Wedding Issues - Priest refuses to perform a wedding!!

smanning

I am hoping to get married at the end of this year in a church in the south east. The priest is being very unreasonable stating that while the church will be open on the day it would be unfair to ask people to do a mass given the time of year? I have offered to make a charitable donation or compensate anyone who might feel "put out" by having to do whatever it is that has to be done in order to ready the church for the wedding.

Does anyone know what I can do to resolve this. Where can I take this issue as the priest is being very unhelpful for whatever reason?

Any help would really be very much appreciated. Thanks

Karoma

Eh, what date? and what makes you think your desire to be wed and willingness to bribe a priest outweighs the lives of others?
Write to the Bishop, etc.

PDN

Are you a regular worshipper in the church there?

smanning

not a regular worshipper there. Shouldn't matter though - given the very ideals of the religion. December 28th is the date we have in mind. Church is open so can't see the issue. Can ye?

PDN

smanning wrote: »

not a regular worshipper there. Shouldn't matter though - given the very ideals of the religion. December 28th is the date we have in mind. Church is open so can't see the issue. Can ye?

The ideals of the religion is to preach the Gospel, and to care for the needs of those in the Church. I don't think providing others with a venue for weddings etc is part of those ideals at all tbh.

However, what about the priest or minister at the church where you do worship regularly? If you ask him he'll probably have a word with the guy in the south east to help you out.

mikemac

You can see the priest's issue.
People who show up for mass once or twice or even never a year.
And then set a date and if the priest doesn't immediately agree the couple call him difficult. He probably doesn't even know you

Are you from another parish? Is their another local priest you ask? Who knows you and your family

Mediocrity

December 28th? You must be taking the pi$$? You obviously have no appreciation for how the Church operates.

PCPhoto

sure while yer at it why not go for the 25th .... dont know of anything happening on that date.

OP... why not choose another location - a marriage ceremony does not have to be in a church... so you can pick another place, another priest ....another fiance/fiancee...another date.

jhegarty

smanning wrote: »

December 28th is the date we have in mind.

lol , can't think of a worst day.

Mediocrity

Some people will always see churches as public entertainment spaces to be hired for the purpose of their choosing. The consumerist mentality is embedded deep into modern society.

smanning

It is from listening to some of the responses here that confirms for me why so many hav turned their back on the church. Honestly, some of ye are so far removed from the real world its like ye are part of a cult. Thanks to those whose heads are screwed on enough to suggest some practical approaches to dealing with this. For the moron who suggested the 25th sarcastically, it doesn't say a whole lot for your beliefs when you seem to hold the two dates in similar regard.

liamw

Mediocrity wrote: »

Some people will always see churches as public entertainment spaces to be hired for the purpose of their choosing. The consumerist mentality is embedded deep into modern society.

Some people? More like the 99% of the so-called Christians a.k.a cafeteria Christians. Get real dude, the majority of those people in your Church having weddings couldn't quote you one verse from the Bible. So I don't see why you're all so pissed off at SManning.

If you feel so strongly about it, I suggest you start taking roll-call at each Mass and only allow people who meet the attendence rate to have weddings or funerals hosted in your Church. Goodbye Wedding days.

PDN

smanning wrote: »

It is from listening to some of the responses here that confirms for me why so many hav turned their back on the church. Honestly, some of ye are so far removed from the real world its like ye are part of a cult. Thanks to those whose heads are screwed on enough to suggest some practical approaches to dealing with this. For the moron who suggested the 25th sarcastically, it doesn't say a whole lot for your beliefs when you seem to hold the two dates in similar regard.

So what is cultic about the Church pursuing its mission to preach the Gospel rather than rushing to meet your every whim about your wedding day?

Btw, the Church doesn't believe that Jesus was born on the 25th of December.

Also, please refrain from calling other posters morons.

jhegarty

smanning wrote: »

Honestly, some of ye are so far removed from the real world its like ye are part of a cult.

I think people here are very connected to the real world.

The op was the Church to preform a wedding at the end of the busies period of the year. All the people involved in getting the Church ready , the priest , the alter servers ..etc.. will have been working long hours for the 2/3 weeks that before this date.

Is it not unreasonable for them to not want to put on a wedding that day for someone who isn't a regular user of that Church ?

