you DO believe in God.

missusblagh

How many people are REALLY atheist?

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

A lot of people who genuinely have abandoned religious belief find themselves at the end of life afraid of death, and quickly convert.

Some in their conscious mind think 'God is not real' , but subconsciously, some beliefs remain. Whether it's a result of their upbringing, or a human connection to something spiritual I don't know.

How many atheists are really left?

iUseVi

missusblagh wrote: »

How many people are REALLY atheist?

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

A lot of people who genuinely have abandoned religious belief find themselves at the end of life afraid of death, and quickly convert.

Some in their conscious mind think 'God is not real' , but subconsciously, some beliefs remain. Whether it's a result of their upbringing, or a human connection to something spiritual I don't know.

How many atheists are really left?

And you know this how? The only mind you have any experience of is yours.

EDIT: obvious troll attempt I know, but meh

kev9100

No, I dont believe in God.

Agonist

missusblagh wrote: »

How many people are REALLY atheist?

0.0075% of people are believers, the rest are atheist*



*figures based on a survey of one person

missusblagh

iUseVi wrote: »

And you know this how? The only mind you have any experience of is yours.

Well I can also get experience of other people's minds by the gift of conversation .... !

krudler

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

I dont, havent said a prayer to imaginary man in the sky since my confirmation, I may as well be paying to the pair of socks on the floor as for all the good it would do

A lot of people who genuinely have abandoned religious belief find themselves at the end of life afraid of death, and quickly convert.

Know many athiests that converted on their death beds do we? I cant wait to see whats on the other side, if anything, which there probably isnt, but its freeing knowing I dont have to appease an imaginary being to barter my way into his cloudy funhouse at the end of my life

try hard troll needs to try harder

liamw

Obvious troll

missusblagh

Ok, I see a lot of these posts are quite mocking and condescending.

I notice that's a trait of atheist arguments and it's rather annoying when you're bringing up a debate, though understandable in some situations- religion has done a lot of fuzzed up stuff, and a lot of the hardcore religious are fairly stupid.

I'd like to point out, I'm neither hardcore religious nor stupid.
In fact I don't have any real belief system, so my argument is quite objective.

I'm just quite against those who are 'atheist' because it's in style. And also those who mock people who do have beliefs, as it's very much their right. The majority of them don't fly out with rediculous arguments.

Some form of belief is a consistent factor of EVERY group/race/tribe of people in existence today, and probably ever.

Some people have thought about it deeply, studied it, researched it, and found they are incapable of believing in anything spiritual, and believe in the here and now. Fair enough.

For the rest of you - maybe formed your opinion in about a week, decided to stick with it cos it's 'in'?
Be honest with yourself.
Belief is bred into you, it's going to take a lot more to purge it.

missusblagh

Agonist wrote: »

0.0075% of people are believers, the rest are atheist*



*figures based on a survey of one person

Agonist - If this were facebook, I would like it.

Ickle Magoo

What a load of ignorant crap.

I was never led to believe that there is a God and nor have I ever thought there was one - never, not for one single day. This "Meh, you're just an atheist because it's fashionable" nonsense is just a way of trying to devalue people who have never been theists and those that have thought long and hard about religion.

If you are not hardcore religious why would it bother you what anyone thinks and why, especially the swelling ranks of atheists? :rolleyes:

biko

When you can verbalise why you don't believe in Odin you'll understand why I don't believe in Jahwe, or Odin for that matter.

iUseVi

missusblagh wrote: »

Some people have thought about it deeply, studied it, researched it, and found they are incapable of believing in anything spiritual, and believe in the here and now. Fair enough.

What do you expect from this forum? I do not believe in god(s) and do not have even any niggling doubts about it. Most people here are going to say the same thing.

Its still easier to be religious in our culture than not, I think the "because it's in vogue" argument doesn't hold up.

Some in their conscious mind think 'God is not real' , but subconsciously, some beliefs remain.

How could you possibly know what is in people's subconscious from conversation? That's the most ridiculous thing I've read all week, and there are a few contenders. That's why I marked you as a troll straight out.

