Terrier, Charlie, is an important part of my life and I often feel he is a gift God has given me. You probably feel the same way about your pet.
That’s why I like the story about the elderly widow whose beloved little dog died after fifteen faithful years. Distraught, she went to her pastor.
"Parson," she said, tears streaming down her cheeks, "the vicar said animals have no souls. My darling little dog Fluffy has died. Does that mean I won’t see her again in heaven?" "Madam," said the old priest, "God, in his great love and wisdom has created heaven to be a place of perfect happiness. I am sure that if you need your little dog to complete your happiness, you will find her there."

kelly1

doctoremma wrote: »

Sure, but there are some Christians who accept evolution, no? And even among those who don't, do they deny the existence of Homo neanderthalensis outright? Or count it as an animal? Or accept as human?

I've never thought of this before - it's quite engaging.

I accept evolution as many Catholics would.

The difference with human beings, beginning with Adam and Eve, is that God gave them an immortal spiritual souls (as opposed to mortal souls). When the bible says that man was formed from the clay, it could mean that God formed man from existing Homosapiens. I would classify Neanderthals or homosapiens without spirits as animals.

Alternatively, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that God formed man's body directly.

herbiemcc

For me, the bible extract above doesn't really help me much. There are so many interpretations of every line of the bible that I find it hard to ascertain any concrete or detailed conclusions about things like whether a chimpanzee has a soul.

Can animals think? If they can actually 'think' are they really all that different to us.

They may not consider their place in the world etc but even if they think about their other companions or how they might go about getting dinner etc it's still very impressive.

I was at the zoo last year and like most people I'm always amazed by the gorillas, orangutans and chimpanzees etc. I was watching an elderly female gorilla as she sat with her back against the thick glass between us. She was fiddling with a piece of grass in her hand and then slowly moving her finger through the dust on the ground making little lines. She was aimlessly doing this while also at times calmly looking around.

It was exactly like a human sitting in a waiting room or something. A dog may lick itself or sit panting which doesn't suggest much in the way of thoughtfulness but the way she would glance round at visitors, hold their gaze for a while and then look around her or fiddle with grass was just eerily similar to humans.

I know this is only anecdotal but it looked as aware and thoughtful as any person I've ever seen.

It seems dismissive to say, "well I've got a book that says I'm better than you, so you don't have a soul" (whatever a soul is - if anyone can define it I'd be interested).

herbiemcc

Hi Kelly1

I'm just wondering where would you 'draw the line' between animals with mortal souls. Is it the ones that display intelligence or 'thoughfulness'? While insects etc don't.

Genuinely curious.

kelly1

herbiemcc wrote: »

Hi Kelly1

I'm just wondering where would you 'draw the line' between animals with mortal souls. Is it the ones that display intelligence or 'thoughfulness'? While insects etc don't.

Genuinely curious.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the line between creatures with spiritual souls and those with mortal souls?

I believe that humans alone have immortal/spiritual souls because only created immortal souls in humans. There is nothing in Scripture to suggest the God gave other creatures souls.

herbiemcc

Sorry when you said;

"...God gave them an immortal spiritual souls (as opposed to mortal souls)."

I thought you meant that the difference is that animals have mortal souls but humans have immortal souls.

Do you mean there's no such thing as a mortal soul but only immortal/spiritual souls as given by God? If so why talk about immortal souls as opposed to something else?

kelly1

herbiemcc wrote: »

Sorry when you said;

"...God gave them an immortal spiritual souls (as opposed to mortal souls)."

I thought you meant that the difference is that animals have mortal souls but humans have immortal souls.

Do you mean there's no such thing as a mortal soul but only immortal/spiritual souls as given by God? If so why talk about immortal souls as opposed to something else?

What I'm saying is that humans have immortal souls because human souls are spiritual and spirits cannot be destroyed. Animals have non-spiritual souls which I suppose could be called some kind of "life-force" but the animal dies when their soul dies. I'm not really sure about the animal soul stuff but I don't believe that animals have a spiritual soul because God doesn't give them one.

herbiemcc

Fair enough. I get you now. So no pets in heaven then for you?

I wonder what it's really like in Heaven - there are so many opinions on who is in heaven, what it's like and where it is. Some people are gonna be really pissed off when they see it !!!

I suppose I find the whole soul idea interesting as both science and religion have never located it. It's a sort of mystical element in the human make up. It is really weird how you could open up and brain or do an MRI and see what all the areas do, memory, vision, speech etc but you can't say "there's where it's all put together into consciousness".

Sam Harris mentioned how we feel consciousness, like our 'being' is "somewhere behind our eyes". It struck me that is true. I wonder is this just because our eyes are there. If our eyes where in our knees would we feel 'conscious' somewhere in our knees.

It's a mind boggling question and also raises the question of mental health. Does a person, severely brain damaged from birth, have a soul? Is it somehow restored to working order upon entering Heaven and if so how would they know themselves?

Ramble over ...

Xluna

doctoremma wrote: »

Where do you draw the line at what is human? Were Neanderthals human enough to have a soul? What about the other species of the Homo genus?

Some religious people genuinely are open to the possibilitythat God,angels and demons are infact aliens and it could have happened like this.

Soul Winner

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

No! Though it is recognised a a very difficult book to decipher. That why we have people believing in the Rapture and whatnot.

As far as I know most Christians who believe in Rapture would base their belief in texts from other parts of the New Testament without even referring to the book of Revelation, like the "Two men in a bed, one taken and the other left" text from the Gospels, or the "in the twinkling of an eye" and "at the last trump" texts in Paul's epistles. I believe that Revelation does point to the Rapture in the first verse of chapter 4 but I haven't met many other Christians who hold to the same view or in fact who hold the view that any passage in Revelation refers to the Rapture. Sorry off topic

Soul Winner

Xluna wrote: »

Some religious people genuinely are open to the possibilitythat God,angels and demons are infact aliens and it could have happened like this.

Strange you should mention that. Check out this Coast to Coast interview with Graham Hancock, author of Fingerprints of the Gods, who states that mankind got a kick start into consciousness by some outside supernatural source circa 40,000 years ago and points to cave paintings which have been carbon dated to that time as evidence. Really interesting listening (if you can spare 40+ mins) reagrdless of whether you end up agreeing with him or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Za8fMjo8U

EDIT: More here sorry...