Firearm substitution

Irish Springer

Hi, recently applied for a firearm substitution, question is how long does it usually take?

Its a like for like swap, 12G shotgun for a newer one. Cert that old gun was in dealers, cert to say bought new gun from dealer all attached to application, its taken 11 working days and only got letter today to say they received the application. :eek:

How much longer should it take??

boc121

I have one in since novenber 10, not a sausage. Who knows

Irish Springer

That really is taking the piss, i know its a new system and will have teething problems but its only a 5 minute job to do(FO told me this)

greenpeter

Chase them up lads it should only take a few days, got my rifle changed in 2 days. Are ye still on the old license?

Irish Springer

No mine was the new licence, FO not back until tomorrow, i was thinking it should only take a few days by the time things get posted.

Cass

I got all my licenses back on 29th October. Submitted my FCA1, for a like for like change on my .308 rifle, on the 4th November (approx). Got a letter 5 working days later to say my application for a .308 rifle was received. I rang my FO that evening to make sure that the application was being treated as a substitution not a new one. He said the letter was a standardised letter and the application was being processed as a substitution. 3 days later i got my new license. Less than 2 weeks in total.

The guidelines state that a like for like substitution should be processed in a timely manner (max 14 days). In my case it was. Just make sure when filling out your FCA1 you have ticked the substitution box and that the application is not being processed as a new application. Ring up your FO and check the status if you are concerned, but patience (to a degree) is always best.

Irish Springer

Well thats good to here about the standardised letter, as it it said 'decision will normally be communicated before 18/4/2010! :eek:

Yeah ticked all the right boxes, substitution, and FO know this as he said it was the first substitution that they have had to process through the new system.

Hopefully i'll hear something in the next few days.

Dusty87

I put in a new application on the 23rd of December for my first riflr, a .223. Got the recieved letter 2 weeks later, got the granted letter a day later. Depends on station i think.

Cass

That was a brand new application Dusty, what Irish Springer was asking about was when you receive your new license how long does it take to do a subtitution.

Irish Springer

All ok now, got cert in post this morning, went and picked up gun this afternoon and sitting here looking at it, like a child with a new toy!!

Cass

Congrats.

fish slapped

enjoy:D

mrhd

What are the rules guidelines for substitutions. Is it strictly like for like only. I have a 12g and a .220 lr cert. I was thinking of trading in the rifle against another 12g. Would I be able to sub the 12g onto the .220 cert or am I looking at a new application and another €80

Cass

Sorry to tell you mrhd its not a like for like substitution so its classed as a new application and another €80.

Substitutions are only for like for like calibres. Even changing a .22 for a (say) .308, even though both are rifles, is not a substitution its a new application.

In your situation, changing the .22 rifle for a shotgun, means canceling the license for the rifle (unless you transfer it to another rifle) using an FCA2 and applying for the shotgun on the FCA1.

mrhd

in that case I will hang onto the .220 until closer to the cert expiry

freddieot

The substitutions arrangements are termed 'like for like' or 'for similar firearms' but my understanding is that it does not state that they must be the exact same calibre.

Clearly a shotgun v a rifle is not like for like. A semi auto 308 for a bolt action .22 is not like for like but I can't see anywhere why you can't substitute say one bolt action .243 for a bolt action .223 (both unrestricted rifles) or a 7mm for a 308 etc. That's the whole point of substitution and you then don't have to pay the €80 again.

The layout of the FCA1 would seem to support this as you enter the type\ details of the existing firearm and on the next page, the new details including calibre type of the substitution firearm.

The Supt has the option to object to the substitution just as he has with any firearm licence. Or maybe I'm wrong, would not be the first time

Cass

Far be it from me to argue a point as i've been wrong probably as many times as i've been right, but like for like in my experience has always been same caliber for same caliber. You could change a semi auto .223 for a bolt action .223 with little to no problems, but as each individual caliber requires a license i cannot see how you could change a .223 for .308.

In the old system you could always change down caliber from say a .270 to .243. To change up though required a new application. Some lads have said how they done the changeover upwards in caliber with no trouble either as i done this once myself. However since the introduction of the new system the "personal" factor in license changing at Garda stations has all but disappeared. Each change in caliber (different calibers) now must be accompanied with the applicants "good reason" for requiring the change in caliber.

1964 11

Change of firearm

to which firearm

certificate relates.

[FONT=Calibri,Bold]
[FONT=Calibri,Bold]

11.

