Clare GAA discussion thread

deaddonkey15

Figerty wrote: »

I'll only agree with you on one point and that is the setup is wrong. That's the reason the ball comes straight out. If you cant see that then you should be on the sideline with Davy...
Double marking makes it difficult to score,, I'm sure you get that.. that's why he is double marked..

If your Aunt was a cross-dresser she would still be your Aunt.. Asking Shane O'Donnell to play against two will leave him exposed to having to go out the field to hunt. He is a poacher, always will be.

1 point in the U21 Munster final last year, and arguably the most senior player on the pitch. No nonsense systems that day. Bullied by Richie English who was playing minor the year before. He isn't senior inter county standard.

keeponhurling

O'Donnell won a couple of scoreable frees I guess

If you look at the whole forward line:

Conlon - poor, scoreless
Podge - poor, scoreless
Shanagher - scoreless
O'Donnell - scoreless
Kelly - played some nice passes but I think only 1 point from play. Missed some scoreable frees and generally wasteful

That is the problem there, you're not going to win matches without a forward line

Partly down to good defending and the Galway backs hunting in packs. But also down to poor play, shooting and decision making

windy shepard henderson

the fact that no tactical change has been put in place after several championship defeats is incredible no plan b at any stage again , plus why have a bench if you are not going to us them

Keano

More spoofing by our manger after the match! He's in a world of his own and should step aside if he really does love Clare hurling

Gael85

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

the fact that no tactical change has been put in place after several championship defeats is incredible no plan b at any stage again , plus why have a bench if you are not going to us them

Same old tactics. You have to wonder has Donal Og much input with tactics? They were more direct at start of year with John Conlon inside however he hasn't been the same since returned from injury. Goals win games and playing the sweeper Clare will struggle to score goals. Since scoring 4 goals against Kilkenny in league semi Clare have only scored 6 goals in 6 games. They scored 5 goals(all against Laois) in 4 championship games. That is not good enough to beat the top teams.

Figerty

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

the fact that no tactical change has been put in place after several championship defeats is incredible no plan b at any stage again , plus why have a bench if you are not going to us them

This is true.
It was also a credit to Galway that the marked David Riedy with a Corner back at midfield to shut down possession and Johnny Coen scored.
Also pressurising Cian Dillon was also key. It's obvious that Cian Dillon role as sweeper was to deliver to a target. Cutting out that supply took John Conlon out of the game in any real effective manner.
It's disappointing that Galway were able to negate Clare and leave us floundering for ideas. I'm not sure after today what Donal Og brought to the table? The formulaic puckouts were expensive, there didn't seem to be an ability to unlock Galway.

keeponhurling

That goal at the start of the 2nd half, just painful viewing. Straight down the middle.

windy shepard henderson

Figerty wrote: »

This is true.
It was also a credit to Galway that the marked David Riedy with a Corner back at midfield to shut down possession and Johnny Coen scored.
Also pressurising Cian Dillon was also key. It's obvious that Cian Dillon role as sweeper was to deliver to a target. Cutting out that supply took John Conlon out of the game in any real effective manner.
It's disappointing that Galway were able to negate Clare and leave us floundering for ideas. I'm not sure after today what Donal Og brought to the table? The formulaic puckouts were expensive, there didn't seem to be an ability to unlock Galway.

yeah galway got the tactics spot on especially in the first half , they did open the door for us in the second at times but we did not help ourselves . alot of the time again today players didnt know what to do , to go long or to pass short , we also got caught in possession far too often , and in an almost reverse of 3 years ago for every breaking ball skirmish a galway player came away from the ruck with the ball

yes galway were the far more hungry team but that aside we gave ourselves no chance once again with tactics , not one club in the county adaptes those type of tactics , its ok for football teams in the north to be defensive especially if they play that way at club level , clare need to go back to basics and if someone like colm galvin or podge shane o'donnell or whoever has to lose out for a more orthodox player well so be it,

Reputable Rog

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

yeah galway got the tactics spot on especially in the first half , they did open the door for us in the second at times but we did not help ourselves . alot of the time again today players didnt know what to do , to go long or to pass short , we also got caught in possession far too often , and in an almost reverse of 3 years ago for every breaking ball skirmish a galway player came away from the ruck with the ball

yes galway were the far more hungry team but that aside we gave ourselves no chance once again with tactics , not one club in the county adaptes those type of tactics , its ok for football teams in the north to be defensive especially if they play that way at club level , clare need to go back to basics and if someone like colm galvin or podge shane o'donnell or whoever has to lose out for a more orthodox player well so be it,

Galvin is a classic attacking centre fielder regardless of the system. In fact in the last quarter when they abandoned the tactics, he really opened up.

letowski

I agree with people about Davys comments, the way he sets up his team is fundamentally all wrong.