Tim Robbins

smanning wrote: »

I am hoping to get married at the end of this year in a church in the south east. The priest is being very unreasonable stating that while the church will be open on the day it would be unfair to ask people to do a mass given the time of year? I have offered to make a charitable donation or compensate anyone who might feel "put out" by having to do whatever it is that has to be done in order to ready the church for the wedding.

Does anyone know what I can do to resolve this. Where can I take this issue as the priest is being very unhelpful for whatever reason?

Any help would really be very much appreciated. Thanks

I say this as an atheist - what makes you think you're being reasonable?

Sounds like you are turning up at someone elses house and telling them how to run it.

whiteboard

When I got married, my now wife wanted to get married in the parish where she had grown up but now had no family. We were firstly charged for the use of the church as we were not members of the parish and were told we had to get our own priest. We were able to get the parish priest to perform the ceremony when some of the local parishoners put some pressure on him. This was in Dublin BTW.

I can understand when a parish tries to avoid levels of 'wedding chruch tourism' because of nice churches in this parish or that and in fairness I can see why they would charge a fee to non locals. I heard of ocassional attendees referred to as the 4 wheeled catholics - 4 buggy wheels for christining, 4 car wheels for the wedding and 4 hearse wheels for the funeral.

I can defo see why there could be an issue with a wedding on 28th Dec too but in general cannot see why the church would turn people away; especially of they are prepared to pay their way as we did.

homer911

OP, in fairness to the Priest, based on your post he is not saying he won't marry you, just that based on the time of year, his apparent lack of previous knowledge of you, and your general lack of church commitment that he doesnt see why he should put himself (and others) out for you at a time when he'd rather have a few days off after the hectic buildup to Christmas.

Perhaps if you had attended mass for a number of weeks in advance, and made a point of introducing yourself and your fiance to the priest (and saying "hello" on subsequent visits), he would have been more willing.

If a stranger turned up at our church and asked for wedding on Dec 28th, I'm sure the response would have been just the same

prinz

OP, the priest has every right to want to negotiate a date. It's not a pick and choose matter. It's rarely as simple as you choosing and the priest accepting.

smanning

Tim Robbins and others,

points taken but these are none of the points raised by the priest. he will be saying mass that day but not willing to have my wedding there. i am dealing with a real set of circumstances and nothing hypothetical. he could put it to the people involved (over and above what is required to say a normal mass) and see if they would agree or if a charitable donation (not a bribe as suggested by some) would sway them.

and i struggle to understand this argument that it is not my church. when did that ever matter. is it not one religion. i mean seriously lads, stop for a second and listen to yourselves. i should be able to have this wedding in any church. the whole church is so pretectionist and this, along with your comments only proves the point. a religious debate was not something i expected to get from this, simply a little help for a difficult set of circumsrtances where i don't want to let my fiancee down. your comments are deluded and out of order at best.

prinz

smanning wrote: »

and i struggle to understand this argument that it is not my church. when did that ever matter. is it not one religion. i mean seriously lads, stop for a second and listen to yourselves. i should be able to have this wedding in any church. the whole church is so pretectionist and this, along with your comments only proves the point. a religious debate was not something i expected to get from this, simply a little help for a difficult set of circumsrtances where i don't want to let my fiancee down. your comments are deluded and out of order at best.

Have you contacted your own local parish priest about this? You should not be able to have this wedding in any church as that is simply not how it works. There are procedures, regulations, paperwork etc. Seriously take a step back and think about how the world doesn't revolve around you, the one thing you keep repeating is how everyone and everything should accomodate your wishes.... I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you've already told you fiancée that the wedding will be on the 28th? There is no help we can give... it's between you and the priest, and there's nothing you can do to force the date you want.

munchkin_utd

"wedding church tourism"

That has to be my phrase of the week!!

To be fair, its no different in football. You have your home ground where you play your regular games.
For a big game you might like a different venue, for size/ amenities/ location.

If you want to play away from your regular haunt (where everyone knows your name and you have sway with matters) then you cant presume the away venue will bend over backwards for you, having to get the place prepped before hand and cleaned up afterwards.
Their own players and supporters are more important than someone who shows up with a bunch of strangers for the 90 minutes.