Wacker

missusblagh wrote: »

Some form of belief is a consistent factor of EVERY group/race/tribe of people in existence today, and probably ever.

Indeed, this is probably true. Virtually all of these beliefs contradict the others though. So isn't it obvious that this means that humanity is predisposed towards religious beliefs, independent of whether there is any truth behind them?

Sam Vimes

Do you really not believe in Santa or do you secretly send off a letter every year and hope?

Turtwig

missusblagh wrote: »

.

Ok, I see a lot of these posts are quite mocking and condescending.

That is generally what happens when you post ill thought out posts. Not by any means an atheist/agnostic exclusive.

I notice that's a trait of atheist arguments and it's rather annoying when you're bringing up a debate

If you post here long enough you'll realise that the majority of the posters here are really rather civilised. (Watch out for rohatch!)

I'd like to point out, I'm neither hardcore religious nor stupid.

No one said you were stupid. Please don't think negatively of yourself.

In fact I don't have any real belief system, so my argument is quite objective

You're initial post wasn't really objective. It was speaking more from some kind of personal experience. Atheists/agnostics, more often than not, tend to be rationalists and don't exactly weigh personal experience that heavily.

I'm just quite against those who are 'atheist' because it's in style. And also those who mock people who do have beliefs, as it's very much their right. The majority of them don't fly out with rediculous arguments.

People are atheists for a multitude of reasons. As for mocking beliefs, do you hestitate to mock someone's arguments in defence of FF or Man U? Why does religion get a privileged protection?

Some form of belief is a consistent factor of EVERY group/race/tribe of people in existence today, and probably ever.

Indeed, but such beliefs while useful for our survival in the past are now hazardous, imo.

Some people have thought about it deeply, studied it, researched it, and found they are incapable of believing in anything spiritual, and believe in the here and now. Fair enough.
For the rest of you - maybe formed your opinion in about a week, decided to stick with it cos it's 'in'?
Be honest with yourself.
Belief is bred into you, it's going to take a lot more to purge it

I'm confused do you want to purge your own belief, or do you think there are posters here who secretly believe but are under a delusion (or something) that they don't?

GLaDOS

I believe, I believe in god

The Mad Hatter

Well, missus, you got me. I know, I know, I put on a facade of atheism because it's fashionable, and I like to fit in with my atheist friend. But really I do believe in God. Either the silly concrete concept of God who made us in his image and lives outside the Universe, or the very-slightly-less-silly concept of God who is a fluffy, ill-defined entity existing somewhere just outside reality. I even say a prayer at night time, just to remind God that I still believe he's looking after us even when it's patently obvious we're alone.

Though every morning, just to keep myself cool, I eat a baby.

Turtwig

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

What a load of ignorant crap.

I was never led to believe that there is a God and nor have I ever thought there was one - never, not for one single day. This "Meh, you're just an atheist because it's fashionable" nonsense is just a way of trying to devalue people who have never been theists and those that have thought long and hard about religion.

If you are not hardcore religious why would it bother you what anyone thinks and why, especially the swelling ranks of atheists? :rolleyes:

I envy you.:( Born atheist/agnostic and growing up with no beliefs sounds awesome. Were you any bit spiritual or superstitious?
Also, if I may ask, what kind of reaction did you get from people in the general public? If any.

fatmammycat

Shorter troll.

'Hi, I'm going to tell everyone what I think you weally weally weally totally think and you try refute it, okay? Okay? Okay? No cheating!"

stevejazzx

Dades, Robin - It might perhaps be advisable to have a 'I am over 18 years old checkbox' for new posters?:)

5uspect

missusblagh wrote: »

How many people are REALLY atheist?

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

A lot of people who genuinely have abandoned religious belief find themselves at the end of life afraid of death, and quickly convert.

Some in their conscious mind think 'God is not real' , but subconsciously, some beliefs remain. Whether it's a result of their upbringing, or a human connection to something spiritual I don't know.

How many atheists are really left?

missusblagh wrote: »

Ok, I see a lot of these posts are quite mocking and condescending.

Well, you're off to a great start.

