Ireland's Begrudgery - Good Thing or a Bad Thing?

OutlawPete

It has always seemed to me that this country is full of begrudgers and if anything I think it is getting worse.

If you look at any other country they have a list of people that they are proud of.

On the other hand in Ireland we think every one that has made it in one way or another is a *****r who needs a slap.

Now I'm sure some of them do. I can understand people not liking Bono, Gerry Ryan, Ryan Tosspot etc.

However, it seems that there is nobody in this country that people are proud of.

It's NOT just fame either. It seems to creep into all avenues of Irish society.

Anyone with success comes in for it.

So what says you?

AnonoBoy

OutlawPete wrote: »

It has always seemed to me that this country is full of begrudgers and if anything I think it is getting worse.

If you look at any other country they have a list of people that they are proud of.

On the other hand in Ireland we think every one that has made it in one way or another is a *****r who needs a slap.

Now I'm sure some of them do. I can understand people not liking Bono, Gerry Ryan, Ryan Tosspot etc.

However, it seems that there is nobody in this country that people are proud of.

It's just fame either. It seems to creep into all avenues of Irish society.

Anyone with success comes in for it.

So what says you?

tl;dr version:

Don't be a hater.

admiralofthefleet

to quote my 77 year old aunt: 'fuck the begrudgers'

Fago!

OutlawPete wrote: »

It's NOT just fame either.

Stupid Pete!

bonerm

The begrudgery is a bad thing. I don't respect Boner or JabbatheHutt or RyanTwaterty as entertainers, but at the same time I don't begrudge them their success. At the very least one could say they were smart/ambitious enough to tailor their repective brands of shíte to the markets seeking such rubbish.

OutlawPete

AnonoBoy wrote: »

tl;dr version:

Eight sentences?

Daroxtar

OutlawPete wrote: »

It has always seemed to me that this country is full of begrudgers and if anything I think it is getting worse.

If you look at any other country they have a list of people that they are proud of.

On the other hand in Ireland we think every one that has made it in one way or another is a *****r who needs a slap.

Now I'm sure some of them do. I can understand people not liking Bono, Gerry Ryan, Ryan Tosspot etc.

However, it seems that there is nobody in this country that people are proud of.

It's just fame either. It seems to creep into all avenues of Irish society.

Anyone with success comes in for it.

So what says you?

Yeah, says you with your fukn New Thread

AnonoBoy

OutlawPete wrote: »

Eight sentences?

I'm a busy man. Stop begrudging me my busyness.

OutlawPete

Daroxtar wrote: »

Yeah, says you with your fukn New Thread

What?

EDIT: the penny finally dropped

bonerm

OutlawPete wrote: »

What?

woosh

Captain_Generic

OutlawPete wrote: »

However, it seems that there is nobody in this country that people are proud of.

How about Brian O'Driscoll? I don't think he has any haters, and we should all be proud of him

bonerm

Captain_Generic wrote: »

How about Brian O'Driscoll? I don't think he has any haters, and we should all be proud of him

Yeah, everyone loves that pug-faced twat.

partyatmygaff

I can't find one single successful person in Ireland today that isn't begrudged or hated for some reason.

stovelid

Sometimes I think that "begrudgery" seems to equate to nothing more than a label for people who don't cravenly doff their cap to people who make more money or who are more successful than them.

When in fact, it's often just that we think that said celeb/person is a cunt anyway and their status or wealth actually has nothing to do with it.

OutlawPete

bonerm wrote: »

woosh

Linky for ya.

AnonoBoy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I can't find one single successful person in Ireland today that isn't begrudged or hated for some reason.

David Norris. Everyone loves that cheeky gay.

Captain_Generic

Arthur Guinness

If you hate him, you're a dickhead

xoxyx

It's a bit petty, but it's definitely the Irish way. A friend of mine has quite the crush on Andie MacDowell and he saw her on Grafton Street a good few months back. I asked her did he go up to her and he said "naw, didn't want to give her a big head"! Now, he's a nice guy and all, but I don't think his opinion is enough to make or break Andie.
I don't like it, but we never seem to be happy unless we're putting somebody down. A nation of begrudgers and bitches!

