Renault have there heads Screwed on, and so ahead of everyone else (in my opinion)

Matt Simis

cvisser wrote: »

The best Car ad i've ever seen, Renault really get the message across, History of the car, global warming, C02, safety, and the Future of the Electric car, Well done Renault. With everything now in place There Gonna be a force in the Car Industry.

View ad: Fantastiqueeeeeeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MmnV9tAFxE

Wow, I thought it was preachy and pious, from a company that up to this point has made no effect to appeal to me (my demographic) on the technology front.

This ad is a major turn off for me for the marque. The (rubbish) 3D rendering of the electric car, missing all textures but presented as finished product was just confusing.

slimjimmc

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The ad, while a little inspiring, is annoying. The guy ends up just shouting half way through to get the message, rather than using music, or subtle changes in his voice. On the subject of EV's, here's what I wrote in a recent thread, and why it's such a screw-up of an idea to release anything at the moment, everyone's raving about EV's being the way of the future, and clearly, they're not.

Every change has its advocates, it's problems and it's opponents.
The CEO of a certain telegraph company once said that Marconi's wireless telegraphy would never replace the cable telegraph. People once said the motor car would never replace horse power, too expensive, too dangerous, nowhere to refuel, etc, etc. Thankfully for us, the opponents lost.

The electric car is the future, there is no doubt about it. Of course there will be problems such as developing a complete recharging infrastructure, battery duration, etc but all these will be overcome over time. Petrol stations and mechanics weren't exactly plentyful until the car gained widespread acceptance, the same will be said of EVs. For now, EVs will be targeted at the city user where journeys are short and where the higher population density makes it most economic to invest in facilities. As the market grows, competition and investment will increase.

Big Nasty

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The EV is actually being made in conjunction with Nissan. How much Japanese electrics have you in your home? Dont knock it until you've tried it I say.

If Nissan have serious input I would certainly have more faith, although I still stand by my previous comment:

I'm not saying they're a bad car, I'm saying electrics isn't one of Renault's strong points. Therefore I believe they should try get what they have right before they start trying to develop electric cars.

Shane732

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Exactly. What do you base your comments on? It seems to be based on your opinion of Renault (not even knowing that it will be built mostly ny Nissan) and your opinion isnt something I or anyone else on here seems to value much based on your previous comments in this thread.

Wait until you experience the car before you start spouting sh1te.

Mostly built by Nissan? Apologies I wasn't aware of this. I thought that Nissan and Renault were working in conjunction on a lithium ion battery system that would be used in Renault's and Nissan's going forward.

I thought that the lithium ion battery system would be the only part of the cars the two companies would be working on together. I was of the opinion that Renault would use the ion system in their vehicles and Nissan would use the system in their vehicles, not that the companies were building a car under a joint venture. I could be wrong though.

If I am correct then the Renault's will presumably have similar reliability to other Renault's - and what's the reliability of Renault's currently like?

The Nissan Leaf looks like a reasonable car....

I won't be test driving the that Renault.

unkel

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Thank you! All the tree hugging hippies seem to forget this one.

And when they're starting to understand that one, tell them the leccy will have to come mainly from nuclear for the foreseeable and watch them turn truely green

Big Nasty

bostoncommon wrote: »

Renault must be getting better Dr. Bill gave €7500 for a 97 megene in Liffey Valley during the week? Beat Joe Mallons by €2500! Work that one out? Too be fair the 97 was always a good car...:D

Que?

KamiKazi

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Zero emissions electric car? But where does the electricity used to charge it come from :pac:

Did noone else see Boris Johnson on Top Gear??

JC: "But where does the electricity come from Boris?"
BJ: "From the plug Jeremy"

T-Maxx

Like yeah like my ex girlfriend's brother's friend's mom's cousin's boss's wife had a Renault like whatever model like and the electrics kept on crapping out so like yeah all Renaults are like garbage like.:rolleyes:

sk8board

I heard Dr bill on Marian Finucane this AM say that the Gormley has an order for 1000 of the renault/nissan fully electic cars this year.

She checked him on it; is it actually 1000, and FULLY electric, not hybrid; he confirmed it absolutely was both

will believe it when I see it; but if hes delivering them, how come I've never seen this vehicle?

edit: p.s I have a 10yo renault form new, and it never gave me a days trouble.