GLaDOS

stevejazzx wrote: »

Dades, Robin - It might perhaps be advisable to have a 'I am over 18 years old checkbox' for new posters?:)

Bit harsh on all the regular under 18 posters...

stevejazzx

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Bit harsh on all the regular under 18 posters...

Shouldn't you be in bed by now?:)

Bigdeadlydave

Troll thread I know but it reminds me of a story my grandfather told me about his fathers time in the trenches. He said that many of the english soldiers he fought with were atheist but within a week of being in the Somme they became devout Christians..... Maybe it is some part of the human mind to look for a higher being in great times of stress/danger?

Arcus Arrow

missusblagh wrote: »

How many people are REALLY atheist?

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

A lot of people who genuinely have abandoned religious belief find themselves at the end of life afraid of death, and quickly convert.

Some in their conscious mind think 'God is not real' , but subconsciously, some beliefs remain. Whether it's a result of their upbringing, or a human connection to something spiritual I don't know.

How many atheists are really left?

Which god who?

It's true that people who do not believe in a god are not necessarily free of the mental habits that typify religious believers. When a person says they do not believe in a god it does not mean they don't act in a way consistent with believing in a greater power than themselves. That greater power could be, for example, Barak Obama or any world class sports star.

Many people including those who identify themselves as atheists engage in what I'd call Jesusism.

To conciously move away from a belief system relates to the belief system one is moving away from and that belief system defines what actions are taken or what beliefs are or are not held.

eblistic

missusblagh wrote: »

I'm just quite against those who are 'atheist' because it's in style.

Atheism has been around quite a while I'd imagine... as fads go.

Ciaran500

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

Troll thread I know but it reminds me of a story my grandfather told me about his fathers time in the trenches. He said that many of the english soldiers he fought with were atheist but within a week of being in the Somme they became devout Christians..... Maybe it is some part of the human mind to look for a higher being in great times of stress/danger?

Very well known adage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes

So to counter that this was setup http://www.maaf.info/expaif.html

iUseVi

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Which god who?

It's true that people who do not believe in a god are not necessarily free of the mental habits that typify religious believers. When a person says they do not believe in a god it does not mean they don't act in a way consistent with believing in a greater power than themselves. That greater power could be, for example, Barak Obama or any world class sports star.

Many people including those who identify themselves as atheists engage in what I'd call Jesusism.

To conciously move away from a belief system relates to the belief system one is moving away from and that belief system defines what actions are taken or what beliefs are or are not held.

It is true that where traditional religions have declined, other ones have sprung up to take their place. Paganism, wicca etc. Not sure if they are an improvement or not. Getting rid of hell is a good start, but yeah thats another discussion.

GLaDOS

stevejazzx wrote: »

Shouldn't you be in bed by now?:)

I'm 19 I'll have you know

Arcus Arrow

missusblagh wrote: »

How many people are REALLY atheist?

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

A lot of people who genuinely have abandoned religious belief find themselves at the end of life afraid of death, and quickly convert.

Some in their conscious mind think 'God is not real' , but subconsciously, some beliefs remain. Whether it's a result of their upbringing, or a human connection to something spiritual I don't know.

How many atheists are really left?

Which god who where when.....

It's true that people who do not believe in a god are not necessarily free of the mental habits that typify religious believers. When a person says they do not believe in a god it does mean they don't act in a way consistent with believing in a greater power than themselves and having figure heads that they have “faith” in. For example: Barak Obama or Nelson Mandela (why is he so famous?)

It’s what I’d call Jesusism.

To reject a set of beliefs involves thinking about them which often results in dictating the actions, relative to those beliefs, that a person engages in. Lots of atheist organisations become shadows of religious ones in their structure but with a different canon and an alternative orthodoxy. The desire not to be bound by a god does not result in being devoid of any mental patterns that derive from believing there is. It could hardly be any other way considering religion is soaked into the mind of every child from birth and religion dominates everything from language to anything you care to mention. It's seeped into every nook and cranny. Jaysus lets hope to god someday we'll get over it.....oops ****!

missusblagh

Everyone - you're really taking this the wrong way, a lot of you.
I can understand how it might flare up anger in genuine atheists.
So I will apologise to you - but it's not aimed at you.