Bogger77

smanning wrote: »

Tim Robbins and others,

points taken but these are none of the points raised by the priest. he will be saying mass that day but not willing to have my wedding there. i am dealing with a real set of circumstances and nothing hypothetical. he could put it to the people involved (over and above what is required to say a normal mass) and see if they would agree or if a charitable donation (not a bribe as suggested by some) would sway them.

and i struggle to understand this argument that it is not my church. when did that ever matter. is it not one religion. i mean seriously lads, stop for a second and listen to yourselves. i should be able to have this wedding in any church. the whole church is so pretectionist and this, along with your comments only proves the point. a religious debate was not something i expected to get from this, simply a little help for a difficult set of circumsrtances where i don't want to let my fiancee down. your comments are deluded and out of order at best.

A church is a building maintained by volunteers from the local area. They clean and dust the church. They oil hinges, they wash the glass windows, they weed the grounds, they pick up litter from the car park. They help at the various religious ceremonies during the year. They're also people with families, friends relations whom they'd like spend some quality time over the Christmas break with.
You're basically, and it seems very clear from you posts, expecting that the parish in an area where you are not from, that your other half is not from, nor have links too, to break their holiday period, to ready the church for you, and your friends to enjoy a ceremony that you do seem to think is a religious event.

I applaud the Parish Priest for his stand on this, he would be very simple for him to say, yes you can have use of the church for that date, but he hasn't, as he knows that the people who normally do the readying of of the church for weddings will have plans, and there's a lot more than just getting "Flowers R us" to pop in and put some flowers up, and tie a ribbon or two, to the readying of the church. This people normally have such a sense of duty to the building and what it stands for, that they will cancel plans, refuse invitations, just to make sure that the church is ready. Frankly, your suggestion that a few bob thrown to a charity, would make up for the loss of personal and family time for those volunteers would be funny, if it wasn't so misguided.

You seem to think that the Church building is merely a venue for your wedding, if that is your idea, why not book a hotel, and I'm sure the paid staff there will take care of your requirements.

It is all one religion, and yes, it is down to you nothing being a local. Locals, esp in rural areas, will always help each other out, go the extra mile, and as your not a local, you or your family will never repay that "debt".

neuro-praxis

smanning wrote: »

and i struggle to understand this argument that it is not my church. when did that ever matter. is it not one religion. i mean seriously lads, stop for a second and listen to yourselves. i should be able to have this wedding in any church. the whole church is so pretectionist and this, along with your comments only proves the point. a religious debate was not something i expected to get from this, simply a little help for a difficult set of circumsrtances where i don't want to let my fiancee down. your comments are deluded and out of order at best.

Your selfishness is really quite staggering. That priest is not your servant. That community who voluntarily perform the upkeep of the building are not your servants. I don't know how to say this any more clearly: The church is not a service provider. You would know this yourself if you were a member of a community.

By the way, the 28th is a very inconvenient date for most people (and here I even mean your guests). You are interrupting their precious time off with their families.

Bogger77

smanning wrote: »

where i don't want to let my fiancee down.

Hmm, call me deluded, but the wedding must be on 28th of December 2010, in a particular Church building, or your fiancée will be let down?

I think you've more trouble than the priest saying no, to content with.

smanning

Again,

if any of you're reasons were reasons given by the priest I would not have posted, so hold tough on repeating this constant dribble about dusting and what not.

if they are not a service provider then why the charge?

its not so much that we have our heart set on that church, and while I would like it to be there it is not an absolute necessity.

the time of year is not inconveniencing anyone as the vast majority of atendess will be flying home for our wedding no matter what the date and we considered it best to hold it close to chritsmas so that the lengthy and expensive flights could result in them spending quality time with family also.

the church location is close to the place where we will hold the reception and given the dangerous driving conditions we thought it best to change from our own local church and have it close to the reception as this will mean people do not have to travel during the wedding day itself but would have the opoportunity to drive down that morning or the day before.

to be honest, i think it is a complete joke. i don't expect to get my way all the time as suggested by some of you. any sort of rationale and reasonable argument from the priest and I would have accepted this. The fact is that if you are looking for rationale and sound reasoning you shouldn't look to the church. But that argument is for another day.

glad to see so much blind and ignorant faith about the place though. keep up the good work.

doctoremma

I can't recall EVER defending a priest or a church before but...*gulp

The priest is being very unreasonable stating that while the church will be open on the day it would be unfair to ask people to do a mass given the time of year?

He's told you why he doesn't want to do it and to be honest, the explanations given by other posters seem fairly acceptable. However, it obviously doesn't meet your criteria for "reasonable" excuses. That's kind of tough, honey. Honestly, what are you going to do? Force him to do it?