[/FONT]
[/FONT]

—(1) Subject to subsection (3) of this section, the Minister or the

commissioner may substitute for the description of a firearm in a firearm

certificate granted by him or her

(2006 54) the description of another firearm and,

upon such substitution, the certificate shall have effect in relation to that other
firearm and shall not have effect in relation to the first-mentioned firearm.

My interpretation of the above paragraph would be that a substitution may be made for a another firearm that is the same (caliber) of the firearm described on the firearm certificate/license.
Thats not to say a person could not submit an FCA1 and tick the substitution box and hope for the best, but if it is not satisfactory then you risk waiting a few weeks for the application to be returned and resubmitted as a brand new application.

freddieot

You could well be right. To me it looks like one that's open a bit to interpretation.

In the past I've substituted a few times, over different calibres. 243 to 6.5, 6mm to 223 etc. It's never been automatic for want of a better word and has always been after the usual explaining the requirement to the FO etc.

Need to do it again soon so I'll let you know how I get on

Puptoes

Hi, I have bought a new 12g shot gun to replace an older one, so substituting one 12g for another. My question is do i need to fill in the entire FCA1 form and submit photos etc. I know you don't need to give referees again but it aint clear whether you need to give all the info again. Bit of a pain when they have all my details already.

Cass

• Section 1 - Tick substitution, and "I have not held a cert............".
• Section 2 - All of it.
• Section 2.4 - All of it.
• Section 3.1 - Input the details of new gun here.
• Section 3.3 - Input dealers details.
• Section 3.4 - Input your current firearm details here.
• Section 3.5 - All of it.
• Section 4.1 - All of it.
• Section 4.2 - All of it.
• Section 4.3 - If a member of a club/range.
• Section 5.1 - Tick box.
• Sign and date it.

Think that's it all.

Puptoes

Thanks Cass, do i need to submit a photo?

Cass

I would. Better to submit them than have it sent back looking for them.

Puptoes

will do thanks

meathstevie

Cass wrote: »

Sorry to tell you mrhd its not a like for like substitution so its classed as a new application and another €80.

Substitutions are only for like for like calibres. Even changing a .22 for a (say) .308, even though both are rifles, is not a substitution its a new application.

In your situation, changing the .22 rifle for a shotgun, means canceling the license for the rifle (unless you transfer it to another rifle) using an FCA2 and applying for the shotgun on the FCA1.

I had a different experience changing a .22 hornet to a .308. All in all it was like freddieot explained above. When I got the deer licence sorted about a year and a half ago. Local Sergeant applied the following logic: unrestricted rifle for unrestricted rifle and good reason for change in caliber, no change in other relevant circumstances, substitution recommended and all was done and dusted in two weeks.

Cass

Fair play lad.

I always give the above info because if i tell someone that they can definitely substitute the guns, and they can't, then i look like a dick, and they get hit with an unexpected fee. If in doubt fill in two FCA1's. One as a sub, and the other a new application. Try the sub, and if it fails do the new application.


But you are right. Some districts read the rules as you described. Others won't even sub a .22 for hornet. Different strokes.

meathstevie

Cass wrote: »

Fair play lad.

I always give the above info because if i tell someone that they can definitely substitute the guns, and they can't, then i look like a dick, and they get hit with an unexpected fee. If in doubt fill in two FCA1's. One as a sub, and the other a new application. Try the sub, and if it fails do the new application.


But you are right. Some districts read the rules as you described. Others won't even sub a .22 for hornet. Different strokes.

Ah well, the day Ireland becomes a place of consistency and predictability it'll be fecked altogether...

session savage

I put in a like for like substitution mid September for my shotgun and got it back Tuesday last. 7 MONTHS! ! ! And a whole season missed. Ah well. I have it now.

mikeyboo

anyone if i can go from a 12g semi auto to a 12g over and under. need help/info asap please??

deerhunter1

mikeyboo wrote: »

anyone if i can go from a 12g semi auto to a 12g over and under. need help/info asap please??

yes no issues

Cass

Just done it myself a few months ago. No issues at all.

mikeyboo

got it sorted my local templemore said no to it but got it done in thurles

Nekarsulm

mikeyboo wrote: »

got it sorted my local templemore said no to it but got it done in thurles

Brings to mind the uproar when a radio journalist went to confession in several churches, confessed the same "sins" and published the results and best location, penance wise! :rolleyes:

mikeyboo

got it in the door this morning