KamiKazi

T-Maxx wrote: »

Like yeah like my ex girlfriend's brother's friend's mom's cousin's boss's wife had a Renault like whatever model like and the electrics kept on crapping out so like yeah all Renaults are like garbage like.:rolleyes:

A wild Renault owner wanders in. Casts level 10 sarcasm.

It fails.

colm_mcm

sk8board wrote: »

I heard Dr bill on Marian Finucane this AM say that the Gormley has an order for 1000 of the renault/nissan fully electic cars this year.

They ordered them regardless of price? have they actually got pricing on them?

Shane732

bostoncommon wrote: »

Renault must be getting better Dr. Bill gave €7500 for a 97 megene in Liffey Valley during the week? Beat Joe Mallons by €2500! Work that one out? Too be fair the 97 was always a good car...:D

Seriously? That's amazing.....

Where did you hear this?

You can buy a 97 Megane for €750 - might pick one up and see how much Bill will give me for it!

colm_mcm

bostoncommon wrote: »

Renault must be getting better Dr. Bill gave €7500 for a 97 megene in Liffey Valley during the week? Beat Joe Mallons by €2500! Work that one out? Too be fair the 97 was always a good car...:D

was that on top of the discounts and scrappage, or was it just very tidy?

Shane732

sk8board wrote: »

I heard Dr bill on Marian Finucane this AM say that the Gormley has an order for 1000 of the renault/nissan fully electic cars this year.

She checked him on it; is it actually 1000, and FULLY electric, not hybrid; he confirmed it absolutely was both

will believe it when I see it; but if hes delivering them, how come I've never seen this vehicle?

edit: p.s I have a 10yo renault form new, and it never gave me a days trouble.

Well the Nissan Leaf is in existence so it is possible that we'll have 1,000 of them in the country by the end of the year. Its due to be released in the US in the summer. I've heard rumors that the price tag will be around €30,000. Of course this depends on the VRT treatment of the car.

The main problem is that the range is only about 100mls. You can supposedly charge them to roughly 80% in 30 mins. A full charge takes over 8 hrs (i.e. charge over night). Performance is also meant to be pretty bad ...

Owen

It's interesting that the people defending Renault's electrics and residual values on this thread have owned one, or maybe two, or know a family member or two that have them.

Then you see the flip side of the coin, where people like Junkyard and I have actually traded them in and tried to sell them, and had our hearts broken, and our pockets emptied, based on dozens of Renaults not just the odd one or two.

Seriously though, despite what anyone has said on this thread, electric cars are not the way of the future. Most journo's even accept that. Hydrogen is the way forward, we just need to develop the tech a bit more for refuelling and production. This EV bullsh*t is to keep the EU and the hippies happy.

unkel

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Hydrogen is the way forward, we just need to develop the tech a bit more for refuelling and production.

Only a tiny bit more.

Most internal combustion engines that we already have right now can run fine on hydrogen with only minor adjustments.

Hydrogen fuel costs is currently more than petrol, but only a bit more. And not for long with fossil fuel prices price trend of only upwards mid to long term (5-20 years)

Distribution network for hydrogen is non-existent, but this is the easiest of the issues.

If a major economy like the US would apply petrol excise on a similar level as average EU on petrol while keeping hydrogen excise free, the mass changeover from petrol to hydrogen would happen within 10 years.

Fuel cells to replace internal combustion engines is the next step, maybe 2025-2050

peasant

The good, old internal combustion engine is a total waste of energy

Modern gasoline engines have an average efficiency of about 20% to 30% when used to power a car. In other words, of the total heat energy of gasoline, 70 to 80% is ejected (as heat from the exhaust) as mechanical sound energy or consumed by the motor (friction, air turbulence, heat through the cylinder walls or cylinder head, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and electrical generator), and only about 25% of energy moves the vehicle

Wasting more energy to produce Hydrogen (which is even less efficient than petrol) isn't going to improve things either.

Owen

I agree that Hydrogen isn't really efficient, but the public doesn't give a damn about efficiency, and neither does the global economy. We have 2 choices.

Buy electric cars which will be efficient, and run for 100 miles, stretching to maybe 170 when battery tech improves, and take all the oil companies out of the loop. We end up with pissed off consumers who have to take the bus/train/plane anywhere out of the way, or having to pay a hotel to charge their car so they can make the return journey home, and we end up with a real mess of an economic system because shell/exxon/texaco and co can't actually make a product anymore.