Zombrex

smanning wrote: »

. i don't expect to get my way all the time as suggested by some of you. any sort of rationale and reasonable argument from the priest and I would have accepted this.

It is not really your place to decide what is a rational and reasonable argument from the priest. He has been running that church a lot longer than you have wanted to get married there.

I don't know much about the comings and goings of Catholics but a lot of people here seem to agree with reasonings given by the priest, so perhaps it might be no harm to stop asserting that you know better how to run his church than the priest does and actually listen properly to what the priest is saying and take that on board.

You aren't going to get very far expecting to be married in the priest's church when you are asserting that he doesn't know how to do his job properly

Morlar

This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or christianity as far as I can make out & may be more suited for the weddings forum alongside threads on booking dj's and photographers etc.

prinz

Morlar wrote: »

This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or christianity as far as I can make out ...

Agreed. The same principle would apply if you wanted to make an appointment with a doctor, dentist, solicitor, accountant etc on a thursday at 2. Yes the office might be open, yes they might be working, but they are under no obligation whatsoever to take you at that time, on that day for whatever reason.

f3qh5g0z6vc7ob

Note - I am Wiccan but have to reply to this OP.

(sorry guys if i shouldn't be posting in here)

OP - If the hotel you wanted said no I'm sorry but as its the xmas period we will have skeleton staff in (which most places do for this date) and we cant allow you to have this date, or lets say the photographer, florist, band, etc all say they are off as its xmas would you be on here giving out fits about it.

Forget that this is a big time in the church and just for a minute remember it is xmas. If every year you had xmas period off and your boss says to you I want you to come in on the 27th (which your asking these people to do as they will have to prep the church) would you not be seriously be pissed off with your boss!!!

I know your wedding day is a big day and I am not suggesting you shouldn't have it on the day of your choice as I understand maybe this is an anniversary of the day you met or another romantic date but I think your very wrong to give out because the church said no to marrying you in it.

I know you said they are doing mass that day anyway but your then asking them to do overtime!!! Would you work an extra few hours overtime when you could be at home with family!

Fanny Cradock

smanning, while I understand that this is an issue of great personal importance, I suggest that you take a few moments to consider the weight of opinion from atheist and theist alike. Also it really helps the discussion if you don't get pissy at people simply because they aren't supporting you.

Coriolanus

if they are not a service provider then why the charge?

If they are a service provider (a term I'd have issue with anyway) then it's perfectly within their rights to decide on what days they wish to provide that service. If the priest doesn't want to do a wedding on the day, he doesn't have to. Whether it's for a "valid" reason, or just because he wants to watch the sound of music that morning, is none of your concern. His time, his decision how he wants to spend it.

If your attitude with the priest is anything like it has been here, ie: exhibiting an overweening sense of entitlement and dismissiveness of other peoples times during the holiday season, then I can see why the priest didn't bother to give you any "legitimate" reasons.

Oh, and I'm an atheist, and your attitude even grates on me, someone who give two !"£$s about the church.

Stephentlig

smanning wrote: »

I am hoping to get married at the end of this year in a church in the south east. The priest is being very unreasonable stating that while the church will be open on the day it would be unfair to ask people to do a mass given the time of year? I have offered to make a charitable donation or compensate anyone who might feel "put out" by having to do whatever it is that has to be done in order to ready the church for the wedding.

Does anyone know what I can do to resolve this. Where can I take this issue as the priest is being very unhelpful for whatever reason?

Any help would really be very much appreciated. Thanks

This is a sad reality. Me and my wife had problems when getting married, the priest was being a pain in the backside, you dont even wanna know how many months it took us to get it sorted. I dont think he realised I was quite the student of theology and I brought him to the code of canon, to which he babbled some response, but the thing is I'm still Catholic and dont judge my church by the sinfulness of its members.

anyway after my confrontation it was sorted, you should be allowed a mass its part of the canon. I'll look it up for you when I can and research the best possible answer I can get for you, that is if you have not already resloved the issue at hand and that you permit me to do so and give me a few days to respond?

God bless
Stephen.

Ghost Buster

Stephentlig wrote: »

This is a sad reality. Me and my wife had problems when getting married, the priest was being a pain in the backside, you dont even wanna know how many months it took us to get it sorted. I dont think he realised I was quite the student of theology and I brought him to the code of canon, to which he babbled some response, but the thing is I'm still Catholic and dont judge my church by the sinfulness of its members.

anyway after my confrontation it was sorted, you should be allowed a mass its part of the canon. I'll look it up for you when I can and research the best possible answer I can get for you, that is if you have not already resloved the issue at hand and that you permit me to do so and give me a few days to respond?