When Galway pushed up on us we had no answer how to use the ball. After we failed with long puck outs, we ended up completely forcing it by trying to work short under max pressure up the lines. We were doomed from the start imo, and compounded by having no plan b. The management have to take some accountability for the mess of a performance, where like against Waterford, we were tactically completely distroyed by the opposing management. Could we not have just put Conlon and Shanagher on both wings and work off them or something, we could maybe have got onto 50 50 ball. Davy is the most incredibly stubborn person, how a manager can just stand there and do nothing, while watching his team badly struggle with his game plan is beyond me.
But maybe he has known this type of performance was coming, he had his excuses in on Off The Ball a couple of days ago, saying we should be happy with how the team is going. Im fed up anyway, that 1st half was b*llox.

Kristopherus

Just back from a long drive to and from Thurles. I have just 2 words to say about today's disaster - DAVY OUT:mad::mad::mad:

windy shepard henderson

Kristopherus wrote: »

Just back from a long drive to and from Thurles. I have just 2 words to say about today's disaster - DAVY OUT:mad::mad::mad:

i genuinely don't mind who coach's this side , tactically things have to change , they were right on there criticism on the sunday game but if fitz stays for another year he has to change things to a more orthodox game plan,

this is not soccer after all it would be harsh to get rid of a manager who won our first league in 40 years or that and in truth preparation all week could be excused for today

but in the overall context everything tactically is wrong about this current set up and if he wants to stay he has to change ,.....but i think he will leave before the year is out , however if it were cusack to take over nothing drastic would change ....donal maloney and gerry o'connor all day for me if there is change

Limestone Cowboy

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i genuinely don't mind who coach's this side , tactically things have to change , they were right on there criticism on the sunday game but if fitz stays for another year he has to change things to a more orthodox game plan,

this is not soccer after all it would be harsh to get rid of a manager who won our first league in 40 years or that and in truth preparation all week could be excused for today

but in the overall context everything tactically is wrong about this current set up and if he wants to stay he has to change ,.....but i think he will leave before the year is out , however if it were cusack to take over nothing drastic would change ....donal maloney and gerry o'connor all day for me if there is change

Davy's not for changing. We are doing the same crap we were 3 years ago. A new face and a new viewpoint is what's needed. Maloney and O'Connor for me too, they were always able to get the best out of this bunch of players.

windy shepard henderson

letowski wrote: »

I agree with people about Davys comments, the way he sets up his team is fundamentally all wrong.

When Galway pushed up on us we had no answer how to use the ball. After we failed with long puck outs, we ended up completely forcing it by trying to work short under max pressure up the lines. We were doomed from the start imo, and compounded by having no plan b. The management have to take some accountability for the mess of a performance, where like against Waterford, we were tactically completely distroyed by the opposing management. Could we not have just put Conlon and Shanagher on both wings and work off them or something, we could maybe have got onto 50 50 ball. Davy is the most incredibly stubborn person, how a manager can just stand there and do nothing, while watching his team badly struggle with his game plan is beyond me.
But maybe he has known this type of performance was coming, he had his excuses in on Off The Ball a couple of days ago, saying we should be happy with how the team is going. Im fed up anyway, that 1st half was b*llox.

there is rarely an argument on this thread mainly because everyone is sick of singing from the same hymm sheet , great players clueless tactics more disappointment in thurles , whtehr its 2014, 15 or 20016 its becoming very frustrating now

the man united surporters use a quote form an early 90s song " if i had'nt seen such riches i could live with being poor " .... i think we got the loan of a wallet for a year and have being paying for it since :rolleyes:

windy shepard henderson

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Galvin is a classic attacking centre fielder regardless of the system. In fact in the last quarter when they abandoned the tactics, he really opened up.