Or we go Hydrogen. We get vehicles which are more or less as efficient as now, but with less of an environmental impact. We get vehicles which can travel realistic distances, relatively happy consumers, and the oil companies can switch to manufacturing Hydrogen, and the economy keeps moving.

Guy:Incognito

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Eh, no! Anyone I know who has ever had a Renault has had electrical problems with them. .

I havnt. That's Between me and 6 family members and at least 2 guys I work with ( 15 cars at a rough count. Only one that actually died was a Laguna 1 that broke a well overdue timeing belt ).

unkel wrote: »

Hydrogen fuel costs is currently more than petrol, but only a bit more. And not for long with fossil fuel prices price trend of only upwards mid to long term (5-20 years)

Did the Honda one that James may did the test not only have a range of 250-300 miles though? IT'll need to at least match fossil fuel if it's around the same price per litre.



The main problem with electric cars is charge time. If it's going to take 16 hours to charge a car it's a non runner. End of. It has to get down to somewhere around what it takes to fuel a car now or everyone other than peoplke who take their cars 2 miles to the shop and back each day just wont be interested.No amount of environmentally sound bull will change that. People are only interested in being enviromentally friendly if it fits in with their lifestyles (generally speaking. Theres will of course be a hard core tree hugging element)

bongi69

What I can see happening in a hypothetical transitional phase between fossil fuels and alternatives, is your average 2 car family owning one of each.

The little electric for nipping down to the shops, going to work, school run etc (provided you can provide an electric with similar performance to a small runabout, the likes of a 1.0 corsa, fiesta etc.). And then you'd have the polar bear killer for longer/motorway journeys.

Then again, this solution would not work worldwide. People in developing countries tend to only have one car per household, if even, and cars have a longer shelf life. Having grown up in South Africa, I can safely say that you do see many 20 years or older cars on the roads. People tend to repair them if they are knackered, rather than sending them to the breakers. Hence why, for example a 2nd hand car could be 3 times the price there than it is here. I was there recently and saw a 98 Polo for the equivalent of €4500

Rev. BlueJeans

Renault zero emissions?

My uncle and brothers lagunas, one clio, and my mother's megane are doing their best.

As I write, three out of four have calved. A broken down piece of plasticised crap aint burnin' no carbon.

galwaytt

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Eh, no! Anyone I know who has ever had a Renault has had electrical problems with them. I'm not saying they're a bad car, I'm saying electrics isn't one of Renault's strong points. Therefore I believe they should try get what they have right before they start trying to develop electric cars.

A few things there:
1. You don't know me, and I've had 3. I've two electrical problems over 3 cars: coils (same as VAG, Opel and every other coilpack-induced rubbish), and driver's side window. (The cure was unplugging the lead in the door jamb, cleaing it, and spraying with WD40).
2. 'not a bad car' ?...seems to me that's exactly what you're saying, but by the same yardstick, half the cars on the market today are also 'bad', and usually for similar reasons.
3. if car manufacturers waited to 100% de-bug their cars before sale..........the showroom and forecourts of the world would be empty. That car hasn't been built by anyone yet.

junkyard wrote: »

The only thing clever about Renault is their advertising. I have a Clio in at the moment that drains it's battery over night, the hazard lights come on when they feel like it oh and the right indicators come on when you put up the electric window on the drivers door. I don't know wheather to get a priest to exorcise it or an auto electrician.

Well I have an MX-5 that does the same thing(drain), and I'm quite sure Renault had nothing to do with it. As for the door issue, see my comment, above..........like, was that car in a recent, and widely-reported, flood in your area....?

professore

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Zero emissions electric car? But where does the electricity used to charge it come from :pac:

People always trot out this nonsense. Whilst true, it's a step in the right direction. It's much easier to convert power stations to zero emissions than a fleet of vehicles. It's a bit like the argument "why grit the roads? It could snow again tomorrow"

professore

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I agree that Hydrogen isn't really efficient, but the public doesn't give a damn about efficiency, and neither does the global economy. We have 2 choices.

Buy electric cars which will be efficient, and run for 100 miles, stretching to maybe 170 when battery tech improves, and take all the oil companies out of the loop. We end up with pissed off consumers who have to take the bus/train/plane anywhere out of the way, or having to pay a hotel to charge their car so they can make the return journey home, and we end up with a real mess of an economic system because shell/exxon/texaco and co can't actually make a product anymore.

Or we go Hydrogen. We get vehicles which are more or less as efficient as now, but with less of an environmental impact. We get vehicles which can travel realistic distances, relatively happy consumers, and the oil companies can switch to manufacturing Hydrogen, and the economy keeps moving.