God bless
Stephen.

:eek:Hey. Did ye all see that. Christians, Atheists and Wiccans all agreeing on something!!!
But isnt this attitude so very typical of the avearge Irish a la carte catholic?:rolleyes:

Fanny Cradock

Ghost Buster wrote: »

:eek:Hey. Did ye all see that. Christians, Atheists and Wiccans all agreeing on something!!!
But isnt this attitude so very typical of the avearge Irish a la carte catholic?:rolleyes:

I would say, no, it isn't typical. This thread is about what constitutes a reasonable request. It just so happens that nobody else on this thread happens to agree with the OP that the request is reasonable. As for accusations about à la carte Catholicism, perhaps you should read the final post from the OP. To me it reads as sufficiently scathing to suggest that the OP doesn't give a fiddlers about Catholicism.

Antbert

Maybe Ghostbuster is onto something. People of different and no religions unite to be irritated by unreasonable requests.

Could this be applied on a bigger scale?

Ghost Buster

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I would say, no, it isn't typical. This thread is about what constitutes a reasonable request. It just so happens that nobody else on this thread happens to agree with the OP that the request is reasonable. As for accusations about à la carte Catholicism, perhaps you should read the final post from the OP. To me it reads as sufficiently scathing to suggest that the OP doesn't give a fiddlers about Catholicism.

Hi. Sorry about that. Yeah I suppose I was using a wide brush alright but this issue always bemuses me. It comes up time and time again and regulary appears in the "Letters to the editor" section of the papers. Folk who dont attend their local church for years on end who then become indignant when they are not pandered to by the self same church. Its at times like this when I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with the clergy.
I still wouldnt be at all surprised if the OP still ticks the "Catholic" box on a census form despite the final post from the OP.

smanning

I think people are getting a bit distracted from the original facts and circumstances.

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas. i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely. if I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church. i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church. i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married. i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt. if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

i am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in.

and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off. every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools. ye are on the decline lads!

Ghost Buster

smanning wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit distracted from the original facts and circumstances.

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas. i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely. if I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church. i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church. i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married. i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt. if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

i am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in.

and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off. every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools. ye are on the decline lads!

Ah but there is little or no need to "play the game" as you put it.
I got married in a registry office and as my wife is a pagan we had a hand fasting in a friends gorgeous garden the next day. The registry office part is all that is needed legally. And since the law change the registrar will attend a place of your choosing (with some exceptions)so it doesnt have to take place in a grotty registry office.
If you feel so strongly about Catholicism then just follow the steps on www.countmeout.ie and you can formally defect from the Catholic Church. Its really simple
As you said "Ye are on the decline " so why not help this decline by formally defecting and not "playing the game" as there really is no need. (Im not one of the YE by the way!:D)

Now I cant speak for your local schools but I know lots of folk of non Catholic folk or of no faith who have sent their kids to Catholic schools with no difficulty. MY own child is not being brought up in any faith and is unbaptised and is attending the local Catholic school despite it being known that Daddy is an atheist and Mammy is a Protestant by heritage and Pagan by choosing! Im not presuming to know the ins and out of the schools you are discussing but if they are prepared to turn the "faith " card then are they really the best choice? Kick up a fuss with your local TD's. It is whats needed to get this country to become the democratic republic it claims to be.
Or consider an Educate Together school if there is one near you.

Hope this helps

Ghost Buster

smanning wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit distracted from the original facts and circumstances.

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas. i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely. if I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church. i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church. i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married. i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt. if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

i am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in.

and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off. every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools. ye are on the decline lads!

Me again. I have a bit more time to look at your post properly. I reallythink you are jumping to conclusions or receiving misinformation from somewhere.
"it needs to be a catholic church.".. No. A registry office is all you need.

"i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church". If you are not a practicing Catholic, have issues with the Catholic Church then why are you doing this??? Use a registrar!

" i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married. i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt."
No you dont (see above") If you feel this strongly about the Church and yet go along with it then you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.


"i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues."
NO you dont. Im not doing it and I live in a rural community and there is no issue. This may have been the case a while back but it is slowly changing. Help the change rather than just going with the flow!

prinz

smanning wrote: »

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas.