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

When in fact, it's often just that we think that said celeb/person is a cunt anyway and their status or wealth actually has nothing to do with it.

I think that's true to a point.

But when you look at the fact that you could count on one hand the amount of Irish people who people do look up to.

As I said though, maybe it's a good thing when compared to somewhere like the states where you have ever person who has fame getting an ar*e licking everywhere they go.

OutlawPete

Captain_Generic wrote: »

Arthur Guinness

Well, dead people don't count.

It Ireland it goes without saying that we love people who are dead even if we hated them while living.

Hypocrites and begrudges we have no shortage of.

Captain_Generic

Colm Meaney? Gotta love him for DS9

COYW

Its nothing to do with fame at all. A large proportion of this nation are whinging, bitter begrudgers. They hate to see anyone else achieve anything and take every chance to put successful people down or even honest people who get a break. Also, everyone else is worse off than us. That bit of snow and cold weather we had the other week was treated like a catastrophe, fgs.

My ma always tells me that the irish dont need anyone else to put us down because we do it to ourselves and we are the worlds best at it.

mickoneill30

COYW wrote: »

Its nothing to do with fame at all. A large proportion of this nation are whinging, bitter begrudgers.

There was a joke that in the US when somebody succeeds everybody else looks at him and says "Someday......I'll be that guy".

In Ireland they say "Someday.....I'll get that guy" (or maybe worded a bit stronger).

It's true though. Easier to resent the "lucky" guys that make it rather than get off your ass and do it yourself.

OutlawPete

COYW wrote: »

My ma always tells me that the irish dont need anyone else to put us down because we do it to ourselves and we are the worlds best at it.

You're lucky to have a mother that seems to be very wise.

A lot of people would tell you that most of the criticism and begrudgery that they have received, that has affected them the deepest their lives, has come from within their own family.

BraziliaNZ

I hate this word, it's used far too much in Ireland. Anyway - give us an example of someone people hate due to their success? And I don't think this is a particularly Irish thing, same in Britain.

ScumLord

It's how we maintain equality and help those fortunate enough to have money or fame from turning into tosspots.

Takk

Bruce Springsteen.

Hey, if it's good enough for the Irish soccer team... :pac:

mike65

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I hate this word, it's used far too much in Ireland. Anyway - give us an example of someone people hate due to their success? And I don't think this is a particularly Irish thing, same in Britain.

Its subtly different across the water, the hope is that the sucessful fella will simply loose it all (and the girl). Rather than actively resenting the successful they merely wish to see it end.

BraziliaNZ

I don't buy this - look at our football team for example, very limited players like Zinedine Kilbane are national heroes ffs! We once had an open top bus for a snooker player. Where else would you get this? There might be a kind of hatred for the upper classes from lower classes, but i think this happens everywhere.

stovelid

It's often an aggressively patriotic thing.

Ah sure, *celeb* or *person* is doing Ireland proud. /end.

The expectation is that you must suspend critical faculty about fuckwits like Louis Walsh, Bono and Micheal O Leary because they've done alright for themselves and are famous. Failure to kowtow to this opinion is seen as being begrudging.

It's not. I think they are cunts.

On the other hand, I happen to have no problem with equally wealthy and famous Irish people like Robbie Keane and Phil Lynott so the begrudging argument is bogus.

IvySlayer

Captain_Generic wrote: »

Arthur Guinness

If you hate him, you're a dickhead

TO MARTHA!!

Anyway.

I don't know why there's a lot of hate towards Irish celebs. Bono, he's one of the most successful musicians of all time. He's good at it.

BraziliaNZ

IvySlayer wrote: »

TO MARTHA!!

Anyway.

I don't know why there's a lot of hate towards Irish celebs. Bono, he's one of the most successful musicians of all time. He's good at it.

because of his preachy bullsh*t and moon-sized ego, he's thought of as a knob all over the world, not just by Irish people

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

stovelid wrote: »

It's not. I think they are cunts.