fair point and he had a good game today , he stuck to the system and at times his passing went astray but i supose he was doing what he was told

the truth is between reidy galvin podge and kelly you have 4 fairly similar players , and as far as inside scoring forwards go shane o'donnell dose not get enough scores , again not his fault the system works against him too look at maruice shannahan for waterford today , he nearly broke his neck watching balls go over his head today

but in truth if we do go back to a 15 v 15 game there might not be room for everyone in the current 15 to start , look at the dublin footballers or kilkenny in the last 10 years they always had alike for like sub to bring on , i would prefer to see us to be able to bring on lets say galvin for reidy , podge for o'donnell or whoever instead of playing with 4 roaming midfielders

Noveight

keeponhurling wrote: »

If you look at the whole forward line:

Conlon - poor, scoreless
Podge - poor, scoreless
Shanagher - scoreless
O'Donnell - scoreless
Kelly - played some nice passes but I think only 1 point from play

That's all the punditry you'd need to summarize our day in Thurles.

I believe myself that Davy needs to go. There's savage talent there going to waste for want of a bit of freedom. You might as well fire your "system" out the window when you're 10 points down starting the 2nd half.

aidan24326

Noveight wrote: »

That's all the punditry you'd need to summarize our day in Thurles.

I believe myself that Davy needs to go. There's savage talent there going to waste for want of a bit of freedom. You might as well fire your "system" out the window when you're 10 points down starting the 2nd half.

That's very true I think Davy and to an even greater extent Derek McGrath have bought into this idea of the 'system' being king and you stick to it no matter what. It's taken straight from the worst excesses of overly defensive football tactics and Waterford have zero chance of winning an All-Ireland playing like that. (and god forbid they do, they're awful to watch)

Clare have the hurlers to beat Galway but they're stifled by this fabled system. I honestly think if Clare played a more old fashioned orthodox style against Galway today we'd have had a close game and it might have gone either way. Playing the way they did was playing into Galway's hands and they stuck slavishly to the bullsh1t system all the way to the bitter end. Waterford do it at a more extreme level and I honestly hope Kilkenny wallop them. Horrible team to watch.

Noveight

aidan24326 wrote: »

Clare have the hurlers to beat Galway but they're stifled by this fabled system. I honestly think if Clare played a more old fashioned orthodox style against Galway today we'd have had a close game and it might have gone either way.

Absolutely. It's a fact that the likes of Dillon, Kelly, Collins and Galvin have enough talent to go man-to-man with anyone in the country.

This systematic style of play might help to bolster a team of average players, but restricts the potential of great players. Dark days ahead for hurling if it continues, for sure.

BannerBarry

Totally agree Aidan on your comments.
It wasn't the skill level in thr Clare team that left them down on the day.
The tactics were the issue. With Davy and his health scare and the gameplan for the day caused the game to be lost.

patsy_mccabe

I think Davy biggest problem is he played under a manager that convinced not only his players, but most of the hurling world that managerial tactics are what win matches. Even when Davy speaks, he talks about 'my lads', everything is about him. Too much of an ego at play here.
I've followed hurling for years and I don't understand this sweeper system. How are experienced players, used to hurling on instinct, expected to then go out and play in a 'system' that treats them like robots.
How many all Irelands have Kilkenny won by keeping things simple. If forwards can't catch a high ball in the air, then they shouldn't be there in the first place.
Yesterday was the first championship match I missed in years. Just didn't feel like watching all this crap again.:mad:

Davys Fits

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I think Davy biggest problem is he played under a manager that convinced not only his players, but most of the hurling world that managerial tactics are what win matches. Even when Davy speaks, he talks about 'my lads', everything is about him. Too much of an ego at play here.
I've followed hurling for years and I don't understand this sweeper system. How are experienced players, used to hurling on instinct, expected to then go out and play in a 'system' that treats them like robots.
How many all Irelands have Kilkenny won by keeping things simple. If forwards can't catch a high ball in the air, then they shouldn't be there in the first place.
Yesterday was the first championship match I missed in years. Just didn't feel like watching all this crap again.:mad:

Well said. The tactics are Davys ego at work. If they win then Davys wonder tactics get the credit. Its all about himself. The hurling is done on the field.. so let them hurl for gods sake.