If you're old and mature enough to get married, how about you act like it and make your own decisions? Not interested, then don't go.

smanning wrote: »

...i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown,....

Mind my asking, which responses have shown that the religion itself is flawed?

smanning wrote: »

....and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely....

You wouldn't be the first, you wouldn't even be the 1001st. Didn't you mean to say 'if my relatives did not have such a strong hold over me...'?

smanning wrote: »

....
if I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church.

Just confused over this one. If I want to get married in a Catholic Church then it needs to be a Catholic Church... yes well, I thought that was self evident. If you want to get married in any other denomination's church then switch to those denominations...or a registry office. Except you're playing the Mrs Bucket card on that one :rolleyes:

smanning wrote: »

....
...i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church.

If you have been with accountant y for a few years and for some reason you want to switch to accountant x.... then you will need to present x, with a letter from y confirming that y knows of no reason why x should not be able to act as accountant for you. The same thing applies in many walks of life.

smanning wrote: »

....
i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married.

Chances are they know a lot, lot more than you do about dedicating their life to a cause greater than themselves. No offence but it seems an area that you could pick up some pointers in.

smanning wrote: »

....
...i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt.

"Colleagues" who didn't actually act in their faith, or live their religion. People who took refuge in the Church to keep up appearances, and use it when it suited them... reminds me more of yourself than it does of the genuine Catholic clergy.

smanning wrote: »

....
if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

Not likely. I went to a school associated with a Catholic order of monks.. in the school at the time were people of various Protestant faiths, a few Muslims, etc. If you don't like the school's policy then go somewhere else.

smanning wrote: »

....i am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in..

A hypocritical game?

smanning wrote: »

.......and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off. every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Then surely the obvious solution is to go to another church?

smanning wrote: »

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

..and yet you've only managed to do just that, repeatedly. Hmm, once again just what help do you think anyone here can give you?

smanning wrote: »

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools. ye are on the decline lads!

I am a practising Catholic and I want the Church to hand over control of schools. What's your point?

Why not move the reception?

Dades

smanning wrote: »

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas. i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely.

etc.

I can understand why you'll pretend to be catholic for a day to appease your wife/family (I did it myself) - but why are you pretending to be in here?

You're clearly not a catholic.

Will the church not entertain you even if you bring your own priest? If they will you have nearly a year to find yourself a priest to bring with you. You might have to dust off your Sunday best more often, though.

Ghost Buster

smanning wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit distracted from the original facts and circumstances.

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas. i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely. if I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church. i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church. i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married. i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt. if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

i am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in.

and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off. every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools. ye are on the decline lads!

I dont get it when you say "Ye are in decline lads".
Many of the responses here are from atheists and at least one from a Wiccan. Which group are you refering to when you say ye? Is it Christians, catholics, atheists or Wiccans?
You have pulled off a master stroke in uniteing us all! This has nothing to do with religion but with you being unreasonable and down right unimaginative regarding your options. If you are a catholic get married in the church you should be attending if you are a catholic. If you are not (youre not) have a civil union and a dam good party afterwards

witchgirl26

smanning wrote: »

i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church.

Just in regards this as I know a small bit about it from my brother's wedding. He got married in a Protestant Church in England (his wife's Protestant & English so it made sense) and he had to get this letter from our parish priest. He asked them why and the response he got is that the main reason is to show that he hadn't gotten married in his local church and he could, in the eyes of God not only the law, get married in the other church. It wasn't that much of a fuss to get it sorted - he rang the parish priest (who didn't even know him properly), told him who he was & what he was doing & all the priest wanted to know was the name of the vicar & the address to send the letter to.

I read a suggestion earlier in the thread about getting your own parish priest to have a word with this priest on your behalf & do think it's the best idea. However if you only go to your own church once a year then he may not be willing to. I know my brother had to attend service as often as possible in a 6 month period before the wedding (and be seen by the vicar) to show that he and his (now) wife were willing to be part of the community - your parish priest & this priest may feel the same.

As for the other points you raise, if you do dislike the church & "the game" as you put it then you do not have to go along with it. There are a number of non-faith schools around & most schools are willing to take students who are not the religion of the school. I was in 2 very Catholic schools - primary & secondary both run by nuns but we had atheists, Muslims & Protestants. Didn't make a difference to the level of education & I don't think they were in any way discriminated against for their faith (or non-faith as was the case).