Well said Buff.

galwaytt

...the snag with that Honda FCX, which I love btw, is that it cost $1,000,000 each, so, tbh, you can make any technology 'work' at that price level.

Making it work at $10,000, now that's something else entirely.

I love my cars as much as the next guy, but I'll buy the right new technology, at the right time - and the right price. I personally don't give a toss what motive power it has. Electric motors is where it's going to be, that's almost a dead cert, but the choices for powering them is the thing. Hydrogen power requires collossal power to extract it from the planet, to harvest it.........so where does that power come from ?

Ultimately, likely it or not, nuclear is going to look more and more like the answer..........fusion would be preferable, but it's not there yet, which leaves fission.......and I can imagine the palaver over that.

colm_mcm

I suppose it just opens the uncomfortable question of nuclear power further. surely a nuclear plant dedicated to producing hydrogen would have very little environmental impact apart from the inherint risk?

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote: »

I suppose it just opens the uncomfortable question of nuclear power further. surely a nuclear plant dedicated to producing hydrogen would have very little environmental impact apart from the inherint risk?

A nuclear power plant would probably take decades to build here by the time all the court cases and protesting from the tree huggers are done. It would probably be a non runner financially by that stage,

Rev. BlueJeans

Stekelly wrote: »

A nuclear power plant would probably take decades to build here by the time all the court cases and protesting from the tree huggers are done. It would probably be a non runner financially by that stage,

The French are working on fusion apparently, but that's a long way off.

For now, wind and hydro seem to be the front runners.

gpjordanf1

Hydrogen has nothing going for it and wont happen now or in the future.

Its too expensive

Its man made, requires fossil fuels to be made!!!

Its too dangerous to store and especially in a car!!

Theres no delivery network.

The vehicles are mental money.

These are just the obvious, its crazy to even entertain the idea, when electric is so far ahead and much more effiecent in every way.

There are electric cars in testing at the moment that have a range of 200-250 miles and have a quickcharge time of 10 minutes (80%) and a full charge of 3-4 hours.
And these are just in testing, by production they will have these figure improved.

Already I could certainly live with those figures! When you go and fill up your car, what do you do? For me I usually get some cash out, might grab a coffee, queue up and pay, you could sometimes be about 10 mins. Now were very close to mainstream acceptability! All it take is a few of these cars in the marketplace and some real life experiences and they will take off and burn all competitors.

Roll on the electric car, cant wait, because the electric car has turned the final corner and is on the home straight and hydrogen hasn't even left the blocks! (What a joke!)

PS
Ford built the fastest hydrogen vehicle with a top speed of around 200mph, but they have abandoned Hydrogen in favour of electric. But what would one of the largest car manufacturers in the world know?

Owen

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Hydrogen has nothing going for it and wont happen now or in the future.

It's already in place in California. There are Hydrogen 7 series driving around.

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Its too expensive

At the moment only.

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Its man made, requires fossil fuels to be made!!!

No it doesn't. It requires a shed load of water, and a catalyst like Aluminum to allow the molecules to split to oxygen and hydrogen. There was a guy in the 60's who built a water carburettor in his shed. There are childrens toys you can buy now which allow you to make hydrogen and run a car on it.

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Its too dangerous to store and especially in a car!!

So is petrol

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Theres no delivery network.

There's none for electricity either as it charging points/stations on the road. At one point, there was no delivery network for Petrol - you had to buy it in the local pharmacy. It just needed to become popular for the network to be established. The same is true whether or not the next fuel is electricity, or whether it's Hydrogen. If it is Hydrogen, there's already an established network in place. Fuel Depots, Petrol Stations, Knowledgable Staff - they all just need to be converted. Not the toughest thing in the world.

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

The vehicles are mental money.

So are the very good electric cars! It's the sh*tty ones which are cheap.

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

These are just the obvious, its crazy to even entertain the idea, when electric is so far ahead and much more effiecent in every way.

The electric car is efficient. The grid needed to charge it is not. Plus, if we do all flip flop to an electric motor in the morning, suddenly we fill every landfill with petrol and diesel cars, and millions of people in the oil processing industry, petrol stations, etc are out of work.

Petrol engines have the potential to be converted to a hydrogen system, which will save the environmental disaster that scrapping all our cars, and building nuclear stations to charge all the electric cars will bring.