Do you have any real reasons for hating bono or are you just following the sheep who hate him for no reason other than "everyone else hates him". What a crock of shít...

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

On the other hand, I happen to have no problem with equally wealthy and famous Irish people like Robbie Keane and Phil Lynott so the begrudging argument is bogus.

Phil Lynnott was not liked when he was alive.

He got nothing but crap from people.

If you ever see an interview with his mother she always says that Phil wanted to be respected by people and he never got it.

He only became idolized after he died.

If you don't think that there is some undeserved begrudgery in this country then you are living under a rock.

Of course some people deserve it - I said that in the OP, but there are lot of people who's only crime is that they are succesful.

BraziliaNZ

OutlawPete wrote: »

Phil Lynnott was not liked when he was alive.

He got nothing but crap from people.

If you ever see an interview with his mother she always says that Phil wanted to be respected by people and he never got it.

He only became idolized after he died.

If you don't think that there is some undeserved begrudgery in this country then you are living under a rock.

give us some examples of people who are disliked for the wrong reasons then?

OutlawPete

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

give us some examples of people who are disliked for the wrong reasons then?

If I do then you will just get posts saying:

"He's a wanker, always was .. I knew someone who knew him" blah blah.

What's the point?

You can't argue with people that just claim someone is a c*nt.

I don't mind someone like Degsy hating Gerry Ryan for instance as he can back it up.

He can tell you Gerry's a narcissistic bollox for A, B, C, D, E, F and f**king G and that's fine - I agree with him.

What I am saying is that there are people that if there name is brought up in public (or a public forum) you will a load of "He's a cnut" "He's just a scumbag" etc.

As I said, some people deserve the title others don't.

Diabhal Beag

Look at Bono. We don't begrudge enough

aDeener

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't buy this - look at our football team for example, very limited players like Zinedine Kilbane are national heroes ffs! We once had an open top bus for a snooker player. Where else would you get this? There might be a kind of hatred for the upper classes from lower classes, but i think this happens everywhere.

he most definitely is not

stovelid

OutlawPete wrote: »

Phil Lynnott was not liked when he was alive.

He got nothing but crap from people.
.

Pete - you're saying that people can't make unsubstantiated statements like he's a cunt and you're issuing blanket statement like the above?

So nobody liked him whatsoever in Ireland. Was it a census entry? :pac:

I like Kilbane btw. He's a tryer.

brummytom

Maison Glamorous Sewer wrote: »

Do you have any real reasons for hating bono or are you just following the sheep who hate him for no reason other than "everyone else hates him". What a crock of shít...

He's a muppet

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

So nobody liked him whatsoever in Ireland. Was it a census entry? :pac:

I didn't say "nobody liked him whatsoever" and to call me saying 'Phil wasn't liked' a "Blanket statement" is a joke - your smiley is apt so.

He wasn't liked anywhere near compared to how he is now.

If someone had told him that one day they'd put a statue of him outside his favourite boozer, he would have ahad some laugh i'd say.

He was looked down of being a junkie and mostly for being black.

He spoke in interviews of times when he was racial abused just walking the streets of Dublin.

stovelid

At the heart of these requests for scientific evidence of Bono's cuntishness lies the begrudge principle. Some people just can't accept that you don't like some stellar Irish public figures. I think twenty plus years of listening to Bono's lyrics, his public pronouncements; seeing him in pubs occasionally, and reading his interviews gives me the right to light-heartedly dislike him without having to provide footnotes after every heretical utterance.

Doesn't mean he's not talented, or that I don't like some of U2s music, but so what?

He's a short arse as well. And what's with those clothes and shades at this age?

mickoneill30

stovelid wrote: »

At the heart of these requests for scientific evidence of Bono's cuntishness

Who's asking for evidence of Bonos cuntishness?

One guy did ask another poster why he didn't like Bono. Is that unreasonable? It's hardly asking for scientific evidence.