I know a number of churches who don't do weddings in the lead up to and the period after Christmas so I think your comment is wrong about every other church offering 3 weddings a day on these dates. In fact I know 2 churches that only did funerals on these dates last year.

itac

smanning wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit distracted from the original facts and circumstances.

i am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas. i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely. if I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church. i need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church. i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married. i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt. if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

i am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in.

and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off. every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools. ye are on the decline lads!

I've no idea how to work the mutli quote, so I'm replying to the bits in bold...

-If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to tell your relatives that you are a lapsed/non-practising Catholic, and find it hypocritical to go through the motions. This is your life, not theirs. If it were for anniversaries/funerals etc, then fine, that is something that *needs* to be done to keep *some* relatives happy. I've not attended anything other than the big four (christening/wedding/funeral/anniversaries) for that reason. I'm 26, and have been doing that since the age of 16/17.

-Many people agree that the Church is severely flawed. Many people who replied here are of different religions (I'd be describing myself as lapsed Catholic here) You can walk away from the church. If it's a case that your fiancee is a believer/practiser, and you have to go along with that for them, well that's your choice. You can get married in a non-religious ceremony anywhere nowadays, (as far as I can remember) as long as the venue is non-religious. If you want the full church wedding, then (imo) you should be a practising member of that church wedding. You might find that if you were heavily, or even just regularly involved in a parish, there would be no problem with your chosen date. You mentioned that several other churches are offering three weddings a day on the 27/28/29th, why not go to one of those?

-The counsellors who run those course must be married for a minimum amount of years (can't remember if it's 5 or 15). This I know as my mother works in this area.

-If you don't want to be a hypocrite, then don't play the game! Say to your fiancee that you don't want a church/Catholic wedding.

-I have major doubts that you're speaking about the same religion that everyone else is, seeing as there appears to be peoples from several different religions here...:D

I'm not trying to rile you, but if you (objectively) read your own posts, you might see that you're coming across as stubborn, and unwilling to take other's advice/opinions on board in this situation. If you take your situation, and apply it to a different walk of life, ie

You go to the same branch of a coffe chain for 10+ years. The employees know you, and will rush you ahead in the queue sometimes. They top up your coffee for free, they let you off money now and again, or keep you a table, even though it's not the kinda place where you can book ahead.

Then you go to another branch, and get stuck in a queue for 20 mins, even though all you want is just a regular coffee. They charge you for the top-up you look for & refuse to hold you a table for 11am, even though you've arranged to meet people there at that time.

Who's in the right there...?
Just something to think about. I do hope it works out for you OP, I know how special a wedding day is for the couple & family involved, but sometimes, it does mean compromising on the things you really wanted. The main thing is that you two get married because you love each other-the rest of the day, ie location/guests/reception, should be there as added extras to make the day even more special.

Antbert

I imagine your problem with the Registary Office is that your family will be displeased, and sometimes it's just easier to appease them.

I offer you solutions.

1. **** it. Do whatever you want, and stop trying to people-please.

2. Get them to sort out the church if it matters so much.

Tim Robbins

smanning wrote: »

i should be able to have this wedding in any church.

It's comment like this that make me cringe when non religious people call religious people deluded.

Ghost Buster

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's comment like this that make me cringe when non religious people call religious people deluded.

I hear ya but its open to question as to how religious or not the OP is. Undecided would be the best estimate!
I dont think its fair to lump either the theists or athiests into this mix. Most folk on here have a fairly concrete basis to stand on. This just seems to be a sense of entitlement with no understanding of the bigger picture.

Mayoegian

smanning wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit distracted from the original facts and circumstances.

No, I think you were expecting sympathetic answers, and now that you've seen rational answers, you're getting frustrated.

smanning wrote: »

am happy to clear up a few issues. i am catholic, not practising, and attend church once a year to keep my relatives happy at christmas.

I'm sorry, but if this is the case, you are not a Catholic. I find it quite peculiar how people who no longer go to Mass, who no longer pray and who give out about the church, have the audacity and oblivion to suggest they are still a member of the church. Also, if you're an adult, act like one and stop appeasing your relatives.

smanning wrote: »

i believe it is a severly flawed religion, as many of your responses have shown, and if it did not have such a strong hold in Ireland I would be the first to walk away entriely.