Answer this question anyway :
Will you not agree that there are posers out there?

Turtwig

missusblagh wrote: »

Will you not agree that there are posers out there?

What a bizarre question. There's all sort of people out there if you look hard enough for them you'll find atheists who believe in self mutilation and astrology.

Petrovia

missusblagh wrote: »

Answer this question anyway :
Will you not agree that there are posers out there?

Where's the evidence?

Ickle Magoo

Malty_T wrote: »

I envy you.:( Born atheist/agnostic and growing up with no beliefs sounds awesome. Were you any bit spiritual or superstitious?

No, not at all, there are times when I'd dearly love to think my path was secure and someone up there is looking out for me - but I just....can't.

My parents tried to explain the whole global religion thing to me when I was 3 or 4 after seeing a nativity play and my Dad said I looked them like they had three heads the whole time & then kept drilling them on the finer details until they ran out of answers. I have never, ever been able to make sense of theism and I don't think I ever will.

Malty_T wrote: »

Also, if I may ask, what kind of reaction did you get from people in the general public? If any.

Reaction to being an atheist generally or a 5 year old declaring they don't believe in a god? I don't remember religion ever being an issue, the schools are secular, no-one discusses religion unless specifically asked, what religion - if any - is just a non-issue.

kev9100

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't remember religion ever being an issue, the schools are secular, no-one discusses religion unless specifically asked, what religion - if any - is just a non-issue.

I presume you didnt go to school in ireland, yeah?

Ickle Magoo

kev9100 wrote: »

I presume you didnt go to school in ireland, yeah?

That is not a tricolour on my avatar. :P

stevejazzx

missusblagh wrote: »

Answer this question anyway :
Will you not agree that there are posers out there?

I just checked and am happy to say that there are absolutely no 'posers' out there whatsoever. /thread?

fitz0

missusblagh wrote: »

Some form of belief is a consistent factor of EVERY group/race/tribe of people in existence today, and probably ever.

I'd like to direct you to the Piraha people of the Amazon. No belief system whatsoever. But they're obviously just posers aren't they?

missusblagh

Petrovia wrote: »

Where's the evidence?

I've met tons of people who brag that they're atheist, but when you get into a conversation with them about it, they don't know what they're talking about, it's clear they haven't thought it out properly.

They have the typical answers - religion causes war, no evidence, bible is bull and all that, but they fall down on the first challenge.

Has no one honestly met no one like this?
I suppose if you're atheist, and you meet someone who's atheist, you don't go into details of why you are?

Maybe I posted this in the wrong forum.

I'm just sick of ignorant narrow minded posers

SV

missusblagh wrote: »

I'm just sick of ignorant narrow minded posers

hahah

you might want to reevaluate the way you're coming across so..

Turtwig

missusblagh wrote: »

I've met tons of people who brag that they're atheist, but when you get into a conversation with them about it, they don't know what they're talking about, it's clear they haven't thought it out properly.

They have the typical answers - religion causes war, no evidence, bible is bull and all that, but they fall down on the first challenge.

Has no one honestly met no one like this?
I suppose if you're atheist, and you meet someone who's atheist, you don't go into details of why you are?

Maybe I posted this in the wrong forum.

I'm just sick of ignorant narrow minded posers

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. Often meet these kinds of atheists and love playing the devils advocate against them in the hope that it might wake them up a wee bit. Nothing pisses me off more than an atheist, who declares themselves a rationalist but is more ignorant to science than many mainstream theists.

kowloon

missusblagh wrote: »

How many people are REALLY atheist?

Let's be honest - it's in vogue. People think it's cool, intellectual or rebellious to be atheist. Deep down though, a lot of these people secretly say a prayer here or there.

I would have thought it was the other way round. How many people just scribble down catholic on the census form in the same way they tick the box for fluent Irish speaker? As for atheism being fashionable, there is a similar uptake in more extreme forms of christianity too. I see it as more of a polarisation than anything else. The state of the Catholic church in Ireland is only accelerating this.