Herb Powell

Well, it isn't great at all. On the other hand, if you really wanna do something, then you'll do it, and not be a weak-minded sheep;)
As stovelid said (I hope it was him, I'll look like an eejit ) F*ck the begrudgers

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

Some people just can't accept that you don't like some stellar Irish public figures. I think twenty plus years of listening to Bono's lyrics, his public pronouncements; seeing him in pubs occasionally, and reading his interviews gives me the right to light-heartedly dislike him without having to provide footnotes after every heretical utterance.

Stove, you don't like Bono and you have given perfectly good reasons why you don't.

I don't class that as begrudging and I don't think anyone else would.

I clearly said in the OP that when people have a reason for not not liking someone then that is not what I consider begrudgery.

You are making out that people have a problem with you not liking Bono and other peole not liking someone when they have reasons.

That is not the case.

Latchy

OutlawPete wrote: »

You're lucky to have a mother that seems to be very wise.

A lot of people would tell you that most of the criticism and begrudgery that they have received, that has affected them the deepest their lives, has come from within their own family.

That's a very common trait whitin lots of Irish familys and of course it doesn't just stretch to becoming rich and famous either no , ordinary Joe /Julie Soap can feel that criticism and begrudgery to .

OutlawPete

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Who's asking for evidence of Bonos cuntishness?

One guy did ask another poster why he didn't like Bono. Is that unreasonable? It's hardly asking for scientific evidence.

Apparently someone asked him for "Scientific evidence" actually.

irishdub14

Herb Powell wrote: »

Well, it isn't great at all. On the other hand, if you really wanna do something, then you'll do it, and not be a weak-minded sheep;)
As stovelid said (I hope it was him, I'll look like an eejit ) F*ck the begrudgers

In school, people actually dumb themselves down so they dont look like their good at something...!! I hate it, and when someones happy with a result, everyone thinks their bragging...! Only in Ireland!!!

stovelid

mickoneill30 wrote: »

One guy did ask another poster why he didn't like Bono. Is that unreasonable?

It's not necessary. That kind of dislike is a cumulative feeling borne of years of seeing the guy around town, reading his interviews; growing up with him in the media and listening to his music.

If I said he was criminal or paedo, proof would be required.

The very definition of what I'm saying about the fallacy of begrudgery is that one is expected to empirically justify their dislike because it's a stellar Irish figure that we're talking about.

And I actually like a lot of U2, albeit I don't like most of his lyrics and am more into the tunes.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Maison Glamorous Sewer wrote: »

Do you have any real reasons for hating bono or are you just following the sheep who hate him for no reason other than "everyone else hates him". What a crock of shít...

Mick Jagger doesnt attempt to save the world, does he?

Bono, a person who decided to re-locate U2s base the the netherlands for tax reasons, more or less thinks Africa would disappear off the face of the earth if it wasn't for him.

Given his vast wealth, surely he could just donate some of his money in true philantropic fashion, as opposed to continually engaging in the sheer hypocricy of whining on about all the worlds poverty and continuing to live a upper class lifestyle, dining with the world's elite. **** off Paul Hewson

stovelid

OutlawPete wrote: »

You are making out that people have a problem with you not liking Bono and other peole not liking someone when they have reasons.

I got the feeling from these posts that it wasn't acceptable to just not like some public figures when it is - to me at least.

But fair enough.

I've said cunt enough for today as well, to be honest.

Maison Glamorous Sewer wrote: »

Do you have any real reasons for hating bono or are you just following the sheep who hate him for no reason other than "everyone else hates him". What a crock of shít...

OutlawPete wrote: »

If I do then you will just get posts saying:

"He's a wanker, always was .. I knew someone who knew him" blah blah.

What's the point?

You can't argue with people that just claim someone is a c*nt.

I don't mind someone like Degsy hating Gerry Ryan for instance as he can back it up.

He can tell you Gerry's a narcissistic bollox for A, B, C, D, E, F and f**king G and that's fine - I agree with him.

What I am saying is that there are people that if there name is brought up in public (or a public forum) you will a load of "He's a cnut" "He's just a scumbag" etc.

As I said, some people deserve the title others don't.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

One guy did ask another poster why he didn't like Bono. Is that unreasonable? .