If you believe it is a flawed religion, why are you so persistent to have your wedding in a Catholic Church? Also, our many responses have shown that you are in the minority, and there's a very good reason for that. You have not provided a rational, selfless argument for having your wedding in a Catholic Church, which you have no connection with, during what is one of the most busiest times for a church in the year. I think you'll find it is not ours, but your responses(which have contained some derogatory comments to posters here) that are flawed.

smanning wrote: »

I want to get married in a church, then it needs to be a catholic church.

Why do you want your wedding to be in a church that you have so little regard for? I find that hypocritical at best. Why must it be a Catholic church? Is it to please the relatives again?

smanning wrote: »

I need to get letters from my church (wherever that is) to say that i can get married in a different church.

This is all procedure. Every single couple who want to get married in a church in a place away from their own parish, must have the necessary documents.

smanning wrote: »

i need to go to pre marriage conselling to receive advice from someone who has never been married.

As somebody already pointed out, most of these counsellors have been married before. Regardless of whether they have or not, they have a lot more knowledge of marriage and it's various obstacles than you and many others. I would recommend you to go to a pre-marriage course, because I think you need a few tips judging from your posts.

smanning wrote: »

i need to have some priest bless our marriage while all around him the evil which his colleagues have created is still being felt.

The priests that abused children were not working in the spirit of God. They went into a profession that provided access to children in order to carry out their sick atrocities. However, they were not servants of God-they were simply impersonators. Most priests out there are good men, who work in the name of our Lord and who do good for the community-so why paint all priests with the same brush?

smanning wrote: »

if i want my kids to attend the same good schools i did then i need them to be baptised and get their communion and confirmation and so the viscuous cycle continues.

Again, you are not familiar with the way certain systems work. I'm 16, go to school, and there are kids in my class, and indeed in my classes when I was in primary school, who did not make their First Holy Communion, nor their Confirmation. Furthermore, who weren't even baptised. I am a Catholic, and I went to a Catholic school and am presently in a Catholic Secondary school. So your argument above is unfounded.

smanning wrote: »

I am not a hypocrit, just playing the game that i find myself in.

Well in this 'game' your in, you have to 'play' by the rules. You are asking a priest, whom you don't even know because you don't go to Mass in the church, to perform your wedding during one of the most busiest times in the church in the year? You proceed to post up your argument on a national forum behind the priest's back and say that he is not doing his job properly, and more or less, that you have the right to have a wedding in any church of your choosing. Well I'm sorry, but you don't. Now get over it.

smanning wrote: »

and for all the moaning about the dates and how reasoanble the priest is and how unreasonable i am to want his assistance, just leave those comments off.

So what you're saying here is that you want us to say, 'he's totally in the wrong, you, a non-practising 'Catholic,' should have the authority to have your wedding in a church where you don't go to Mass? I'm sorry, this is Ireland, not Dreamland. The fact of the matter is, it is YOU and YOU alone who are unreasonable and irrational and can't accept that you can't have everything your way.

smanning wrote: »

every other church is offering 3 weddings a day on the 27th, 28th, 29th and all over chrsitmas so these comments are more out of ignorance thn anything else.

Maybe some churches are offering to accommodate weddings on these dates, which I highly doubt as I think it is a misperceived opinion on your behalf, but this church isn't, so if you're so obsessed with having your wedding in a church, why don't you go to one of these churches, which apparently offer them for these 3 days?

smanning wrote: »

Im not here to bash your (and mine sadly) religion, just looking for a helping hand for a situaion that I am not familiar with.

What more help do you need? We have told you that the church does not have to open for you. If it was to open, the priest, caretakers, altar servers, cleaners, etc. would all have to sacrifice their precious family time, to cater for a person who doesn't even attend Mass in their church-how is that fair? Also, if you're so sad about being a 'Catholic,' as you so loosely put it, wake up and realise that if you don't attend Mass, don't agree with the way the church is run, criticise priests and seem to have a truly negative picture of Catholicism, you are not a Catholic.

smanning wrote: »

By the way, the Irish Times today said that well in excess of half the population want the church to hand over control of primary schools.

Interesting. I've another statistic for you:

Well in excess of half of these replies have said that you're in the wrong and are selfish for even suggesting that a church opens exclusively for you, a non-practising 'Catholic.'

smanning wrote: »

ye are on the decline lads!

For an adult, you're very immature, I must say. Just because you're not getting your own way, you resort to taunts. Now we all know what kind of attitude the priest has to deal with.

homer911

MaighEoGoDeo wrote: »

I'm 16,

Wow! What a post from a 16 year old!