Claw09

I hear that Davy is gone, said goodbye to his players in dressing room yesterday

John1010

Who would be the likely successor to Davy when he does go ?

bannerman2005

Was so disappointed yesterday with the amount of silly mistakes. After halftime the half back line didn't know who they were meant to be picking up and were pointing and shouting until Jack Browne eventually went over to his man. It just showed a systemic break down. Not having a reliable free taker starting is very risky. I thought when David Fitzgerald came on that the half backline looked a bit more solid. If Davy does leave it will mean maybe a chance for players that have not got a chance to come back into the fold. Morey would be someone I felt could have had a big impact yesterday. Maybe look at Stephen O'Halloran. I think some new blood is needed to freshen things up (management and players)

Clareman

I'm still sickened by the performance yesterday, we were completely dominated in the air, we weren't able to win our own puck out and I don't think we had a clear goal chance at any stage, when you're 10 points down you need goals not a 2 man full forward line. Twice this year we have conceded a goal straight from the throw in, that's a team that's not clued in, ffs did we not learn anything from the Waterford game? 7 points in a half of hurling just isn't good enough.

Tony Kelly is a great hurler but he isn't an intercountry free taker I'm afraid, we were completely dominated in the half forward line and we have our best half forward and freetaker on the bench. Speaking of the bench, 4 subs used when we were clearly second best in a lot of positions. Shane O'Donnell has been abysmal all year, I can't understand how he stayed on for the whole game.

It's time for Davy to go now, it's not that he's not getting enough out of hte players, he's actually stopping them from playing, ffs it's an easy game, hit the ball long, beat your man and get a score.

buck65

Clareman wrote: »

I'm still sickened by the performance yesterday, we were completely dominated in the air, we weren't able to win our own puck out and I don't think we had a clear goal chance at any stage, when you're 10 points down you need goals not a 2 man full forward line. Twice this year we have conceded a goal straight from the throw in, that's a team that's not clued in, ffs did we not learn anything from the Waterford game? 7 points in a half of hurling just isn't good enough.

Tony Kelly is a great hurler but he isn't an intercountry free taker I'm afraid, we were completely dominated in the half forward line and we have our best half forward and freetaker on the bench. Speaking of the bench, 4 subs used when we were clearly second best in a lot of positions. Shane O'Donnell has been abysmal all year, I can't understand how he stayed on for the whole game.

It's time for Davy to go now, it's not that he's not getting enough out of hte players, he's actually stopping them from playing, ffs it's an easy game, hit the ball long, beat your man and get a score.

That comment is way off , he tries his heart out. Was on his own for long spells again yesterday and won ball and frees he shouldn't have. He played well against Limerick and scored 0-3. Of all our players yesterday O Donnell was the one in the forward line who looked like beating his man every time.

buck65

Claw09 wrote: »

I hear that Davy is gone, said goodbye to his players in dressing room yesterday

Even if he did it is unlikely he will go without a push. Remember this is his job!
The players may decide to revolt if he comes back, I reckon alot of his "boys" are well sick of his ****e at this stage. Let himself down again yesterday on the sideline.

Clareman

buck65 wrote: »

That comment is way off , he tries his heart out. Was on his own for long spells again yesterday and won ball and frees he shouldn't have. He played well against Limerick and scored 0-3. Of all our players yesterday O Donnell was the one in the forward line who looked like beating his man every time.

I'm not saying he's not trying but everytime he gets the ball he either falls over or goes into contact with his opponent.

buck65

Because he is usually being dragged or impeded, he is playing too deep at times alright. O Donnell should be nearer the goals, also what the hell about Conor McGrath? does anyone believe he was ever injured - all sources say he fell out with Davy and got benched - our best hurler! and where on earth is Conor Ryan gone ?

deaddonkey15

buck65 wrote: »

That comment is way off , he tries his heart out. Was on his own for long spells again yesterday and won ball and frees he shouldn't have. He played well against Limerick and scored 0-3. Of all our players yesterday O Donnell was the one in the forward line who looked like beating his man every time.

Yet didn't do it once.