Petrovia

missusblagh wrote: »

I've met tons of people who brag that they're atheist, but when you get into a conversation with them about it, they don't know what they're talking about, it's clear they haven't thought it out properly.

They have the typical answers - religion causes war, no evidence, bible is bull and all that, but they fall down on the first challenge.

Has no one honestly met no one like this?
I suppose if you're atheist, and you meet someone who's atheist, you don't go into details of why you are?

Maybe I posted this in the wrong forum.

I'm just sick of ignorant narrow minded posers

You seem to misunderstand what being an atheist means. It does not mean that you have to have some sort of deep, philosophical underpinning of your world view. Being an atheist simply means that you have a lack of belief in god/s, for whatever reason! You don't have to know what you're talking about in any way whatsoever. You just have to lack a belief in god/s.

Or do people who don't collect stamps (a-stamp collectors, if you will) have to know the ins and outs about stamp collecting in order to be a 'valid' a-stamp collector?

Arcus Arrow

iUseVi wrote: »

It is true that where traditional religions have declined, other ones have sprung up to take their place. Paganism, wicca etc. Not sure if they are an improvement or not. Getting rid of hell is a good start, but yeah thats another discussion.

Alternative religions are just people who don't want to believe in one religion being attracted to another because it's not quite like the one they left.

I was referring specifically to people who describe themselves as atheists and atheist organisations. The imprint of Jesusism is looking for anyone else, even though they are earthbound, as being the solution to ones problems or as being more or less perfect like the two examples I gave: Obama or Nelson Mandela. Having heroes is I'd think a derivative of having a jesus figure in the sense it's someone to look up to who can't be emulated but only admired. To be truly of the belief that there in no god in any way shape or form would mean people acting and thinking that way but they do not.
The OP, clumsy as it is, is also right to say many people are calling themselves atheist (which does not mean they are not) because it's in vogue.

Ickle Magoo

missusblagh wrote: »

I've met tons of people who brag that they're atheist, but when you get into a conversation with them about it, they don't know what the.....

I'm just sick of ignorant narrow minded posers

You could substitute atheist with pretty much anything else and the same sentence and sentiment would stand.

Are you suggesting that people can only stop believing in a god if they have good reason? There is no per-requisite that you must be able to quote every logical fallacy or argue every biblical contradiction in order to validate an atheist stance - other than by choice on fora like this one, obviously. Just not having a belief in a God is all it takes to hold the title of atheist in the real world.

missusblagh

Malty_T wrote: »

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. Often meet these kinds of atheists and love playing the devils advocate against them in the hope that it might wake them up a wee bit. Nothing pisses me off more than an atheist, who declares themselves a rationalist but is more ignorant to science than many mainstream theists.

This is what I mean,
I don't understand how I was coming off in any other way?

Valmont

missusblagh wrote: »

They have the typical answers - religion causes war, no evidence, bible is bull and all that

Goodness, what more do you want? Ironically, I think you are the one who hasn't thought any of this through. All I see is someone very much afraid of reason and rationality and a bit too worried about what is cool and unique. Atheists don't care about vogues or if your friends bought their atheists t-shirts in BT2 or oxfam, we are simply proponents of reason. That much is lost on you, obviously.

EDIT: Die thread die! *stab*

Ickle Magoo

missusblagh wrote: »

This is what I mean,
I don't understand how I was coming off in any other way?

Yeah, with a thread title declaring to a forum of atheists "you DO believe in God", it's difficult to fathom why anyone would consider your points crass generalisations pulled from your proverbial hat...

Errrrr..... :P

eblistic

missusblagh wrote: »

they don't know what they're talking about, it's clear they haven't thought it out properly.

This thread should be let fizzle out but anyway...

I'm sure there are varying degrees to which different people who accept the tag atheist or agnostic ponder the potential veracity of theistic theories, but why should they be obliged to do so at all? The theories can't be proven or disproven so why waste their time? (I actually think it's worthwhile understanding why humans believe this stuff but that's different).

kev9100

missusblagh wrote: »

but when you get into a conversation with them about it, they don't know what they're talking about, it's clear they haven't thought it out properly.

I think you have summed up your own argument quite aptly with that sentence.